PDA

View Full Version : Future style of the Chaos Space Marines?



Asher
05-02-2011, 17:09
After the somewhat dissapointing CSM codex there has been a lot of talk which direction an upcomming CSM codex should take rules and gameplay wise.

A subject far less looked upon is the question of miniatures and articstic style of the upcomming chaos marines.

Throughout the history of 40k the appearance of CSM has changed drastically from the organic looking monstrosities in RT to the largely common looking CSM of today.

A new CSM codex will eventuall be released; what style do you wish for?


Note that discussion of rules and gamepaly has already been covered in several (hundred) threads; please consult these for further discussion of that topic. Thanks!

NixonAsADaemonPrince
05-02-2011, 17:16
I would like all the specific cult marines in plastic with an old, baroque styling, like they are renegades from the Heresy itself.

I would also want the standard CSM box to have the options for plenty of Spikes and Mutations, but also to be a bit more modern in it's styling, like they are more recent turncoats. Maybe differentiate them from loyalist marines through detailing on the armour, like Chaos runes and leering faces. That way you create some interesting units with a mix of the cult and standard boxes.

Raptors should stay the same, just be made in plastic.

And I would love to see some Plastic Obliterators, just for the kit bashing potential.

PyroSikTh
05-02-2011, 17:18
Modelwise, I don't think the appearance will change that much, if at all. I think any new kits we'd get would be for new units introduced (or re-introduced if you know what I mean COUGHplaguebearers et alCOUGH), as well as possibly some new cult troops.

Plague Marines could do with being plastic, and there's the nice FW minis to take inspiration from looks-wise. Berzerkers are largely all right as they, but are starting to look their age somewhat. Noise Marines and Thousand Sons could do with being complete plastic kits rather than just "Add these metal components to the CSM sprues"

Plastic Obliterators and Raptors I reckon too, but other than that, I wouldn't expect any drastic changes in appearance.

TheRatsInTheWalls
05-02-2011, 17:35
Sadly, the chances of GW redoing the basic Chaos Marine sprues are slim. I'd like to see a wider mix of different armor marks throughout the range. Plastic cult marines could provide some bits to swap out and provide this effect, but they would probably be too god-specific for Undivided.
I think Slaanesh needs a bit of an aesthetic overhall; somewhere between this (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440108a&prodId=prod1550008) and this (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1090216). The current Noise Marines just look too much like regular marines. I'd also like to see a reduction in the Thousandsons aesthetic of the Tzeench cult marines, but only because I don't want cult marines to be from only one Legion.

Apart from these changes, I'm actually quite fond of the current range. I would hope they don't change too much in the next edition.

SamaNagol
05-02-2011, 18:41
I really dont think we will see another generic chaos dex. I have a firm belief we will see either dedicated powers, or Legion books next

PyroSikTh
05-02-2011, 18:51
but only because I don't want cult marines to be from only one Legion.

Kind of defeats the point of them being Cult Marines, doesn't it? ;)

Mega Nutz
05-02-2011, 19:27
I'd agree with NixonAsaDaemonPrince regarding newer marks of armour. I've mixed a few into the BL but it would be nice to see GW's interpretation!!

Dvora
05-02-2011, 20:08
I really dont think we will see another generic chaos dex. I have a firm belief we will see either dedicated powers, or Legion books next

As much as I would love to see this, I don't think it'll ever happen. It seems only codex marines get that treatment :mad:

Chem-Dog
05-02-2011, 20:11
there has been a lot of talk which direction an upcomming CSM codex should take rules and gameplay wise.

A small point, but the use of the word "upcomming" implies some kind of immediacy and there are, to my knowledge, no indications that anything CSM shaped is looming in our forseeable future.


What I would want from a CSM book? What most people want I suspect, cults well represented and a cult list for each god viable, more emphasis of the original traitors not the current renegades and possibly a nod to each of the Legions (A Special Character for each Legion isn't so bad, is it?).

Beyond that, new "chaos only" stuff, on the narrow end of that a chaos specific Land Raider Variant, on the wider end some more stuff that follows the design of the FW stuff like the Hellblade, Helltalon, Brass Scorpion and Blood Slaughterer.

And perhaps a move back to a look that's more in line with the old Jes Goodwin concepts or, at least, pre MkVI armour.

Radium
05-02-2011, 20:15
I'd love to see more insane chaos stuff, with leering faces and very baroque styled weapons and armour. Not so much mutations and spikes growing out of things, but the ancient evil look.

fruitystu
05-02-2011, 20:19
With regard to the current book, I believe Gav Thorpe has stated that when it was written, the plan was for this to be Vanilla Chaos, with additional books to satisfy those craving a more Godly experience.

But yeah, in the abscence of said additional books, I'd rather use the 4th Ed Chaos Book with some of the sillier stuff toned down (yes Iron Warriors, I'm looking at you!). It was way to powerful and open to abuse, but the current book (as was seemingly it's intent) is just a little too bland.

Dvora
05-02-2011, 20:23
I would love to see Dread claws, and an emphasis on the Legion and the Gods. I think Chaos undivided needs to have more flavor, I think Khorne needs to not be so prevalent. And what I mean by that, is sure here are noise marines, there are Thousand sons, but what you want is the berserkers. Why? They're plastic thats why! I mean Plague marines are tough as nails, but too expensive for most (At least around here anyways.). I would like sorcerers to have psychic powers that truly reflect the fact that they have no limits and are steeped into the forbidden arts. I would also like daemon engines and more access to daemonic weapons.

Oh, and one last thing. Greater Daemons? God specific please..not just a blanket, all those models have the same *******' stats.

theJ
05-02-2011, 20:32
I think my hopes can pretty much be summed up with the word "bits". Having a healthy supply of decaying bits, blood drenched bits, weirdo mutations, etc. would help a lot when trying to build up a "theme" within your army (remember - even undivided armies can have themes, and let's face it. Themes make armies funnier ^^).

Any plastics GW can throw out would be a bonus, but the first priority should be the cult marines.

I'd like to see more daemon engines - not just cuz' they're awesome, but also because they help differentiate the traitors from the loyalists (I can't take a chaos army consisting only of marines in rhinos backed up by preds and/or vindis seriously). EDIT: actually... make the unique stuff stretch over to wargear as well. Bolters and Chainweapons are all well and good, but you'd think CHAOS would be able to fit some slightly more fancy stuff for the champions than just copies of the imperial stuff.

Cultists, Traitor Guard and Beastmen would all be nice to have available, especially the first two. I'd imagine some incredible kits could be made out of any of them. (gors in space! :eek:)

EDIT2: also, I'm getting rather sick of the idols. I'd much prefer a return to the good ol' marks, running around with a couple giant sticks feels wrong, imo...

Luthor's Shadow
05-02-2011, 20:33
The thread is intended to speak of the model range and its design....Not rules. There is another thread right now discussing that...

Honestly I want Chaos Space Marines to have a mixture of either 'feral barbarians' like Space Wolves and power armor that just looks warped. There is a lot of potential with the modeling of the Chaos Space Marines and I recall the article that spoke about our current range. It was meant to give them an archiac feel that they were once Marines and had fallen, with some warping effects. I would love to see random 'warped armor' pieces, like a shoulder pad that has a spike growing through it or a piece of leg armor that looks 'refurbished' and cloaks...

Chaos Chosen need their own models and preferably in plastic. I hope they do not alter the current Lord and Terminator models, but if they do, God-Specific Lords would be a great idea.

Cult Marines should be in plastic and should not have just 'Death Guard', 'Emperor's Children', 'World Eater', and 'Thousand Son' distinctive parts and allow for slight conversions. Not every single Noise Marine, Plague Marine, Khorne Bezerker, and (going out on a real limb as its extremely argueable!) Thousand Sons are from their respective Legions...........So allow for this and if players want them to represent their respective Legion, use the stickers or the very nice Forgeworld plastics.

May Insanity Grace your Day

Luthor's Shadow

Vaktathi
05-02-2011, 20:39
Personally, I'm ok with the current CSM style for the most part, although I'd like to see some return to some of the more exotic visuals of RT with some things. Particularly the old RT/early 2E Tzeentch and Slaanesh models. The current "mutation" bitz just seem putzy. The current possessed and plastic DP also seem somewhat cartoony.

Though that said, I really like the tribal/ancient feel of the current CSM terminators a lot with their trophy racks and horns.

Overall? I think I'd like to see more of the CSM models become a bit more...hrm, I want to say Cthulu-ish but that's not really right. I'd like them to portray a sense of an ancient enemy borne from the Imperium's own excesses, something from an old, dark nightmare, with a dash of insanity thrown in. The only ones that do that well right now I think are the Chaos Terminators (and then only when painted darkly), but I think it could be better.

DarkstarSabre
05-02-2011, 20:49
Hmm.

Well, to be honest? I'd perhaps like more of a nod toward the 2nd edition metals. I'd like for there to be more exposed piping and wiring, some Mark VII armour variants and different helm patterns as well.

I'd appreciate there being variance in weapons - perhaps some more generic weapons that could be used to show 'liberated' or recently turned renegade equipment.

I'd like for plastic Cult Troops - similar to their FW cousins. Hell, go all out and give us 4 BT/DA style sprues, one for each god. Have a Khorne sprue with helm variants and weapon variants and perhaps some more ancient MK III and MK IV armour patterns. Have a Tzeentch sprue with blatantly showy sorcerer kit and baroque Thousand Sons style armour and robes. A Slaanesh sprue with weapon variants (slender swords, spears etc.), helm variants and Sonic Weapons. And a Nurgle sprue with bloated bodies, spike helms and more ornate armour variants.

Son of Morkai
05-02-2011, 22:38
The Possessed box already has the organic bits. It may not completely cover the need, but it's there for a starting point. Buy that, break it down, share the bits among your squads.

Older armor is neccessary. Put it out with a new Khornate box or a plastic Plague Marine box. Actually, the Plague Marine thing would be ideal. A box big enough to build 5 guys wearing mkII and mkIII armor. Include extra shoulder pads with Nurgle icons and blank ones. Extra torsos with distended guts and normal armour. That way the same box could be used to build iconic Plague Marines or normal looking mkII and mkIII armour. Wouldn't be any more over the top than the Wolf Pack sprues. Just torsos and shoulder pads instead of heads and beards.

I also want more horns. I want to be able to buy a box of Chaos Marines and build every guy with GIANT HORNS OF EVIL.

jack da greenskin
05-02-2011, 22:51
In terms of model range, I hope they made it as varied as possible. Chaos marines, chaos daemons, renegades, mutants, greater daemons, traitor guard, etc.

Garven Dreis
06-02-2011, 00:44
I also want more horns. I want to be able to buy a box of Chaos Marines and build every guy with GIANT HORNS OF EVIL.

I'd also like the option to not have giant horns of evil, as my Iron Warriors don't exactly care for LOTS OF HORNS ALL THE TIME. I know it's part of the profile, but I like variety.

DuskRaider
06-02-2011, 02:11
I would love to see Legion troops (and / or Cult Units) represented in Mk. II - Mk. VI armor, to represent how old they truly are. FW got the ball rolling, let's see GW keep it up. Keep the generic kit going for variation sake or for recent Renegades.
Depending on options, I'd love to see Traitor Guard kits, maybe FW kits just re-done in plastic. Maybe not plastic Raptors per-say, but at least their Jump Packs. Add them to Cult Units for more flavor. I could really care less about Obliterators, but I suppose throw some Oblit sprues in the Terminator box.
I'd LOVE to see something for Dark Mechanicus model-wise (obviously rules wise as well), but I think that's going to come down to FW more than anything. Cult sprues for Terminators would be nice, as well.

tezdal
06-02-2011, 02:35
I'd love to have plastic Cult terminator models!

The Orange
06-02-2011, 02:53
I'd just like to see the current CSM box re-sculpted. IMO the current box set of regular CSM looks dated and i never really liked the look of a lot of it's components, especially how the hands look like their wearing gloves instead of gauntlets. Even if it wasen't that far of a divergence from the current style I think a new set with more/better detail would greatly improve the army. As is, it's one of the reasons I stop myself from collecting any CSM.

Fallen DA
06-02-2011, 03:43
I'd personally like to see a bit of a return to the original RT Chaos Marines, with a mix of the older Armour styles mixed in. I think that a basic plastic kit could be brought up to scratch with add-ons, which would allow everyone to style their armies their own way. But as already stated, I won't hold my breath that'll be any time soon...:rolleyes:

bluenova
06-02-2011, 04:22
I always liked the concept of Nurgle, but not the bloated look of the models. I'd like to see the option for decay as dried up skull heads and withered limbs, not just fat blokes with pimples. Something towards the FW Renegade Militia Command Champion, but more ... undeady. Yeah, you can kit bash with some fantasy undead heads etc. but it would be nice to see armour that matched.

Oh, and some kidnapped slave-girls :shifty:

DarkMark
06-02-2011, 12:56
organic looking monstrosities[/SIZE]

That would be a very good starting point!

I'd like to see the basic marine sprue recut, ala Gors/ Ungors treatment, with sharper details and more options. A plastic dred, raptors, and cult troops would be desirable too.

I reckon GW will go more generic, for greater sales, with any new kits and leave Forgeworld to fit in the blanks.:)

Sithlord
06-02-2011, 13:11
my future wish list on CSM codex : HERETIC unit damn chaos space marine always use them why not put 'em on the list

Beppo1234
06-02-2011, 13:41
I think the current plastic range is pretty much up to par with current stuff... just a couple years older. Upgrades for the current boxs is what is needed mostly. they can come out as self contained kits for a couple years... then they can break down so that upgrade sprues can be available on their own. Basically, what they did with the dark angel stuff: self contained kits for a time, then only sell the upgrade sprue when hype of new release has worn off.

my wishlist: 1) New Plastic Dreadnaught, chaos dreadnaughts never really looked all that scary and chaosy to me. They are so static, and the weapon arms are pathetic. This one kit is probably the one that needs the most upgrading when the time comes. Just make it better than the current one, and I'll be happy.

2a)Terminator upgrade kit for the standard CSM terminator box. To allow for Obliterator and Cult terminator conversions. Seems the simplest solution. Cult terminators only really need a couple new bits added to the plastic CSMTs (ie. nurgle termies only need to have a 'glutton' front plate for the terminator body, Khorne and Tsons only need new heads etc.). Obliterators really only need a new front plate for the body, and new arms. I think an upgrade kit here could work quite well. (would contain enough bitz to upgrade 5 obliterators, or 5 cult terminators of any flavor)

2b)same deal for the PA CSMs, cult upgrade box. (in my mind, this box would contain enough bits to make a 10 man CSM squad into any cult, that doesn't have it's own box already.)

3)Jump/Assault infantry, have not yet been impressed by any released by GW for the CSMs, EVER. New plastics here would make me happy... if they're up to par with the current plastics (ie. the last year or two)

4)would love to have a landraider 'downgrade'... ie, upgrade bits to make it look oldschool (like the forgeworld kit).

5)new unit: essentially a drop pod, that you can put an entire army in. Anyone remember one of the original apocalipse battles in WD? Chaos vs. imperium, with the Warp gate that 100 demons could deploy from? I would love to see a model of a warp gate that can be dropped from orbit (like a drop pod), crash to the battlefield, and would act like a drop pod, but it would have access to reserves, so that any number, or any sized unit could deploy from it. Like a chaos fleet would fly by a planet, drop a number of these gates to the surface, and then from these gates pour the legions of chaos. Just seems to fit in my mind.

Ben
06-02-2011, 14:06
I'd like the Chaos range to be a bit more chaosy and less loyalists with slightly more skulls and spikes.

I'd like to see a couple of demon engines and dark mechanicus constructs.

I'd like to see a plastic dreadnought based on the forgeworld dreadnoughts.

I'd like to see a Dark Mechanicus robot.

I'd like to see Cult Terminators.

I'd like to see a veterans type box full of Mk 2-5 armour and bits.

Don't think it'll happen, but it would be great to see.

Keith_Lupton
06-02-2011, 20:08
4 things i would like to see:
Plastic Plague Marines
Plastic Dreadnought
Plastic Raptors
Plastic Heretics - Nice and cheap. Same stats as a guardsman. 6+ A.S because they dont wear any real armour. A rule around the idea of sacrificing a few models to the dark gods to boost your Commanders stats by D3 for remainder of the turn.

Perfect Organism
06-02-2011, 21:54
The one thing that strikes me as radically in need of revision is the style of the vehicles. In particular, the Land Raider looks far too much like a modern Imperial design with some spiky bits welded on (which isn't suprising, because that's what it is). A new kit styled like the FW Mk2 one with chaos-styled tracks and stuff would work well, I think.

I'm not a huge fan of the chunky, lumpy, bulging masses of tentacles and stuff look which CSM generally get. Something a little leaner and more wasted-away would work better for me. Especially for the Thousand Sons, which I think should have a kind of 'wraith' asthetic to them. Slaaneshi stuff could generally do with being a bit more elegant, in line with the new daemonettes.

In terms of army theme, I'd realy like to see space marines less emphasised and more options for mutants, cultists and so on. Helps distinguish them from the Imperials, apart from anything else.

kargenetic
06-02-2011, 22:55
I'd like older marks for PA, and special characters for each of the original Legions, the way C:SM does SCs for different chapters. That would streamline everything a great deal. Other than that, I like organics, spikes...and demon engines. Gotta love the demon engines.

theJ
06-02-2011, 23:04
agreed - daemon engines FTW. If they add more vehicles, I hope they're proper daemonic stuff rather than just more hijacked imperial trash.
Also - renegades are boring and are better represented by the standard SM 'dex than the Chaos 'dex anyway - bring back Legions!

Mannimarco
06-02-2011, 23:21
Until GW finally get around to releasing some LATD stuff and more daemon engines I strongly recommend looking at FW. A lot of the stuff we Chaos players wishlist for every other week already exists.

Mit Gas
06-02-2011, 23:30
LESS marines, MORE Chaos!

For me a Chaos army should be more like more like an imperial guard army with space marines rolled into one. Diverse - making use of what is avaible!

I don't give a damn about recent renegades who are basically just another Sm army, just "evil". I wanna field the old traitors, twisted humans, mutants, spawns and daemons all in one force, not a simple SM army with a few spikes on them.

So yeah, they need to give us just that.... cultists and weird, hellish things. And for the crybabies who just want evil marines make it so that recent turncoats can be represented well with the same codex unlike now where only flavorless turncoats can be fielded.

Wishing
06-02-2011, 23:43
Not every single Noise Marine, Plague Marine, Khorne Bezerker, and (going out on a real limb as its extremely argueable!) Thousand Sons are from their respective Legions.....

Amusing comment here, as you yourself point out... not every Thousand Sons marine is from the Thousand Sons legion? A bit of a terminology failure here due to the problem of there being no non-legion name for a tzeentch marine, like there is for the other three. A problem that presumably stems from the fact that the mark of tzeentch is a kinda non-entity, which I guess is appropriate to the lord of change and enigmas... just annoying.

As to the original question, I just really really want to see some good looking noise marines / slaaneshi marines in the same style as the old single-pose emperor's children model some day. That was a gorgeous chaos marine right there, but every single slaanesh marine model since has been hideous.

Mit Gas
06-02-2011, 23:59
Amusing comment here, as you yourself point out... not every Thousand Sons marine is from the Thousand Sons legion? A bit of a terminology failure here due to the problem of there being no non-legion name for a tzeentch marine, like there is for the other three. A problem that presumably stems from the fact that the mark of tzeentch is a kinda non-entity, which I guess is appropriate to the lord of change and enigmas... just annoying.

As to the original question, I just really really want to see some good looking noise marines / slaaneshi marines in the same style as the old single-pose emperor's children model some day. That was a gorgeous chaos marine right there, but every single slaanesh marine model since has been hideous.

Yeah, the new noise marines are really weak models. I think the TS bits are fine as they are and the Berzerkers are quite ok as well but the Plague Marines and Noise Marines are a disaster. Oh well, in 50 years Forgeworld will have made proper Noise marines and maybe even generic Tzeentch marines.

AlphariusOmegon20
07-02-2011, 01:12
A new kit styled like the FW Mk2 one with chaos-styled tracks

This right here has been a pet peeve of mine recently.

Why in the hell does our Chaos Land Raider have Imperial Eagles on it's tracks? Out of anything GW has done that "little" detail makes the least sense and marks it as pure laziness that they didn't model Chaos specific tracks, or at least generic tracks, like the Rhino has.

Garanaul the Black
07-02-2011, 02:14
I know Spawn 'just' got a kit and aren't likely to be touched for quite a while, but I think if they were going to be revamped, whomever sculpted the Hell Pit Abomination (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod900157a) model should be put in charge of them! Someones been watching John Carpenter's The Thing!




This right here has been a pet peeve of mine recently.

Why in the hell does our Chaos Land Raider have Imperial Eagles on it's tracks? Out of anything GW has done that "little" detail makes the least sense and marks it as pure laziness that they didn't model Chaos specific tracks, or at least generic tracks, like the Rhino has.


Mine as well but there are some really nice after market alternatives out there.


G

Lord Inquisitor
07-02-2011, 02:40
There are some good suggestions in this thread, most of my opinions have been touched upon already so briefly

- above all, I want to see more differentiation between chaos and imperial and that means more freakshow units, more daemon taint, more mutations, more CHAOS.
- new daemon engines (like the defiler/soulgrinder these could pave the way for more unbound daemon engines, which the daemons desperately need)
- plastic cults, obviously. Again, more freakshow. Noise marines should look like that illustration of the slaanesh champion with the boltgun and big eyes.
- a generic cultist unit. Ideally quite disheveled and pathetic looking, somewhere between slave and worshipped of the chaos marines.

Born Again
07-02-2011, 05:17
And for the crybabies who just want evil marines make it so that recent turncoats can be represented well with the same codex unlike now where only flavorless turncoats can be fielded.

No need for name calling. "Crybabies" seems a bit of an unnecessary term just because someone likes something you don't... especially seeing as it's usually a whinging Legions fanboy that starts these thread every other week.

vladsimpaler
07-02-2011, 05:36
I want a more organic feel to the Treacher Marines of Chaos.

The Rogue Trader models have always been the best Chaos models. Sure the new ones are more detailed but that's about it. The character of the models is SORELY lacking. The only thing preventing me from having an army full of the original RT marines is availability.

The current "feel" of Chaos, as many have said, is spikey. Lots of sharp corners and edges. That's good and all in moderation. Even some of the original Chaos marines had spikes. But you know what? They were also demented and mutated freaks. They were creepy. That's what I want the Marines to go for.

Like a daemonic combination of Hieronymus Bosch and HP Lovecraft. Something truly...chaotic.

I feel like Chaos has becoming more and more generic since 2nd edition, where the organic started leaving and the spikes and generic evil starting showing up.

Hopefully, of course, the next codex will reintroduce mutations, and some more randomness.

Mit Gas
07-02-2011, 11:48
No need for name calling. "Crybabies" seems a bit of an unnecessary term just because someone likes something you don't... especially seeing as it's usually a whinging Legions fanboy that starts these thread every other week.

Strangely I only see fans of the legions asking for appropriate rules while some hardcore renegades like Zweischneid are opposed to it and we aren't. We are crybabies as well, fair point mate, but at least we'd tolerate rules for the more recent renegades. :P

LokkoRex
07-02-2011, 12:16
older marks of armour
plastic cult boxes for each god
a sprue at least with stuff for each legion(this is where noise marine and rubric stuff would go, the cult boxes would contain mutations, marked armour and god-specific weapons)

ah, the joys of wishlisting.

ps: oh, and a vehicle upgrade that consist of more than spiky stuff and "evil" faces!

Born Again
07-02-2011, 14:01
Strangely I only see fans of the legions asking for appropriate rules while some hardcore renegades like Zweischneid are opposed to it and we aren't. We are crybabies as well, fair point mate, but at least we'd tolerate rules for the more recent renegades. :P

Zweischneid is the exception, not the rule :p Even most Renegade players concede the Legions play a big part and should have a heavier focus, while I've seen many Legion players shouting "Renegades OUT!". Divided like this, it's no wonder we haven't toppled the Corpse-God from his throne yet. Maybe it really WILL take Abaddon to unite all the forces of Chaos...

aka_mythos
07-02-2011, 15:22
I personally always liked GW's space crusade Chaos Marines. They aren't great minis but I thought they struck a good balance between the RT era and 2nd edition aesthetic, while maintaining a distinctly chaos, "we are not loyalist with spikes and arrow" -look.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/10/138245_sm-Alpha%20Legion%2C%20Chaos%20Space%20Marines%2C%20S pace%20Crusade.JPG (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/138245-Alpha%20Legion%2C%20Chaos%20Space%20Marines%2C%20S pace%20Crusade.html)
They clearly have solid bulky power armor, and yet it has an organic quality.

Mcbruce
07-02-2011, 15:59
I've got some of those somewhere. really nice models for the time especially the srg.

Mit Gas
07-02-2011, 16:05
Zweischneid is the exception, not the rule :p Even most Renegade players concede the Legions play a big part and should have a heavier focus, while I've seen many Legion players shouting "Renegades OUT!". Divided like this, it's no wonder we haven't toppled the Corpse-God from his throne yet. Maybe it really WILL take Abaddon to unite all the forces of Chaos...

I would never follow or ally myself with a bafoon like Abbadon. :mad:

hehe. No, ideally I'd like to see a codex that allowed for all kind of armies. They wouldn't need many special rules or equipment just make it workable. I wanna field my Thousand Sons with cultists (thrall wizards) and a few non-generic demons. And I'd like to see other legions as well. No need to drop renegades cause it's all easily workable in one list that would branch off into the various possible directions.

Undivided = Renegades, Black Legion

Undivided + special rules (+/- special units, unit selection maximums or wargear) = Night Lords, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors etc.

Mono-God forces = - minus various units, + special god-specific units, maybe 1 unit from another God (Tzeentch/Slaanesh and Nurgle/Khorne) allowed as allies but not more

It's all easily doable IMO. Recent renegades would have access to newer wargear and all god-specific normal CSM (say: 0-1 zerkers, noise marines, plague marines and ts), legions to weird demonic stuff, more spawns, special daemons e.g.

aka_mythos
07-02-2011, 16:09
I've got some of those somewhere. really nice models for the time especially the srg.
One thing I like about that sarge is that GW put texture to his shin guards, headdress and number of other places. Thats something I wish GW would toy around with on more chaos models. I like how these models left shoulder pads kinda have these gill like features where you can see conduits underneath and the more layerd look of older armor variants. Between Mk1-Mk3 armor there was chain textures and the detail of banded metal. Those are little things that older armor variant lovers would really love to see.

aka_mythos
07-02-2011, 16:36
...
Undivided = Renegades, Black Legion

Undivided + special rules (+/- special units, unit selection maximums or wargear) = Night Lords, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors etc.

Mono-God forces = - minus various units, + special god-specific units, maybe 1 unit from another God (Tzeentch/Slaanesh and Nurgle/Khorne) allowed as allies but not more

It's all easily doable IMO. Recent renegades would have access to newer wargear and all god-specific normal CSM (say: 0-1 zerkers, noise marines, plague marines and ts), legions to weird demonic stuff, more spawns, special daemons e.g.

When it comes to mono-god forces, the issue I have... are they going to be all that much different from someone who chooses only to use certain units, on their own?

With that last pargraph... rules and everything seems to quickly escalate from simple variation to trying to just squeeze multiple codices into one. I love legion armies, and I love seeing people play them, but making the sorts of variations that go back to the "way it was" is not only unlikely, its unimaginative, and flawed for the same reasons GW got rid of it in the first place.

It comes down to what fits not just physically in the codex but relatively within the same scope of other codices. Abstractly how many armies should there be in one codex?

One issue with chaos is that with cult specific armies it create effectively 5 distinct troop-elite pairings, 10 units. All 10 though distinctive by virtue of their flavor of chaos all effectively serve the same purpose and function in the army, just in different ways. While those units may need attention anything else done to the codex should steer clear of adding yet more variation to the basic troop-elite pairings of Chaos. Its like telling a big rig truck, it could some more wheels.

Lanparth
12-02-2011, 07:14
A Box Set for Chosen would be excellent imo. Good quality plastics which have as much cool chaos symbols and mutations and wargear as possible :)

Characters changing armies would be nice too. I'd love to have Chosen as Troops. I'd honestly build an entire Company of Great Crusade Word Bearers, attempting to destroy the Imperium still after 10,000 years of War! If Argel Tal survives the Heresy, model him up as a Daemon Prince and have him run the army ;)

TheMav80
13-02-2011, 01:59
When it comes to mono-god forces, the issue I have... are they going to be all that much different from someone who chooses only to use certain units, on their own?

With that last pargraph... rules and everything seems to quickly escalate from simple variation to trying to just squeeze multiple codices into one. I love legion armies, and I love seeing people play them, but making the sorts of variations that go back to the "way it was" is not only unlikely, its unimaginative, and flawed for the same reasons GW got rid of it in the first place.

It comes down to what fits not just physically in the codex but relatively within the same scope of other codices. Abstractly how many armies should there be in one codex?

One issue with chaos is that with cult specific armies it create effectively 5 distinct troop-elite pairings, 10 units. All 10 though distinctive by virtue of their flavor of chaos all effectively serve the same purpose and function in the army, just in different ways. While those units may need attention anything else done to the codex should steer clear of adding yet more variation to the basic troop-elite pairings of Chaos. Its like telling a big rig truck, it could some more wheels.

Those are pretty much my feelings as well. Something is going to have to give and you aren't going to get an infinite number of play styles out of one codex. You especially aren't going to get a huge number of good play styles out of one codex.

GW is going to have to decide how they want the CSM army to play on the table top, make sure there are 3 or so good variant lists, and that is all they can hope for.

Anyone who thinks one codex can adequately depict every Legion and warband out there, without taking a little bit of genericness, is deluding themselves.

Firmlog
13-02-2011, 02:43
Most of the new codex's allow for multiple armies.

Dark Angels: DA standard mix, Raven Wing (bike troop/speeder focus), Deathwing (terminator troops) and Raven-Death mix (bikes/termi-s troop focus on combined armes fast assault).

Sm. Biker marines (troops), outflanking marines(khan oriented flanking tac squads and bikes could be troops with bike captain), Standard codex astartes, Drop Pod army

Orks: Orks Mix, Goff nob (Nob troops), Horde (green tide), Cult of Speed(boyz in trucks/ bike troops), Badmoon (mega-nob troops heavy flash gitz). Possibly even lootas with reg boyz as troops choice.

Dark Eldar: Mix with or without raider swarm, Wyche cult, Hellion horde, Hemonculi/Grotesque/wrack with wracks as troops. Pure warrior shooty army.

Blood angels: standard mix. all jump pack troops, all death company, psyker swarm, Dreadnought spam

This list is by no means exhaustive, just what I thought about off hand. Most codex's seem to be able to field 4-5 different armies.

Technically the current codex can produce more (I think). but It can't really reproduce Iron Warriors, Alpha legion, Real god centric demon/marine mix. Night Lords without them being generic "different" looking models. While many may not like the current legion units all should be able to make and army, but cannot bring the specific (fluffy/ perhaps more powerfull) demons. I'm sure you can't bring Khorne riding juggernoughts but space wolves can bring thunderwolves and I think blood angels can out psyker thousand sons.

TheMav80
13-02-2011, 04:33
But even the Vanilla Marines can't represent every founding chapter well. Even ones that have Special Characters. You can't, for example, make an all jump infantry Raven Guard list. Even though the book has Shrike in it. You can't make an accurate Iron Hands list (though you can come closer with Space Wolves). The point is that one book can't equally represent every founding Chapter. It is silly to expect one Chaos Marine Codex to be able to do so as well.

I fully agree that there will (or at least should be) 3-4 good and varied themed builds available in any new CSM codex. Really the questions are:

What will they be?
and
What are you willing to cut out?

Excessus
13-02-2011, 09:52
In the 3.5 CSM codex, the legion and special character section took 25 pages. How many pages does the special character section of the vanilla codex take?

DeeKay
13-02-2011, 12:31
- above all, I want to see more differentiation between chaos and imperial and that means more freakshow units, more daemon taint, more mutations, more CHAOS.

Pretty much. Since Daemons got their own book (can't for the life of me think why) CSM lost a great deal of what made them play differently from loyalist marines. That issue would need to be resolved in a future book.


- new daemon engines (like the defiler/soulgrinder these could pave the way for more unbound daemon engines, which the daemons desperately need)

As a concept this works for me. I imagine GW would give things like this Tervigon status in terms of models though. i.e. no model for ages, if at all.


- plastic cults, obviously. Again, more freakshow. Noise marines should look like that illustration of the slaanesh champion with the boltgun and big eyes.

Read Liber Chaotica for a good idea of some of the cult marines (Nurgle ones don't feature). Actually, use Liber Chaotica within the design brief and you can't go too wrong.


- a generic cultist unit. Ideally quite disheveled and pathetic looking, somewhere between slave and worshipped of the chaos marines.[/COLOR]

I know people didn't want rules ideas but cultists are something I've been thinking about for a while. IMO options for cultists should include things like The Tyrant's Due rule (+1 cover save, D3 Cultists die for each successful save), Prayer Gangs (maybe sacrifice some to gain Daemons?) and Insurgents (smaller units with Infiltrate). As for the look, apart from the Insurgent idea, Lord Inquisitor hits it on the head.

Most of the things I would like to see have already been discussed, older marks of power armour being the best idea.

With regards,
Dan.

Born Again
13-02-2011, 13:07
Pretty much. Since Daemons got their own book (can't for the life of me think why) CSM lost a great deal of what made them play differently from loyalist marines. That issue would need to be resolved in a future book.

Daemons got their own book because Chaos Space Marines did too, and it was about time. Back in days long past, the Chaos army combined all the elements together: daemons, marines, cultists, the lot. They then shifted the focus of the army to be Chaos Marines with daemonic support. Now, I agree with the need of differentiating Chaos Marines from Imperials, and whether they should summon daemons that are the same as those in the daemons book is another discussion entirely, but the fact there are books which allow both to be explored to their fullest is a good thing.



As a concept this works for me. I imagine GW would give things like this Tervigon status in terms of models though. i.e. no model for ages, if at all.

The Tervigon has only existed in 40k for a year, and they (very reasonably with other releases last year) haven't done a Tyranid second wave yet. When it happens, there have been bits and pieces about the rumour mill of a Tervigon kit being in it, and I would be very surprised if it didn't turn out to be true.