PDA

View Full Version : Guard Light Infantry Company



Ryan814
29-01-2011, 02:33
So I've decided to start a new project.... a far reaching one at that somewhat based on Jind_Singhs Ultramarine thread. I plan to start a Cadian Light Infantry Company from start to finish, Infantry Heavy with some assorted vehicle support ( Sentinels etc and possibly the odd flame tank). So to start with I'm putting it out to all of you for suggestions on how this could work, any good sources of fluff to check up on first, Cadian organization at the company level etc. Just to clarify this will include a largely foot slogging army of mainly infantry.

M4V3R!CK
29-01-2011, 02:53
So I've decided to start a new project.... a far reaching one at that somewhat based on Jind_Singhs Ultramarine thread. I plan to start a Cadian Light Infantry Company from start to finish, Infantry Heavy with some assorted vehicle support ( Sentinels etc and possibly the odd flame tank). So to start with I'm putting it out to all of you for suggestions on how this could work, any good sources of fluff to check up on first, Cadian organization at the company level etc. Just to clarify this will include a largely foot slogging army of mainly infantry.

fluff wise? not much I don't think, except maybe, maybe Elysians. And the Ghosts... I dunno I see most guard armies aiming for big beefy Regiment styles in Chimeras and Leman Russ Tanks

I'd say go watch platoon, and work from there.

And just as inspiration, here's what I'd try to shove into that list.

Straken

Ogryns (maybe) or Ratlings. Not much else thats overly good in Elites.

2 platoons, 2-4 vet squads.

at least 1 or 2 sentinel squads, and round that out with Valks and Vendetta's

Heavy Weapons teams, maybe a manticore for that extra "oomph" you might want.

*shrug* thats what I would do if I was gonna run light.

Charistoph
29-01-2011, 04:40
The hardest part about a light infantry army is how should you use your Heavy Support. Currently, Guard only have tanks and artillery in it. Since you want to go as light as you can, I would keep things simple, by only using Griffons, as their job is close fire support, and the design looks like a chimera hull anyway. This is one case where they should have have just sprung for an extra page an added an Artillery unit (not the vehicles, but the guys with guns and no treads) into the lexicon. This would fit great with that Platoon/American Vietnam experience that M4V3R!CK talked about.

Anti-tank should be fine with Heavy Weapon squads, Sentinels, and Devil Dogs as ground support or Vendettas in the air. Where you may hurt is anti-MC, so keep that in mind.

Blitz001
29-01-2011, 04:59
imo for a "light" infantry company heavy weapons seem to be well...too heavy...for your heavy weapons you should load out the fast attack choices with sentinels and let your infantry run around with what ever special weapon tickles your fancy.

For heavy support the griffons seem to be the best choice, and some ratling snipers would add to the whole stealthy light infantry thing.

jacktheinedible
29-01-2011, 05:36
I'd suggest looking at the TO&E of a real world light infantry company, as that can give you some inspiration on what to take. U.S. rangers perhaps.

I'd suggest 2-3 platoons of infantry, some heavy weapons squads, sentinals of the support and scout varieties, and maybe some hobbits or marbo.

That would make up the core of a light infantry infranty company, but theres always room for attachments to the unit, chimeras, hellhound variants, valks/vendettas would stick with the fast unit theme, but it makes sense for just about anything to be attached when needed.

Reflex
29-01-2011, 06:46
If you want to be compedative you would need blob squads with commissars. You will need vets with meltas which you can hide behind the blob squads. Marbo fo sho. I think you could work with the manticore/s. I mean infantry need arty support so manticores are your best bet. Other then that keep your squads cheap to maximize the amount pf bodies.

I suggest flamers for PLatoon command squad and meltas in normal sqauds. Orders orders orders!!! Infantry guard are fun and can win if you have enough bodies.

MOMUS
29-01-2011, 07:26
I always thought it would be a great idea to make a light infantry force. A few suggestions:

1. Forget competitive. Its best when theming an army to include the units YOU want, ignore people who say 'You MUST include valks or blob squads!'

2. No tanks. Simple really, i would load up on sentinels, salamanders and venators. If you dont want to go the FW route than a hellhound at a stretch.

3. Modeling your troops to make them look like they are carrying the gear they will need.

4. Snipers, marbo, ratlings, vets on foot, rough riders, heavy weapon teams, penal legion and maybe al-rahiem to turn your troops into outflankers could be fun.

Charistoph
29-01-2011, 07:30
imo for a "light" infantry company heavy weapons seem to be well...too heavy...for your heavy weapons you should load out the fast attack choices with sentinels and let your infantry run around with what ever special weapon tickles your fancy.

For regular squads, I agree. Keep the Heavy Weapons out of them. However, that doesn't mean your platoons can't have a squad or two dedicated to heavy fire. Even in the hell of Vietnam, squads still carried bazookas and light machine guns. While they aren't quite on the level of the Guard's Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters, the same concept is safe. The commanders of the units would have them set up for good fire lanes while they advanced into enemy territory.

Also, keep in mind the character of the Guard. It is not uncommon for Catachan Jungle Troopers to be supported by Cadian Heavy Armor. While this doesn't really mean anything for the direction that the OP wants to go, it is good to keep it in mind.

Polaria
29-01-2011, 08:24
Its funny how people equate IG with Armored Fist units almost across the board. Although the Armored Fist / Mech IG is most viable on table-top it is actually the least fluffy. Reading the codex itself will tell you in clear terms that vast majority of IG regiments have no chimeras or tanks at all. Even the codex entry on chimera itself tells that since they are relatively rare in IG and unknown in typical IG infantry sometimes even just a single chimera squad or two are attached to spearhead a regimental assault.

yabbadabba
29-01-2011, 08:30
There are plenty of examples, the best being the old rules for the Catachans and the Tanith First. Light Infantry in modern terms tend to be specialist and elite but will also be mounted as mobility is the key to any modern warfare.
I suggest you think about how you would expect this army to be deployed in terms of background - terrain, missions, circumstances etc. This will help you define your rough army structure.
Come back to us with some ideas on these areas and it will make the detail easier

Reflex
29-01-2011, 10:13
the statement of infantry guard being non compedative, is simply not true.

Tournaments have a time limit. Its really hard to move tons of models in this time limit. thats why its not a top tier tounrey army.

second is that a list like this:

Straken: 2x body guard, 4x melta guns: 215
PCS: 3x Flamers: 45
Blob squad: 4 squads, Commissar, 4x MG, 4x Power Weapon: 315
PCS: 3x Flamers: 45
Blob squad: 4 squads, Commissar, 4x MG, 4x Power Weapon: 315
PCS: 2x Flamers: 40
Blob squad: 4 squads, Commissar, 4x MG, 4x Power Weapon: 315
Vets: 3x MG: 100
Vets: 3x MG: 100
Vets: 3x MG: 100
Manticore: 160
: 1495

Is not as easy as it seems...

25 melta guns, 9 flamers, 172 corpses. Ive faced this list many times. Theres so many to kill, there are so many first rank fire second rank fire, AND THEY DONT RUN AWAY!

the key ways to beat guard infantry is to make them run. straken is annoying enough, but the commissars just make them plain painful. this was a compedative catachan army. the annoying thing with this, is that playing with eldar, I would use DA to bladestorm them, but i could never kill enough, with necrons... i wont go there. with guard, I got overwhelmed. you can only kill so many before they get close to you, melta gun and flame you.

infantry heavy lists are pretty hard.

nedius
29-01-2011, 11:18
Modern light infantry did/does use armoured transports, so there's not really much problem with that. A Light infantry army would be one designed to allow for rapid deployment, re-deployment and so on. It's about being able to move quickly, getting personel to where they are needed, not sitting back and relying on heavy weaponry to win the day.

You're not airborne, so now valks etc. But baseline chimeras wouldn't be out of character.

However, in terms of support, you're looking at special weapons to replace your heavy support - flamers and meltas most likely. Basically, if it can't move and shoot, leave it behind.

So... I'd be using infantry squads in chimeras with special weapons, special weapon squads... Sentinels and other ground based fast attack would work well. Rough Riders (if on bikes rather than horses) would not be out of character either.

You will have to make a choice, however. An all comer's list will be tricky to use. You'll not have enough weapons that are as versitle as some of the heavy support options. maybe go for the anti vehicle list, and rely on massed lasguns to deal with infantry lists?

carldooley
29-01-2011, 14:52
If you could special rule it, consider taking dual Masters of Ordnance as heavies. With the choice of re-rolling scatter or dropping 2 templates added as a special rule, they could prove a decisive light artillery solution. 2x30 might be cheap, but not when you can purchase camo cloaks for them, an officer to escort them, a vox-caster to reroll the officers orders, and a medic to keep them alive longer, they could be bulked up on points quickly and decisively.

Friedrich von Offenbach
29-01-2011, 19:34
Well to be honest all modern infantry are pretty much light infantry. Around the end of the 1800s fighting in formation was just silly when faced with machine guns so the tactics of all infantry became that of light in infantry. This essentially means that your basic Cadian infantry regiment is probably all ready a light infantry regiment, so unfortunately it is not really possible to have a light regiment being much different from a normal one.

juggalo4life84
29-01-2011, 19:47
you should probably include two or three infantry platoons, one mortar platoon (just take a few mortar squads), a company command squad. and thats about it. dont take any vehicles what so ever. maybe a platoon of missile launchers or other heavy weapons. but dont take weapons that look like they would not be easily carried like autocannons, lascannons. missile launchers and heavy bolters are probably going to be it as far as heavy weapons go.

Redscare
29-01-2011, 21:30
Well to be honest all modern infantry are pretty much light infantry. Around the end of the 1800s fighting in formation was just silly when faced with machine guns so the tactics of all infantry became that of light in infantry. This essentially means that your basic Cadian infantry regiment is probably all ready a light infantry regiment, so unfortunately it is not really possible to have a light regiment being much different from a normal one.

Yeah, I don't understand the distinction these people make either. The term "light infantry" probably disappeared around the 19th century where there was only a big distinction when armies still marched shoulder-shoulder and slug-fested each other until one side retreated. The light infantry back then were the skirmishers, pathfinders, scouts, and etc and denoted specialized training, strong independence and personal initiative. They were basically the elite of the army next to the actual grenadiers.

The Ghosts still wear armor, and they have heavy weapons and a helmet (despite what the book cover artists might think) just like any other Guard infantry regiment. I guess you could call them "stealth" infantry since the IG has no special forces outside of stormtroopers, but light infantry is just redundant. Almost all IG regiments are light infantry in terms of doctrine and equipment. If you still really want "light infantry", your best bet is probably the Catachans- you won't get lighter than a "flak" T-shirt and a bandanna coupled with the Rambo theme.

Heavy infantry exist a lot in sci-fi however to represent heavily equipped infantry, like Heinlein's Starship Troopers for example. In 40k these are essentially the carapace-armored regiments, or the grenadier regiments like those of Cadia, the Kasrkins. Light infantry is still a big no-no though.

yabbadabba
29-01-2011, 21:46
Up until the last amalgamation, some British regiments still had the title of "light Infantry" and to a lesser extent reflected a more specialised and strategic battlefield role. LI still exists today and technically such troops as airborne units are LI.

LI are not as restricted as depicted on here, while they definitely do not have heavy weapons, many of the IG weapons are man portable, or can be strapped to a beat of burden which is no less mobile. LI are often deployed via AVs and are supported by them as well. What it comes down to is what you want the army to look like, balanced with gaming effectiveness

Stormhammers
29-01-2011, 22:05
agreed on the missile launchers and heavy bolters. I started working on a "light infantry" army back when I first started. Decided to only take missile launchers being that it was the only model that looked to be mobile (look at the old metal cadians)

Charistoph
29-01-2011, 23:41
The definition of different types of classification of infantry change as their roles and equipment change. In days gone by, there were heavy infantry and light infantry, to use a Warhammer example, Greatswords and Halberdiers. Today, we have infantry, special operations, and mechanized infantry (and I'm sure those in the army and marine units can give a better breakdown, I'm just trying to generalize for space and time). In 40K, we see the return of heavily armored infantry that are just as easily mechanized as lighter armored infantry. So for these, we could say there are light infantry (Guard Platoons, Ork Boyz, Eldar Guardians, etc), medium infantry (Fire Warriors, Storm Troopers, Dire Avengers), heavy infantry (Sisters, Tactical Marines, Necron Warriors, etc), very heavy infantry (Terminators, 'Eavy Armor Nobs, etc), and special forces (Eldar Rangers, Tau Pathfinders, Marine Scouts, etc). That was by armor, like the more classical definition, but it could also go by what the squad's role is, such as how the Marines are broken up between Tactical and Devestator Marines.

So, back to the OP, how do you classify 'light infantry'.

tuebor
30-01-2011, 00:02
In the US Army these days the thing that separates light infantry from other infantry is the use of dedicated vehicles to get them around. A modern US light infantry unit may have a few large trucks (5 tons or 2.5 tons) to get them around, unlike mech infantry (which is generally the opposite) which runs around in AFVs.

ehlijen
30-01-2011, 03:17
I would not expect a cadian light infantry unit to have many (or any) chimeras. Mechanising whole units is an undertaking so resource and maintenace intensive that few nations can maintain it over a whole war in present day earth.

We're talking about a planet that has been near 100% fortified and militarised. All the tanks and fuel they've got will go into the mechanised and armoured units. The light infantry, I'd imagine, would be stuck walking or hitching a ride with whatever mechanised unit is headed the same way; but they wouldn't have much in the way of transport assets allocated to them.

Stormhammers
30-01-2011, 03:24
think Army Rangers or 10th Mountain Div. I see using camo cloaks and sniper rifles alot.

ehlijen
30-01-2011, 03:31
Actually, you should probably not think of anything US based when thinking of a cadian light infantry regiment. The US has enormous amounts of resources to throw into a comparatively small army for its population. The cadian system has limited resources to arm every single person that lives there with (supposedly). Simply providing the entire population with lasguns, carapace armour and uplifting primers is a major undertaking.

Stormhammers
30-01-2011, 03:34
from a logistics standpoint yes, but how about this light infatry regiment is not from cadia. Make some fluff, have fun with it. Make a recon themed force.

ehlijen
30-01-2011, 04:24
I only say Cadia because the OP specified that in the first post. He is of course free to ignore anything I or anyone else say in this thread.

Ryan814
02-02-2011, 12:54
Ok sorry I was away so long, work calls. To clarify, after my time in the army there are 2 kinds of infantry. Mechanized and Light, airborne is light with a more maroon hat. Light use vehicles too I know but typically not fighting vehicles. What I am making is an Infantry company with 3 ish Platoons on foot with heavy weapon and special weapons back up. I may provide some limited scout sentinel support or lighter things of that nature. I using the Cadian rather that the Catachan model sets because they look more like a professional army( and until my lottery numbers come up, no chance on my 1st choice of using Deathkorp of Kreig models). Basically looking to see if anyone can point me to some good sources of IG fluff specific to Infantry units outside the codex. Also any suggestion on good unit set ups.