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Malorian
03-02-2011, 02:25
Assuming you were running a balanced army, what kind of army would you rather face:

A completely mechanized force?

or

An all infantry force?

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
03-02-2011, 02:29
All Infantry. Why? More models to go squish.

Bestaltan
03-02-2011, 02:36
All infantry. Facing that sort of opponent, I know they've spent some time and effort into thinking up the list. All mech, and it may be that your opponent just lifted the list off of the internet in about 5 seconds.

Tenzing
03-02-2011, 03:11
All mech- only because most people play them like the internet tells them to, and I like to know my enemy ;)

Charistoph
03-02-2011, 04:05
Depends on the game.

Tournament - Mech - Means fewer models to kill over all, making it easier to accomplish a win.

Friendly - Whatever. Horde models means you have to coordinate your fire very effectively to be successful, making it fun.

Mannimarco
03-02-2011, 04:15
Either or

All my lists are "all comers" types, if I struggle against an all mech or an all infantry then Ive done somthing wrong.

Vaktathi
03-02-2011, 04:53
Don't really care personally. It probably depends on what army I brought and what "infantry" force we are talking about (Green Tide or Deathwing?) and what Mech force we are talking about (DE AV10 Open Topped Raiders, Rhino Rush, 4x Land Raiders, or IG AV12 Chimera Wall?).

Angelwing
03-02-2011, 04:59
All infantry, then all my weapons can potentially hurt all the enemy. That and I normally use my tyranids who can cover anti infantry better than anti tank.

Refyougee
03-02-2011, 05:09
all mech because i don't like playing against 12 year olds

PatchOnMyShoulder
03-02-2011, 05:12
Hard to answer...

Which one I'd rather face because I want to win? (thus picking what's IMO the 'weaker' of the two?)

Or which one I'd rather face because I'm looking for a challenge? (thus picking the rarer or harder of the two, depending on how I define a challenge)

*Thinks on it*

I'll say all infantry because I feel both confident against it and it's rarer these days and if more people play it more people will experiment with it and maybe they'll come more in vogue.

Angelwing
03-02-2011, 05:13
all mech because i don't like playing against 12 year olds

Er, not sure I understand the reasoning here.:confused:

Dvora
03-02-2011, 05:16
All infantry list, because I plan to face allot of mech, so I always have allot of anti vehicle options. So.. Las cannons and meltas make hordes laugh.

zantis
03-02-2011, 06:55
Mech because thats what I come prepared for

laudarkul
03-02-2011, 07:35
Both of them... But sometimes an all infantry list is much easy to beat it.

tuebor
03-02-2011, 07:37
Either/or, that's the point of a balanced list.

I lean a bit more towards wanting to play against mechanized simply due to how much time the game takes, especially as I go rather infantry heavy these days. I played an all-infantry Ork list with my all-infantry IG recently and it took all damned night, which was unfortunate because I have to drive 45 minutes home after game night.

Malorian
03-02-2011, 13:35
Now that this has gone on for a while I'll add my thoughts:

The reason for this poll is that while I like all infantry armies, my brother likes all tank armies.

I've always thought that a system where something couldn't be hurt is a bad one is and easily abused, and even though in 5th I was glad to see you hit the bad armor it didn't make up for just how good (and thus popular) they became.

I can't turn around without seeing an all mech list that makes my balanced list need to go all out just to stand half a chance, and that drives me nuts!

When I brought this up to my brother he let me know that he hates facing all infantry, and so I thought a poll was in order to see what kind of list people hated to face the most.


Looking at the results now it shows that people would rather play against an infantry lilst (29-11 at the time of this post) and really I was surprised it's not more biased than that. Although it seems the reason people don't like infantry lists is just the extra time it takes.

carldooley
03-02-2011, 14:14
All infantry lists are entertaining, in that they are extremely hard to smash flat. the newer BA lists have that little something extra on account of the Sanguinary Priests, but I have always agreed with my fellow players that a meched list is easier to take out as it has fewer models. an infantry list on the other hand, can be a pure pain in the butt to play against.

ColShaw
03-02-2011, 14:20
all mech because i don't like playing against 12 year olds

Good assumption and insult all rolled into one. I won't even ask you to explain this, because I don't think there's any way you can justify it.

I'm nearly 30, by the way, and play infantry. So where's that leave us?

Anyway, I like playing against infantry, because it guarantees an astronomical body count, whoever wins. And that's fun.

GingerBalls
03-02-2011, 15:03
I now run a wych heavy DE army now so slicing through a bunch of infantry is great fun! I have loads of dark lances but those damn things are so unreliable.

Malorian
03-02-2011, 15:05
I'm nearly 30, by the way, and play infantry. So where's that leave us?

Anyway, I like playing against infantry, because it guarantees an astronomical body count, whoever wins. And that's fun.

ColShaw... I think... maybe... you might be my twin! :eek:

Hypaspist
03-02-2011, 15:10
I'm not going to vote Mal, As I don't actually have a preference.

What I will say though, is that some of the best games I have had have been where we have both agreed to play all infantry, or all mech, matched up what we are playing style-wise (and still gone for competetive choices) and then gone hell for leather!

(The games in question were Ork Vs Guard grudge matches, and were awesome!)





..... as was the body count...


:shifty:

ColShaw
03-02-2011, 15:11
ColShaw... I think... maybe... you might be my twin! :eek:

Hmm... I have an evil (or possibly good) Canadian twin?

It would explain some things... :shifty:

Souleater
03-02-2011, 15:16
All infantry. I have always had abysmal luck killing tanks and transports.

Bunnahabhain
03-02-2011, 15:22
Infantry heavy.

All my best games of 40K have either been against Infantry heavy Guard or Orks. The players of those armies just accept removing casualties with a dustpan and brush( figuratively, not literally. Only person I saw physically doing that had about 150 genestealers, and it was a silly apoc game..) as normal....

The best one was against a massive green tide, with infantry guard. Plenty of Lobbas, mortars, etc on both sides, FOCs being somewhat bent, and platoons/mobs being recycled. The bodycount was about 400....

Tymell
03-02-2011, 16:00
All infantry myself. Simply because I find it more fun (though that may be the Khornate berzerker who loves to hack and slash through hordes of pitiful weaklings in me talking :evilgrin:)

ColShaw
03-02-2011, 16:09
Infantry heavy.

All my best games of 40K have either been against Infantry heavy Guard or Orks. The players of those armies just accept removing casualties with a dustpan and brush.

Bunnahabhain makes a good point. Horde players don't tend to get as upset when one of their units gets whacked. In fact, they sometimes find it hilarious. Deathstar players, in my experience, are more likely to get really mad when some bad luck hits them and they lose their big, important unit. Horde players shrug, smile, say "more where that came from" and pile up the corpses.

Hypaspist
03-02-2011, 16:13
Bunnahabhain makes a good point. Horde players don't tend to get as upset when one of their units gets whacked... Horde players shrug, smile, say "more where that came from" and pile up the corpses.

Especially, Col. Shaw, when it's your own units that are doing it
*Looks at Shokk Attack Gun* :eyebrows:
:D

Playing Horde, and most especially, playing Orky Hordes, was a massive step forward for my ability to accept losses. This attitude to accept horrific losses then transfers to any army you play and helps you enjoy the game more :) (imo)

senorcardgage
03-02-2011, 16:31
Okay, so I'm Malorian's brother and I need to clear something up here. My brother hates all tank armies, which is fair, since they can be difficult to face. What brought this debate up was that I suggested that his armies weren't particularly easy to play against either. As a few examples, these are some of the lists that he likes to run in 2000 points:

6x30 ork boy squads including nobs with klaws and poles
1x15 lootas
1x15 tank bustas
2x Big meks

and

Master of the forge with conversion beamer
3x10 man tac squads with melta gun and lascannon
3x10 man tac squads with plasma guns and missile launcher
Attack bike with multi melta
1x10 devastators with three lascannons
2x10 devastators with four missile launchers

So, my point is that it would also be difficult for balanced forces to beat one of these armies. What balanced force can wipe out 212 orks that have 5+ cover saves at all times? My guard list is really tough to face for balanced armies but, in all honesty, I think that I'd rather play against the guard list than ork spam that just runs forward or marine heavy weapon spam that just sits and shoots.

Spamming is spamming, whether you do it with tanks, infantry, monstrous creatures, whatever.

Ville
03-02-2011, 16:31
Hmm, a difficult question. Let's say mech, because my balanced force should have tools to take out the transports (or at least some of them) and then the passengers once they are out in the open.

Plus, there are less models to move around, meaning faster games which I personally like.

Keichi246
03-02-2011, 16:49
Spam is spam.

All mech lists interest me - because I've been a tread head for 30 years. I grew up reading about Kursk and sprawling tank battles of WWII Eastern front.

Fighting against all mech can be interesting because it is using your limited antitank resources to kill the most dangerous targets. It can get boring if you don't have enough resources to do that.

All infantry battles can be interesting because yes - you do remove models in job lots. Then again - they can also be boring if you DO have enough firepower to slow the tide. (one of my local enemies was tried using an all footslogging Sisters army vs my Tau for the longest time. Could never make it past the halfway point on the board... It became very boring quickly).

Did not answer the poll...

ColShaw
03-02-2011, 17:07
So, my point is that it would also be difficult for balanced forces to beat one of these armies. What balanced force can wipe out 212 orks that have 5+ cover saves at all times? My guard list is really tough to face for balanced armies but, in all honesty, I think that I'd rather play against the guard list than ork spam that just runs forward or marine heavy weapon spam that just sits and shoots.

Spamming is spamming, whether you do it with tanks, infantry, monstrous creatures, whatever.

Well, in a 1500 tournament I played my Battle Sisters (a fairly balanced list, mostly mech mounted, with some allied IG infantry) against a Green Tide which had 152 models in it. I didn't kill them all, but I did get 52 Orks in the Turn 2 Shooting phase alone, and there were only about 30 of them left at game's end, so it can be done. But it's messy.

I understand where you're coming from, I think, and optimized lists on either end of the spectrum can be pretty harsh.

Malorian
03-02-2011, 18:48
Spamming is spamming, whether you do it with tanks, infantry, monstrous creatures, whatever.

Spamming is spamming, but against one you get to end the game knowing you killed literally hundreds of models, and against the other all you did was rattle some tanks around and hopefully destroyed a couple...


I remember years ago I made an Alpha Legion Cultist army. At the start of the game there would be nothing and then BANG! you are surrounded by over 200 infiltrating models (all converted lizardmen skinks).

I could usually win through attrition but I would end the game with only a handful of models left.

That army was awesome.

Vaktathi
03-02-2011, 19:15
Very few armies are going to field triple digit numbers of models even if going all infantry. On the other hand, with most mech armies, especially SM, DE and Ork armies, it's not exactly impossible to destroy most or all of their vehicles, unless your dice just really hate you. Assuming you brought a proper amount of AT and utilized it well, you should be doing a lot more than merely rattling them and desperately hoping to kill only a couple.

Additionally, for some armies, the difference in model count between Mech and Non-Mech is relatively little. My CSM army might fit in a couple more terminators if I drop the Rhinos, maybe another Daemon Prince or an 8man CSM squad, but that's about it. It's not going to suddenly explode with infantry.

Malorian
03-02-2011, 20:45
Very few armies are going to field triple digit numbers of models even if going all infantry. On the other hand, with most mech armies, especially SM, DE and Ork armies, it's not exactly impossible to destroy most or all of their vehicles, unless your dice just really hate you. Assuming you brought a proper amount of AT and utilized it well, you should be doing a lot more than merely rattling them and desperately hoping to kill only a couple.

Additionally, for some armies, the difference in model count between Mech and Non-Mech is relatively little. My CSM army might fit in a couple more terminators if I drop the Rhinos, maybe another Daemon Prince or an 8man CSM squad, but that's about it. It's not going to suddenly explode with infantry.

A while back my brother and I played in a doubles tournament with mixed lists.

In one of our games we came up against one of our toughest matchups: a mech-guard mech-space marines list.

They got turn 1 and nuked the devs... from that point on we were on the defensive and barely managed a draw.


People who run tank armies know what can hurt them and will wipe it out first.


If you decide to drop vehicles for elite units you obviously won't be hitting tripple digits, but you also will obviously have more models.

Either way you are going from an army that is built around 'you can't hurt me' to 'hey I have a ton of models, lets fight!'.

Vaktathi
03-02-2011, 21:21
A while back my brother and I played in a doubles tournament with mixed lists.

In one of our games we came up against one of our toughest matchups: a mech-guard mech-space marines list.

They got turn 1 and nuked the devs... from that point on we were on the defensive and barely managed a draw. Well without knowing what your forces were and the points and mission it's kinda hard to comment, but it sounds like the gunline got it's prime start position, so it isn't hard to see why that would be a hard game, mech'd or not.



People who run tank armies know what can hurt them and will wipe it out first. That goes for any good player playing anything though.



If you decide to drop vehicles for elite units you obviously won't be hitting tripple digits, but you also will obviously have more models. Not always much more, as I said, if I dropped all the Rhino's from my CSM list, all I'd really be able to put in is maybe another understrength CSM unit, maybe increasing total model count by 4? Going from 4 transports to 7-8 extra CSM's? Granted yes going from mech guard to infantry guard is going to explode ones infantry count, but this isn't true of all armies.


Additionally, many armies or units are rather purposely designed to be mechanized. Many Eldar and Tau units are very noticeably purpose built for mechanization (Dire Avengers, Fire Warriors to some extent, Tau Pathfinders, Fire Dragons, etc). You don't see footslogging Dire Avengers or Fire Dragons for a good reason, either in 4th or 5th. You don't see non-mechanized IG Vet armies for the same reasons, because quite frankly they don't work, such units get slaughtered.

T3 4+/5+sv models packing lots of short range special weapons that have to footslog everywhere just don't work well at all unless you are hiding them as a reaction unit for when an opponent closes range (in which case they are hiding most of the time and their utility is fairly limited), but such units become *really* good general purpose troops when thrown in a transport.



Either way you are going from an army that is built around 'you can't hurt me' to 'hey I have a ton of models, lets fight!'.I don't see that at all, that sounds like a far more subjective matter of personal taste. Just because an opponent is mechanized doesn't mean that they can't be hurt, it means you need to stop the transport to get at the infantry, which I find to be a nice, interesting double-layer to the game. I can't just shoot the **** out of opponents from the get go, I've got to actually think about a bit more about not only stopping infantry, but having to crack a transport with the infantry being a turn or two further up the board than they would otherwise.

Greater model count alone also really shouldn't have any bearing on how fun a game is.

Malorian
03-02-2011, 21:25
I think everything has been said, and the poll speaks fir itself.

Thread closed.