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Grocklock
06-01-2012, 14:56
As the question states,

The resson for asking is usually ideas of a limitted nature are snapped up no worries but this has lingered why is that?

raistlinuk
06-01-2012, 15:01
I suspect the main reason was because the mini's were not really directly compatible with GW's existing main games.

Space Hulk for example was very successful because both the Termi's and Stealers could be used for Marine and Nid armies in 40k. (Not to mention were just plain damn awesome minis).

Akkaryn
06-01-2012, 15:04
I suspect (with a high degree of scepticism) that it was not limited edition in the traditional sense.

They mainly advertised it as limited. Then would wait till sales died down until they stopped production. This means although still being "limited" they would get maximum sales.

Jedi152
06-01-2012, 15:07
In a nutshell;

- No nostalgia value like SH had.
- The mini's aren't compatible with a core game.
- Ships models, whilst being gorgeous, don't look as impressive as SH's.
- Fantasy simply isn't as popular as 40k, and ship battles aren't as popular as 'one-on-one' battles.

Having said all that, i love both games.

snottlebocket
06-01-2012, 15:19
It didn't fail per se. GW just had ridiculous expectations, ridiculous ways of trying to meet those expectations and ultimately failed to meet those expectations.

Other than that dread fleet didn't seem to sell badly for a very expensive boxed one off.

EmperorNorton
06-01-2012, 15:21
It is too expensive and too much work for a boardgame, while not giving enough options for a tabletop game.
A lot of people were disappointed because they wanted a fleet-based and expandable tabletop game.
The rag-tag fleets featured in Dreadfleet do not appeal to everybody. Neither does the design, which is a bit too much unfiltered John Blanche for my taste.

I also think that their aggressive "It's limited! Buy it now now now!" marketing spiel bit them in the ### when people did not fall for it immediately.

SkawtheFalconer
06-01-2012, 15:23
It was crazy expensive for what is essentially a board game.

It is also fairly limited in scope (how many times are you going to play those few missions, realistically?), also bringing its value into question.

IrishDelinquent
06-01-2012, 15:27
Man, there's a lot of these "Why did X Fail/suck" threads lately. So much negativity on Warseer these days!

In answer to the question, the big thing with Dreadfleet was the limited nature. Much like with Blood on the Badlands, I felt there wouldn't be support for it. It's a nice looking game, but it just seems after a couple months of scenarios and attention, GW will pull some more Space Marines out and say "Give us your money".

gutsmaka
06-01-2012, 15:30
warseer has always been negative. thats why we are affectionatly called whineseer by outsiders (and some insiders...)

Sinnertje
06-01-2012, 15:35
Naturally I cannot speak for others but my first, second and third impression on seeing dreadfleet was: "meh, little boats."

That said, I'm seriously considering buying the way overpriced space hulk set (on ebay), because it just looks way cooler.

Confessor_Atol
06-01-2012, 15:46
It failed?

Urgat
06-01-2012, 15:51
Naturally I cannot speak for others but my first, second and third impression on seeing dreadfleet was: "meh, little boats."

That said, I'm seriously considering buying the way overpriced space hulk set (on ebay), because it just looks way cooler.

Meh, little soldiers? Such a profound point.

drear
06-01-2012, 15:54
what do you mean by 'failed'

each store got a specific and limited amount of copies of the game, and most major stores sold out. i know my local store sold all its copies within a few hours on release day and then got shipped extras from the warehouse to cope with demand.

to games workshop it certainly didnt fail, imagine how much money they made out of the release within just 1 day.

Eddie Chaos
06-01-2012, 16:00
my local store sold out in the first weekend (20 boxes), re stocked and sold out again within a foughtnight.

Urgat
06-01-2012, 16:18
Dreadfleet has failed if GW didn't gain any money out of it compared to all the costs that led to the boxes in the stores. Anyone knows if that's the case?
Thought so.

Grocklock
06-01-2012, 16:20
Just to reply to coments posted.

In the area i am in it came out and sat on the shelve. and has not really sold. I also seeings it is still is present on the gw website. with this today blog implying that they still have alot of stok left. When you sell something as a limited item you what it to sell out quickly not still be around 6 months latter.

That counts as a fail in my mind. it is also based on the buzz around its release and since then. No one really tslks about it in a good light.

As far as the down beat of the topic i appologies I suppose i could of written the topic head in a different way maybe. Why is dreadfleet no succedding?

eldargal
06-01-2012, 16:21
Not this again. Until someone produces some hard evidence that GW consider it a failure this is a waste of time.

Moomoo
06-01-2012, 16:33
Not this again. Until someone produces some hard evidence that GW consider it a failure this is a waste of time.

I couldn't agree more, just because someone doesn't like a product it doesn't mean it automatically failed..

khaosmarines
06-01-2012, 16:40
because theirs no space marines in dread fleet!

Whitehorn
06-01-2012, 16:53
Yes it is expensive, but on par with other material-heavy deluxe games of the same bulk.

BigbyWolf
06-01-2012, 17:02
Not this again. Until someone produces some hard evidence that GW consider it a failure this is a waste of time.

This. Other than anecdotal evidence there is nothing to prove that it is a failure.

Also, a use of the search function would shown that there is at least one more thread already asking the same thing.

EDIT: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326596&page=4&highlight=dreadfleet

Like the above, which was actually closed in December, it's still available to read, so there's no need to create a duplicate.

snottlebocket
06-01-2012, 17:19
I couldn't agree more, just because someone doesn't like a product it doesn't mean it automatically failed..

That particular rumor is mostly based on the ridiculous manner GW pushed everyone to sell Dread Fleet boxes.

They tried to kept pushing my tiny local store shelf more boxes. They actually told them they were allowed to order 60 copies and made it sound like it was a huge favor.

Surgency
06-01-2012, 17:27
They tried to kept pushing my tiny local store shelf more boxes. They actually told them they were allowed to order 60 copies and made it sound like it was a huge favor.

Thats just the way GW reps do things :p MY LGS was told the same thing, after he bought 15 copies that never sold. GW kept demanding the LGS do stock checks, and he kept telling them to let him run his business his way, he maintains adequate stock levels of things that sell, and refuses to carry things that he'll never move. Eventually they give in

Lordy
06-01-2012, 17:32
There is a store owner that posts regular on Warseer that couldn't sell Flopfleet with 20% off.

I'd probably pay 45 delivered for it I guess.

My local store couldn't shift one copy so just ended up raffling them off.

Still have no idea if the games any good or not :S

hashrat
06-01-2012, 17:33
No one knows what it is, and it isn't 25, like Heroquest was.
It is a big layout on and unknown product.

Lousy reviews wont help either.

Malorian
06-01-2012, 17:46
I feel sorry for the local store that bought 10 of them...

Mallo
06-01-2012, 19:16
....and it isn't 25, like Heroquest was.



That may be because its no longer 1989! Inflation is nasty!!

I thought 70 isnt too horrid for what was a complete game. I would have expected something from another company for around 50-60 (the arkham horror games are around these prices in my not-so local comic shop) so the extra tenner covers GW's over-priced-ness (I think that is a word...)

Its just a shame naval battle games dont interest me otherwise Id have brought one, as it is a nice looking set.

Just waiting for a re-release of Mordheim (which Id happily pay 70 quid for) and a super over priced re-release of epic 40k (Id expect a price tag of over 100 quid for a huge box game of it again!)

They did go over board (see what I did there!:D) with the limited edition advertising though! But I take that as Gw's way of testing the waters (:eyebrows:) of yet another limited game, paving the way for (hopefully, fingers crossed!) more new games and re-releases of the SG section!
I think its mostly that most people expected dreadfleet to be missing from shelves from almost week one, and because there are still plenty kicking around stores people assume as a whole the game has sunk (:evilgrin:)

theJ
06-01-2012, 19:33
Can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I didn't buy it was primarily because I wouldn't've actually gotten a fleet out of it.

I was looking for an armada of warships - from quick cruisers, to massive juggernauts, to neato fireships and everything inbetween, all of it sprinkled with a touch of magic and just a tad too many skulls to be tasteful :p

The ships included in the box are not only about the same size, but they also lack any sort of cohesion - there's no way I can make those things look like a fleet.

Had they instead given me a full empire fleet, or a full chaos fleet, or a full elf fleet, or a full araby fleet... then we'd be in business.

In addition, pirates aren't quite as awesome as internet hype tends to claim. In fact they're usually quite silly.

decker_cky
06-01-2012, 19:40
Not enough hype...not enough information about it. I finally tried it over Christmas, and will probably pick it up at some point.

Garion
06-01-2012, 19:40
Did it actually fail?

snottlebocket
06-01-2012, 19:45
Did it actually fail?

They wanted to sell out on pre orders alone. Nobody even ran out of boxes as far as I can tell.

duffybear1988
06-01-2012, 19:45
I don't think it failed at all. It's simply the case that GW didn't make enough space hulk sets, and it makes dreadfleet look like none has sold. Actually still having boxes for sale is a good thing as it means that people such as me - who held off from getting it early on actually got a nice set for Christmas.

Yes it might get dull if you are playing it over and over, but as a nice alternative now and again it's perfectly suitable. I love playing this at my local club as we can each play with a ship and it means lots of friends can get involved without needing heaps of figures and massive boards like we would for say Apocalypse 40k games.

Garion
06-01-2012, 19:48
Even if it didnt sell well, which i suspect is just made up by someone that has no figures (as in numbers not models)

It is still a moral victory in my book, a bit like in the film Escape to Victory ;)

They made an interesting small scale game thats fun to play with beer and food. What more do you want :D

Confessor_Atol
06-01-2012, 19:50
I'm pretty sure this thread has failed

Jericho
06-01-2012, 19:51
because theirs no space marines in dread fleet!
I'm sure there's more truth to that than GW will want to admit.

But seriously, people in this corner of the interwebs sure to want to take anecdotal evidence for hard scientific fact. Just because your LGS didn't sell Dreadfleet like hotcakes doesn't mean it didn't sell out somewhere else.

I know a healthy number of folks who bought the set (myself included) and are itching to play a game. The detail level on the ships, and the desire to paint them in separate pieces to be assembled after, is the main reason why most of us haven't gotten around to playing it yet. It's not for a lack of interest.

If they were ****** little tokens that required no effort to clip out and plunk down on the gaming mat, we probably could have played a game by now but I doubt we would have bothered to purchase the game if that were the case.

lbecks
06-01-2012, 20:05
In a nutshell;

- No nostalgia value like SH had.
- The mini's aren't compatible with a core game.
- Ships models, whilst being gorgeous, don't look as impressive as SH's.
- Fantasy simply isn't as popular as 40k, and ship battles aren't as popular as 'one-on-one' battles.

Having said all that, i love both games.

I'd also add price to that list.

Malorian
06-01-2012, 20:16
In Canada at least, naval battles just aren't popular. I've seen people playing the various flying games but no naval battles.

Now things like Storm of Magic or Siege rules can at least relate to our current hobby. What GW basically expected was take a bunch of people used to fighting with tanks, knights, and magic, and then forget all of that and switch over to ships.

I think it would have done a lot better to just release a rule book and the mat and have rules in it as to how to build and point out ships for different races. Then people could build the ships they want, build up a fleet, and it relates to their regular gaming.

Unfortunately Malorian and Jind_Singh still aren't on the dev team ;)

Craze_b0i
06-01-2012, 20:35
In Canada at least, naval battles just aren't popular. I've seen people playing the various flying games but no naval battles.

Now things like Storm of Magic or Siege rules can at least relate to our current hobby. What GW basically expected was take a bunch of people used to fighting with tanks, knights, and magic, and then forget all of that and switch over to ships.

I think it would have done a lot better to just release a rule book and the mat and have rules in it as to how to build and point out ships for different races. Then people could build the ships they want, build up a fleet, and it relates to their regular gaming.

Unfortunately Malorian and Jind_Singh still aren't on the dev team ;)

But GW would never encourage you to build your own minis as that would be bad for business. ;)

jack da greenskin
06-01-2012, 20:52
Unfortunately Malorian and Jind_Singh still aren't on the dev team ;)

Would like to add emporer norton to that list, he could have helped them design their own version of uncharted seas :p (entirely intended as a compliment.)

Which would have been awesome. I'd have bought that, better than the spartan fantasy minis (of which none appeal to me), would fit with several of my fantasy armies, and would have been a cool 3rd core game that I could play in my local flgs.

Oh, and I'd have a fleet. Instead of a hodgepodge assortment of random ships.

Aeron
06-01-2012, 21:05
Worst.Random release.Ever.

why?

Almost a little bit of everything. The one part of it that warms the cockles of my heart it thinking of the poor greedy guys and gals who bought 10 copies each and either lost money or are stuck with them. Good luck with that.

...Now lets never speak of it again.

Nate.

EmperorNorton
06-01-2012, 21:19
Would like to add emporer norton to that list, he could have helped them design their own version of uncharted seas :p (entirely intended as a compliment.)
The reviews I've read make it sound as if GW did that anyway. The gameplay and some of the mechanics appear to be remarkably similar, as far as I can judge that without having read the Dreadfleet rules myself.
I don't think GW's game designers have copied Spartan's rules, though. Most of this likely comes with the territory. After all there are only so many ways you can translate ship combat into a game.

While there may not be any hard scientific data (and there never will be, so anybody who is adamant about having that as the basis for discussion should probably just keep out of threads like this one) I still consider Dreadfleet to have failed.
Eventually it will sell out and GW will have made a tidy profit, so it's not a disaster for them. It might very well be for the stores that have a dozen copies sitting on the shelves, though. Those stores will think twice about ordering a game like this from GW again in the future, so it might hurt them after all.
Space Hulk sold out from the manufacturer before the release date. GW themselves never said how many copies they made, but several people have heard that it was 80000.
We know that they made 65000 copies of Dreadfleet and they still haven't sold out three month after release.
I find the lack of interest on the secondary market even more telling. The copies I have seen on ebay have sold for 20% less than the suggested retail price, and the prices for newer listings seem to be falling still.
If they fall low enough I might pick up the game after all (for the mat and the terrain).

popisdead
06-01-2012, 21:21
I blame the internet

Commissar_Kahl
06-01-2012, 21:24
I will point out, like I did in the other "Dread Fleet failed" thread that every sale of Dread Fleet to and FLGS is a sale. GW doesn't give a skaven's bottom if the indie never sells it. The sales rep and GW still got credit for the sale, therefore it's not a fail to GW. They are out to make money, which I am sure they did. This was a one time stand alone game so they have no vested interest in ensuring players buy and play their game. As long as someone buys it, and in this case I think they deliberately knew it would be mostly FLGS's, collectors and e-bay'ers who bought it.

So as far as I am concerned I am sure Dread Fleet did exactly what GW wanted it to do therefore it was a success to GW.

The question should be discussing GW's tactics of ramming it done indies throats and milking all the can out of a one time sale and what that does for the hobby as a whole.

or we could discuss why player's didn't buy more copies and why they are or aren't playing the game, although I think that thread exists too.

Craze_b0i
06-01-2012, 21:36
What I don't get is why they make anything limited edition? Maybe someone who understands retail can explain this to me...

EmperorNorton
06-01-2012, 21:42
What I don't get is why they make anything limited edition? Maybe someone who understands retail can explain this to me...

It made sense in the case of Space Hullk and Dreadfleet, because they could not produce all the components in-house, so limiting it to a set number makes planning easier.
It's also a good incentive for potential buyers who are undecided. Not knowing whether they'd still be able to buy the product a little while down the road may very well push them to buy it. (Although in the case of Dreadfleet this approach has put GW in a "the boy who cried wolf" situtation.)

It makes absolutely no sense to me in the case of Blood in the Badlands, because it's no problem at all to produce a second run later on when you sell out.
And don't even get me started on the Battlemagic cards...

thesheriff
06-01-2012, 21:54
....because it wasn't Warhammer BFG in water.

They missed such a great opportunity :(

thesheriff

valle
06-01-2012, 21:59
My personal opinion was that it was simply way to much work painting all those boats and i simply dont have the time for it, when I wanna paint (and painting is not my favorite part of the hobby) i paint my army.

And I dont believe for a second that sci-fi is more popular than fantasy, descent is a great game that have done pretty well i reckon, as did old timers such as hero quest.

Urgat
06-01-2012, 22:52
While there may not be any hard scientific data (and there never will be, so anybody who is adamant about having that as the basis for discussion should probably just keep out of threads like this one) I still consider Dreadfleet to have failed.

Surprise!
You already claimed it was failing, it wasn't even released yet.

BigRob
06-01-2012, 23:05
Simple, it wasn't space hulk.

Spacehulk has 2 previous editions, loads of WD content, extra books, computer games and a massive amount of nostalgia.

A new and very, very well produced 3rd edition was going to be a massive, massive hit.

Compare this to a game that had almost nothing known about it, some kind of naval combat game...not man'o'war...pirates you say? Undead..huh?

And naturally it didn't do as well.

EmperorNorton
06-01-2012, 23:12
Surprise!
You already claimed it was failing, it wasn't even released yet.

That's simply not true.
While I stated that I did not like the design nor the "marketing" and much prefer the competition in the form of Uncharted Seas, I expected Dreadfleet to sell better than it appears to have sold.

WarmbloodedLizard
06-01-2012, 23:31
for the same price i can get 2 superior board games that will be more fun to play and don't require painting, etc.

BobtheInquisitor
06-01-2012, 23:48
Superior in what way? Better ship models? More Warhammerishly wacky?

Please name these cheap-yet-superior games that somehow appeal to the same customers as Dreadfleet, because I have never heard of anything like them.

Or do you just mean to say that games like Chess and Checkers are cheaper?

EmperorNorton
07-01-2012, 00:12
Superior in what way? Better ship models? More Warhammerishly wacky?

Please name these cheap-yet-superior games that somehow appeal to the same customers as Dreadfleet, because I have never heard of anything like them.

Or do you just mean to say that games like Chess and Checkers are cheaper?

I'd say take a look at the top 100 on BoardGameGeek (http://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame/page/1?sort=rank) and take your pick.

t-tauri
07-01-2012, 00:25
Thread closed. Duplicates existing thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325030).