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Arnizipal
02-06-2005, 18:37
After the last time I swore I'd never play Diplomacy again, but in the end I gave in to my friends' constant nagging for a game. So now I'm England in a Diplomacy-by-mail game.

The guy who plays Germany said he'd go easy on me to let me grow some love for the game... of couse he betrayed me in an instant and now I have to struggle to protect my poor island from being crushed by a French-German-Russian conspiracy. :cries:
Does anyone of you happen to be a tactical genius that can get me out of this situation? (http://users.telenet.be/Jookje/Diplomacy/Groep1/06-najaar1902d.png)

This is the situation as it is now in winter 1902, so I have two moves left before command centres are counted again. As you can see my forces are going to get kicked out of Holland, and French and Russian fleets are threatening my command centres in Liverpool and Edinburgh...

I could take Belgium (attack from Holland, support from North Sea), but I'd never be able to hold it long enough to get a command centre for it. Besides, if i don't move the army in Holland to Edinburgh, Russia's army from Norway will move in, capturing the command centre there.

I could lose half my armies in these next two turns. And it's only been two years... :cries:

Oakenshield
02-06-2005, 23:20
Just quickly looking at the map (and it has been a few years so bear with me!) could you launch an attack on BEL from the fleet in MAN supported by the army in HDL which in turn is supported by the fleet in NRD in case of German attack?

Of course the ebst strategy is commit yourself as a "client state" to one fo the players...france maybe..and try and break up the alliance!

neXus6
03-06-2005, 00:01
I've not played diplomacy but I have wanted to for some time.

In addition to trying to ally with one of the alliance members you could also try to get an alliance with one of the other contries and try to get them to be agressive enough to be a distraction then hope that you can both put up a fight.
If you could get both of those things going you would be at the head of the 3 member alliance.

You could try the honorable tactic of lying, tell the french or russian player (or german if you want to trust them again :p) that you've got an alliance with someone else and that if they joined you you could all be very powerful, and send the same message about the other country to the one you said you had an alliance with. Best to aim for the weakest out of the 3 in the alliance you mentioned as they might be paranoid of being the next to be backstabbed.
It's a bloody long shot but it might just work.

:p

Oakenshield
03-06-2005, 00:05
Ooooh no never lie! First rule of Diplomacy!
Leave out facts and fudge the truth a little but never outright lie...no other player will trust you and you will die a lingering, lonley death....maybe....

neXus6
03-06-2005, 00:06
Well you could call it fudging the truth. ;)

It seems like he is going to "die a lingering, lonley death" if he doesn't do something seriously drastic.
Could try uniting all the other countries and the weakest member of the current alliance with statements of "You could be next." If nothing else them thinking about it might give you some breathing space if your lucky.

Oakenshield
03-06-2005, 00:12
I still think an alliance with France will be a good idea..tell the French player to stop pressuring Italy, and then try and orchestrate a Turko-Austro-Italiano attack on Germany and Russia.
Remember the game is about Diplomacy! Not which are the right tactical manouevours.

neXus6
03-06-2005, 00:19
I agree, that was along the lines of my kind of thinking, getting some immediate threat to distract their attention away from you. And with the pressure off you might be able to make some moves of your own from the other side. And noone likes a war on two fronts.
Looking back on my last couple of posts they should probably be held as a "last ditch attempt" if everything goes wrong.

salty
03-06-2005, 07:22
I've never played this game before but I must ask; does Britain have no Navy? And if so, where the hell has it gone?

I recommend you forget about this and get Hearts of Iron or Hearts of Iron II instead. Very fun. Unless you're Poland...

Salty :)

EDIT: Although, as a player of Diplomacy, you may be interested in this: http://www.variantbank.org/results/rules/w/warhammer1.gif.

I found it while looking at rule for Diplomacy and downloading a demo to try and figure out how to help you. The rules are here: http://www.variantbank.org/results/rules/w/warhammer.htm

Arnizipal
03-06-2005, 08:17
I've never played this game before but I must ask; does Britain have no Navy? And if so, where the hell has it gone?

My navy is occupying the Channel, the North Sea and guarding the harbour in the Liverpool area (sse the little blue ships?).

The largest problem I have right now is bargaining with the other players. I have nothing to offer and could be dead in two turns. Why would anyone listen to my pleas?
I've mailed Russia en Austria-Hungary, but they didn't reply so I can assume they're (still) against me. France seems somewhat interested in betraying Germany but I don't know if I'll live long enough to witness the backstabbing...

salty
03-06-2005, 08:23
ah, I expected them to be red you see. Can navies not fight each other? If they can, is it impossible for you to intercept one of the Russkie/French fleets?

Salty :)

Arnizipal
03-06-2005, 08:27
ah, I expected them to be red you see. Can navies not fight each other? If they can, is it impossible for you to intercept one of the Russkie/French fleets?

Fleets can indeed fight but all armies/fleets are each other's equal in strength so you need to fight (at least) two against one to drive an army/fleet away (it's not destroyed, it just flees).
A one on one battle has no clear victor and both parties stay in their territory.

EDIT: A rules summary can be found here. (http://www.bggfiles.com/viewfile.php3?fileid=5883)

salty
03-06-2005, 08:44
Hmm, I'd say take Belgium if you can. If that German army in RUH will defeat your army in Holland, but your army could defeat the French one in Belgium (bear with me!) then you will have gained an extra Centre for the next turn.

(e.g. UK attacks Belgium and captures it; Germany attacks Holland and takes Holland; UK still has lower Netherlands [Belgium] and a European supply centre.

Alternatively, UK holds in Holland; Germany attacks Holland, UK retreats/disbands; Germany controls Holland, UK has no European supply centre).

Even if you can only hold Belgium for a short while it would be worth it.

Also, if two navies occupy the same territory, does this cancel them out (e.g. stop them from unloading an army?). In this way you could tie up an enemy fleet and protect Belgium or Liverpool (although you'd tie up one of your own fleets in the process.

Salty :)

Arnizipal
03-06-2005, 09:02
Only one army/fleet can be in a territory. If two armies/fleets enter the same territory a battle is fought. If they were armies of the same nation, nothing happens and both armies remain in their starting territory (they 'bounce back').

Another thing is, command centres are only counted every two turns (during the 'winter' part of the game-year), so if I take Belgium now, I have to hold it next turn as well. I can only support as many armies as I have command centres (black dots). Right now I have four armies and four command centres. If I lose centre at the end of my second turn, one of my armies/fleets will be destroyed as well. :(

salty
03-06-2005, 12:06
Hmm, that really does suck. I was banking on it beinf "Autumn", and your Belgique command centre being counted even ass the Germans attack.

No idea there then mate. Not unless you can get France to betray the Germans, which they probably won't until you're out of the way.

Salty :)

Verergoca
03-06-2005, 14:34
*looks at map*

....


ok


....

*rummages in a box*

This might come in handy.

*hands over white flag of peace*

neXus6
03-06-2005, 16:32
If the French player is looking to betray the Germans that really is your best way to go. Considering he's going to end up having to fight the German and Russian alliance it would really be in his best interest to have your support wouldn't it?

That seems to be the only opening you have to play with so push it.

Arnizipal
03-06-2005, 17:18
I got an email of the French player.
He told me to check up on the Russians, as they want to invade me from the north and that 1903 will become an exiting year, with a spectacular climax of betreyal.
He won't attack germany as of yet as his "backdoor is wide open", whatever that means. Ah well, at least he's thinking it over.

So my possibilities for the next move are as follows:
Take Belgium : Since Holland is probably a lost cause I might as well move the army to Belgium with the support from the North Sea. Of course I probably won't be able to hold it during the winter (as in Belgium I'm even more surrounded than in Holland) and I'll **** off France which at this point is suicidal.
While I take Belgium Russia is free to take Edingburgh, which is another downside.

Retreat back to Albion : Block Russia's attempt to take Edinburgh by ferrying in my army from Holland. This way I give up my last hold on the mainland and it will cost me a command centre (and an army/fleet in the second turn). basically this will be a heroic last stand, as I'll never survive being surrounded like this.

Rock... hard place.... :(

neXus6
03-06-2005, 21:53
Well it would seem your only real option is to hold off the Russians. Do that and hope that you can try and reconsolidate your position on the main land once the pressures off...if the pressure stops.
Well it's very historical British forces having to leave the mainland...

Ripthorn
03-06-2005, 23:38
I think your best chance is to just pull out of the mainland. You are gonna lose that army else (your only one) and you'll have nothing to show for it. I'd work on the Russians, Germany is so open to an attack from Russia right now it's crazy. Might be worth talking to the Turks as well, try and get some action going on the Turk/Rus border. They are wasting their time going for Hungary anyway, presuming Italian support at the most. Italy can't make any major moves into Hungary with the French/German forces so close so Turkey will just grind into a standstill. They should be trying to work on the Fra/Ger/Rus alliance anyway, not squabbling with their most likely allies. :p

neXus6
04-06-2005, 04:46
I'll just sit back rather happy that someone who appears to at least slightly know what their doing, Ripthorn, agrees with me. The joys of being a novice.

I must say that does strike me as a very cool way to play the game though. Would beat spending a few days roaming around various rooms trying to keep your discussions secret.

Arnizipal
06-06-2005, 17:30
I'd like to thank you all for your good advice. I sent in my orders on Sunday and here are the results:

Here's (http://users.telenet.be/Jookje/Diplomacy/Groep1/07-voorjaar1903b.png) the map with all the moves (red is an attack, green is support/ferrying and gray is a failed attack).
The endresult is this. (http://users.telenet.be/Jookje/Diplomacy/Groep1/07-voorjaar1903c.png)

France is still too close for comfort, though it seems the French fleets are moving back home. France also didn't support Germany in its attack on Holland, so I would have kept it had I stood my gound. Meanwhile Germany opened a second front in Russia (I think he's going to invade Poland :p ), ending the treaty with that country (which means more allies for me).

Trying to take down germany is looking better and better. With me and Russia against him and (quite) possibly France, it could be an interesting end of the year.

One problem I have is conquering a new command centre so I don't lose a fleet/army. I think I may have to convince France to give up Belgium as the rest is well defended...

Commander X
06-06-2005, 18:08
I'm in favour of asking the France person for Belgium. Just tell him it is 'to decreas his borders with the German enemy'(Don't know if it works, just sounded good in my head.)

The grey ones will probably take Sue. to close the gap in their lines, and encircle the 'mainland' further. It might be interesting to talk about that with him/them.

wanderingblade
07-06-2005, 12:52
Its been ages since I've played, but is it possible to take Denmark - which appears both unprotected and belonging to someone you want to attack anyway? Admittedly, you'd never hold it in the long run, but if you could its a command centre to keep you going. In the long run your options appear to be wait for France to overextend and attempt a back-stab anyway.

Arnizipal
07-06-2005, 15:43
Yeah, but Germany also knows this, and he will probably move his fleet in from the Baltic Sea, so my troops will just bounce back.

wanderingblade
07-06-2005, 16:24
See if you can persuade Russia or France to support your attack? It'll weaken Germany nicely, so they'd hopefully be up for it.

Arnizipal
08-06-2005, 17:05
The following options open to me are:

- Take Holland with my fleet in the North Sea and French sopport from Belgium.
I have to rely on France for this and I don't know if I can trust him yet. Also, Germany can support Holland with the army in the Rurh, so even if I get French support, the attack could still fail.

- Take Denmark with my fleet in the North Sea. I can't get any support for this attack (Russia's armies are over sea), so if Germany moves its fleet in from the Baltic Sea, it's a stand-off and I don't get anything.

- Bargain with France to let me take Belgium. I think this is the most viable idea.

salty
08-06-2005, 17:26
I doubt the French guy will let you take Belgium, no matter how much bargaining you do. Unless its part of an elaborate ploy to draw Germany out of position and allow France an open attack on him.

I'd go for Denmark, and try to get the Russians to attack Germany at the same time.

Salty :)

wanderingblade
09-06-2005, 01:31
Do you have enough men to attack Holland and Denmark simultaneously/would Germany be able to block both moves?

Arnizipal
09-06-2005, 14:04
All armies/fleets are each other's equal in strength so you need to fight (at least) two against one to drive an army/fleet away (it's not destroyed, it just flees).
A one on one battle has no clear victor and both parties stay in their starting territory.

Also, to get my army from Edinburgh to Holland/Denmark I need to ferry it accross the North Sea using my fleet there. While carrying an army, a fleet cannot fight.

So no, I don't have enough armies/fleets to take both territories simultaniously. In fact, I don't have the manpower to outnumber Germany in any one territory...

wanderingblade
09-06-2005, 15:05
All armies/fleets are each other's equal in strength so you need to fight (at least) two against one to drive an army/fleet away (it's not destroyed, it just flees).
A one on one battle has no clear victor and both parties stay in their starting territory.

Also, to get my army from Edinburgh to Holland/Denmark I need to ferry it accross the North Sea using my fleet there. While carrying an army, a fleet cannot fight.

So no, I don't have enough armies/fleets to take both territories simultaniously. In fact, I don't have the manpower to outnumber Germany in any one territory...

I thought as much, but was feeling too lazy to look at the map to check/was rusty on sea dynamics. Not a lot you can do then, except to invade and hope you get lucky. I wouldn't give you Belgium if I was France, although its worth asking.