View Full Version : Empire BSB's and magic shields

Dark Aly
08-07-2011, 19:11
I'm sure this has already been asked but I couldn't find it and the search function doesn't appear to work (it's "forbidden"- sounds dodgy :))

Anway back to the question-
Can Empire battle standards who cannnot be equiped with mundane shields be given magical ones? Assuming ofcourse that they have no magic banner and no other magic armour.

I suppose this can also be extended to items like the fencer's blades.

Thanks in advance

Lord Solar Plexus
08-07-2011, 20:24
Yes, he can. The ability to buy a mundane shield is no prerequisite.

09-07-2011, 17:29
Similar to the Bretonnian BSB, the old requirement to have acces to a mundane shield no longer exists. Only for models with the wizard rule are there restrictive rules.

My advice, check your opponent or tournament organiser beforehand, had some of them decline the ruling for some reason..

10-07-2011, 14:41
On the contrary, I wouldn't ask a TO beforehand, since your post proves that TOs sometimes make incorrect rulings, and if you want a magic shield on your BSB, then you don't want an opportunity to be over-ruled on it. If you get to a tournament and someone questions it, then just be prepared to back up your argument with the rules, which are clear. Just make sure you know which page to point at if it does come up!

10-07-2011, 14:55
I prefer not to go to a tournament with the onset of having a rules argument, knowing beforehand how it will play out makes it alot more entertaining.

Especially with vague rules (another one is the Impetious rule from the Knights Errant). Sometimes judges disagree and even with the best arguments in the world you can't convince them. It makes it more of a game instead of a rule interpretation debate.

But that's offtopic.
One small note, the Wood Elf BSB is the only one from the old books that isn't allowed a magical shield because of their FAQ.

10-07-2011, 18:57
But you do know beforehand how it will play out. You're allowed a magic shield, end of discussion. By asking a TO, you're introducing the possibility that he'll make the wrong ruling- and then all the other people who turn up with a legal army list (pretty much every Bretonnian player) get shafted as a result.

I had exactly the same problem at a recent tournament, where I made a choice in army selection that takes advantage of a particular rule (Use of High Elf Seer Staff to gain the Banishment spell once, and then aiming to roll it a second time with another Light Mage), and my games were going fine until someone decided we should "double check" with the TO if I could legally do this. Cue a 20 minute debate, in the middle of the tournament, wasting several peoples' time, with the TO just about to rule against me until I found the one line (across the rulebook's THREE different chapters covering spell selection) that allowed it. If I'd asked the question beforehand, by email, there's a good chance it would have been banned outright. Which isn't the end of the world, but still the -wrong- decision. Sample principle applies to asking GW questions - I know people who will take a clear ruling and ask the guys at GW they know, until one of them agrees with them, not to mention all those cases of CLEAR rules (Like what unmodified LD means, whether monstrous cavalry characters can be KBed) that got wrong answers. We'd have been better off without the FAQs there...

But anyway, rant over. Clarity is good, but introducing confusion isn't actually helpful :) The best path - as in my above example - is to just know exactly how to prove the rule you're making use of is correct should people query it. Then there's no need for any arguments or incorrect rulings. There's plenty of actually unclear rules to keep us all busy with, without needing to make clear rules into an FAQ point!

11-07-2011, 17:09
Edit: I remembered incorrectly.

11-07-2011, 20:05
I don't have the Empire rulebook, the Bretonnian one say cannot take additional equipment which means all the mundane gear options (but can take magical banner or magical items).

The old rule that you needed acces to a mundane shield in order to get a magical one was removed. If the Empire book specifically says: BSB cannot take shield then its a different discussion.
For me it prevents discussion at the tournament, because you didn't check beforehand you had to do during the tournament for 20 minutes. For me that destroys the fun of the game and wastes precious game time. Id rather have any answer beforehand (properly discussed with all the references provided to the judges beforehand, the magical shield discussion was eventually ruled in my favor). Still lets agree to disagree and keep it all more on topic.