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View Full Version : Would you refuse to play against someone, just because of their army composistion?



scar face
13-02-2011, 15:49
I've noticed lots of people saying this ne way or the other. Isn't it just a bit sad that you're letting someone who may actually be quite nice get in your way of having a game?

I know people who field nob lists, nidzilla lists etc and they're really nice guys...


what do you think?

scar

Still Standing
13-02-2011, 15:52
I may ask to redesign my list, especially if I am facing something like an armoured company, but I wouldn't refuse. Well, except perhaps against an armoured company, if I had no antitank! :)

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
13-02-2011, 15:55
I'll play it at least once. If I find it to be to hideously one-sided, there's not really a point in playing it again unless I can think of a new strategy to field against it.

Ville
13-02-2011, 16:10
Because of army composition? No. I don't expect every game I play to be an equal nail-bitingly exciting affair.

But I don't play against jerks, even if their army list just won a Fluff Oscar or something...

Mjod
13-02-2011, 16:24
To be honest that have to be one hell of a list for me to out and out just refuse to play it at all. The only example I can think of is the armored company list without having any anti armor weapons but other than that nothing I can think of

Nezalhualixtlan
13-02-2011, 16:29
Well, I usually run lists which are competitive as possible. I *want* to play other lists designed to be as competitive as possible within the rules legal from one single Codex. However... I wouldn't refuse outright a game against someone who didn't do that and made a fluff list that wasn't going to be competitive (and please let me be clear I don't think all fluff lists aren't competitive). But if I wasn't in the mood to change and play a less tuned list I'd make sure they knew my list was designed with competitive play in mind and let them make the choice - and if they didn't want to go up against mine I wouldn't hold it against them, and we could both go our separate ways respectfully to look for other opponents more in line with our gaming expectations.

About the only type of person I would generally pass on is if they were a jerk. I'd be more inclined to let it go if they were playing a highly competitive list because then I could bash them over the head in terms of playing and take it out on them like that. But if it was someone acting like a jerk because they were upset I'm playing the game "the wrong way" by playing competitive and were on some sort of high horse holier than thou fluff crusade, I would definitely pass and never play them again. I have no interest in putting up with that kind of attitude.

Hendarion
13-02-2011, 16:32
If the list would obviously and just vaporize mine without any chance for me, yea, I don't play. It should be kinda fun for both sides and not all lists do offer that for me - or for my opponent.

Chem-Dog
13-02-2011, 16:35
Nah, my gaming group are all pretty fun guys to play against, some are more competative than others but it doesn't bother me.

If I'm going up against an army that totally outclasses me my focus changes from playing to win (but not WAAC) to simply trying to give them the bloodiest nose possible, if he must have his victory, I try to make it Phyrric.
This has led to such fantastic situations as reversing a Chimera over a Hive Tyrant (who failed a Death of Glory attempt) and hosing a DP of Khorne with a single squad of Lasguns (no orders), nobody remembers the death of Guardsman #873728-9872, everyone remmebers when the big guy gets put down :cool:

scar face
13-02-2011, 16:40
In fantasy, people have refused to play against 2 hellcannons and in 40k, there was the hype about non-BA stormravens.... :P

scar

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
13-02-2011, 16:46
In fantasy, people have refused to play against 2 hellcannons and in 40k, there was the hype about non-BA stormravens.... :P

scar
I'm also running under the assumption that they're running a list that's legal. It can be Codex only, or with Forge World models and rules, etc. But it has to be a list that's not codex mashing without prior agreement.

MarcoSkoll
13-02-2011, 16:53
Yes. If I felt the battle would be an uncompetitive, one sided affair (regardless of whether it was in, or against, my favour), I'd not play the game - what's the point? I've been in games where I've wiped out two thirds of my opponent's army by the end of turn two, while my army is practically untouched, and it's not particularly fun for either side.

Or, obviously, if their army list was somehow illegal and they made some inane excuse for why they couldn't fix it.

PyroSikTh
13-02-2011, 16:55
Not unless they're blatantly cheating it. As long as it's codex-legal, endorsed by Forgeworld, adhering to FOC, and they're not a jerk, they can field whatever the hell they like.

Grand Master Raziel
13-02-2011, 17:08
The only way to raise your game is to play against tough lists and opponents, right?

Hendarion
13-02-2011, 17:23
Well, not everybody wants to raise his game, but maybe some just wanna have a friendly and funny game to toss around the little toys we collect and paint, have a beer or cake and talk about fluff 'n stuff.

IcedCrow
13-02-2011, 17:29
I play against my friends. I don't play against people I don't know anymore. I'm not interested in playing an uber high competitive game. Mainly because uber high competitive games seem to feature the same uber tuned lists over and over, and I get bored with that. It's what caused me great burn out a few years ago.

I have just now gotten back into the hobby and have learned that it is very important to pick your opponents carefully and make sure that everyone is on the same sheet of music. Otherwise you can get burned out, and I love the hobby too much to let that happen again.

wyvirn
13-02-2011, 17:33
I might as for a quick reprieve to raise/lower my 'cheese' quotient. And that's not a jerk thing, it's a 'I don't want a one sided shooting gallery' thing. It's really no fun for anyone if your force folds like a pair of twos, or when it acts like SM from the fluff.
I might not play if there is no way for me to win against the army, though.

Bestaltan
13-02-2011, 17:38
I wouldn't refuse a person a game based on their list alone. I've played in enough tournaments and games where I wasn't supposed to win to know that the dice gods are fickle things. I've pulled out some glorious, glorious wins against opponents that had my friends scratching their heads and going "How'd you DO that?"

That said, however......If the person was a jerk as well, forget it.

Vet.Sister
13-02-2011, 18:47
I voted yes only because, when the 40k crowd shows up for game night, I try to find someone who has a list that won't be a one-sided curb-stomping (for either one of us).

Ville
13-02-2011, 18:50
If I'm going up against an army that totally outclasses me my focus changes from playing to win (but not WAAC) to simply trying to give them the bloodiest nose possible, if he must have his victory, I try to make it Phyrric.
This has led to such fantastic situations as reversing a Chimera over a Hive Tyrant (who failed a Death of Glory attempt) and hosing a DP of Khorne with a single squad of Lasguns (no orders), nobody remembers the death of Guardsman #873728-9872, everyone remmebers when the big guy gets put down :cool:

This is a very cool attitude, and I try to maintain a similar spirit if I'm playing against a much stronger army.:yes:

Grand Master Raziel
13-02-2011, 20:41
Well, not everybody wants to raise his game, but maybe some just wanna have a friendly and funny game to toss around the little toys we collect and paint, have a beer or cake and talk about fluff 'n stuff.

I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive.

Havock
13-02-2011, 20:45
Driving a hellhound full speed into a bloodthirster sitting in a ruin on its last wound, it rolled a 6 on a penetrating hit, the explosion took him out.
Lost the game but the hellhound was totally "man of the match".

That thing just had to die.

As for the question, the third option, but as I am no slouch either I can normally produce a list equally nasty ;)

Torpedo Vegas
13-02-2011, 20:56
I really only don't play someone if they are being a jerk. There's a guy at my LGS who used to play Eldar. By 'used to' I mean he had the army for like two weeks, couldn't win a game and switched to Space Wolves, and still can't ever win. The guy still acts superior to everyone and is very, very unpleasant to game with, so I don't play with him. I do play against some really cheese lists though, but most of those players are nice people.

Szalik
13-02-2011, 21:07
I refuse to play against JOTWW and Lash. Everything else is ok for me. Mind You I don't use monstrous creatures or have a lot of models footslogging. Those two powers are just way too broken to allow them to spoil my fun.

bocaj
13-02-2011, 21:17
I'd refuse if they tailor their list to fight mine, such as plasma heavy against my death wing, tailored grey knights against demons. But otherwise I'd let them, I don't mind if they bring home brew rules just as long as its not over powered and I've seen the rules and they have them there.

susu.exp
13-02-2011, 21:31
Iīll play against anything but pure leafblower. Itīs an army mine canīt handle decently (I play CSM which generally lack mobility and generally stick to meltas for my Anti-tank - the LB will pop my transports and the pie plates will wipe me out before I even get in Range. If you get tabled while your opponent loses 2 Guardsmen to Plasma gets hot regularly itīs just no fun at all), I face that list often enough in tournaments and know I canīt even put up a fight. I donīt have models with the neccessary tools to fight this painted so far. Any other list Iīm game for. Iīve eaten through Thunderwolf cav with tremendous casualties but brought them down. Iīve played dual Nob bikers a lot, Iīve stared down seer concils and any other deathstar. Iīve slugged my way through Hordes of Orks. And Iīve beaten IG lists of any type but pure leafblower. If you bring a single Heavy support thatīs not a manticore or Hydra, Iīll play you. If you bring less than 2 Vendettas Iīll play you. If you donīt bring only mounted vets as troops Iīll play you. But if you bring that list I wonīt, because itīs not a fun game for me.

Azzy
13-02-2011, 21:35
I've noticed lots of people saying this ne way or the other. Isn't it just a bit sad that you're letting someone who may actually be quite nice get in your way of having a game?

I know people who field nob lists, nidzilla lists etc and they're really nice guys...

what do you think?

Assuming it's a legal list, I don't care what they take. If it's a cheesy list I get mad props for beating if I win.

Now if they're a jerk... Oh, I'll play them, but I'll be fielding my grot army (Big Mek with Shokka, 6 full Gretchin mobs and a mix of Killa Kans and maxed out Big Guns). That way when they win I can congratulate them for being so epically badass that they overpowered my grots. On the off-chance that I actually win... that player will never live it down. :evilgrin:

Lothlanathorian
13-02-2011, 22:09
Yes. If I felt the battle would be an uncompetitive, one sided affair (regardless of whether it was in, or against, my favour), I'd not play the game - what's the point? I've been in games where I've wiped out two thirds of my opponent's army by the end of turn two, while my army is practically untouched, and it's not particularly fun for either side.

This, to me, sounds like a challenge and Chem-Dog's quote below sums up how to deal with it:


If I'm going up against an army that totally outclasses me my focus changes from playing to win (but not WAAC) to simply trying to give them the bloodiest nose possible, if he must have his victory, I try to make it Phyrric.

That's how I see it. I might not be able to win, but I'll make your army feel like they really earned it.

And I voted I would say no only if they were a jerk. If you're a cool guy and are fun to play, then you are cool and fun to play. If you're an ass, then it doesn't even matter if I'd walk up and down your army like it's parade on your face day, I've no interest in spending time forced to associate with you.

nedius
13-02-2011, 22:47
I run a tyranid swarm list, usually. I designed it for fun, not ultra-competative, so it can't deal with fully mech lists, which are almost impervious to it.

I watched a game with a mech heavy IG list, and tried to work out how my army would deal with it, and ultimately decided that it couldn't. I'd have to sacrifice whole squads to take out each vehicle, which would then leave their squads standing in wreckage (cover) which I'd struggle to assault into.

I figured that ultimately, such a list would be no fun to play for me. Watching my army being torn to shreds at range, and then torn to shreads up close, would just not be that fun.

With my SM list, I'd have played it, because my SM list is designed to be a bit more 'all comers'. But if I only had my 'nids, I'd look for a game that would be more fun for me, but also for my opponant. Im not sure I'd enjoy playing someone who'd get a thrill from beating an army that could barely threaten any of their force, relying on nothing but average luck to win.

But I've never been a huge player, so I guess my ideas matter little in the grand scheme of things!

Wolf Lord Balrog
13-02-2011, 22:58
Does comp even mean anything anymore? I remember back in 2nd, 3rd, and early 4th editions it did, but since about halfway through 4th edition the very notion has been under assault from all directions. It seems it can only be defined negatively anymore. You can't say what is 'good' comp, only what is 'bad', and even that is controversial.

To that end, the ultimate deteminer for me is just whether or not the other guy seems like a jerk, or is too uber-competitive, neither of which is fun for me.

Axeman1n
13-02-2011, 23:11
I love playing against Cheesey lists. That way I have an excuse when I lose, and if I win I'm like WoW, you must suck!? LOL
In all honesty, I've never refused a game with anyone.

LonelyPath
13-02-2011, 23:21
I will face any army so long as the guy fielding it wasn't a complete jerk. Heck, I'd likely still play them once, then turn them down for further games if they did turn out to be a jerk.

The only way I'd refuse to play someone at all is if their list was illegal.

Oguleth
13-02-2011, 23:26
I tend to run two mindsets when I game, and armylists with them.

I run lists that aims to be competitive, and wouldn't refuse to play anyone based on comp with it. (If I did, there'd be a picture of me under "double morals" or so on wikipedia)

And I run lists that are mostly aiming to get a different and what is to me, the most fun way of playing 40k, with a wider variety of units, silly close combat units and so on. I'd most likely refuse to play people who runs competitive lists (except if it seems like being a fun matchup) when doing this.

I have yet to meet any of the fabled jerks when playing 40k, I'll get back to you after playing against one ;)

Malphax
13-02-2011, 23:29
The only time I've ever refused a game for something other than an illegal list was for an opponent who was using FW rules and models for over half his army. I'd never seen them before, and needed time to review their rules. But that wasn't a flat refusal, that was a delay.

Jerks rarely get a second game, though, so I voted the "jerk" option in the poll.

Private_SeeD
13-02-2011, 23:31
There are certain who get moody when things aren't going there way so I tend to avoid and the guys who have lists that before any dice are rolled its not going to fun to play so I avoid them too, I'd rather read a novel than watch my force get trashed tbh, it might make me not very sportsmanship but I can chose how I play my hobby :p

RobPro
14-02-2011, 02:42
I usually ask people how competitively they want to play, and then tailor a list for that. If they say they're trying something out for a tournament, I run a tournament list. If they say they're running something fluffy, I might try out a goofy combo instead of really effective units. Unfortunately, some people don't understand what "competitive" means, and will often say they have random fun things when in reality they've got a null zone librarian, 10 TH/SS termies, drop podding sternguard, etc. and I'm stuck sitting there with 100 Necron Warriors.

Nocculum
14-02-2011, 08:14
I wouldn't refuse to play, but, I would be more likely to call the game early if it was an inhospitable environment, be that player attitude or my utter inability to win or scrape a draw...and I always try my hardest to scrape a draw.

There's just nothing you can do with with three marines and bolters against 4 Land Raiders :shifty: sometimes.

neapolitan-guard
14-02-2011, 10:17
if the other guy is someone i regularly play(most people in local area) and i know i can't beat their army or they're a real nerve grinder then i politely make an excuse not to play them.
there's only so many times you can play against 30 nobs with cybork bodies/ FNP and klaws without feeling your figure case is the only thing that can bring them down.

chromedog
14-02-2011, 10:29
Only if the player themself was a tool.

Armies don't play themselves. If my opponent is an oxygen thief, then he's not getting a game from me regardless of his army.

peterjameslewis711
14-02-2011, 12:57
I play in an environment where we have several lash lists, several armoured companies and many other "ott" type of lists and no offence, once u beat them once its not hard to do it time and time again, people really have an issue when playing such lists? leave em, and enjoy the game, its ur hobby do it as u like :D

Lord of Divine Slaughter
14-02-2011, 13:17
I've come across a few setups, where my initial thought was "Oh darn! I'm gonna get ripped apart before I set my boot to the ground." and usually pull through with a win despite the odds.

I think you should let people field the toys they want to, at least give them the courtesy of trying their stuff out. When people find out that certain army builds seem to shape their games, and make them repetitive, they usually go and explore new and exciting things, and go for a little moderation to have a less one-sided battle.

That said, I'd never play against someone, I wouldn't sit down and have a beer with and not discuss little toy figures ;)

DeviantApostle
14-02-2011, 13:38
While being a jerk is the most important factor, there are certain armies that shouldn't face off unless the disadvantaged side likes pain.

For example, if my enemy fielded an Iyanden theme army full of Wraithguard and Wraithlords and I'd rocked up to the club with Venom spam DE with dual splinter cannons I wouldn't blame my opponent for refusing to play me. That's not a game, it's a foregone conclusion.

IcedCrow
14-02-2011, 13:42
Could someone explain what the "lash list" is?

Hypaspist
14-02-2011, 13:47
Generally speaking it's Two Daemon princes, with the lash of Submission Psychic power, lots of obliterators (somewhere between 6 and 9) and then something nasty to fill up the troop slots (which is often, but not limited to) Plague Marines with Plasma weaponry and Khorne berserkers.

The idea is that you bring those elements of your opponents army that you want to smash, closer to you, whilst pushing other elements away. (Lash of submission does not work on vehicles)

It's not liked, mostly, (I believe) because of the "I get to move your models" element to it.

However, once you play it, you quicly learn to adapt against it, and certainly the list is less useful the more mech the opponent has.

IcedCrow
14-02-2011, 14:03
Ah. Gotcha thanks. I'm a chaos player but that's not something I'd ever run. Mostly because the model count is so horrendously low it seems like putting a lot of eggs into so few baskets.

ColShaw
14-02-2011, 14:36
In fantasy, people have refused to play against 2 hellcannons and in 40k, there was the hype about non-BA stormravens.... :P

Well, I might refuse to play against an army violating codex rules, such as including a Stormraven in a non-BA army. But that's not really the question. I read the OP's question as, "would you refuse to play against someone, just because of their legal army composition?"

The answer to that is no. I would not refuse a game on those grounds. I would, however, decline a game against a player whom I knew, from past experience, to be a jerk. This is a hobby game. We do it for fun. If it's not fun, what on earth am I doing spending my rare free evenings in the store for?

infelix
14-02-2011, 14:58
Because of army composition? No, not as long as it's a Codex legal army. I'll play non-codex armies as well but then I want to know about it before hand.

Aliarzathanil
14-02-2011, 16:39
I generally decline to play against unpainted "counts as" net lists, but I'm just a snob like that. If you want to run an WAAC list, at least earn it a little by painting it.

AlexHolker
14-02-2011, 16:46
I wouldn't want to play against someone who has blatantly designed their army to use wound allocation shenanigans. The rule has no resemblance to anything that you could actually do in-universe, so I do not feel it is a valid tactic to use (or for the rules writers to encourage).

Kulgur
14-02-2011, 16:47
Depends somewhat on what I have with me, though I've always refused Necron vs Necron.

To my mind, that would be the most boring battle ever

Hicks
14-02-2011, 17:45
I'm gonna have to say yes, because in my gaming group there was a bit of a trend of going all out with list tailoring for a while.

It went as far as changing lists at the last moment, when the opponent would see what units you brought for the battle and even tailoring the terrain to be used during the battle.

Things went back to a more fun oriented games state when half our players decided it wasn't worth it to play the other half.

marv335
14-02-2011, 18:12
I have in the past.
I don't get to play as often as I used to, so what games I do get, I guard jealously.
Some things just are not fun.
My time is valuable.

Erwos
14-02-2011, 18:49
I've had people refuse to fight my tuned mech IG list. Whether I'll find that offensive primarily hinges on WHY they're refusing to fight. If you just don't have a list capable of fighting tuned mech IG, that's fine and understandable. If you're just looking to club baby seals and not actually fight someone who can win, I'm not going to think highly of you.

On the other side, I've never said no to a game, even when running a relatively tame CSM list against some of the nastier builds out there (razor spam coming to mind). I've gotten shredded more than my fair share of times, but I've always learned something valuable from the experience.

adeptusphotographicus
14-02-2011, 19:47
why would you refuse to play against someone based upon their army list? that is crazy talk.
fine to refuse to play if the opponent is just not a person you wish to game with. for various reasons.
but just since you dislike the army list they use?
crazy talk...

dancingcricket
14-02-2011, 20:01
I would normally have said no, I wouldn't refuse because of how their army is built. But then I saw the grey knight rumors, and I play daemons...

Charistoph
14-02-2011, 21:12
Because of army composition? No, not as long as it's a Codex legal army. I'll play non-codex armies as well but then I want to know about it before hand.

This is me. The only other exception being a completely illegal list. If you're bringing an illegal list, you're cheating. If you're cheating, you're a jerk. I had my fill of jerks by Junior High over 20 years ago, so I don't need to be around anymore.

This also presupposes that the illegality is deliberate and not ignorance. Ignorance is easily cured, being a jerk is not, especially without a spare dreadnought and sock.

Xandros
14-02-2011, 21:18
Sometimes odds are quite horrible, but I make a point of fighting with complete confidence. There will be a point where nothiing can be done, but it usally doesn't happen before the game.

If there is the faintest speck of light at the end of the tunnel, that's what I'll be aiming for. Keeping with the tunnel analogy, other times it's just a matter of finding a section of tunnel that isn't both flooded and about to collapse. "Hey, this flooded tunnel is quite nice...could be much worse!".

the_yuk
14-02-2011, 21:26
I havnt played in a long time, just getting back into it. Other then Jerks or illegal lists i wouldnt mind who or what i played. Im setting up a Krieg army so to me even if the odds are hopless the DKOK wouldnt walk onto the field of battle and say "guys i think were going to lose, lets not go to war today".

Vaktathi
14-02-2011, 21:33
I'd only refuse if it were very clear that the game was going to be totally one-sided, but I'd be more likely to do something like say "hey, with the list I brought this is just going to be a one-sided stomp, probably not much fun for either of us, mind if I change it up?"

That said, I haven't ever really run into that situation in recent memory, I tend to run at least half-way capable all-comers lists, and there's very few things I find *so* overwhelming that it would come to that. I don't think any of my 40k armies would really be in that situation, though in Fantasy it's definitely something I could see (oh I brought my WoC army of nothing but small elite units of Warriors and a Knight unit, and you have five casters all with the Lore of Metal and I've got one dispell caddy, lets think about this...)

I'll put "only if they were a jerk as well".

PatchOnMyShoulder
15-02-2011, 09:04
To my knowledge I've never refused a game based on an opponents list comp., assuming we're talking legal list using core 40k rules (IE no Apoc, FW, or exceptions... I play those, but not always), and assuming if one of us has tailored our list for just that fight so can the other.

(That isn't to say I haven't gotten packed in, just that the person was tailored against all MEQs not just mine, or all paper tiger lists not just mine specifically. Rock vs Scissors happens when you're being random too and I'm cool with that.)

I've refused most often due to time constraints (you brought a 2250 list for a 1 hour hardcap game? And it's got 798 grots?!?), second most often due to player attitude (mainly overly competative when I'm looking for fun, or suspected cheaters or known munchkins), and third most often due to the GF effect. (That's when whatever bumpy human I'm currently with gives me the look that says I won't be a pointy human when she's done chopping the pointy bit off me for playing a game of 40k when I swore we'd be in the shop less then 15 minutes.)

Thanatos_elNyx
15-02-2011, 09:09
I know people who field nob lists, nidzilla lists etc and they're really nice guys...

Nice guys don't bring cheese.

Vaktathi
15-02-2011, 09:15
Cheese is in the eye of the beholder however.

KingNova3000
15-02-2011, 09:17
Best thing to do is play them, beat them with your balanced themed army and prove that you're the better gamer. That is the best.

AndrewGPaul
15-02-2011, 09:32
I voted "yes". I'm generally fairly easy-going, but I like to think of my games as "re-enactments" of something that happened in the setting. If someone turns up with an army list based purely on game effectiveness, with no consideration of the background, then I'm unlikely to agree to a game. I don't see the point in agreeing to something that's not going to be satisfying for either of us.

spevna
15-02-2011, 09:43
I voted "yes". I'm generally fairly easy-going, but I like to think of my games as "re-enactments" of something that happened in the setting. If someone turns up with an army list based purely on game effectiveness, with no consideration of the background, then I'm unlikely to agree to a game. I don't see the point in agreeing to something that's not going to be satisfying for either of us.

^ This is right.

AndrewGPaul
15-02-2011, 09:45
Not that there's anything wrong with playing the game rather than the setting (he says, trying to avoid turning it into that thread); I just don't enjoy doing it, so I don't. :)

scar face
15-02-2011, 15:54
I voted "yes". I'm generally fairly easy-going, but I like to think of my games as "re-enactments" of something that happened in the setting. If someone turns up with an army list based purely on game effectiveness, with no consideration of the background, then I'm unlikely to agree to a game. I don't see the point in agreeing to something that's not going to be satisfying for either of us.

I would have to disagree. While I like some re-enactment and playing as if it actually would have happened, I wouldn't refuse a game because someone has built their army to play well!
It is a game after all- you would try and win in 'Risk' for example, not try and take the world as historical leaders may have tried to do in the past.

My opinion- don't take this the wrong way :)


scar

Excessus
15-02-2011, 17:05
winning against an army with a strange/powerful composition makes the win sooo much sweeter :D

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
16-02-2011, 00:53
This also presupposes that the illegality is deliberate and not ignorance. Ignorance is easily cured, being a jerk is not, especially without a spare dreadnought and sock.

Only if the dreadnought is metal. I use Bjorn, personally.

FabricatorGeneralMike
16-02-2011, 04:08
This is me. The only other exception being a completely illegal list. If you're bringing an illegal list, you're cheating. If you're cheating, you're a jerk. I had my fill of jerks by Junior High over 20 years ago, so I don't need to be around anymore.

This also presupposes that the illegality is deliberate and not ignorance. Ignorance is easily cured, being a jerk is not, especially without a spare dreadnought and sock.


Only if the dreadnought is metal. I use Bjorn, personally.

See people, there still are uses for the old metal dreads. :angel: Personally I have three of them, I like them better then the plastic ones. But thats just me.

It's all about the attitude, I want to have fun while I play.

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
16-02-2011, 04:32
It's all about the attitude, I want to have fun while I play.

And I just want to smash someone's head in with a metal dreadnought filled sock! :evilgrin:

Doomseer
16-02-2011, 10:38
Few players enjoy going up against the silly armies but it can be made better by player attitude.

If they have a tough list and they're not a jerk then its not a problem. I put tough lists together and like to play against other tough lists so it just comes down to how the game is going to go between myself and my opponent beyond the models and army composition.

I've witnessed several players asking what a potential opponent has in their list and then weighing up their chance of success before agreeing to play. Refusing to ever play someone because of their list is no better than picking soft opponents you know you have a strong chance of beating, sadly these players are often one and the same.

Brother-Captain Ehrlen
16-02-2011, 10:48
No, I wouldn't deny them a game - but I also wouldn't lose any sleep if I lost to a tourney list.

This game is so awkwardly balanced in regards to badly phrased rules / FAQs, and certain factions codices being horribly outdated, that I cannot consider it a "competitive" game no matter how much I try.

AndrewGPaul
16-02-2011, 11:57
I would have to disagree. While I like some re-enactment and playing as if it actually would have happened, I wouldn't refuse a game because someone has built their army to play well!
It is a game after all- you would try and win in 'Risk' for example, not try and take the world as historical leaders may have tried to do in the past.

My opinion- don't take this the wrong way :)


scar

I would try to win in Risk, since it bears only the smallest resemblance to a historical wargame. Command and Colours Ancients is a different story, however - I would play that following actual Roman legion tactics and doctrine - if I knew what they were. :)

Satan
16-02-2011, 12:26
I would play them, sighing through the whole game pretty much like we used to do back when the seer council was immortal.

AndrewGPaul
16-02-2011, 12:37
I would play them, sighing through the whole game pretty much like we used to do back when the seer council was immortal.

What's the point of that, though? If you're not enjoying the game, why bother?

Satan
16-02-2011, 12:48
What's the point of that, though? If you're not enjoying the game, why bother?

Well, I'd be deluding myself that I would enjoy it and I wouldn't want to be a poor sport. But I wouldn't blame my opponent for bringing a good list if it was a friendly game.

laudarkul
16-02-2011, 13:10
No. It's a good opportunity to test a list. Ok I know that I have 90% chances to be defeated, but I can learn from this.

ColShaw
16-02-2011, 14:23
I guess there is one case where I'd refuse to play against a specific army. That would be if someone's using an ambiguous rule, pushing it to its illogical extreme, and trying to exploit a loophole in the rules. Someone who will do that, while arguing "But it's RAW!" will only play me once.

Malorian
16-02-2011, 14:26
As of yet I have never refused to play someone... once...

I have refused to play a second time however.

Putty
16-02-2011, 14:36
after playing against a tau list that had max crisis suits and max gun drones, i'd never want to play against that list ever again.

if i even face it during a tournament, i'd gladly concede the game instead of going through the agony of playing that match.

x-esiv-4c
16-02-2011, 15:25
As a Daemon player I don't see much fun in playing against the rumored GKs.

IcedCrow
16-02-2011, 16:05
As a Daemon player I wouldn't mind playing against the Grey Knights. After all that's part of the fluff. Why make an army like the Grey Knights if they will never fight the daemons?

However I would be less interested in fighting Grey Knights in a tournament enviornment over and over because the outcome is often going to be a foregone conclusion.

I prefer campaigns and campaign bonuses.

Eryx_UK
16-02-2011, 16:13
I would never refuse to play against someone so long as they had a legal list. I might roll my eyes and groan if they are playing a twinky list but even that wouldn't stop me.

Ironhand
16-02-2011, 16:37
I wouldn't refuse as long as the list is legal and from a standard, current GW Codex or a Forgeworld list.

I would refuse to play against a fan-created Codex list of any sort.

Charistoph
16-02-2011, 17:39
I wouldn't refuse as long as the list is legal and from a standard, current GW Codex or a Forgeworld list.

I would refuse to play against a fan-created Codex list of any sort.

Some would argue that there is little difference between a Forgeworld list or a Fandex list, and from a tournament standpoint, there isn't.

Fandexes can be as interesting as Forgeworld lists. The diffeence between them being Fandexes are usually overpowered and underpriced while Forgeworld is powerful, but overpriced.

If they walked me through the Fandex and it wasn't rediculous, I'd probably play against it. But Fandexes are very tricky ground to tread.

Solid_Smurf
16-02-2011, 19:15
I've only refused to play an army comp for one reason.
They break FOC.

Example of this.
Eldar played wanted to play a game where his Dark Reapers/Banshees were troop choices using current codex. I politely declined.

New player wanted to play a "by the book" game. Using his Land Raider, Captain, Sgt Telion, Combat Squad, and Land Speeder. I declined, and instead helped him learn the rules about the units he did have.

Ironhand
16-02-2011, 20:09
Some would argue that there is little difference between a Forgeworld list or a Fandex list, and from a tournament standpoint, there isn't.

Fandexes can be as interesting as Forgeworld lists. The difference between them being Fandexes are usually overpowered and underpriced while Forgeworld is powerful, but overpriced.

If they walked me through the Fandex and it wasn't rediculous, I'd probably play against it. But Fandexes are very tricky ground to tread.

To me there's a big difference - we're talking professionals in the case of Forgeworld versus amateurs (and usually fanboys/girls) in the case of Fandexes, although I will grant you that Forgeworld lists seem to be more interested in promoting the use of their models sometimes.

I could care less about tournaments. I don't like them and don't play in them.
I'm speaking solely from a pickup game or campaign perspective.

grimrage
16-02-2011, 20:46
As long as they aren't being a gigantic grognard I'll play anyone, honestly.

I've had people refuse to play me due to fielding Astorath and a bunch of Death Company, though.

Zurken
17-02-2011, 04:45
I wouldn't call forgeworld's writers professional... there are many players that understand the ballance of the game much more than any of the rules writers.

Fandexes can probably be even more ridiculous/OP/whatever than even the most broken things from FW. If you accept FW, you should atleast give fandexes a chance, it might even be fun O.o!

unheilig
17-02-2011, 05:18
If its legal, bring it.

If you're a jerk, it will be the only game we play.

Redscare
17-02-2011, 07:34
To me there's a big difference - we're talking professionals in the case of Forgeworld versus amateurs (and usually fanboys/girls) in the case of Fandexes, although I will grant you that Forgeworld lists seem to be more interested in promoting the use of their models sometimes.



I disagree with this. The case with Forgeworld writers being "professional" but only semi-competent only makes them worse compared to amateur fan codeci. Think about this for a second- its really actually an economic principle.

Forgeworld will often on occasion churn out very crappy rules (example: DKoK grenadiers). As players, we can't do anything about this. If we want to use DKoK grenadiers, we have to use the rules they provided. Sure we can proxy the awesome minis for other units, but as long as we want DKoK grenadiers, we don't have much of a choice. It doesn't matter how stupidly over-costed the unit is because it is official and it is GW (ish). You see this in normal GW stuff as well (chaos spawns for example), but to a far less extent.

The difference with fan codeci is that we, the players, decide on what is valid, reasonable, or not. If a gamer writes a totally ridiculous codex, such as "Well I play IG and I want S6 lasguns F-YEAH", no one in the right mind would agree to this- it is essentially worthless. However, say from example there was no official entry for Stormtroopers in the IG codex. We, the players, might be able to say "well how about some like this..." and work out a reasonable unit which a lot of people can agree too, if only within our own gaming community.

The problem with FW is that they are simply not as competent as GW when it comes to creating rules, if simply because GW is able to devote more time and resources to it. I'm absolutely certain this is the case. FW is a small company dedicated to making minis- they simply can't play test everything they put out there to the same extent as GW. Meanwhile, we the gamers, pay the price for it if we want to partake in FW's often half-baked endeavors in writing rules.

Rick Blaine
17-02-2011, 08:37
I just saw this GK list over at Dakka:


Coteaz - 150p

3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p

1986p total


I would absolutely refuse to play against a list like that, because it's obvious that a person who fields such a list has a vastly different idea about what constitutes a fun game than I do.

Firmlog
17-02-2011, 12:41
I don't generally refuse to play against someone unless they really are a jerk. However, I may not make myself available to play.

I have only picked up and quit against one player in 40k and I put up with miss measurement, custom (non FOC units), and general rules cheating. But after the 2nd turn I did a quick point count of his list and it was 500 points higher than mine. So I just picked up my models and left the game. Also, once for warmachine but I didn't notice his over pointing, until after the game and refused all other games against that player. And I will generally allow a player to have +/- 2% in all games.

Havock
17-02-2011, 12:58
The problem with FW is that they are simply not as competent as GW when it comes to creating rules, if simply because GW is able to devote more time and resources to it. I'm absolutely certain this is the case. FW is a small company dedicated to making minis- they simply can't play test everything they put out there to the same extent as GW. Meanwhile, we the gamers, pay the price for it if we want to partake in FW's often half-baked endeavors in writing rules.

You are insinuating that GW's stuff is.... No wait. I presuma that if you want to use a pyrovore, you can just kindly request GW to buff it a little? Jeez, the arguments you bring in against FW are the bloody same as GW is guilty on.

AndrewGPaul
17-02-2011, 13:41
I just saw this GK list over at Dakka:


I would absolutely refuse to play against a list like that, because it's obvious that a person who fields such a list has a vastly different idea about what constitutes a fun game than I do.

How does that work? 1 HQ, 18 Troops?

Bestial Fury
17-02-2011, 15:28
I won't play jerks period.

In terms of composition, I refuse to concede power and give up. I won't assume I can't win, and even if I lose, thats an opportunity to learn and win next time.

Just a game, not like I'm losing my life.

Lord Damocles
17-02-2011, 15:39
How does that work? 1 HQ, 18 Troops?


Dakka
There's your problem :shifty: