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BigRob
21-08-2011, 22:47
So, hirelings. Those meatshiel.........I mean useful to have around guys who you got to tag along in later games of Heroquest, faithful to the last coin, handy in a fight, maybe filling a role in the party that is otherwise a disadvantage.

So do they have a role in WHQ?

I was thinking yes and after a thread on dungeonhiem (a WHQ/Mordhiem crossover) was started I had some ideas.....

So, lets start easy with the fighter. Bodyguard, mercenary, muscle, thug, this guy is all about the fighting. His job is to stand at the front and hit stuff, in return he gets paid alot of money.

Simple rule first, hire fee: 500gc + 100/Dungeon Level. Payable in advance.

M: 4
WS: 4
BS: 5+
S: 4
T: 3
I: 3
A: 1
Pinning: 5+
Wounds: 1D6+8

Weapons: Sword (1D6+S), Shield (+1AP), Light Armour (+2AP).
Equipment: 2 Bandages + 1/DL and a Healing Potion which only the Fighter will use, he does not share his healing.

3 Rolls on the following Table +1 extra roll per dungeon level.

1: Roll Again 1-3: +1T 4-6: +D6W
2: Roll Again 1-3: +1WS 4-6: +1I
3: Roll Again 1-3: +1A 4-6: +1 Damage Dice
4: Roll Again 1-3: +1WS 4-6: +1S
5:Roll Again 1-3: +D6W 4-6: +1 on Pinning Roll
6: Roll on the Skill Table below.

Skills:
1: Parry 6+
2: Shieldmaster: When using shield ignore first blow that hits you each turn.
3: Blade Master: Re-roll first missed attack each turn.
4:Magic Resistance 6+
5: Strike to Injure: On a 6 to hit, attack ignores opponents armour and toughness.
6: Dodge Blow 6+



So....what do you think? It's very rough at the moment.

S_A_T_S
22-08-2011, 19:24
It's an interesting idea, reminds me of the old Legend of Zagor boardgame I had.

I feel like this fighter should have strength 3 rather than 4. WS4 is probably acceptable, as he is a fighter. 500gc for an someone who is better than a lvl 1 barbarian could be overpowered early on. If I play my first dungeon, struggle and then hire your fighter, the fighter will be better than my main character! Keep him as a meatshield/distraction for the monsters.

I'd also suggest adding some rules about gear - is your fighter going to be able to use gear picked up in the dungeon? Will he stick to his own?

BigRob
22-08-2011, 21:29
No he won't be able to use any of the treasure, he uses his own gear (in the same way he won't share his bandages with the party, if they all die, he will walk off whistling). I was thinking some extra gear at higher levels, more armour and maybe better mundane equipment.

I see you thinking behind the overpowerdness but he weakens very quickly compared to your main character, having no access to treasure or the many boosts characters pick up on the way. Dropping his strength to 3 might help things along, maybe only one or two initial advances.

Thanks for the feedback.

"Fighter! You cower from my monsters! Take 2 Stamina Damage!"
Legend of Zagor was a fantastic game and the miniatures found thier way into my copy of Quest, Zagor himself being verything from a chaos lord to a master liche.

Jolly Puggles
23-08-2011, 07:36
He seems a bit cheap for what you're getting...perhaps add in that he demands a percentage of any loot found in addition to his hire fee. That would justify his high stats...at lower levels, he's more "guide" than "follower", but as the Heroes get better, he starts paling by comparison and falls into the "henchman" category (if they feel he needs to stick around at all). If he's nabbing some of the loot as well, you don't have to worry about better gear tables and such.

An alternative payment method is to use the Advanced Heroquest idea of buying/giving the henchman gear appropriate to his level (in addition to his 'hire fee'). For example, you hire him for 500gc+100gc/lvl, but once you get back to civilisation, if you want to retain his services, you must give/buy him loot equivalent to (Dungeon Level x1000)/2. If you do not, he wanders off in search of new employment. This way, the fee scales more dramatically with the level of danger and your hireling gets better stuff, so he can keep up with the party.

BigRob
23-08-2011, 10:23
That should deffinatly be in there Jolly Puggles, I am without a copy of the AHQ rules so had nothing to reference but that sounds like a good idea. The reason for his initial cheap cost is that IME by the time you get to town the party at level 1-3 doesnt have alot of spare gold, saving it for training.

abdulaapocolyps
23-08-2011, 15:45
I like the ideas here guys and have often thought about making if possible to hire any of the characters,being charged dependent on level and just treating them as a warrior of that type at that level,with only starting equipment.
I am not overly worried they will be overpowered,you would have to pay steep gold for them,gold you could be using to level up. Also,a powerful warrior will just take all the gold for monsters he kills,so your may get an easy dungeon,if you've all chipped in early doors for a powerful guide,but he will take the lions share of the gold and you won't get too far this way.
Seems a balanced idea,its just getting the cost right.

DelveLord
23-08-2011, 17:59
I like the concept! It would be cool to write some simple rules for actually hiring them. Perhaps you can search for a Fighter in the Alehouse or Fighting School, and need to roll a 6 or above (1 dice for Village, 2 for Town, 3 for City) to find one available.

I also second the idea that Hirelings shouldn't be as powerful as your BL1 starting Warrior! Personally I would knock both the Fighter's WS and STR to 3 to reflect this. It's hard imagining a hired sword having a greater WS than the Barbarian, and a greater STR than the Dwarf.

Jolly Puggles
23-08-2011, 19:14
Another idea, again cribbed from Advanced Heroquest, is that you could have a "basic" Henchman...he's a mediocre fighter at best and his stats won't improve, but you can arm him however you like and he's a cheap one-shot hire. He won't steal any party loot or treasure because he's got his hire fee paid already. Perhaps have several 'grades' of Henchman (Henchman, Sergeant, Captain), each costing more the better their stats.

Then you have a different type of follower, which is more like a Cohort in D&D...he sticks around with the intention of learning something from the Hero. His stats are based on the type of warrior you are...the Barbarian will attract a fighter/mercenary type, the Wizard attracts an apprentice, etc. (in AHQ, the Dwarf attracted a Trollslayer and the Elf a Wardancer, but seeing as these are already Warrior types in their own right, we may have to think up something else). His stats will improve as yours do and he sticks around on the proviso that you pay for his training and provide equipment. This follower would be more akin to the one you have in the OP. You could even have any gold he earns from monster kills be collected by the Warrior he follows, but he takes a percentage of all gold earned by the Warrior as his fee (in addition to paying training/equipment fees).

Something to think about, perhaps...

BigRob
23-08-2011, 22:04
So, I'm thinking

Hiring Fee X +X per dungeon level plus he keeps all the gold of monsters he kills (balances out parties that hide behind him and let him do the killing.)

I don't see a need to change his stats so much since at lower levels if you hire him, your missing the chance to level yourself (much like using hired guns in necromunda). This becomes a big thing since the dungeon levels at the average party level and if your lagging behind your going to be snack food.

Mundane equipment deffinatly for the first 5 levels or so, I see these guys being the bravo/tough/merc types you get guarding caravans in RPGs, the regular joe adventuring warrior who doesnt have the extra edge or fate points of the heroic warrior. After that maybe a random magic weapon and item, simply because of the number of monsters who need a magic item at that level.

Different types of hireling, maybe not just for fighting could include a guide who gives you travelling advantages, or a physician who can bring a level of healing for an all warrior party. I would be wary of a hireling mage, simply because of the potential power.

abdulaapocolyps
29-08-2011, 18:33
Yeah,makes sense.
I agree on the mages,they are potentially very powerful and should be tempered,also,they would be much more rare than a random warrior. A healer is a must though as at the moment life without a mage is not worth thinking about...

EldritchGamer
01-09-2011, 08:58
I love this thread - I'm definitely inspired to try and write something up myself. I agree with those who said that the Hireling shouldn't be too powerful early on. Having said that, as they don't pick up / use treasure, they will not likely outshine the Warriors if they have played a game or two already.

I particulalry like the idea of having different types of Hirelings - a Wizard hireling with basic healing abilities (maybe one healing spell and one attack spell) would be welcome, although I like the idea of an Empire Soldier / Mercenary with basic fighting skills and some kind of field pack of first aid items as well.

BigRob
01-09-2011, 15:34
An update of sorts with my newly re-written Fighter/mercenary/soldier/thug.

Hirelings and Mercenaries

Sometimes the warriors need a little help, maybe they are not the toughest fighters or they find themselves in need of healing and their wizardly companion is not up to the task. Then they can spend some of their hard earned gold on some help.

Hiring a Henchman
To hire a henchman the warrior must visit one of the locations listed as a hiring point for that henchman and make a stock roll. They need to roll over their current level +2 to succeed.

Henchmen of all kinds will take 500 +100/DL upfront as a non refundable deposit. In addition to this any gold they make through fighting or healing is kept by them as part of their fee. If they survive the dungeon then they can be re-hired for an additional 500gc + 500 for every time they were reduced to 0 wounds. Think of it as danger pay.

Henchmen can be given items of treasure and equipment but once given to them, it will never be returned. Even if the hirelings services are retained, this equipment or treasure will be lost before the start of the adventure.

Henchmen will never use their healing supplies on the other warriors unless otherwise stated. If the party are wiped out the henchman will flee unless otherwise stated.

Henchmen equipment is dependent on the dungeon level. See the weapon and equipment charts for each henchman.

Henchmen begin with a number of stat boosts and skills to represent their experience. Roll the given number of times on the table for each henchman. They can only have one of each skill, re-roll duplicates.

Warrior Henchman

Bodyguard, mercenary, muscle, thug, this guy is all about the fighting. His job is to stand at the front and hit stuff and in return he gets paid a lot of money.

Hiring Point: Alehouse

M: 4
WS: 4
BS: 5+
S: 3
T: 3
I: 3
A: 1
Pinning: 5+
Wounds: 1D6+8

Weapons:

1-3: Sword, Throwing Dagger, Shield, Light Armour.
4-6: Broad Sword, Pistol, Shield, Heavy Armour, Open Helm
7-10: Enchanted Broad Sword (+4 damage, ignores armour), Pistol, Shield, Full Plate Armour, War Helm.

Equipment:

1-3: 6 Bandages, Healing Potion.
4-6: 10 Bandages, Healing Potion, Potion of Strength.
7-10: 12 Bandages, 2 Healing Potions, Potion of Strength, Potion of Toughness.

3 Rolls on the following Table +1 extra roll per dungeon level.

1: Roll Again 1-3: +1T 4-6: +D6W
2: Roll Again 1-3: +1WS 4-6: +1I
3: Roll Again 1-3: +1A 4-6: +1 Damage Dice
4: Roll Again 1-3: +1WS 4-6: +1S
5:Roll Again 1-3: +D6W 4-6: +1 BS
6: Roll on the Skill Table below.

Skills:
1: Parry 6+
2: Shieldmaster: When using a shield ignore the first blow that hits you each turn.
3: Blade Master: Re-roll first missed attack each turn.
4:Magic Resistance 6+
5: Strike to Injure: On a 6 to hit, attack ignores opponents armour and toughness.
6: Dodge Blow 6+

EldritchGamer
01-09-2011, 15:50
A Hireling Thug could also add +1 to all rolls Settlement Events / Travelling Hazards sub-tables where the Warrior who hired them gets into a fight. However, roll 1d6 before using this bonus, on a 1, the Hireling ducks out at a vital moment, or otherwise makes the situation worse by intimidating/killing the wrong person, and you deduct 1 from your roll on the sub-table instead!

Purplebeard
01-09-2011, 19:59
I have a couple of thoughts:


Don't let beginner warriors have henchmen. They have no business having henchmen until they are at least decent warriors!
Maybe to make it simple, don't level the Henehmen up with the Warriors (for stats/exp/gold), but with their title - so, say a Champion could hire 1 Henchman for whatever, a Hero 2, a Lord 3 maybe.
As an extension of this, don't allow the Henchmen to gain experience, but make them standardised. The game should be about the Warriors.
If a group really likes a particular Henchman, then let them arbitrarily convert him to become a Warrior himself at the appropriate Battle Level.
Although the temptation is there to offer every race and type of Henchman concievable, this would get confusing. It would be a better idea to stick to maybe 2 or 3 types, with no/minimal special rules.

BigRob
01-09-2011, 20:36
A Hireling Thug could also add +1 to all rolls Settlement Events / Travelling Hazards sub-tables where the Warrior who hired them gets into a fight. However, roll 1d6 before using this bonus, on a 1, the Hireling ducks out at a vital moment, or otherwise makes the situation worse by intimidating/killing the wrong person, and you deduct 1 from your roll on the sub-table instead!

I was thinking of something along those lines for a scout type henchman who's job was to look after the animals and gear while the party went into the dungeon.

Purplebeard, which part of my first henchman did you think needed simplifying?

I get alot of the worry about letting basic warriors hire henchmen but when you look at the rules, henchmen kills take gold away from the party and they cost a fair amount to hire anyway, even at level 1 your looking at 600gc upfront. Not to mention you can't hire them until after your first adventure.

All feedback welcome, I'm working on a non magic healer type at the moment, aimed at warrior heavy parties.

Physician WIP

Physicians, healers, doctors, Quacks. These people believe in the power of healing from a non magical nature be it folk remedies or the new science of medicine. Every party needs someone to pick up the pieces after a fierce fight and if no magical aid is forthcoming, a skilled pair of hands is just what the doctor ordered. Physicianís jobs are to heal; they do not fight unless forced into combat. Warriors would do well to shield them from harm.

Hiring location: Temple

M: 4
WS: 3
BS: 5+
S: 3
T: 3
I: 3
A: 1
Pinning: 5+
Wounds: 1D6+7

Weapons:

1-3: Staff, Dagger, Leather Armour
4-6: Staff, Dagger, Light Armour, Open Helmet.
7-10: Enchanted Staff (+3 Damage, +3AP), Chain mail, Open Helmet.

Equipment:

1-3: 10 Bandages,3 Healing Salves, Healing Potion.
4-6: 15 Bandages, 6 Healing Salves, 2 Healing Potions
7-10: 20 Bandages, 9 Healing Salves, 4 Healing Potions,

Skills:
First Aid: If he does not move or fight during his turn the physician will, at the end of the warriors phase, restore D6W to a model in base contact.
Unlike normal Hirelings, the physician will use his healing supplies on all warriors as well as himself.

2 Rolls on the following Table +1 extra roll per dungeon level.

1: Roll Again 1-3: +1T 4-6: +D6W
2: Roll Again 1-3: +1 to escape Pinning 4-6: +1I
3: Roll Again 1-3: +1A 4-6: Roll on the Skill Table below
4: Roll Again 1-3: +1I 4-6: +1WS
5:Roll Again 1-3: +D6W 4-6: +1 1 to escape Pinning
6: Roll on the Skill Table below.

Skills:
1: Parry 6+
2: Surgery: When using the First Aid skill, the physician restores an additional D6W
3: Herbalist: The Physician will have an additional D6 Healing Salves per adventure.
4:Magic Resistance 6+
5: Dodge Blow 6+
6: Master Physician: Any time the physician uses a healing item it will restore an additional D6 wounds.

Purplebeard
02-09-2011, 07:25
I like your basic guy and I think that you have the balance right now, but please don't go OTT. I am iffy about giving them magic items and skills. A physician type is a good idea - maybe a Physician, Fighter and Ranger/Scout as your henchmen types?

BigRob
02-09-2011, 09:41
I wanted to go with the medic type to give an alternative to people who want to play a wizardless game in the same way the fighter is for people who want a party of wizards and priests. The physician has a good pool of healing items for quick fixes and his skill for healing when he runs out or if time is not a worry. The idea that you are forced to take a wizard bugs me a little and at higher levels he does IMO become the focus for the game either directly with damage or indirectly because you need his healing spells and attack buffs.

I put the magic weapons into the level 7-10 equipment for the fighter because of the number of beasties at that level that require a magic weapon to hit. Of course you can give the henchman any number of magical treasures....but you wont get them or thier gold value back which I feel balances it out. No one minds giving him the gem of +1 to escape pinning but players get grumpy about the idea of parting with thier sword of megadeath.

I agree about the possibility of OTT with this kind of thing, my only other major henchman idea was one who didn't go in the dungeon oddly enough, a guide/scout type who looks after the horses and helps with travelling events (a very perilous undertaking all that walking about).

EldritchGamer
02-09-2011, 11:12
The Physician is great :-)

For the scout / ranger, they could imbue special 'luck' points to the party of warriors according to the level of the party. Each luck point could be used to re-generate a travelling hazard that the party has rolled on a dice roll of a 4+. Alternatively, it may be used to re-roll the results of one roll on a sub-table of a travelling hazard. For example, if the warriors were ambushed, the scout may be able to influence the fighting by giving the warriors a better chance to respond.

1-3: 1 Re-roll
4-6: 2 Re-rolls
7-10: 3 Re-rolls

BigRob
02-09-2011, 18:50
Thats the kind of avenue I was thinking of going down.

Firstly reduce journey time, secondly make journeytime easier and lastly look after the animals to prevent them getting thieved.

Of course having them descend into the dungeon as a missile weapon specialist would be a bit cliche but is another angle. Tricky to put it down on paper, I found the first two were very easy to do because they fill a clearly defined hole in the game that occurs if you do not take a balanced team.