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View Full Version : A new army to bring back the fun!



Faitfull
07-02-2011, 22:56
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to answer this question.

Secondly a little story from the days when i begin playing warhammer.

I renember a good friend trying to make me try the game with all the wird geeks. Not a prober thing to play, small plastic toy soldier to way to many money with the foolishness of being looked down apon. Well I told one of my other friends about this thing, he is a professional atlete with quite a few big titles. So I imagined he would set a stop the last thoughts of trying the game. However he just responded with "Do you wanna try my army out?" I was shoocked, and with no real piece to pull the offer down I found myself thinking. Ahh okay, no worries. After all i could just try it once and tell em that this was not me, way to geeky after all.
However I came and tryed the game. Me with 2000pts dwarfs vs. 2000pts Orcs NīGoblins. I tryed, wird wird game. So many strange rules. We came a few rounds in. This is okayyyy... but still geeky. My friend then shoocked all the customers when he littary roard "WAAAAARRRGGGG!!!!!" way to fun.. eh wait... just geeky
When the game ended before time, I had never tried before and I needed to get home i had to respond to the other geeks there. welll.... I ...... I need a army! where do I get one..... I was sold!

In the start it was all great fun, loved my highelves with all kind of funny and strange combinations together with a bunch of other great guys! A few other started a new little list so we could enjoy the fun of starting small armies while i was getting mine up. I had found my new second home and I loved everybit of it.

I have played my elves for a long time, and then I started empire to get a nice looking human all around army and so on...... however I miss the old fun!
The Highelves is not that fun like it once was for me, and for some strange reason the Empires was never that great hit I belived they should become.

So now I am thinking about starting a new army, to bring back the old great fun, to enjoy all the good old days again! But i do not know what army I should choose.

...... and i still do not know after a long time, so perhaps you can aid me in a few ideas.

A playstyle i fancy if possible is a combination of a force without to many troops, a 200+ figure army is just to much for me, i get easy tryed of pulling my troops back and out of figure cases.
A army that before all is mobile, that sizes the initative of the game
A army that require a bit of tactical mind to win with
A army that can close in and kill the enemy of in close combat, since I am more into fighting that shooting
Love fast cav, skirmishers, fliers and so on.
a army that can offer vararity

We normally play either 1000, 2250 and 2500 points battle where i am

I think I will leave this like this, and see what people says

Thanks in advance for your oppion or other usefull/fun comments:angel:

ooglatjama
07-02-2011, 23:03
Brettonians offer everything but the skirmishers.

Darkblade89
07-02-2011, 23:09
Well mate, it seems to me like you pretty much summed up the qualities of the Druchii! :)

When playing Dark Elves modelcount can be kept pretty low, they are elves so can be considered very mobile, they can really tear up an opponent in CC(hydra, eternal hatred rule, elite infantry,...) but on the other hand: some tactical play remains a necessity due to their elven "squishiness"(low T, but acces to cauldron of blood, some nice banners, powerful magic combos,...) ...

And then there are the skirmishing/fast cav/flyer choices, which imho aren't to be taken lightly.

Of course, you have already played HE, which might put you of 'another' elven army, but still, they have my vote :)

hope this helps in any way!

EDIT: my first post, and its promoting my own fav army... typical DE stuff right there!

Jind_Singh
07-02-2011, 23:10
Ah - if it's about fun then wait until March for the new Orcs and Goblins book - with plastic Savages looking like they are coming you can do a feral army with Spider Riders, Savages, some cool stuff like trolls/Giants - throw in a Wveryn, boar boyz - and your set! It's a fun, fun army - low model count as it'll be very expensive in points for O & G - and it's cool!

Never, ever, regretted my choice to move to O & G!

asphodel
07-02-2011, 23:16
I've got a bit of bias here, but Dark Elves have everything you asked for:
- The troop types are all more expensive than the average human soldier.
- Minimum movement is 5", can have Cold One Knights and Dark Riders to increase speed, but elves are among the fastest infantry.
- You're unlikely to win by charging blindly or just sitting back unless your opponent has a crap army or you get lucky; tactics are the name of the game with DE.
- Executioners, Witch Elves, Blackguard and Corsairds all have decent close combat hitting power, but none of them can really take a hit.
- Fast cav = Dark Riders; Skirmishers = Shades; Flyers = Harpies
- You've also got decent variety. Not on par with Orcs and Goblins or Empire, but more than the number two choice I'd recommend given what you're looking for; the Ogres.

Darkblade89
07-02-2011, 23:18
kinda kicking myself in the nuts with this, but Jind Singh (btw sir, you have the funniest avatar on this whole damn forum) might have a point.

O&G is probably one of the most 'remote' choices from the armies you have already played, and fits your description very well. Also, you get the added kick of buying/painting/playing with brand new released miniatures and codex...

life doesn't get much better than that :D

I know I couldn't resist if I didn't have my bank account locked till GK surface in april...

hashrat
08-02-2011, 00:21
What about Skaven? Just as random as Orcs, if not more so.
I would wait for the new book before deciding of course.

DE very varied and I'm positive Bretonnians can have Skirmishers. (Pegasus Knights, Bowmen

Jind_Singh
08-02-2011, 02:15
Skaven are awesome but TONS of models to paint! The new models are much easier/quicker to complete but it's still a large volume of figs - stick with Greenies!

Jind_Singh
08-02-2011, 02:26
Here is another reason for going with Greenskins:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247319

Lots of views, comments, but all boils down to the fact that Greenskins are da best!

You can totally play to all the points you mentioned in your 1st post, Greenskins can have speed, they do great up close and personal. they can shoot but would rather punch someone with their green fists, and low model count? Sure, why not! 10pt Savages, 13pt Black Orcs, Giants, Wyverns - you could have a VERY small model count army that would still do well!
Fast cav options by the fistful, and above all...

Fun, fun, fun! It's a super-dooper army! You'll be grinning from ear-to-ear for years to come, and as time goes on - well there is always the option of adding the little uns to the list!

DO IT! (oh - and LOTS of Chariots too - hows that for speed!)

(another oh! Requires thought to use, and to use well, so another one of your plus points!)

(One more OH! Just to say OH again!)

Fishslapper
08-02-2011, 02:29
You've summed up my gaming experience Army wise. I started with High Elves and I know what you mean, they are fun but very serious and Empire are fun too but can be a let down if you look to win the odd battle so you HAVE to do certain things, although I find you can do lots with them. They are quite a fun army too.

I'm starting with some Orcs (I got some Night Goblins, Boar Boyz, General and BSB and some fanatics from Wayland) because I have a similar style to you. There is a huge amount of choice, and having used a Giant, it's great fun! I look forward to the trolls and savage orcs too. I think with a lot of monsters and by taking the strong Units you can keep the model count low, but you can do lots of things and never play the same battle twice. That's what I'd reccomend since we have a shared Warhammer Heritage.

I was tempted by Ogres but I think there is less variety, the Scrap Launcher building but puts me off and they don't seem as fun as the ol' Orcs and Gobbos.

Faitfull
08-02-2011, 09:34
so far, thanks for all the suggestions and ideas

I quite agree that the dark elves are able to fit a fighting style of great interest, however as a High elf player, their tactics and style are a bit to close.

While the orcs and goblins are a interesting army, i can hardly see it like a elite force... arrent they more like "the horde"

2 armies i am surpriced not mentioned yet, is the wood elves and lizardmen, but having never played them, i do not know how they fit the bill

looking forward to input

Jind_Singh
08-02-2011, 10:36
Beauty of Greenskins is that no one expects them to be elite - until you let lose the goose!

Last tournament - Had 1700pts of O & G left vs Lizardment - he had

20 Saurus
18 Sarus
18 Saurs
20 Templegaurd with Slann
Engine of the Gods

My 20 Savage Orc Big Uns (A mighty 14pts a model) charged his 18 Sarus, wiped them out almost and ran them down. They then reformed next turn and carried on their charges.

I started with 1700pts of army
I finished with 1400pts of army

He had NOTHING except maybe a single unit of Saurus at half strength - his entire army destroyed!

VS Ogres - 1st round. We both start with 2000pts even - at end of game I got 1700pts, he is wiped out to last model!

Last game vs Daemons - we both have 1400pts - I savaged him and beat him by 400VPs - he just had 1 hearald and bloodcrushers, with a small unit of bloodletters

AND THESE GAMES WERE PLAYED USING PAINTED MODELS - SO I DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO MY TRUE ALL-STARS - THE BLACK ORCS!

I play High Elves a lot of the time and have seen 'elite' troops in action - nothing more fanciful than Black Orcs and Big Uns - Sure we have units of 40 to start off with - but it's all good - most High Elves take 40 Spearmen/Sea Guard these days.

If you want the straight fight then go Lizardmen - if you want to pull of immensely satisfying wins with an army that needs complete synergy to pull of wins - go Greenskins

2500pts - 40 Black Orcs, 40 Big Uns, 40 Night Goblins, Giant, Wolf chariot, Boar Chariot, 2 chukkas, 2 pump wagons - low model count, elite, fun, surprisingly deadly

chivalrous
08-02-2011, 11:17
Brettonians offer everything but the skirmishers.

Don't forget that one unit of Bowmen may be taken as skirmishers ;)

scarletsquig
08-02-2011, 14:48
Don't forget that one unit of Bowmen may be taken as skirmishers ;)

Pegasus Knights skirmish too.

Darkblade89
10-02-2011, 22:56
Even though I haven't played lizardmen myself; I do own the current codex and have been playing around with armylists quite a bit. personally I do not see them as a purely 'elite' army.
Yes, you can go for 3 saurusblocks + Slann + scar vet for 2000 points, but as Jind has very nicely pointed out; the same can be done with orcs (and probably to a better effect when you only consider 'fighting power'). I personally see Lizardmen as the supreme 'all-comers' army. They can do it all, but (imho) do not particularly excel at anything, bar perhaps magic dominating. consider shooting; a few large units of their skink skirmishers can really hurt just about anything with all those poisoned darts coming your way, they have the salamander/razordon hunting packs, the big bows on steggies,... All these are nice but ofc can't be compared to, say, concentrated dwarf or empire shooting. Same goes for CC; saurus and particularly temple guard can be rockhard troops, but it's not like a nice little unit of chosen won't take care of them in one or maybe two rounds of combat...

While i do not have that much insight on Wood Elves, I really must say that Jind has pulled me across to his side of the argument :D.

OnG really fit the bill of what you want for this next army... True; they do not fit the characteristic of "elite" Fluffwise, but 'in reality' you can really build quite elite armies!
I see it done a lot in my gaming circle of friends and I must say; those armies can really kick ass... (and I suspect will hurt even more with the new codex!!)

Torpedo Vegas
11-02-2011, 00:59
Ogres. Fast and you can't beat them when it comes to low model count. They are an almost all CC army. require a fair bit of finesse, and Forge World has experimental rules for Ogre cavalry. They even get skirmishers.

Preacher
11-02-2011, 14:46
2 armies i am surpriced not mentioned yet, is the wood elves and lizardmen, but having never played them, i do not know how they fit the bill

looking forward to input

I'm surprised no has mentioned Wood Elves either. They fit all of the requirements you listed.

-Skirmishers(Glade Guard Scouts, Dryads, Way Watchers, Wardancers)

-Fast Cav and Flyers(Glade Riders, War Hawk Riders, Great Eagles, Eagle or Dragon mounts for characters)

-Units that can fight in combat(Dryads, Treekin, Treeman, Wardancers, Wild Riders)

-Not a horde army pending on your build you can have a rather low model count in the army

-Tactical, there's a steep learning curve to playing Wood Elves, so its always a challenge


Usually, the biggest arguments against playing Wood Elves is that their book isn't as competitive or strong as the others anymore since 8th Edition came out. To a degree, its true. But Wood Elves are still an army that you can win with. I've been winning more then I have been losing with mine in 8th. In the Wood Elf Tactica thread there was someone who won a tournament with them.

I'm building a Lizardmen army currently and playing smaller games as get it together, hoping to get a 2500 point battle in soon!!

Some good summations of the army have already been stated. They are a very strong army, when supported by magic. A Slann Mage can dominate the magic phase like few others in the game. Couple that with pretty tough troops and they are a hard rock to shift.

Unless your playing an all skink army, you'll wind up with a decently low model count. Saurus and Temple are pricey options, add a Slann Mage and a Stegadon or two and points fill up fast.

The build I've decided on is much different from my WE, I run 2 large blocks of Saurus and big block of Temple Guard with a Slann. Thats really my main force. I use an Ancient Steg for flank support and a hammer unit, camo skinks and Salamanders for shooting support. And an engine of the Gods for its "natural" buffs" and another hammer unit. Helps me with the Magic phase as well.

I'm having fun with both armies, but in very different ways. Wood Elves is about the tactical challenge of combo charges, picking my fights wisely, getting rid of enemy units based on threats to army etc etc

Lizardmen are fun in the magic phase coming up with interesting ways to buff my units and hex the enemies for a favourable outcome. Watching a Stegadon mow into flank charges that I set up with other units, Salamanders dropping templates on units and chuckling because there are no partials.

This post got a lot longer then I realized, hope something came out of it.

medevilmike
12-02-2011, 00:17
I see the point of wood elves...and can vouch for them as being more competitive then anyone on the internet wants to admit but I wouldnt roll them as they really only have one or two total competitive builds and arent all that fun to play.
I would recomend beastmen, the have everything he wants on side of fast cav. Are easily the most fun army I have ever played in this game and are horribly challenging to play with. I know of 0 beastmen playes with a perfect win loss ratio. I am bias as it is my current army and has some very silly good/bad options in it.

Faitfull
17-02-2011, 08:47
A little update

A friend have leant me 1000pts Ogres, so I can see how they feel to play with

Another friendly guy at the gaming club have agreed to leant me a chaos army to try things out with...

Just wonder if woodelves are able to compete in close combat. Can they follow with the big cc armies.

Orcs... well havent seen the new army book yet, however it seems GW take the advantage to raise the price of the figures while comming with new rules for the green ones.

How does a army like Lizardmen fit in with it all. And what about a army like DoW?

Morkash
17-02-2011, 09:02
Well, in terms of variety and multiple different units, DoW even beat O&G and Empire.
They certainly have everything you want, and the army will not be that big either, because the Regiments of Renown are quite expensive (pointwise, but moneywise as well).

You even have the chance to pick from different armylists, if you do not play at your GW very often. Although playing DoWs in an official store can lead to some problems as far as I heard, because they are viewed by GW as dying/dead army and are no longer supported.
Basically, you have the chance to use either the official armylist from 2002/3, you can find it as pdf or in the Warhammer Chronicles 2/3 or you use a fanmade armybook like the one from Dogs of War Online. The latter one is really a funny and sophisticated book, problem is: It is not official. ;)

But the Dogs of War still stand if you want them to, the army has every unit available in the game, from giants to men in flying apparati and a Dragon Prince or one of the most lethal skirmishers in the game...
So, why not? :)

WarmbloodedLizard
17-02-2011, 09:33
A playstyle i fancy if possible is a combination of a force without to many troops, a 200+ figure army is just to much for me, i get easy tryed of pulling my troops back and out of figure cases.
A army that before all is mobile, that sizes the initative of the game
A army that require a bit of tactical mind to win with
A army that can close in and kill the enemy of in close combat, since I am more into fighting that shooting
Love fast cav, skirmishers, fliers and so on.
a army that can offer vararity

Lizardmen got it all.
Ogres don't have cav/flies but they are still pretty much what you want.
Wood Elves would probably be THE army for you, though.

all 3 are mainly mobile CC armies with low to medium number of models and quite a few different playstyles (unless you want to be uber competitive. but really, every warhammer army only has 1-2 uber-builds, so it's not like another army will give you more variety)

and all 3 are very different from HE and Empire.

Kellindel
17-02-2011, 13:23
2500pts - 40 Black Orcs, 40 Big Uns, 40 Night Goblins, Giant, Wolf chariot, Boar Chariot, 2 chukkas, 2 pump wagons - low model count, elite, fun, surprisingly deadly

What??? No Fanatics??? I don't play Orc n Goblins. I have dark and High elves, but I love watching Fanatics plow through my Cav units all the time.

Actually I don't love it but what the hey, it's funny to think of a little goblin spinning a cannonball on a chain taking out most of my Silver Helms or Dragon Knights.

My friend plays just Goblins. So in a way he gives both my armies the ability to have fear... so I can't complain when he takes out a unit or two..

You can consider Wood Elves, they have a lot of what you're looking for. But you're going to be Wood terrain dependant. It allows for many of your units to really shine.

All you skirmishers will be steadfast when in CC in a wood, so even though you'll have to make a roll off at the end of CC you'll at least do it at you base LD. You HAVE to keep the army moving at all times, and at least you can do it and not suffer a penalty to shoot.

But they are weak and unforgiving when you don't use them properly.

They are more expensive than either HE or DE so it will be less models to paint. Treekin will be you friend!!!!

Faitfull
17-02-2011, 17:29
"You even have the chance to pick from different armylists, if you do not play at your GW very often. Although playing DoWs in an official store can lead to some problems as far as I heard, because they are viewed by GW as dying/dead army and are no longer supported."

I live in denmark, first off Gw seems only wanting to supply figures here, nothing more. And besides who uses them anyway, it is the locals clubs that run things in cooperations here, inkluding the big turnaments! so no gw rulings here

Faitfull
19-02-2011, 15:48
how is the tomb kings???

Dark Aly
19-02-2011, 21:01
Wait till may (I think) before considering tomb kings. check the news and rumours forum to be sure. They probably won't have any (except carrion) skirmishers but they get fast cav. chariots, tomb scorpions and other entertaining units.

Bazzal
20-02-2011, 14:41
tomb kings are good but make better shooters than combat most the time for your requirements i would recomend beastmen :


A playstyle i fancy if possible is a combination of a force without to many troops, a 200+ figure army is just to much for me, i get easy tryed of pulling my troops back and out of figure cases.

using beastmen doesnt require alot of units i dont think iv even breached 100 at 3k


A army that before all is mobile, that sizes the initative of the game

M5 - M7 and has core chariots so plent of fast moving units


A army that require a bit of tactical mind to win with

with chariots n smaller units tactical thinking will always be needed for combing charges etc


A army that can close in and kill the enemy of in close combat, since I am more into fighting that shooting

theirs only 2 units in the whole army that can shoot so ticks tht box tho the raiders are 30pts for a unit of 5 guys so maybe take one or two, with minotaurs, ghorgons and basically an army designed for comabt


Love fast cav, skirmishers, fliers and so on.

fast cav fraid not but M7 monsters, centigors, chariots all make for a fast moving army. the raiders are skirmishers and you get harpies that can be upgraded to scout which is always fun


a army that can offer vararity

will def take a few games at least to figure out what you like and then what works for you. but least with this army you have ambushers so somthing no other army can offer making every game different

hope this is of some help to you :-)