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juicytomatoes
14-03-2011, 17:14
So from what I understand, orcs were 'made' from elves, twisted and perverted in Melkor's attempt to make his own creatures? If that is the case and I haven't read it wrong, when orcs are slain, do they also go to the Halls of Mandos as well?

Whitwort Stormbringer
15-03-2011, 02:59
Frankly I doubt you're going to find any answer to this question, but based on my perceptions I'd say no, because orcs have been corrupted and are not elves anymore, therefore I would imagine that they lose the privileges and benefits that come with being an elf.

juicytomatoes
15-03-2011, 06:39
I appreciate you trying to, though. Sometimes, just a discussion is good enough, since Tolkien isn't exactly around to answer it (unless it's been answered somewhere?)

So if orcs don't go to the Halls of Mandos, where do they go? Do they join Melkor in the Void? Or do they pass from the circles of the world, like Men?

canucklhead
15-03-2011, 18:30
If I had to guess, and I'm seriously just guessing here, trying to perhaps think along Tolkien's lines, then I sould think Orcs were corrupted to be polar opposites to Elves.

they would love no craft, find nothing beautiful, have no compassion or empathy of any kind. Their lives would be short and brutal, and they would preserve nothing. What's likely most important, is that they would literally have no souls, no will or power, being little more than cunning animals, easily lead or duped, fearful and reactionnary. Given those parameters, I'd think that Orcs who died would simply rot, no soul would journey on, but rather they would simply return to the earth to which they were tied.

I would not think they would be sent into torment after death, since in the end, their lives were not of their choosing. Tolkien was generally one for forgiveness and the redemption of those who were wronged, so it perhaps fits that Orcs would be allowed to just die, and perhaps find some peace in that.

Returning to the halls of Mandos might have been the fate of the first Orcs, those who truly were ruined and corrupted Elves, but again, all of this is conjecture.

enyoss
16-03-2011, 01:17
If I had to guess, and I'm seriously just guessing here, trying to perhaps think along Tolkien's lines, then I sould think Orcs were corrupted to be polar opposites to Elves.


So they end up going to the Halls of Sodnam?... if not they probably should, it sounds filthy enough.

Interesting question though. As canucklhead says, perhaps the first orcs, the ones who were actually elves corrupted, went to Mandos but in their uncorrupted form? Perhaps one of the reasons this was Morgoth's most evil act was that it denied these elves, and their descendants, the chance of being reborn in Mandos? I quite like that myself.

Overall though, I have no idea.

Terminatorphoenix
16-04-2011, 17:09
Halls of Sodnam

Sounds like an British upperclass University hall to me

"Yes Bill, I'll be attending Oxbridge in the coming fall reading Social Science at Sodnam Hall, jolly good isn't it?"

Like everyone else in this thread, I honestly have no idea.

juicytomatoes
10-05-2011, 15:41
So they end up going to the Halls of Sodnam?

Brilliant!



Sounds like an British upperclass University hall to me

"Yes Bill, I'll be attending Oxbridge in the coming fall reading Social Science at Sodnam Hall, jolly good isn't it?"

Like everyone else in this thread, I honestly have no idea.



Briliant, regardless!

:D

jprp
21-03-2014, 22:26
Get yourself a copy of Morgoths Ring.