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Oakwolf
14-06-2011, 21:30
Hello there,

I've always wondered if the lantern was an actual, physical object carried by the heroes or if it was more or less a "leader tag" given to a party member.

The barbarian only has one single-handed sword at the start, but what about using other weapons, or the lantern given to someone who doesn't have two free hands?

For example, what if the dwarf is forced to be leader? Can he even attack?

So far, here, we've treated the equipment as just an additional piece of wargear and not something that prevents the hero to use weapons or equipment.

Would that make the barbarian too good in your opinion (making him able to use shields, 2 handed weapons or two hand weapons)? or is it actually how you do it.

Jimmy Mc
15-06-2011, 08:36
I use the lantern as a marker for the leader.

Otherwise, when you play a campaign (in which the leader is changed each dungeon) you'd end up with a lot of the characters not being able to fight properly (such as the Wardancer) if you restricted them to one hand

Oakwolf
15-06-2011, 13:52
I agree with you, though in order to be fair for the barbarian, we've given him the option to be the leader every time if he wants to.

Otherwise he's the only hero with no item to help him during his quest.

not that the lantern is very helpful, but it does have 3 minor side effects:

a) you strike first
b) the dwarf -will- use the rope for you if you fall down a pit :P
c) you can't get lost in the dungeon

LSWSjr
16-06-2011, 02:44
Generally we always have the Barbarian with it as an exclusive item, except in games where the barbarian is not used. Otherwise I often feel that when compared to all the other Warriors the Barbarian falls short, either by not having else unique (such as a unique settlement location) or being outclassed in combat by the Expansion Warriors (especially the Bretonian Knight).

Speaking of which, how many people use the barbarian and why (if you have access to all the other Expansion Warriors)?

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Oakwolf
16-06-2011, 03:02
Well, to be honest, i am very often the one using the Barbarian in our group.

The first reason is because most people are interested in either elves, dwarves or wizards, so i let them play those.

As for other fighters, i've found that over time, the extra attack of the barbarian when berserk makes him very powerful (especially with magical weapons).

The brettonian knight is downright better at the start of a campaign, but he is catched up by others after some time (can't pin point when). He's also tailored to fight big monsters, while the barbarian, at least at first, is made to kill swarms (low ws, more attacks, no deathblow penalty).

By allowing him to equip stuff in both of his hands, it gives him the opportunity for large weapons or even shields (which makes him even tougher).

DelveLord
16-06-2011, 12:22
I believe in the Elf Wardancer pack they state that he cannot be the Leader if he wants to use his twin swords. This implies that the Lantern actually does use up one hand!

Oakwolf
16-06-2011, 13:21
But then the barbarian would really be at a disadvantage vs all others in a campaign.

And while the wardancer could still fight using 1 sword, the dwarf cannot, so it makes the game rather tedious. What if people want to make a band of 4 dwarves?

There has to be a reason for people to pick the barbarian too.

---

The barbarian's power comes from the fact he is able to get armor, shield, a magic weapon -and- an extra attack with it, while being both strong and tough.

Jimmy Mc
16-06-2011, 14:18
I've found that the Barbarian becomes very powerful compared to a lot of the more flashy characters due to the amount of Wounds he racks up as he goes up the Battle Levels, and the range of magical weapons/armour that he is allowed to use.

I've not read that about the lantern in the Wardancer manual (I should read those more carefully:D). In the Roleplay Book it does say that you should switch the party leader from adventure to adventure in a campaign, and all the original equipment (rope, healing potion, hand of death scroll) are one use only so usually don't feature after one or two dungeons.

Goign first ro at initiative order can be positive or negative depending on the monsters you encounter, you get first attempt to clear lesser monsters away but hardly ever get to put the killing shot on a large monster:D

I'd just say do what your gaming group feels is best. Switching it around works for us (the leader decides who gets the Treasure too remember).

Oakwolf
16-06-2011, 15:30
I agree with that, although to keep him interesting (and perhaps show his manners) we always give the barbarian the option of being leader if he is in the mood.

It's a bit like a "special skill" to simply take the lantern and say "Trust me", while the others bicker about who should lead. It does fit with the mentality of Conan ;)

As for starting items for the 4 basic heroes; most are one-use, except the dwarf who might get to keep his rope. The one-use items are quite powerful though.

LSWSjr
17-06-2011, 04:21
Personally I always prefer to use Andy Jones' Ogre rules, he's similar to the Barbarian but much harder, with high starting Wounds (8-18), high Toughness, an extra D6 damage if he rolls 5+ To Hit and abilities like kicking/throwing monsters and climbing (or pulling others) out of pits, just to begin with.

That said, powerful as he might be, he can be really problematic at times, attracting additional monsters and causing trouble in settlements which can see the whole party suffer are the most serious ones. Not to mention he costs more in room and board, strikes last in combat, tends to forget to search monsters for gold (which his party members gladly take for themselves) and occasionally gets turned into a toad by the Wizards Guild.

Back to talking about the Latern though, one of the many funny things about him is that when he gets the 'Thinking' skill (which removes his Strikes Last drawback and allows him to be the Leader) he will automatically take the lantern on a roll of 6 if someone else has it at the start of the adventure.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Jimmy Mc
17-06-2011, 09:14
Personally I always prefer to use Andy Jones' Ogre rules, he's similar to the Barbarian but much harder, with high starting Wounds (8-18), high Toughness, an extra D6 damage if he rolls 5+ To Hit and abilities like kicking/throwing monsters and climbing (or pulling others) out of pits, just to begin with.

That said, powerful as he might be, he can be really problematic at times, attracting additional monsters and causing trouble in settlements which can see the whole party suffer are the most serious ones. Not to mention he costs more in room and board, strikes last in combat, tends to forget to search monsters for gold (which his party members gladly take for themselves) and occasionally gets turned into a toad by the Wizards Guild.

Back to talking about the Latern though, one of the many funny things about him is that when he gets the 'Thinking' skill (which removes his Strikes Last drawback and allows him to be the Leader) he will automatically take the lantern on a roll of 6 if someone else has it at the start of the adventure.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr
The Ogre is a really fun character. We have one in our gaming group and due to the Wizard being a true Wizard and rolling 1's far more than probablility dictates, coupled with the Ogre matching his rolls i've been through a whole Event deck in 3 board sections:eek:

Oakwolf
18-06-2011, 05:57
I've found out a hint that solves my question pretty much: the number 7 skill is made for shields, pretty much confirming that the barbarian can indeed carry one.

On a distantly related topic...

Has anyone noticed that the barbarian is quite weak compared to most heroes especially at lvl 2. It almost feels like there is a typo in the chart.

He does recover by lvl 5 though.

DelveLord
19-06-2011, 13:54
Of course the Barbarian CAN carry a shield, but he has to forgo the Lantern and someon else needs to take the mantle of leadership (as it describes in the RP book). Playing it this way adds another fun, agonizing decision point for the players ;)

BigRob
19-06-2011, 21:26
We have always seen the lantern as the mark of the leader rather than a piece of equipment that takes one hand to use, letting the barbarian take a shield or two handed weapon.

The way my group played it was to give him D6 casks of Ale and D6+1 bandages from the general store as his starting equipment, but we always gave every warrior an extra D6 Provisions as starting kit too, made more sense and improved the game no end.