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Forsak3n
07-02-2011, 06:18
im looking at starting a new army for 8th edition(havent played since 6th), Beastmen and OK are the armies that visually appeal to me. So my question is which should i choose?

To further clarify, which army would give me more options in army composition and still be able to get me some wins in a Tournement scene?

I want something hard hitting and somewhat tactical.

thanks :)

Dante blackfur
07-02-2011, 06:27
Neither are a good solid tournament armies. Sry to say, yes I know any army CAN win a tournament but most of the time you arnt going to win them with either army. if your set on those two though I would take Beastmen since they seem a little more competitive the Ogres. hope this helps! :)

Forsak3n
07-02-2011, 07:34
to expand on my army choices, im pretty much open to anything that gives me a wide variety of army lists(that can do well in a tournement setting).

Ultimate Life Form
07-02-2011, 09:12
to expand on my army choices, im pretty much open to anything that gives me a wide variety of army lists(that can do well in a tournement setting).

This is basically a trademark trait of Lizardmen. As for the original question, Dante summed it up pretty well. Beastmen are better but not good.

Satan
07-02-2011, 09:17
im looking at starting a new army for 8th edition(havent played since 6th), Beastmen and OK are the armies that visually appeal to me. So my question is which should i choose?

To further clarify, which army would give me more options in army composition and still be able to get me some wins in a Tournement scene?

I want something hard hitting and somewhat tactical.

thanks :)

Out of the options you've listed Beastmen is the best alternative. Do you play ETC?

If not I'd say your choices are limited to:

Daemons
Dark Elves

Runtherd
07-02-2011, 21:20
under the new rules, ogres are immense
they can fight in 2 ranks wit at least 3 attacks each
if deployed 6 wide, 3 ranks can attack
if you add in their bull charge impact hits and stomp attacks, thats a nasty amount of hits. not to mention everything causing fear and being really hard to kill
and gut magic is AWESOME!!!!!

herohammer
07-02-2011, 21:42
I would actually say ogres. That said however, Ogres are actually hit fairly hard by current ETC rules as you cannot take any large units due to the point cost cap preventing you from being able to use horde formation or deep steadfast buses.

The "underpowered" nature of ogres at present is highly suspect to me as I do just fine with them in a hard usually no-comp environment myself, particularly given that I didn't play for all of 7th edition. They are the only army that can really get away with heavy 1 and 2 dice spamming magic still because of grut's sickle and universally low casting values, they have the second to best anti-magic banner in the game, and they can hide characters in the second rank whenever they aren't in combat.

Rhamag
07-02-2011, 21:50
I vote Beastmen, as they have a wider range of units to chose from. You can play all-chariot, MSU disposables backed up with minotaur blocks and everything inbetween.

It's a tough choice though. Big ogre units look very cool IMO.

reddevil18
07-02-2011, 21:55
Id say ogers as they look better IMO and should be cheaper to do.

CaliforniaGamer
07-02-2011, 22:01
Friends dont let friends play Beastmen.

Competing clubs often give each other gifts of Beastmen regiments hoping to goad their enemies into starting a Beastmen army...

Bad children often get Beastmen battalion boxes at Christmas.

The Beastmen rulebook is often next the toliet above the tp in a GW retail shop. (true in my area)

Naxn
07-02-2011, 22:03
I'll say Beastmen but only because I've played Ogres in the past (keyword past).

Ogres have very few unit choices. They aren't as tough as they should be IMO. The trend with ogres seems to be big blocks, but you will have so few units that flank attacks against you will ruin your day. Smaller blocks just don't work. Scraplauncher if fun but a pain in the $^%& to assemble. Plus one your opponent figures out what bad-tempered is, it's easily taken out of the game. Gnoblars are nothing but a speed bump.

The best thing about ogres is it's a cheap army. 2 battalions and you're golden.

hashrat
07-02-2011, 22:15
Beastmen are nice imho, but missing some of the model range.
They offer about the same variety as DE, certainly a bonus.

Jind_Singh
07-02-2011, 22:25
I have a large Ogre army and have been dreaming about starting the Beastmen for a long time - and play against them enough to carry on wanting to do them!

Are they competitive?

Well both armies can be, but both require skill and finesse - Beastmen more so. In balanced Tournaments - were painting/comp scores come in - the Beastmen have the edge over the 2 armies.

Being viewed as universially weak, I find Beastmen Players get good comp scores - throw in a nice looking army and your on the way for a solid performance on the day.

Last tournament we played, 2500pts, the beastmen came 2nd behind my Greenskins - and he was the only army to beat me! He smashed aside a strong Warriors army and Dark Elves - both commanded by players that I rate high on skill level - so they were no easy wins!

My personal reasons for going Beastmen over Ogres is that after a while my ogre army starts getting 'same-ish'

It doesn't scale well, after 3k the list just repeats units. With Beastmen there are a LOT of viable builds, unit choices, you could happily amass a 5k army and have units all over the place!

Conversions/themes - well both armies do really well here so no clear winner

Ogres - cheaper to collect if you grab 2-3 battalion boxes

Ogres - most likely to get a new book sooner or later, Beastmen will be done now for quite a few years to come -but plus side is perhaps more waves of model releases sooner or later.

Models: Ogres for the most part have amazing models - though the scrap launcher is a pain in the bum - and I can almost see them make it plastic when they re-do the book. Beastmen have some truly amazing models and some just miss the mark! Minotaurs I didn't like so much until I saw them in person, same goes for Razorgor, but id you dont' like the models you need in the list it's an issue.

Not quite on the same page as most web bloggers with regards to beastmen book - I quite liked it!

CaliforniaGamer
07-02-2011, 22:39
Beastmen are nice imho, but missing some of the model range.


All of the missing models in the Beastmen range are large monsters which are horrendously overcosted and would never contribute to sales enough to recoup costs.

In addition, so many companies are coming out with wonderful Ghorgons I doubt a GW version would do much more than suck up shelf space.

Beastmen "missing models" have been spotted:
From Poland, the Ghorgon
http://www.maxmini.eu/forum/index.php?topic=433.msg3036#msg3036

From England, ALL the rare Beastmen choices:
http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/banelegions/

From Hong Kong:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WH-MPG-Converted-Un-Painted-Beast-Ghorgon-/200561886102?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb26b8396

http://cgi.ebay.com/WH-MPG-Suclpted-Painted-Beast-Cygor-/200542758229?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb147a555


I dont think there is even a chance for GW to make these, the already niche small market is well saturated with models from 2 continents.

ftayl5
08-02-2011, 09:23
A few months ago I would have been screaming for Ogres. But recently, they're just... boring. Your army, if competitive, is just going to be made up of heaps of plain old bulls. Leadbelchers generally don't do enough damage to be worth it, Ironguts are overpriced and the higher strength doesn't come into play much. Yhettees are overpriced, Gorgers are pretty bad because of steadfast and fighting in two ranks and free reforms in combat. Maneaters are awesome, but you could get more bulls for those points.
The list goes on, Bulls are simply better than everything else in the list. So they're a bit boring. And since you want an
...army would give me more options in army composition and still be able to get me some wins in a Tournement scene... I would strongly un-suggest Ogres. Atleast for now.

Beastmen however have many competitive builds and while not considered a particularly competitive army by most people, they can be very surprising - Bestigors are particularly brutal, but Gors when enhanced by magic are just as vicious. They look cool, if your'e looking for a fun game you can go with some Ambushers - much more variety than the Ogres IMO.
So I would go with Beastmen.

Drongol
08-02-2011, 12:46
A few months ago I would have been screaming for Ogres. But recently, they're just... boring.

If buying 5000 points worth of models for a 2500 point game is your thing (ie, options), then yes, Beastmen are better. The Ogre book is not particularly well-balanced internally, and "good" lists tend to take Bulls, IGs, Gnoblars, and Scraplaunchers, so yes, there's not a whole lot of variety.

However, to me, that point's entirely moot. I have perhaps 2800 points of models and I play 2500 points. Having the option to be able to take (read: buy) more models when I feel like it doesn't really appeal to me. Therefore, I love me my Ogres--I have an army that's lost one game in all of 8th and has my playgroup talking about how "cheesy" Ogres have become.

mrtn
08-02-2011, 13:23
If buying 5000 points worth of models for a 2500 point game is your thing (ie, options), then yes, Beastmen are better. The Ogre book is not particularly well-balanced internally, and "good" lists tend to take Bulls, IGs, Gnoblars, and Scraplaunchers, so yes, there's not a whole lot of variety.

However, to me, that point's entirely moot. I have perhaps 2800 points of models and I play 2500 points. Having the option to be able to take (read: buy) more models when I feel like it doesn't really appeal to me. Therefore, I love me my Ogres--I have an army that's lost one game in all of 8th and has my playgroup talking about how "cheesy" Ogres have become.
I don't really see why you'd need 2.5k extra beastmen. 1k maybe, but after that you're getting into the bad choices, like the Rares.

@Forsak3n: Beastmen can be one of the most hard hitting armies you'll find, Primal Fury on Bestigors is brutal and they'll eat through anything, like acid.

whitemagikmarker
08-02-2011, 13:45
"Friends dont let friends play Beastmen."

california gamer that just made my morning hahaha

im gonna say go with ogres, cus ogres are amazing, my main fantasy army.
u can do alot of detail cus the models are alot bigger and there are fewer of them, plus who can hate bullrhinox riders

Forsak3n
08-02-2011, 13:54
i am torn between the two, and now O&G is catching my eye with the pre-orders going up tomorrow. them and LM were the armies i use to play.

Memnos
08-02-2011, 14:04
To help you a bit, I thought I'd give a brief snippit on them and you can decide:

Orcs and Goblins - If you want to raise a tattered flag and engage in football hooliganism, then you're an Orc!
Beastmen - If you consider pooping on that tattered flag a major victory, then you're a Beastman!
Ogres - If you want to eat the flag that the Beastmen pooped on, then you're an Ogre!
Lizardmen - If you want to analyze the poop from the Ogre that is composed of the flag the Beastmen pooped on, then you're a Lizardman!

Earthbeard
08-02-2011, 17:42
Beastmen - Hoofs > moobs, but only just :P