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rob1992
03-02-2011, 09:33
I'm starting a Vampire Counts army soon, and as having a think about Black Knights. At the moment, I'm planning to convert them from Bretonnian Knights with skeleton and Grave Guard heads, spears, shields and shoulder pads.

I then noticed in an old thread that GW were supposed to be releasing some for around this time and was wondering if anyone had any idea about this?

tezza21
03-02-2011, 10:44
They did mate but there 50 quid for 5

rodmillard
03-02-2011, 10:49
I thought that was the Blood Knights?

If you're not dependent on a GW store to play, these (http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Undead/Cavalry/Product/Undead-Revenant-Cavalry-10-Figures.html) are some of the best undead cavalry out there at the moment - and at £2.50 per model considerably cheaper than GW's offerings as well...

Mr. Ultra
03-02-2011, 10:55
Answering to your question: no. GW's not willing to release new plastic Black Knights anytime soon.

tezza21
03-02-2011, 11:00
ahh yes sorry they are blood knight i am sorry i'm so hung over i am afraid to look down lol

sethorly
03-02-2011, 12:53
I'm using THESE (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440062a&prodId=prod900166a) as my blood knights (they even have dragons on their shields, and you can swop their heads for something more vampirish if you want).

And then Mantic's revenant knights for my black knights.

Having 2 model systems in the army does make for an odd-looking army, but it just makes sense for the cost unless you're loaded or a purist.

rob1992
03-02-2011, 13:08
Thanks for the replies. I had a look at the Revenant Cavalry, but they don't really fit with the GW skeletons that I'm using, so I'll just go for conversions. Speaking of which, does anyone know of a bitz site that has the Grave Guard shoulder pads in stock?

psyberwyche
03-02-2011, 13:09
Having 2 model systems in the army does make for an odd-looking army, but it just makes sense for the cost unless you're loaded or a purist.

Or unless you don't want an odd-looking army… ;)

SteelTitan
03-02-2011, 13:19
except for the horses, i really don't think black knights are that bad.

blood knights are pretty excellent, except for some of the horses that seem to be having a seizure. I will 'never' pay that kinda money for a couple of cavalry models.

I must say I really like your conversion idea, id say go for it! It will turn out to be an awesome looking unit, i'm sure!

And nope, no rumours on VC releases.

tezza21
03-02-2011, 18:05
Yeah the high elf dragon knights do look sweet i wolud love to see your convertions ?

sethorly
03-02-2011, 20:35
Or unless you don't want an odd-looking army… ;)

True - missed that option out didn't I?!

thenamelessdead
03-02-2011, 21:02
I wouldn't say that the current Black Knight models look bad, but they're a nuisance to keep together. The arm joints are pathetic. Unless you have some unbelievable pinning skills you are going to go through a lot of superglue keeping them all together.

sethorly
03-02-2011, 22:23
The person who reintroduced me to WHFB gave me a good tip as an alternative to pinning. Just sprinkle bicarbonate of soda (in yo mamma's kitchen or from a supermarket) on one surface, normal superglue (not the plastic glue type) on the other edge and press together. There's an exothermic reaction (nothing visible but it's cool to note that) and some toxic fumes waft your way, and after a few seconds the two surfaces are welded tightly shut.

Oh and on the Mantic/GW/etc mixing of models for an army - some armies have to have a mix of model types anyway as GW hasn't updated the ancient models (vampire counts for sure), or the new models are almost cartoonish rather than scary (dire wolves, zombies). May as well make it less financially painful for yourself I reckon.

rodmillard
03-02-2011, 22:45
I'm using THESE (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440062a&prodId=prod900166a) as my blood knights (they even have dragons on their shields, and you can swop their heads for something more vampirish if you want).

And then Mantic's revenant knights for my black knights.

Having 2 model systems in the army does make for an odd-looking army, but it just makes sense for the cost unless you're loaded or a purist.

I'm using LotR Morghul knights for my Blood Knights - being true 28mm rather than heroic scale, they fit better with the Mantic minis than some WFB options, and since I'm also using models from the LotR range for my vampire characters on foot it doesn't look out of place, since everything with the Vampire special rule is in the same kind of armour. I even have a Warlord mini thrown in (their hag druid from the Ancient Celts range is more in keeping with the general theme as a necromancer than either GW's or Mantics character models)

bambamBIGILO
03-02-2011, 22:54
I think the best, if your looking for the match is your conversion plan. U might be able to find something on eBay, or something to chop up from there at least.
The best way to match the horses up IMHO is to do the horses in ethereal look, saw a nice set done with green then glowing blue eyes. Looked very sharp

ExquisiteMonkey
04-02-2011, 03:59
The person who reintroduced me to WHFB gave me a good tip as an alternative to pinning. Just sprinkle bicarbonate of soda (in yo mamma's kitchen or from a supermarket) on one surface, normal superglue (not the plastic glue type) on the other edge and press together. There's an exothermic reaction (nothing visible but it's cool to note that) and some toxic fumes waft your way, and after a few seconds the two surfaces are welded tightly shut.



Wait, does that actually work? as in, have you personally done this?

Slayerthane
04-02-2011, 04:55
Thanks for the replies. I had a look at the Revenant Cavalry, but they don't really fit with the GW skeletons that I'm using, so I'll just go for conversions. Speaking of which, does anyone know of a bitz site that has the Grave Guard shoulder pads in stock?

Best bet is to try ebay. I know Hoard O Bits usually has alot of everything and their customer service is excellent.

sethorly
04-02-2011, 09:32
Wait, does that actually work? as in, have you personally done this?

Yes, absolutely! It's wicked! My metal Varghulf and mounted Manfred models were indestructibly assembled in a couple of minutes.

The bicarbonate of soda needs to be sprinkled on so that it is as thick as, say, a frosty lawn, that is not too thick and not too thin. A reasonable blob of ordinary superglue on the other surface and hold together for 30 seconds. Job done. How cool is that?

tezza21
04-02-2011, 14:32
i'm trying that bicarb trick in the future

Vashta
04-02-2011, 16:04
Yes, absolutely! It's wicked! My metal Varghulf and mounted Manfred models were indestructibly assembled in a couple of minutes.

The bicarbonate of soda needs to be sprinkled on so that it is as thick as, say, a frosty lawn, that is not too thick and not too thin. A reasonable blob of ordinary superglue on the other surface and hold together for 30 seconds. Job done. How cool is that?

Just make sure its the watery type rather than the gel as it doesn't work as well.

Also keep cotton wool well away!

Brian Mage
04-02-2011, 18:45
bicarb trick is awesome

mistrmoon
05-02-2011, 04:09
Just make sure its the watery type rather than the gel as it doesn't work as well.

Also keep cotton wool well away!

This sounds like a challenge....:shifty:

Hjiryon
05-02-2011, 09:51
Personally, if I was only going to field black knights or blood knights, I'd use these models for either:
http://www.gamezoneminiatures.de/product_info.php/info/p478_Ritter-der-Verdammten-Standartentr-ger.html

But then, as long as the quality matches, I don't mind paying for miniatures - as far as I'm concerned, Mantic is just the cheaper alternative, but you get what you pay for.

rodmillard
06-02-2011, 08:19
But then, as long as the quality matches, I don't mind paying for miniatures - as far as I'm concerned, Mantic is just the cheaper alternative, but you get what you pay for.

If that's a subtle dig at the quality of the Mantic range, then you really need to take a second look at their undead range. I had my doubts about the elves, although they have grown on me, and the dwarves are a bit meh, but the undead are light years ahead of their GW equivalents for a fraction of the cost - especially the ghouls and revenant cavalry (I concede, however, that their undead characters are somewhat lacking - this is why I mix my mantic with Warlord and LotR minis in my army).

Aluinn
07-02-2011, 00:16
If that's a subtle dig at the quality of the Mantic range, then you really need to take a second look at their undead range. I had my doubts about the elves, although they have grown on me, and the dwarves are a bit meh, but the undead are light years ahead of their GW equivalents for a fraction of the cost - especially the ghouls and revenant cavalry (I concede, however, that their undead characters are somewhat lacking - this is why I mix my mantic with Warlord and LotR minis in my army).

Personally, I find that the GW Skeletons and Grave Guard (well, elite skeletons really :)) are a lot better than Mantic's equivalents. It's not that the detail on the Mantic minis is poor or anything like that. They are technically of very good quality. It's just that the poses and proportions of a lot of Mantic stuff seem slightly, but very noticeably--at least to me--off.

I'll admit though that I'm not a fan of GW Ghouls at all (and I know I'm not alone in that), but I haven't been able to find any ghoul models I'm very enamored with. Thus, sadly, I haven't been using any Ghoul units, even though they're very strong in 8th.

For cavalry, either Blood Knights or Black Knights (though of course it would be wonky to use them as both, if you happen to have both in the same army), I also recommend GW Morgul Knights from the LotR range. They're really nice and don't look exactly like anything from the movies to the point where the average person is going glance at them and say: "Oh those are the guys from LotR!". They definitely have that Mordor-style armor, but that's a fairly universal undead/evil motif.

Quannum
07-02-2011, 11:32
Has anyone else been disappointed with the scale and size of the Revenant Knights? I ordered a box of ten from Mantic and opened them with excitement to find that they are much smaller in scale than everything else (even other models in the Mantic Undead Range, such as the Ghouls!) and therefore look absolutely ridiculous.

I'm contemplating sending mine back.

Q

sethorly
07-02-2011, 13:49
They look ridiculous next to the GW heroic figures, like Mannfred on Nightmare. But then everything does. But to be fair they are skeletons, so perhaps ought to be a bit.......thin...! I know what you mean though, they were a bit of a let down due to their less-than-imposing size.

scarletsquig
07-02-2011, 14:08
I'm very happy with my mantic undead, that said, I agree completely that they don't mix well with GW's models. I'm mixing in LotR Morghul Knights and Army of the Dead for spirit hosts/ black knights. Revenant cavalry are fine too, you just have to get your mind away from the GW-scale where the horses are bigger than shire horses, the weapons are bigger than the models, and empire rifles are at least 10 feet long. 7th edition sculpts took this to an increasingly ridiculous level.

The 6th edition GW vampire models work great with them though, 7th edition vamps are too chunky-style to fit. Mordheim necromancer also fits quite well and is a really nice model.

Morkash
07-02-2011, 14:39
I heard similar things for the Gamezone minis posted above: Too small, don't mix with GW stuff etc. They look quite good on the pic (though it is not a good/detailed pic...), but never saw one myself, so I can only channel what I've heard about them. The new Dragon Princes make awesome Blood Knights imo, there was a conversion/painting scheme for vampires on CMON...somewhere...
Edit: I'm mixing old and new GW stuff happily, combining Marauder Orks with ancient warmachines and newer GW stuff...doens't match all the time, but then again I'm playing Greenskins. ;)

rodmillard
07-02-2011, 22:56
It's just that the poses and proportions of a lot of Mantic stuff seem slightly, but very noticeably--at least to me--off.

Fair enough. I work with real skeletons every day and prefer Mantic's version to the GW models, but I suppose it's all a matter of taste. Mind you, the skeletons and grave guard really are the stars of the GW undead range.


... I also recommend GW Morgul Knights from the LotR range. They're really nice and don't look exactly like anything from the movies to the point where the average person is going glance at them and say: "Oh those are the guys from LotR!". They definitely have that Mordor-style armor, but that's a fairly universal undead/evil motif.

Actually, there's a lot in the LotR range that works very well - I use black numenorean warriors for my vampire characters on foot, Army of the Dead as spirit hosts, Gulvahar as a Varghulf substitute, and I'm contemplating getting a Nazgul on Fell Beast to convert into a Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror; the LotR bat swarms are light years ahead of the WFB equivalents as well, if a little pricey at £8.50 per base. Then again, most of those models will do double or even triple duty (WFB vampire counts, KoW undead, and/or LotR) so I'm definitely getting my money's worth out of them!

surprize
09-02-2011, 10:29
I have some of the Gamezone mournful knights and I can't say I've ever noticed any differences in scale to GW.


Personally, I find that the GW Skeletons and Grave Guard (well, elite skeletons really :)) are a lot better than Mantic's equivalents. It's not that the detail on the Mantic minis is poor or anything like that. They are technically of very good quality. It's just that the poses and proportions of a lot of Mantic stuff seem slightly, but very noticeably--at least to me--off.



The big difference is that progressively GW has gone down the route of making their undead mindless automata, which kind of fits with their fluff but has meant their models aren't especially dynamic, not when you compare them to their stuff from the '80's. Mantic has very much gone down the old school route of the evil dead, their models are malevolent and nasty. They're not just all mindlessly shuffling forward en mass, they want to stick it to the enemy and eat their brains. Its just a totally different approach to the essence of fantasy necromancy: mindless puppets vs imbued with evil magic.

For that reason the ranges really don't mix and match well. That said I'd always go for Mantic zombies regardless; the GW zombies are frankly a disgrace, although it is nice that they let the work experience kid sculpt a whole plastic box set I guess.