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View Full Version : Codexes of the future...



jack da greenskin
30-01-2011, 18:55
A while back, I purchased my first IA book, the raid on kastorel novem. I was actually horrified at the price tag, but after being urged to get it, I did, and I thought it was great value for money, definitely worth the cost. This got me thinking, and I was wondering what people thought about codices containing:

-Multiple army lists, (ie, Space marine siege list, ork dread mob, craftworld Iyanden etc etc, all tourney legal)
-Fleet lists for BFG, army lists for epic (Not that GW would, but look at IA10...)
-Apocalypse datasheets and superheavy stats (Lets not lie, they are trying to upscale 40k. I could actually see this one being implemented)
-Campaigns or army specific missions (like the fabulous IA8 one, or some of the battle mission missions)
-Sample army lists, so its easier for beginners (again, a real possibility. you could do 4 to a page for all it matters.)
-customisable characters (sorta like the old wargear system, ie, I could give a warlord (ghazghull thrakas profile) a combi-skorcha and a burna to make the arch arsonist of charadon. I could give a chapter master in termie armour a thunder hammer and vulkans special rule to make Tu'shan.)
-army specific expansion strategems (COD/planetstrike/apoc). Like "kustom tellyporta" for COD, "off board artillery" for apoc for IG. That kind of thing.
- Ready for this one? Templates for custom army templates :D (5" and flame kind of thing) heck, they had ones you could copy and print in the 4th ed book.
plus any other stuff that makes a book more than just a codex, but a beautiful, artistic, useful, interesting gaming companion.

For me, this would make a codex worth the 45. Current ones, for half the price of a forge world book, pail in comparison to the beauty and sheer awesomeness, and for me atleast would make the game a lot more fun. (I am currently orkifying my own templates, I have a dread mob list but never get to use it, not being tourney legal its shunned at my group.)

But I dont want to carry a 50ton book every saturday.

What do you think?

AlexHolker
30-01-2011, 19:10
-Multiple army lists, (ie, Space marine siege list, ork dread mob, craftworld Iyanden etc etc, all tourney legal)
I'd rather see that space used to expand the army list and the options so you can do all these things with the core list.


-Fleet lists for BFG, army lists for epic (Not that GW would, but look at IA10...)
My army doesn't have a fleet, and I don't care for 6mm minis.


-Apocalypse datasheets and superheavy stats (Lets not lie, they are trying to upscale 40k. I could actually see this one being implemented)
-army specific expansion strategems (COD/planetstrike/apoc). Like "kustom tellyporta" for COD, "off board artillery" for apoc for IG. That kind of thing.
I'd want both of these. Especially the first: even you don't play Apocalypse, it would be nice to know about what else the army uses. And if you do play Apocalypse, it gets rid of the problem of bringing a knife to a gunfight purely because your army has been neglected by GW/FW.


-Campaigns or army specific missions (like the fabulous IA8 one, or some of the battle mission missions)
Sure, if they're good. Might inspire some nice terrain, too.


-Sample army lists, so its easier for beginners (again, a real possibility. you could do 4 to a page for all it matters.)
No. I'd be able to get better ones for free off the web.


-customisable characters (sorta like the old wargear system, ie, I could give a warlord (ghazghull thrakas profile) a combi-skorcha and a burna to make the arch arsonist of charadon. I could give a chapter master in termie armour a thunder hammer and vulkans special rule to make Tu'shan.)
Yes. More options to add character to your army are good. I'd go back to a proper armoury like in 3rd edition, too.


- Ready for this one? Templates for custom army templates :D (5" and flame kind of thing) heck, they had ones you could copy and print in the 4th ed book.
No. If I wanted a set of custom templates, I'd want something better than printed paper.

sabreu
30-01-2011, 19:14
-Multiple army lists, (ie, Space marine siege list, ork dread mob, craftworld Iyanden etc etc, all tourney legal)

I'd rather variant lists be the domain of a campaign supplement or whatever.



-Fleet lists for BFG, army lists for epic (Not that GW would, but look at IA10...)

Not a bad idea at all. If the Codex encompassed more than just 40k (BFG, Epic, etc) it would just give us fluff nutters more to know about our factions other than just their ground forces. Not likely ever to happen, but a cool idea none the less.



-Apocalypse datasheets and superheavy stats (Lets not lie, they are trying to upscale 40k. I could actually see this one being implemented)

I can see this eventually happen too.



-Campaigns or army specific missions (like the fabulous IA8 one, or some of the battle mission missions)

This is still better off left with supplements like Cities of Death, Planetstrike, etc



-Sample army lists, so its easier for beginners (again, a real possibility. you could do 4 to a page for all it matters.)

Don't the codex already have beginner lists in them?



-customisable characters (sorta like the old wargear system, ie, I could give a warlord (ghazghull thrakas profile) a combi-skorcha and a burna to make the arch arsonist of charadon. I could give a chapter master in termie armour a thunder hammer and vulkans special rule to make Tu'shan.)

Not sure if I like this idea. I don't really know why.

theJ
30-01-2011, 19:19
Still a somewhat green player, so I'm not sure how well my thoughts coincide with the more experienced ones, but I'll give it a bash:



-Multiple army lists, (ie, Space marine siege list, ork dread mob, craftworld Iyanden etc etc, all tourney legal)

Round about half the forum(myself included) seem to be rooting for this, and the other half very rarelly disagrees, so yes, I'd love to see some extra lists arounds. EDIT: Slight correction: I'd like better support for 'fluffy' lists. This would be one way to achieve it. There might be better ways to do it, in which case - screw the alternative lists, but I would be in favour of this.



-Fleet lists for BFG, army lists for epic (Not that GW would, but look at IA10...)
Dunno, don't really play either of them.



-Apocalypse datasheets and superheavy stats (Lets not lie, they are trying to upscale 40k. I could actually see this one being implemented)
Could be fun. Like with BFG and epic, I ain't gotten to Apocalypse yet, but having a superheavy or two at the back of the book would give me something nice to work towards :)



-Campaigns or army specific missions (like the fabulous IA8 one, or some of the battle mission missions)
Missions are rarely a bad thing. Keep 'em rollin', I say.



-Sample army lists, so its easier for beginners (again, a real possibility. you could do 4 to a page for all it matters.)

meeeh.... maybe a few... there's already plenty on the net (including the GW site) and I've never had any trouble with that sorta thing, but if it helps others, I guess it couldn't hurt...



-customisable characters (sorta like the old wargear system, ie, I could give a warlord (ghazghull thrakas profile) a combi-skorcha and a burna to make the arch arsonist of charadon. I could give a chapter master in termie armour a thunder hammer and vulkans special rule to make Tu'shan.)

Sounds like it could get horribly unbalanced. The only way to make it work would be "only if your opponent agrees with it", and you can kinda do that already...



-army specific expansion strategems (COD/planetstrike/apoc). Like "kustom tellyporta" for COD, "off board artillery" for apoc for IG. That kind of thing.

Yup. Want that.



- Ready for this one? Templates for custom army templates :D (5" and flame kind of thing) heck, they had ones you could copy and print in the 4th ed book.

You mean different templates to the ones we've already got? Not sure what that would actually add to the game....

jack da greenskin
30-01-2011, 19:47
I'd rather see that space used to expand the army list and the options so you can do all these things with the core list.

Really? I think encompassing everything into one list is a really bad idea. A fleet based crusading chapter might struggle to have certain things for example, whilst a static homeworld defending gunline might have different things in a bountiful supply. What I dont want is "Take siege character, dreads become troops." It doesnt add variation to an army, more of limits it. I dont want "take vulkan, you have salamanders." etc etc.

I'd rather variant lists be the domain of a campaign supplement or whatever.

Why? no-one would ever play them. Make them codex legal and I think a lot more variation would be added to your average game.



My army doesn't have a fleet, and I don't care for 6mm minis.

Fair enough. Sure you wouldn't be tempted if there was lists and fluff? I dont have a fleet for any of my armies, yet. But I plan to, and I'd be a lot more tempted if it was in a book I flipped through every train journey.


No. I'd be able to get better ones for free off the web.

Many people (myself included) would never use them. But in a 150 page book, one page that a GW staff member can point to for a parent or kid and say "That." would be a very easy and very useful thing to do IMO. I'd rather it not be in current tiny dexes, but in big, futuristic ones I think it has a place.



Yes. More options to add character to your army are good. I'd go back to a proper armoury like in 3rd edition, too.


Sounds like it could get horribly unbalanced. The only way to make it work would be "only if your opponent agrees with it", and you can kinda do that already...

They dont need to be any more overpowered than special characters now. (who are a bit overpowered but still.) I want a warlord who can give me a 6" turn 2 waaagh, but with a flame template so he fits with the fluffy, themed army I have been making. I want a HQ choice who will give me all the bonus of a salamander chapter, but fit with the fire drake force I've just made. et etc.



No. If I wanted a set of custom templates, I'd want something better than printed paper.
True, that was a weak one I had in a flash of madness. Maybe pictures of what others have done to their templates...



This is still better off left with supplements like Cities of Death, Planetstrike, etc


Fitting 17 armies stratagems in one book would require a lot of space, and lead to useless or overpowered combinations if a new dex came out. Why not put it in the dex? IMO it completely makes sense, but I can see where you're coming from.

sabreu
30-01-2011, 19:58
Really? I think encompassing everything into one list is a really bad idea. A fleet based crusading chapter might struggle to have certain things for example, whilst a static homeworld defending gunline might have different things in a bountiful supply. What I dont want is "Take siege character, dreads become troops." It doesnt add variation to an army, more of limits it. I dont want "take vulkan, you have salamanders." etc etc.

All of which are stylistic impressions given to us by a predetermination in our heads. Whose to say a fleet based chapter would have trouble carrying anything? In fact, I would question this logic completely. 40k is a game based on the premise of defending or assaulting planets. Surely every action pretty much gaurantees someone is dropping their machines unto the surface.



Why? no-one would ever play them. Make them codex legal and I think a lot more variation would be added to your average game

Plenty of people have collected variant campaign lists from IA. The Krieg army lists and Chaos Renegades are particularly popular. If GW were to create campaign books with variant lists I'm sure there would be enough people interested in playing with new toys whether or not they were 'tourny legal' or whatever.

Not to mention having variant lists in a single book would also resort to alot of reduncies. Better in my opinion to have a singular list which is big enough to give any list you want.

In the end, we may disagree, but it's just our opinions. I just don't believe having slightly variant lists outside of a campaign book makes much sense and would restrict the core army lists.



itting 17 armies stratagems in one book would require a lot of space, and lead to useless or overpowered combinations if a new dex came out. Why not put it in the dex? IMO it completely makes sense, but I can see where you're coming from.

My opinion derives from the fact that adding stratagems for specific supplements into the main codex' in a way deprives the supplements themselves from having much content. As it is, I find the CoD, Planetstrike, and Battle Missions to be sorely lacking in actual content as is.

AlexHolker
30-01-2011, 20:02
Fair enough. Sure you wouldn't be tempted if there was lists and fluff?
I didn't explain myself correctly. I do have some BFG vessels and think it's a good game, but the Sisters of Battle are not permitted by the fluff to have a navy.


Many people (myself included) would never use them. But in a 150 page book, one page that a GW staff member can point to for a parent or kid and say "That." would be a very easy and very useful thing to do IMO. I'd rather it not be in current tiny dexes, but in big, futuristic ones I think it has a place.
Creating a good army list requires an understanding of the effectiveness of various units - something that GW is infamously poor at estimating. Stick a sample army list in if you like, but it's not something that I feel adds value.

Zurken
31-01-2011, 01:15
More options = more ways to abuse the system. I think the options available in the 5th-ed codex are enough to make intresting and varied armies.

Kulgur
31-01-2011, 01:29
-Multiple army lists, (ie, Space marine siege list, ork dread mob, craftworld Iyanden etc etc, all tourney legal)

Would be nice


-Fleet lists for BFG, army lists for epic (Not that GW would, but look at IA10...)

IA..5? (Taros Campaign) actually did this. You'll never see it in a 40k codex though as GW hate specialist games these days


-Apocalypse datasheets and superheavy stats (Lets not lie, they are trying to upscale 40k. I could actually see this one being implemented)

Would be nice, probably won't happen though as they'd lose the ability to sell you apocalypse books at 30+ quid a pop


-Campaigns or army specific missions (like the fabulous IA8 one, or some of the battle mission missions)

Some older codecies actually did this (Necron, Witch Hunters and old Dark Eldar spring to mind), nobody played them.


-Sample army lists, so its easier for beginners (again, a real possibility. you could do 4 to a page for all it matters.)

They did this for codex orks, but skipped it for the new dark eldar codex :(


-customisable characters (sorta like the old wargear system, ie, I could give a warlord (ghazghull thrakas profile) a combi-skorcha and a burna to make the arch arsonist of charadon. I could give a chapter master in termie armour a thunder hammer and vulkans special rule to make Tu'shan.)

Meh, there's enough special characters floating around already (there are so many Eldrads floating around that I saw an Eldrad vs Eldrad fight the other day)


-army specific expansion strategems (COD/planetstrike/apoc). Like "kustom tellyporta" for COD, "off board artillery" for apoc for IG. That kind of thing.

Um, already have these? At least for planetstrike and apoc


- Ready for this one? Templates for custom army templates :D (5" and flame kind of thing) heck, they had ones you could copy and print in the 4th ed book.

Non-transparent templates are really really awful to work with.