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Purecarnagge
10-02-2011, 14:47
I have not played in 4-5 years and got asked to bring out the dwarfs as part of a smaller overall league. I guess 3-5 months ago they ran a 500pt on up escalation league. It did well, and now they are coming back in for league 2.

However I don't have the 75.00 or w/e it is to drop on the book until this weekend, and the first game is Sunday. I'm not looking for all points.

Is anyone here able to point me in a direction where they would touch on the general rules that have changed that directly effect dwarfs?

Next problem is finding a 1k army list...I typically played a 2250 point 2 units of hammers list.

Also, I can't remember what is the difference between a stone thrower and a grudgethrower and where do you get the grudgethrowers stats?

Ultimate Life Form
10-02-2011, 15:59
Is anyone here able to point me in a direction where they would touch on the general rules that have changed that directly effect dwarfs?


Mm, pretty much all of them sans the Magic section, though the biggest change is probably the (possibly) greatly increased charge range. Sadly I have neither the time nor the permit to reproduce the entire BRB here, but the answer to your questions lie within the pages of the rulebook.

As for army list, maybe give the army list forum a try but I'm not spoiling a secret here when I tell you that you need minimum 25% (so in this case 250pts) invested in Core, max 25% Lords, max 25% Heroes, max 25% Rare and max 50% special. Also you need 3+ units and a General and can't have more than 3 instances of the same Special and not more than 2 instances of the same Rare. Hope this helps.

Odin
10-02-2011, 16:29
One of the big benefits for Dwarfs is the ability to fight in 2 ranks and stepping to fill the gaps. That makes dwarfs with great weapons a rather tasty option (they'll be striking last most of the time anyway, so it's not much of a penalty).

Gunless Ganger
10-02-2011, 16:40
You could go to Heelanhammer and go back and find the episode where they talk about the 8th ed rules after having read the book in the stores.

I remember they had a really detailed breakdown of all the changes.

Haravikk
10-02-2011, 17:29
Supporting attacks and always striking in Initiative order (no going first on the charge) have made Great Weapons a pretty much mandatory choice in Dwarf armies now, as the damage you get from two ranks of Strength 5 or Strength 6 attacks is just horrible for your enemies. That doesn't mean that hand weapons and shields don't have a place on tar-pit units though, as the parry save is now a 6+ ward save rather than +2 to armour save (you still get the normal +1 though), which is more important than it sounds and makes for fairly a survivable unit.

You can no longer choose which weapons you use, so if you arm a unit with Great Weapons, then that's what it has to use, which is interesting because now Slayers are one of the few units that can choose their weapons like before (due to their Slayer Axes rule).

Steadfast means that any unit can take break tests like they're stubborn (with some slight differences), so long as they have more ranks than the biggest enemy unit in close combat with them. This, combined with step-up (don't lose return attacks unless your unit gets particularly small) means that combats are bloody, and can go on for awhile, so getting flank and rear charges to help units already in combat is more important than ever.

War Machines are more accurate, and ranged attacks are in two ranks so shooting is more deadly, though with faster overall movement you get less of it in typical games.

Purecarnagge
10-02-2011, 19:28
very helpful thank you.

kaulem
10-02-2011, 19:38
also note that if you have a "special" weapon (any non hand-weapon) you have to use it in HtH.

scarletsquig
10-02-2011, 19:44
The 2 best artillery builds are now:

Flaming cannon with rune of forging.
Grudge Thrower, with s5 and rune of accuracy.

Bolt Throwers and Organ Guns are still decent, flame cannons not so much..

Dwarf cannons now do d6 wounds instead of d3.

Purecarnagge
10-02-2011, 20:36
The 2 best artillery builds are now:

Flaming cannon with rune of forging. *****
Grudge Thrower, with s5 and rune of accuracy.

Bolt Throwers and Organ Guns are still decent, flame cannons not so much..******

Dwarf cannons now do d6 wounds instead of d3.


Leaves me a little confused here.

scarletsquig
10-02-2011, 20:46
By the first one, I mean, Cannon with rune of forging, and rune of burning, to make it flaming.

wyvirn
10-02-2011, 21:59
I wouldn't underestimate the organ gun, though. I think it is the best rare choice, by far. The new edition didn't really buff it as much as cannons or bolt throwers, but it didn't really need it. It still does 6+ Wounds reliably and laugh at your opponent's armor.
In the magic department, the new edition means that a runelord, MRo balance, and a anvil or runesmith will almost completely shut down your opponent's magic phase. Just watch out for the spells that test on I.

Grimstonefire
10-02-2011, 22:19
Although some of this was proven to be incorrect, you can get a good idea of most of the changes here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253845

Haravikk
11-02-2011, 11:16
Bolt Throwers and Organ Guns are still decent
I disagree on both points; Bolt Throwers right now are a bit pants, as you either need to buy an Engineer or field it near a Master Engineer for it to be much good. If you're planning on fielding a Master Engineer anyway (perhaps to support some Grudge Throwers) then a Bolt Thrower or two can be good as extra equipment for him, since he can correct their Ballistic Skill after you've rolled to hit, so if you've resolved all other machines that you're concerned about, then he can lend his expertise to a Bolt Thrower for the extra hits.
If you're not planning on taking a Master Engineer though then personally I wouldn't bother with a bolt thrower unless you just want to field the model because you have one; it's not a bad choice by any means, it's just not a great one right now.

Organ Guns however are better than ever; they can shoot with more freedom than before (True Line of Sight) and since they don't roll to hit they can shoot into buildings or through forests without any penalties at all. They'll do more damage overall than a cannon, and against higher Toughness targets are more economical and more accurate than a runic Grudge Thrower. A Grudge Thrower is generally better against hordes, but an Organ Gun won't exactly disappoint you, so for 120 points it's a solid choice against nearly every target, the only problem is range, but I've not found 24" range to be a problem in any game yet, except when it comes to shooting in turn 1 if you go first (or your enemy hasn't moved).

Jind_Singh
11-02-2011, 11:47
Well rather than rule changes here is some generic info:

The stunties of old were slow warriors marching up in formation and would normally get charged by the enemy. While they waited to get charged they shot things at people - crossbow bolts, black powder weapons, and then after they did get charged they would just hold the line and slowly wear the enemy from out under them. Lots of gadgets enabled the stunty to hold the line. It was a rare day, UNLESS YOU USED ANVILS, that you would charge the enemy, and even rarer days when you made it past the half way line.

To quote an old expression someone used in the store - I won't lose but I won't win - I'm here from the draw!

Today's world

The game as you know changed a lot from the olden days. Basic thing to remember is that overall it's the same kind of game - movement phase, magic phase, shooting phase, combat phase, but with changes inside those phases.

Here are some that will reall ymake your eyes pop as a stunty!

1) Movement - infantry can move through, even march, most types of terrian - so you can make your full 6" march through woods! So even though your short, you wont be crushed by having your beloved unit stuck in a wood for an entire game!
Charging - Dwarves can now CHARGE their enemy - and they do this really well! The old way of charging left - so your not just doing a 6" charge. You roll 2D6 and add 3" to the roll - so technically you can charge 15"! An average roll of 7 on 2D6 means your dudes will be able to charge 10" on average! WOW!
This means that in the first time of the games history we actually see mobile dwarfish lines that can VERY EFFECTIVELY take the fight to the enemy!

MAGIC

You now have one of the best magic defenses in the game! Each magic phase starts of with seeing how many power die are generated - the player rolls 2D6 (e.g. he rolls a 5, 3)

He has 8 power dice. You take the highest number of the 2D6 as your dispel die - in this case a 5. In addition being a Dwarf you have extra ways of generating dice, and you have runes that act as dispel scrolls - yours is the only army left in warhammer that can now take multiple dispel scrolls *well Daemons can kind of do this too, but they are deamons*
Means that your well protected - but be aware! The spells are MUCH more powerful and violent, and a lot of the nasty spells require your model makes an ini test or simply DIE, no saves of any kind!

SHOOTING

This is were you truly excel!

Before 10 Thunderers needed to be 10 wide to shoot all their guns or be on a hill. Now TWO RANKS can shoot their weapons - so your 10 thunderers can go 5 wide now and still all shoot! :D

You don't have to guess ANY ranges now - you can premeasure ANY TIME for ANY REASON - so this is awesome!

Subtle changes in how shooting modifiers/rules means it's easier to kill certain types of units - AND there are no more fiddly counting what is fully covered and partially covered by templates - even if a TINY part of a base is touched by said template, it's hit!

COMBAT

Too many changes to go into, main one is combat has brought 2 changes you need to worry about.

1) Just because you charge someone doesn't' mean you can hit them! Before whoever charged would hit first (unless you was a high elf), now it's like 40k - regardless of who charges who the strikes are down in order of initiative.
So why charge someone? Because it helps your combat res - you get a bonus for charging!
this means that the metagame for Dwarves has seen a shift to units of great weapons - if your going to strike last anyway thanks to tiny dwarven ini stats, you may as well go with a great weapon!

2) Steadfast - before if 5 Chaos Knights charged your 25 Warriors and killed say 8-10 warriors, your doomed! Unless you rolled REALLY low or double 1's you was running! NOW it's not about that - while it's important to win combats, if the your unit has MORE RANKS (not rank bonus, RANKS) than the enemy unit attacking it, it will be stubborn! Means UNMODIFIED leadership, if general is close by they use HIS UNMODIFIED leadership!

And so if you fail that your BSB will allow you to re-roll the test! Speaking of which you always want a thane BSB - BSB allows you to reroll ANY failed ld test!

There are so many more points - but we could sit here for hours and days - the above is to let you know you're in for a surprise - but try to take an army list of say 2-3 units of stunty with at LEAST 30 models per unit!

Quarrelers are amazing now as they come with crossbow, shield, and even great weapon option - very versatile!

Purecarnagge
14-02-2011, 17:18
Well league started up and I have dwarfs, Skaven HE, Daemons next to me. With WOC a little further out. Not sure if my warmachine should be a Cannon or a Organ gun or a grudgethrower.

that is my dilema currently. It cannot be changed once decided until my army gets larger.

TwoBitWriter
14-02-2011, 17:54
The Grudgethrower would be great against the T3 Skaven and High Elves. For the Daemons you would be better off with the Organ Gun or the Cannon. The Organ can cover a flank nicely and wipe out HE Cavalry or Daemon Hounds but isn't as useful against Skaven blocks.

Really, each war machine can counter different elements of each of your opposing armies.

On the whole, I think Grudgethrower is your best bet if you can only take one. If you put on a Rune of Penetrating or two it can do well against all three of the armies.