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Bloodedsoul
19-07-2011, 14:16
Reading through this item, your magic items/equipment stops working when you are transformed, but do special rules? Say a daemon uses this, are the attacks still magical? wardsave work? what about special char rules? (that is if they can be given the item, not sure on that one) Say a vampire used it that was etheral, would the giant also be? (I believe transformation of kadoon has you keeping those). Are you still considered a character for challenges/spells like the curse of the lady?

Ramius4
19-07-2011, 14:28
Reading through this item, your magic items/equipment stops working when you are transformed, but do special rules? Say a daemon uses this, are the attacks still magical? wardsave work? what about special char rules? (that is if they can be given the item, not sure on that one) Say a vampire used it that was etheral, would the giant also be? (I believe transformation of kadoon has you keeping those). Are you still considered a character for challenges/spells like the curse of the lady?

You BECOME a Giant. That's it.

Tregar
19-07-2011, 15:22
That's a very direct answer, but not so sure if it's especially helpful Ramius4 ;)

From my reading, magic items stop working, but there's nothing stopping special rules from still applying. Same with Transformation, as Bloodedsoul notes. Few are likely to of especial benefit; a Vampire can't be both ethereal and have a magic item such as this one, so you don't need to worry about ethereal vampires rampaging through your lines in Giant form :)

Surgency
19-07-2011, 15:42
I think RAW and RAI are a little different here. As far as RAI is concerned, I think Ramius has it lock, stock. I believe the idea with this is that whatever you were before, you're now a giant.

However, as you point out Tregar, the rules for the helm don't specify if you lose special abilities. Its kind of iffy, but it says that you become a giant, using the rules found on page 104. It also states that you specifically use the profile of the giant, not just the stat-line.

drear
19-07-2011, 16:13
transformation of kadon means you loose everything and become the statline given.
if you were an ethereal mage you loose it, vampire looses his etc.

you become a giant, with the giants stats, type profile etc, you become the giant entry.

Tregar
19-07-2011, 16:35
Probably best to play it this way- imagine a Vampire with Red Fury jumping up and down on a unit...

I'm seeing from SoM that a lot of rules are kinda vaguely worded, seems like players will have to come up with solutions that are best in the spirit of the game. Thus I would probably agree with the RAI (And Ramius!) too then.

theunwantedbeing
19-07-2011, 17:33
transformation of kadon means you loose everything and become the statline given.
if you were an ethereal mage you loose it, vampire looses his etc.

you become a giant, with the giants stats, type profile etc, you become the giant entry.

The rules Disagree. (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1780263a_FAQ_Warhammer_Rulebook__V1_4.pdf)

You don't lose any special rules you have.
So an ethereal character wearing the gianthelm would become an ethereal giant.

Although with red fury, I'm not sure you'de get any extra attacks from it.
I personally feel this was a terrible FAQ answer, but thems the rules.

Gaargod
19-07-2011, 21:11
Yeah, giantkin helm + special rules gets a little insane. My personal favourite for amusement purposes is the Ethereal Giant with 4+ ward save (Slann with Higher State of Consciousness) Saying that, you do lose your lv4 wizard...

Vampires with red fury are even worse than you initially think. Giants, normally, only have 1 'attack', which has randomised effects. Therefore, if your giant perhaps does a jump up and down and does like 6 wounds, he gets to do 6 more 'randomised' attacks. For 250pts... that's pretty harsh.

Sexiest_hero
19-07-2011, 23:01
My lord I was going to use a Giant Vampire. Because it sounds cool. but I wouldn't do red fury if thats how it works.

Ramius4
20-07-2011, 04:11
My lord I was going to use a Giant Vampire. Because it sounds cool. but I wouldn't do red fury if thats how it works.

I wouldn't worry too much. This seems like a case where people are going to read too much into the rules. It's pretty safe to say that you become a giant. No more, no less.

drear
20-07-2011, 15:14
ah well thanks for that unwanted being, i hadnt seen the faq. but it would have been ncie to have a page refrence, as theres alot of entries in that faq only to find trasnformation of khadon at the BOTTOM.

so i think i may be giving my lvl 2 elf mage the giant helm, ASF will be rather interesting !

Bloodedsoul
20-07-2011, 17:42
I asked because i was giving the item to a herald of nurgle, and it is nice having a regening giant with magic attacks.

theunwantedbeing
20-07-2011, 17:49
ah well thanks for that unwanted being, i hadnt seen the faq. but it would have been ncie to have a page refrence, as theres alot of entries in that faq only to find trasnformation of khadon at the BOTTOM.


This is nit picking but it would also have been nice for you to type my username in full without spaces, also for you to use capitol letters and spellcheck.
:rolleyes:

Seriously though, my apologies.
Giving too much info often means people just don't check the reference.
Although I did leave that out due to laziness.:D

AlphariusOmegon20
21-07-2011, 01:11
Reading through this item, your magic items/equipment stops working when you are transformed, but do special rules? Say a daemon uses this, are the attacks still magical? wardsave work? what about special char rules? (that is if they can be given the item, not sure on that one) Say a vampire used it that was etheral, would the giant also be? (I believe transformation of kadoon has you keeping those). Are you still considered a character for challenges/spells like the curse of the lady?

Daemonic gifts should still work as normal. Daemonic gifts are NOT magic items.

Not sure about the rest, but I KNOW daemonic gifts will still work.

Tregar
21-07-2011, 11:39
Yes, Daemonic Gifts work as much as any other special rule still does. Surprised there's not been much uproarious threads about whether Daemons/Dwarfs can take these magic items!