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H33D
25-03-2011, 03:45
This happened in a Battle Royal I participated in the other day with a Beastmen player. It was turn 5 and he had a 6 minotaur unit with his Doombull general in it. The Empire player we were playing with beat and overran a Skaven unit at the end of a turn and ended up rather close to the Minotaur unit and it its front arc. Also, a Skaven unit was sneaking around behind the Minotaur unit in what was possibly an attempt to claim the objective under the Minotaur unit should they move.

The Beastmen player charged the approaching Empire unit with only his Doombull. He claimed that because he was charging out of the unit, the unit was unable to charge that turn and therefore didn't have to test for Frenzy on the Empire unit.

This makes sense at first, but then again the rule for Frenzy doesn't say at what point during the charge sub-phase you have to make the restrain test. It merely says that if you don't want to charge with a unit during the charge sub-phase, you test. Since at a point during the charge sub-phase he is able to declare a charge, does he have to declare a charge or attempt to pass the LD test not to before doing anything else?

The Empire player remarked that it seemed a bit fishy he was able to bypass that rule just by charging a character out of the unit so we discussed it for a while and let it slide but half of us thought it was probably one way and the other two guys thought it was probably the other. What do you guys think?

tmarichards
25-03-2011, 07:04
If it doesn't specify at what point in the phase you have to do it, I'd say the logical conclusion is for the active player to decide.

AMWOOD co
25-03-2011, 07:49
The key to this, I feel, is that in order for this to work, the Minotaurs have to not charge. As such, for the character to charge out of the unit, the unit must first pass their Berserk Rage test. The rules for it seem to imply that the only way it is intended for them to sit still (unless stated otherwise eg. buildings) is to pass that Ld test.

It comes down to what does the rule for charging out of the unit state in regards to whether the unit not declaring a charge is a prerequiset or a result of the character charging out of the unit.

Edit: After reading p101 (2nd paragraph) it seems it may be a result, but it is not conclusive. I'll add this to my list, H33D. I want an answer now.

T10
25-03-2011, 09:29
[color="yellow"
The Beastmen player charged the approaching Empire unit with only his Doombull. He claimed that because he was charging out of the unit, the unit was unable to charge that turn and therefore didn't have to test for Frenzy on the Empire unit.

The Empire player remarked that it seemed a bit fishy he was able to bypass that rule just by charging a character out of the unit so we discussed it for a while and let it slide but half of us thought it was probably one way and the other two guys thought it was probably the other. What do you guys think?[/color]

Fishy indeed. The Berserk Charge rules part of the Frenzy rules state that if one or more models in the unit is subject to frenzy then the unit must charge.

However, I would assume that if the unit passes the test, any characters in the unit is free to charge out of it as normal.

-T10