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srgt. gak
13-02-2011, 04:25
So for the past year and a half ive been so busy with school and work that i havent had a moment to hobby or game. For the first couple months this really bothered me but as i went on i gradually just forgot about my 40k stuff all together until one day the fact that i hadnt even touched a model in a long time hit me...literally... my entire black library collect fell off its shelf above my bed while i was sleeping in one morning.

So as i sat there surrounded by my books, i started going through them and i gradually i got to thinking about my beloved guard and how i hadnt played in forever. The next week i drove down to the nearest gaming store me (20 miles away) to get a game in....only to find it had closed down 2 years ago due to the owner not paying his rent. SO i thought to my self, no biggie ill just go to the the place i normally went to but i read on their website they had changed the nights around so i had to wait another week.

So 2 weeks later than id have liked i walked in to the store with my guard army ready to play. But 40k was not the game of choice anymore...in fact it was almost not even there. The store apparently had had a falling out with gw. Due to the stores ususally great sales and game attendance, gw decided to pull their product out of the store and try and build a hobby center in the area, but pulled out for some unknown reason.

In the wake of this fiasco, everyone there but 2 guys switched over to privateer press, flames of war, and i shudder to say... pokemon. So after wading through these guys to the back table where i could just barely make out the shape of a grey landraider and stopped when i saw who the last 2 gw fans were. The rules lawyer and the hobby lawyer. These are probably my 2 least favorite people on the face of the planet for obvious reasons.

So i about faced and went to talk to an old buddy of mine who works at the store. He said that these 2 guys since id been gone had basically run the majority of the players into pp's arms with pointless arguments and conversations over stats and wyswyg, things like a scratch built ogryn being cheating.

While we were talking a kid about 12 walked with his dad and was walking around all stary eyed as most people like us do when they stumble in on table top gaming. He started with the warmachine tables, just asking questions and watching them play as they told him about what a warjack was and gave him the 30 second elevator ride pitch of the fluff of warmachine. Eventually he wandered over to frick and frack and asked them what they where playing and what it was like. Unlike the pp guys, these 2 numbnuts went on and on about stats and rules. Then the kid asked him what his army was like and from there the convo went a little like this

kid: what are these

r.l.: these are space wolves

kid: why do you play them

r.l: theyre better

kid: than?

r.l: other armies

kid: how?

r.l.: theyre newer

kid:ohh...is he playing space wolves too?

r.l: nooo...hes playing blood angles

kid: they look the same

Its at this point took a good look at the table...they where both completely unpainted and unprimed...and worse yet...lacking character and fluff of any kind... no special ba or sw icons, no conversions... just strait vanilla with added special units. It appeared as though these 2 could at any point take their army, buy the cool new codex special stuff,
and switch between any marine army they wanted.


Now my question to you is what the heck has happened since i left? is this just this store and these guys? or has the rest of the world fallen into this trap of just playing the latest thing and trading fluff for stats. Why when asked what makes a space wolfs better would you say they have better stats and are newer instead of launching into an excited tale about the fang, and tales of space vikings in battle and such. Now i know its always been a chore to get people to paint sometimes, but you could always tell a space wolf grey hunter from a ultramarines tac sqaud from a blood angle tac marine.

This is not the hobby i love. I loved the story and fluff of warhammer 40k, thats why i picked it as my game of choice. I love painting and collecting a force that has character. I love making conversions and working on models for hours. That ogryn i spoke of earlier, that was my model i had painstakingly converted from a ogre bull to look like a admech preator... i did that only to have the damn rules lawyer complain that he couldn't play against me because "i could have modeled for advantage and he was not going to play against some one who would cheat"

Is this what our hobby is now? please god tell me no, and its just these two stores, because if so i might as well just play xbox and get my 40k hit by reading and stop wasting money on models ill never get to game with.

-Loki-
13-02-2011, 04:31
The great thing about this hobby is you don't have to play against people you don't want to.

Want to play the game for fun, converting stuff, with other people who are into the background more than just winning? Find them and play against those people.

Malphax
13-02-2011, 04:33
The local metagame makes or breaks the hobby. If you don't have anyone decent to play with, the whole thing just sort of fizzles out. It's not very fair to judge the entire hobby by the two idjits that are left over, that nobody liked back when there WERE people to play with.

I've found internet forums to have a higher concentration of rules-lawyering and codex finagling than normal in-store games, so your results to this question may be skewed.

Ultimately it's the *people* that make this game. So I would suggest to forget that store, and find new people, or try to reconnect with the old people that weren't ridiculous.

ObiWan
13-02-2011, 04:34
Well you sound like you've got a problem since the stores close to you are that bad, but in general I don't think thats the state of the hobby...

Chem-Dog
13-02-2011, 04:49
The local metagame makes or breaks the hobby

Too true.
I have the fortunate situation of being planted firmly between two GW stores (geographically speaking) and the difference between the two is astounding.

If your local shop has a lack of 40K game being played, step up, offer the Warmachine players an alternative opponant to Ig and Ook, I doubt they have totally dropped their collections and have simply tired of tolerating the numbnuts.

But do have a look at Warmachine, it's pretty fun and way cheaper than 40K to get a starter force together. And the babes are WAY hotter.:shifty:

XmarvX
13-02-2011, 05:06
Aww i remember 'those' guys... I've been away from the hobby for quite a few more years than yourself, but am planning on a heroic return, with a force of epic shiny fluffness! i just hope that once iv built it i dont encounter the problem you just described.
After a quick tester of the local gw store environment the other day, I was satisfied, but I did only drop in for 10minutes and had a chat with the guy behind the till (happened to be the manager) and a couple of the customers who came by during those 10minutes.

I dont think those two anti-social style players in your area are representative of most enthusiasts? I really hope its not. Wishing you luck on finding some real hobby'ists in your area :)

Friedrich von Offenbach
13-02-2011, 06:01
Your story makes me incredibly depressed, I'm going to go hang myself now before this happens to me.

PyroSikTh
13-02-2011, 11:47
The sad thing is is that you usually get 1 or 2 of each of those stereotypes at almost every game store. At my local, we're all fairly relaxed guys apart from one called Cheating James...who earned his name with good reason. There will always be the fluff nuts and the rules lawyers. The idea is to just ignore them. Play with who you're comfortable with.

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
13-02-2011, 16:01
I can't wait to get stationed in an area where 2k+ games are not the norm. It will be splendid.

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
13-02-2011, 18:09
40k has made a bit of a comeback by me. When 8th Edition came out for Fantasy, it died off a little, but we've got a 16 person 40k campaign running now.

It's a very relaxed crowd to thankfully. I am not saying we don't get the occasional power gaming ZOMG!!! my army R0><0Rs!, but I think the older crowd and casual atmosphere helps to keep it toned down.

TheWarmaster
13-02-2011, 18:34
Luckily my local club started tale of gamers, with the point of bringing 40k back to the scene; everybody was playing Spessh muhreens (unpainted, like in the op) but now, we have Guard, DE, Daemons and CSM. Possibly Tau too.
E: What I tried to say is, no, not everyone is a rules-lawyering SoB.

LonelyPath
13-02-2011, 23:06
srgt. gak, I occasionally run into players like the 2 you described, they are indeed a sad state of affairs no matter how few they are in number. I've seen players leave the hobby due to such people, but, thankfully they are a rare breed and few in number. I suggest asking about if any of the other gamers still play 40k in other environments, or if there are clubs in your area, in my experience, they tend to attract less of the rules/hobby lawyers.

I play locally and in a couple of other places within 30 or so miles of me and it's always good fun, I hope you find another venue. Failing that, try and get together with othes and start up a club or game nights at someones place.

Eldoriath
13-02-2011, 23:59
Sounds like you have had really bad luck. Around here people play for fun and with the army they like rather then the "beztezteztz armiyyy ehhvvaaarrrr!".

Eldartank
14-02-2011, 00:27
There is a special place in hell reserved for rules lawyers and fluff nazis, right next to the pedophiles, politicians and people who use cell phones in movie theaters.

Okay, maybe not, but rules lawyers and fluff nazis really are annoying, aren't they? ;) The best I can offer is to follow the suggestion of the others here, and do things like look up some of the other players you knew, or maybe look for a gaming club or another store somewhere. ALL of the hobby hasn't deteriorated like in your area, so I wish you the best of luck.

Vaktathi
14-02-2011, 00:28
With regards to the players dispositions, almost every store has at least one "TFG", and its up to the playerbase to police them or not. Sometimes they shape up, sometimes they get run out, and sometimes they take over the place. My current store really only has one "TFG", but he doesn't play, he just shows up and forces his advice on people.

Stores have a hard time policing such players. The players themselves have to either make it extremely socially uncomfortable for them or outright get them to stop, or catch them in something that the store can act on. If not then they can and will take over and kill the playerbase.



As to the particular army issue you encountered has become *very* prevalent of late. It's a side affect of having too many SM books. These armies are just too easy to switch between and have their own books simply for the sake of having them rather than actually being different enough to warrant their own books.

The problem is that which ever is newest tends to be more powerful, so those that haven't built their army is exactly say Ultramarines or Blood Angels colors have an incentive to switch and all the opportunity in the world to do so. By having so many books for what are in effect slight variants of each other (BA's and C:SM outright share 80% of the same units, and most of the remaining 20% are variants on other existing units) it makes sticking to one army very hard when you can move to the new, better army and have to swap out few or no models and have a more playable army. It cheapens the loyalty factor by making it exceedingly easy to switch armies, especially as there is very little that any particular SM army loses access to when switching that they can't easily "counts-as".

Unless one goes out and very specifically makes their army the one that is on the cover complete with paintjob and iconography, most players won't even think of arguing "that's not Space Marine army X, that should be SM army Y". It's easy to switch, and there's little reason not to from a competitive standpoint. It doesn't help that there are some books that you can make a legitimate claim portray some armies better (e.g. say Night Lords and BA or Iron Warriors and C:SM, etc) and that many websites have all sorts of articles on "counts-as" armies using the latest and greatest rules (*cough* BoLS *cough*)


That said, many players still do take immense pride in their own armies and long standing loyalty to a particular faction. It's not dead by any means, just not universal.

easternheretic
14-02-2011, 02:28
Is this what our hobby is now? please god tell me no, and its just these two stores, because if so i might as well just play xbox and get my 40k hit by reading and stop wasting money on models ill never get to game with.

I feel you man.

In regards to the question, "Is this what our hobby is now?" in the context of your original post, I'm more inclined to say yes than no. The problem here is that nothing in life is ever just "black or white" as the saying goes, always shades of gray. An interesting and rather accurate way to describe it with more than the usual meanings since a lot of us who are in this hobby are painters! So a simple yes and no is rather inaccurate.

Anyway to cut a long story short, black and white paints when mixed, make gray. The more white, a lighter shade of gray, the more black, a darker shade.

Lets say being a fluff/rules nazi is chaos black paint, and all around pleasant gamer (how ever you wish to define it, just less the abovementioned to traits) is skull white paint. The state of the hobby is a rather dark gray at the moment.

Like what the rest of the other chaps have pointed out, the best bet is to find like minded fellows to game with. Might be an easy or tough proposition to fulfill depending on what is available to you.

I'll just chime in and say, hang in there! You'll be able to find a group of like minded fellows eventually. I wish you luck and a speedy resolution. This hobby is just to fun to give up on imho. Not to mention the amount of $ that we all have sunk into it!

Cheers!