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View Full Version : Simultaneous focus for WH & 40k?



Grimstonefire
05-02-2011, 16:14
Back in WHFB 6th ed it often used to be the case that you'd have wave releases tagged together for 40k AND WHFB in a month. The way we have it at the moment you have wave releases for one OR the other...

For a company that can't release models fast enough does this seem a bit strange to people? They have voluntarily chosen to reduce their output.

I understand the need to give their staffers something to pitch, but why can't they do it for both systems?

This is something I feel they really need to change in their sales strategy. They have 12 chances to release 'something' a year (more or less), so why do their punish themselves so much?

Wolf Lord Balrog
05-02-2011, 22:38
Back in WHFB 6th ed it often used to be the case that you'd have wave releases tagged together for 40k AND WHFB in a month. The way we have it at the moment you have wave releases for one OR the other...

For a company that can't release models fast enough does this seem a bit strange to people? They have voluntarily chosen to reduce their output.

I understand the need to give their staffers something to pitch, but why can't they do it for both systems?

This is something I feel they really need to change in their sales strategy. They have 12 chances to release 'something' a year (more or less), so why do their punish themselves so much?

Its not so much that GW has 'decided' to reduce their output, demand has simply been drying up. Unit sales of Warhammer and 40k have been slowly declining for a decade now.

rodmillard
05-02-2011, 23:59
Its not so much that GW has 'decided' to reduce their output, demand has simply been drying up. Unit sales of Warhammer and 40k have been slowly declining for a decade now.

And that is a reason to reduce their output?

Surely if unit sales are dropping (after all, a player can only have so many tactical marines) then they need to produce a greater variety of models. In that way, they can capitalise on as many potential purchasers as possible.

GW are willing to piggy-back releases with LotR (in fact LotR didn't get a month to itself last year) but for some reason they dislike releasing models for both their "core" games at once. This is one of the main reasons I stopped buying White Dwarf (except in the months when they publish SBG rules for new LotR units) - it is basically a 90 page long advertisement for whatever that month's release happens to be, and with the best will in the world I lose interest halfway through what they laughably describe as an editorial.

Surely it would be better for them to split releases so that you have a big release for one system accompanied by a mini-wave (wavelet?) for one or both of the others every month.

To give an example, this month we had an awe inspiring two plastic kits released for Blood Angels, while next month we have fantasy Orcs & Goblins getting a new book, 3 confirmed plastic kits and some metal characters. I very much doubt there are many people out there for whom this is an "either/or" choice, so they could easily have been released in the same month. The next month could have been focused on LotR, perhaps with plastics for one of the factions that is currently only available in metal, accompanied by a wave release for a fantasy army (perhaps one or two of the missing beastmen kits). Then the following month we could have had the SBG rules for those LotR minis in white dwarf while the new codex and minis for Grey Knights came out.

If they rolled the cycle like that they could easily have 8 releases for each system every year, and we could get back to the one-codex-per-quarter pattern that allowed them to release every single faction as a codex in 3rd ed. Thus, interest would be maintained in all 3 core games, and with that many releases there's a good chance that every gamer would have something new and shiny to buy every year, instead of waiting a decade for their next set of figures...

Fishslapper
06-02-2011, 00:57
It is rather strange indeed. I understand that there may be falling demand, but GW certainly does get about with the computer games, and hopefully the Hobbit film twinned with the new models should bring in people much as the Original Trilogy did with me.

There is nothing being released for WHFB this month, or so I am led to believe. it's disappointing when I don't really like WH40k. A few years ago I remember seeing things as the original poster said, every month for both.

It may be easier to hype one army, and maybe sales are increased most that way, but I'm waiting a month for Orks and probably another 3 for the one after. There is quite little for me to read about, and also it means that I don't buy White Dwarf because there isn't a huge amount that interests me.

But there are 103 things wrong with GWs strategy from my point of view, and from what I've learned, moaning about it never solves anything, neither does trying to sort it too... Maybe I'm biased towards a gamer's perspective or maybe GW really does mess up quite a bit.

scarletsquig
07-02-2011, 10:57
We got both the dark eldar release and new fantasy terrain last November.

Current rumours point to some dark eldar metals being released in March a few weeks after O&G, too.

Nothing wrong with their model releases, it's the army book releases that have slowed down to a trickle. With the exception of 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition fantasy, GW has failed to release a new army book/codex for each army every edition.

8th edition fantasy looks especially unlikely to hit the target either, since we haven't had a single 8th edition book yet and rumours are that there will only be 2 book releases this year... we will probably get new books for about 7-8 of the fantasy armies before 9th edition arrives.

40k isn't in a great position either, since it has 6 seperate space marine codexes to keep updated in addition to the 10 other books.

We really need at least 3 new codexes and 3 new army books a year. And they need to not be completely terrible, as a lot of recent ones (beastmen, tyranids) have been, because then we're stuck with them for another decade.

Pigboyneo
14-02-2011, 01:07
The way Gw release's army books/codexs is one of their biggest downfalls. I really don't get the way they release rules for new editions, 8th ed fantasy is a good example, also the way they release models and rules at the same time.

Ok for example, OnG are going to be the first army book updated for 8th ed. But even though 8th ed was released months ago, we are only getting a 8th ed army book now and it will be months again till they release another army book. And being as GW release new editions ever 4-5 years, many armies will not even get updated, just like what happened with 7th ed, with WE, OK, and TK.

Why couldn't GW release all army books/codexs at the same time they release a new edition?

IJW
14-02-2011, 10:51
Why couldn't GW release all army books/codexs at the same time they release a new edition?
Because it would be a logistical nightmare, the studio simply doesn't have enough staff to work on that many books at once and GW would go under due to lack of sales between editions? ;)

Chaos and Evil
14-02-2011, 11:07
Why couldn't GW release all army books/codexs at the same time they release a new edition?
Because keeping the sales of the game going is more important than the quality and consistency of the game itself.

Pigboyneo
14-02-2011, 23:56
Because it would be a logistical nightmare, the studio simply doesn't have enough staff to work on that many books at once and GW would go under due to lack of sales between editions? ;)

Ok, but doesn't games workshop still suffer from most of these points already? Or is it more of a problem that GW will not expand their business?

Logistics. I agree that it would be more difficult logisticaly for GW. But computer games companies, film industry etc manage to get past this sort of proplem now, so why couldn't GW?

Staff. GW does not have enough staff working on books now, so of course they would have to hire more people. They really need to be doing that now, but I will get more into that later on.

Sales. Am really not sure how GW would lose sales this way. Wouldn't it improve? Because the way they release new products atm they lose potenial sales any way.

For example, OnG are getting released, so the money GW will be making from that, will be from people who already own OnG, potential new players or existing players who want to start a new army. So they are losing potenial sales from customers who own different armies or new players/existing that don't want to play OnG. If all army books for fantasy where released at the same time then almost all existing players would be buying and their would be far more potenial new customers because they would have far more choice to pick from.

Model sales I would see going up aswell. Again for example, OnG are the only army for fantasy that will be getting new models, then it will be TBA for any other army models. So again, they are losing sales from existing customers who own a different army or potenial new customers who don't want to play OnG. If all the books where released at the same time, then of course GW would never be able to make all the new models at the same time, but they would have to release new models like the way they release new models in waves now, but with abit of a difference. Example;

Every few months release 2-4 new model ranges for different armies, so wave x would be OnG, Dwa, TK and WoC or even OnG, Dwa and 40k Eldar, Space Marines

So I would see sales improve, because more than one army customer base would be catered for, so more sales because more pontenial customers.

So say a 6 years time line, year 1-3 WFBG edition release, with models wave release's as I said, then year 4-6 40k edition release, with the same sort of model release. What GW would have todo is hire more staff, and expand there business this way, but this is all wishful thinking and GW will just continue priceing them selves out of business.


Because keeping the sales of the game going is more important than the quality and consistency of the game itself.

Am sorry but I do not agree with this statement. Of course sales are important to any business, but the quality of the "goods"/service provided by the business must reflect the prices the business charges for them. Atm GW offers very little for what they charge. Where as other model companies (PTP, Mantic) offer far more for the prices they charge.

Avatar_exADV
15-02-2011, 08:10
If nobody ever gets anything from an army they don't play, then GW loses quite a few sales right there. Plenty of people switch armies, or shelve one and try out the new hotness for a while. For that sort of thing, a big wave release is going to work better than a trickle. If an army has one new model, are you going to think about picking it up? What if it's got a new rulebook and eight new kits, including an eye-popping giant monster? There you go, then.

Another problem with trickling is that players are likely to have an eye on the rules for the models (since they, you know, are already playing with the army). If a particular character isn't jaw-dropping, or if a particular unit is underperforming, those models aren't going to go anywhere. So that's an incentive to hold off on releasing models with "better" powers and abilities until later. You're swapping codex creep for, quite literally, Flavor of the Month.

OTOH, if they have Tomb Kings coming in the first half of the year, behind O&G, then that's not too bad, now is it?

Pigboyneo
15-02-2011, 08:59
OTOH, if they have Tomb Kings coming in the first half of the year, behind O&G, then that's not too bad, now is it?

Being as 8th ed has been out for almost 8 months and now we are only getting OnG in March, it all will most likely be another 3 months min until TK are released, so almost a year, and only 2 8th ed army books out?

Ye, that pretty bad, being as its 4-5 year per edition, at the current rate looks like armies are going to miss out again.............

IJW
15-02-2011, 09:53
If nobody ever gets anything from an army they don't play, then GW loses quite a few sales right there. Plenty of people switch armies, or shelve one and try out the new hotness for a while. For that sort of thing, a big wave release is going to work better than a trickle.
That covered it.

Wave releases work (as much as they do actually work) by encouraging people to swap armies or buy a new army and giving shop staff something to promote.

If all armies are released at the same time you automatically cut out people swapping armies or bulking up a 'retired' army in favour of new stuff for the current/main army.

Pure anecdote (and second-hand at that) but I remember Blongbling or one of the people who worked for GW saying that non-Marine range sales die out almost to nothing within six months of the codex release, with a blip if there's a second range of models.

A couple of points on throwing more staff at codex/army book production:

1. Go look up the 'mythical man-month'. A lot of the stuff in it applies to all creative processes, not just software.

2. Each book is in the works for 18-24 months IIRC, with specific choke points like model sculpting, illustration etc. That means 4-6 books per system at any one time, all at different stages. Bump that up to 16 or so books per system and you're looking at a minimum of triple the staff, in effect it'll be more because all the books will be at the same point at the same time.

That's the kind of thing I was talking about when I said logistical problems (not stock distribution etc.) - suddenly, instead of one book per system needing laying out you have sixteen all coming in at once. Get the wave of books out and what do all the graphic designers do then?

selfconstrukt
15-02-2011, 23:04
Because it would be a logistical nightmare, the studio simply doesn't have enough staff to work on that many books at once and GW would go under due to lack of sales between editions? ;)

Sure they could, GW has more staff to work on projects (both in the studio and manufacturing) than a smaller company like Privateer press and they were able to do that very thing with the release of Warmachine MKII and Hordes Primal MKII. All the books are out and done with the miniatures either out for sale or on the schedule for release.

And ALL of the units/characters/models in every PP book is either in the process of being sculpted or done and scheduled to be released, unlike GW who has entries in codecies that still have not been made years after the books have been released.

GW could do it, but they have no real incentive to do it other than that last bit you mentioned.

IJW
15-02-2011, 23:43
I have no idea what size PP's design team are, so I can't make any comment on whether it's larger or smaller than GW's.

As far as PP books are concerned, all Warmachine and Hordes factions put together is less than either 40k or Warhammer alone. Then add LotR/WotR on top.

Inquisitor Kallus
16-02-2011, 00:22
I have no idea what size PP's design team are, so I can't make any comment on whether it's larger or smaller than GW's.

As far as PP books are concerned, all Warmachine and Hordes factions put together is less than either 40k or Warhammer alone. Then add LotR/WotR on top.


True, they dont just have one setting to work on, however I imagine there are a number of staff who only work on one paticular system, although I imagine that to not be so huge