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View Full Version : New to WoC (my first impressions) need help



scar face
11-02-2011, 16:17
After reading through the WoC book (briefly), I've come to these immediate assumptions. Please review and tell me if these assumptions are true are am I missing something.

Special characters: Not really worth taking. Apart from Vilitch. Is he still as good in 8th and does he justify his points cost- only a few points more expensive than a sorcerer lord on disc.

Lord of chaos: Not really going to be used for me- the sorcerer lord will take up the lord percentage.

Sorcerer lord: I'm torn between this guy on a disc with a few upgrades or vilitch- the speed and flexibility of the disc rider will probably win me over though.

Daemon prince: Although good in combat and with spells, he has no save, and is v. expensive, so I wont be taking one.

Sorcerer: I'll definately be taking one of these, but I dont know whether to do another tzeentch one or a death one.

Exalted hero: Ideally, I'd prefer a hero on juggernaught, but i've heard that a BSB for chaos is a no-brainer.

Chaos warhounds: What's so good about these?

Marauders: The ace in the hole for chaos it seems. Ranked up with khorne and great weps seem to be very strong.

Chaos Warriors: I prefer them over marauders, but due to their hefty points cost, I'll only take a couple of small units. What mark is best for these?

Marauder horsemen: In 8th they wont be used by me much

Chosen: these look prety good- will the random eye of the gods justufy the extra points cost though?

Knights: Definately taking 2 units of these. No question. Is it worth taking a mark apart from tzeentch on these though?

Forsaken: Not sure about these. Seem a bit too random for a reliable army.

Chariot: I've not used chariots before, so don't really know about this one.

Ogres: For just over the points of 2 chaos warriros, these seem pretty good! do kinghts overshadow them though?

Spawn: Not really much use...

Warshine: This is something of an oddity to me. People say they are mandatory, and for the cheap points cost, they look it. Are they worth taking above a hellcannon and would two be better than one.

Hellcannon: This, regretably seems like an expensive stone thrower to me? Why would you really need one?

Shaggoth: A really beautiful model IMO, but with only a 5+ save, would probably die too quickly.




I've highlighted the bits in yellow that are my main queries- please answer them :)

cheers,

scar

javgoro
11-02-2011, 17:28
The general consensus tends to be:



Special characters: Not really worth taking. Apart from Vilitch. Is he still as good in 8th and does he justify his points cost- only a few points more expensive than a sorcerer lord on disc.


Some special characters are really good. Vilitch is good for his points, but a tooled up sorc lord on a disk with a 3+ ward from MoT plus generic talismans tends to be better. In particular, Throgg is very cheap for what he does, if you use any trolls, and Galrauch packs a huge punch, but is very expensive to field.



Lord of chaos: Not really going to be used for me- the sorcerer lord will take up the lord percentage.

They can be useful, but in general aren't as good as a sorc lord, that much is true. I'm partial to chaos lords of Khorne riding juggernauts, but that's a personal preference.



Sorcerer lord: I'm torn between this guy on a disc with a few upgrades or vilitch- the speed and flexibility of the disc rider will probably win me over though.

See above for vilitch vs. sorc lord.



Daemon prince: Although good in combat and with spells, he has no save, and is v. expensive, so I wont be taking one.

The daemon prince sucks for his points. He can't break units easily, isn't killy enough for its cost, and isn't survivable enough.



Sorcerer: I'll definately be taking one of these, but I dont know whether to do another tzeentch one or a death one.

It depends a lot on your army composition. Keep in mind that having too many casters is not a good idea in 8th.



Exalted hero: Ideally, I'd prefer a hero on juggernaught, but i've heard that a BSB for chaos is a no-brainer.

A BSB is near mandatory, yes. That doesn't mean it's any less killy, given their impressive statline.



Chaos warhounds: What's so good about these?

Nothing special anymore, but they're still a cheap and fast unit. They have their uses.



Marauders: The ace in the hole for chaos it seems. Ranked up with khorne and great weps seem to be very strong.

Indeed they are. Given their base cost (very, very low) you can have some hordes of chaos marauders dealing some crazy amount of damage, specially if they're khornate.



Chaos Warriors: I prefer them over marauders, but due to their hefty points cost, I'll only take a couple of small units. What mark is best for these?

Chaos warriors are one of the best infantry units. The most common setups are khorne warriors with halberds and shields (meatgrinder unit) and tzeentch warriors with HW + Shield as an anvil.



Marauder horsemen: In 8th they wont be used by me much

They aren't all that good, no. They took a big hit from the changes to combat in 8th.



Chosen: these look prety good- will the random eye of the gods justufy the extra points cost though?

They tend to be subpar compared to warriors, at least as far as their points cost goes. However, a deathstar unit of tzeentch warriors with halberds and the banner of rage, plus two warshrines can quickly become a force to be reckoned with, due to 3+ ward, stubborn, frenzy, high attacks and statline.



Knights: Definately taking 2 units of these. No question. Is it worth taking a mark apart from tzeentch on these though?

Taking 2 units of knights is a bad choice these days. Usually, 6 knights of khorne are more than enough. They're very expensive and have to rely on their kills to break units, which means you don't want to spend too much on them.



Forsaken: Not sure about these. Seem a bit too random for a reliable army.

They suck, period.



Chariot: I've not used chariots before, so don't really know about this one.

They are very cool, but not that great. I guess they could be worth a shot.



Ogres: For just over the points of 2 chaos warriros, these seem pretty good! do kinghts overshadow them though?

Ogres are very good, but trolls are probably better. They do perform (for their points) better than knights. Keep in mind they get their full attacks if ranked in rows of 3 (or 3 attacks on the second row if you give them the MoK).



Spawn: Not really much use...

Nothing to write home about, no. Still useful as a diversion or distraction.



Warshine: This is something of an oddity to me. People say they are mandatory, and for the cheap points cost, they look it. Are they worth taking above a hellcannon and would two be better than one.

Warshrine are decent, but a bit of an oddity, as you say. It depends a lot on your army. They're not better than hellcannons.



Hellcannon: This, regretably seems like an expensive stone thrower to me? Why would you really need one?

Because of the high base damage. Because you can't otherwise shoot. Because you will be facing large blocks of infantry, and panicking them is a recipe for winning. Because it's still a monster in close combat, with its high attacks and thunderstomp. Because it's a cool model. Seriously, hellcannons are ace in 8th.



Shaggoth: A really beautiful model IMO, but with only a 5+ save, would probably die too quickly.

Your impression would be correct. Also, you're forgetting trolls, which are now pretty awesome thanks to BSB's letting them reroll stupidity, and your general (or throgg) giving them their Ld means they'll pass it most of the times. Add stomp and a higher base S than ogres to the mix, and they're close contenders in terms of usefulness.

There's a more detailed analysis of all this in the tactica: warriors of chaos in the tactics forum which is very well done, and far more extensive than all of this, so I suggest you check it out.

scar face
11-02-2011, 17:41
Thanks for the answer- it was pretty perfect for explaning my queries :)

scar

BigbyWolf
11-02-2011, 17:49
A couple of notes, just to correct things...

A Daemon Prince has a 5+ Ward Save, and a Shaggoth has an overall save of 4+.

As for queries with regards to hounds, horsemen and spawns. These are pretty useful to distract and harry opponents, being as they are relatively cheap (points-wise) in an army where units are usually at a premium.

Dux
11-02-2011, 18:06
hounds and horsemen are good warmachine hunters, because most of the enemys magic shooting will be directed at the warriors/marauders/chosens/knights. In addition to that they are cheap units to deploy first, allowing you to see where your enemy deploys his units.

horsemen work good as a taxi for exalted on boobworm (depending on enemy), as both are light cavalry. the danger of being on the receiving end of a firstroundcharge isn't that comforting.

I often field a unit of around 20 Chosen with halberds, MoT, Banner of Rage, favor of the gods in combination with a warshrine. In addition to that i have a unit of 20 anvil-warriors, 40 GW-marauders, 10 horsemen, 2*5 hounds, hellcanon, bsb MoT, exalted and a lvl4. everything except marauders and horsemen has MoT. thats around 2.5k points
The chosen normally have 3++ and stuborn after 2 rounds.

works quite well against most enemys. I have yet to find an army i can't win against.

scar face
11-02-2011, 18:11
Just to clarify, If I didn't want to take throgg, how would I make it so my trolls dont fail to stupidity? Does the general's leadership still go to models within 12" (18" if he's on the disc)

scar

javgoro
11-02-2011, 18:14
Just to clarify, If I didn't want to take throgg, how would I make it so my trolls dont fail to stupidity? Does the general's leadership still go to models within 12" (18" if he's on the disc)

scar

Keep your general and BSB close. Rerolling on 8's or 9's should be easy to pass.