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Commissar JVE
07-01-2012, 19:43
Is it better to have a 10 man unit in a rhino or a 5 man unit in a razorback? :confused: whats the best way to make the best of a tactical squad?

Freman Bloodglaive
07-01-2012, 19:51
Three ways now.

Flamer/multi-melta/combi-melta in a Rhino. Park midfield, threaten with multi-melta or drive by flamer horde units.

Multi-melta/melta/combi-melta in a Rhino, combat squad. Melta and combi goes in the Rhino and drives around shooting tanks. The multi-melta objective sits.

5 man, Razorback, twin-linked plasmagun and lascannon. The 5 marines basically make the Razorback scoring. Without the upgrade options they're not very good.

snake-eyez
07-01-2012, 19:55
You can use "combat squads" to split a 10 man uit into two five man groups. 10 men squads are the most points efficient, and allow a free heavy weapon (missile launcher or multi melta) and a free flamer too.

90 points for 5 men with no upgrades vs 170 points for 10 with a flamer and missile launcher, and you can split it into two squads of 5, most people here would favour the full squads. You can keep them as 10 man squads in kill points games, and combat squad them for objective games (so each squad of 5 can try to hold an objective on their own).

I use two 10 man squads in rhinos, and another 10 man squad that combat-squads so 5 (including sgt and flamer) go in razorback with captain, and the other 5 sit back with a lascannon to try to snipe enemy tanks.

sean_scanlon2000
07-01-2012, 21:36
i've always run mine as combat squads with razor backs. it might not be the most effective and at times a rhino would be better. but i had always had fun with splitting them up. establishing a semi permanant fire base while the remainder of my marines drive forward and kill off what they can and the take objectives. in kill point games it tends to be a bit of an issue but i usually relish the challenge.

The Marshel
08-01-2012, 01:33
it's harder to get tactical squads wrong then you'd think and unless you're playing in a very competitive mindset your own preferences and local environment will have a far greater effect on what's best then most advice on warseer.

There are a few things to keep in mind for tactical squads
1: never more then 3 squads in less then 2000 points. If you need more troops, plan to combat squad or take an objective babysitting scout squad

2: Avoid expensive add ons that dont add much to the unit

3: Choose your heavy weapon wisly.
-Heavy bolters are worthless
-Missiles are best if you think you might want to combat squad
-Lascannons are best if you know you're going to combat squad
-Multimeltas are best if you know you aren't going to combat squad and don't intend on camping out in the backfield all game
-Plasma cannons aren't that great imo, but at least they're fun, unlike heavy bolters.

4: as you may have guessed by #3, have a pretty good idea of if you're willing to use combat squads on a particualr squad of tactical marines when you write the list. Combat squads can be very useful if you plan ahead, but certain set ups really don't gain much from it.

5: special weapons are hard to stuff up, but unless 6th ed changes things, avoid plasma guns. while we're talking plasma, plasma pistol sarg's look cool, but aren't woth the points

6: Sarg with a special cc is up for debate and to be frank, down to personal taste. Many argue that tacticals don't need power weapons to bring down units they can handle in cc and as such take just a chainsword, some argue that the powerfist opens up new viable cc targets, some argue that that if they can't deal with it using a basic power weapon tacticals should stay away from it. All these areguments are reasonably valid in their own way, so go with what you like and see what works best for you/you enjoy most

7: combi weapon sargs are a great boost to the squad, but combi weapon + special cc weapon adds up fast. Not saying dont do it, just be careful that you dont overspend on tactical squads by giving them all powerfist and combie meltas. Never take combi plasmas on tacticals

8: in 95% of playing groups, LGS, GW etc, you need some kind of transport. If you're in that magic 5% of playing groups that don't use excessive mech and as such have not created an environment that requires excessive mech, we all envy you! (but seriously, get a transport)

9: prob best to avoid drop pods unless you really want to commit to the idea. 10 man rhino unit is versatile in whether you combat squad it or not, razorback squad must be combat squaded. I'd sooner take a 10 man squad with attached razorback then a 5 man squad with razorback. it's more expensive but you get a long range troop unit to bunker down on the home objective and a special weapon for the razorback squad, which is far better then a 90 point+ scoring upgrade on the razorback

10: tactical marines are not some godly unit that will kill your opponents army effortlessly. they are not aggressive like GK or grey hunters, they support and they hold the line. don't hesitate to jump on a weakened unit that you know you can take, just make sure you know when you can't take on a unit. Know when to stand back and shoot, know when you can get into cc and win and know when to run away as fast as possible while the termies/preds/speeders/etc deal with it and your tactical should do alight

Can't think of much else off the top of my head. A lot of people think lowly of tactical marines, but at the end of the day they are a reasonably solid unit in a reasonably solid army. It's difficult to get them too wrong tbh and even if you do really badly, the rest of the army should still hold up alight anyway. It'll mostly come down to what you find best in your local meta, but as i've quickly mentioned above, there are a few things to try and avoid

3 0f 6
09-01-2012, 08:24
advice on tacticals

That was some very decent advice!

hazmiter
09-01-2012, 08:34
Blood angels players shun tactical squads imho, and they are a viable option for them imho.
Assault squads go draw fire, tactical goes combat squads and one half sits other footed it, or turbo rhinos to the objective, or you keep as full squad and turbo rhino to a location, following turn, you fire heavy weapons and special weapons from a mobile bunker. Ba players should have at least 2 tactical, 4 assault, 1 devestator squad. Or swap a assault squad for foot dc in rhino, as the rhino can deliver the dc where needed, and keep the tacticals and assault safe for a turn or 2.

End result, a tactical squad is just that, a situational unit that can do many things well, but not perfect, and as such, not threatening if fielded with high priority targets that your willing to draw fire with.

sprugly
09-01-2012, 10:33
Don't feel that you always need to combat squad. If you take the free heavy weapon don't feel you need to leave him still. The heavy on the move can fire his pistol so at most you only loose 1 bolter shot from having a heavy weapon.

Sprugly

The Marshel
09-01-2012, 11:38
That was some very decent advice!

Thank you


Don't feel that you always need to combat squad. If you take the free heavy weapon don't feel you need to leave him still. The heavy on the move can fire his pistol so at most you only loose 1 bolter shot from having a heavy weapon.

Sprugly

only valid if you take a free heavy weapon, but you will 90% of the time. This is why i favour the MM myself. I can advance without worrying about it, but if any tank dares come close to me i can stop and take a shot. It's job is to create a small zone of exclusion for av. It's not the best at it, but if i never have to fire it all game then it's either worked or it didn't need to work. Odd logic but it works better for me then carrying around a missile launcher i will never get anything out of (don't like combat squads personally, 5 power armour bodies isnt to durable and i like to be reckless, more fun)

hazmiter
09-01-2012, 12:22
I'll take that advice, mm over the missile, much like. Scary for av, not so for others, so ill be running that. Ta.

witchunter180
09-01-2012, 13:12
I've been running the 5-man units with razorback, but I was running 6 of them and the sgts had power fists. Now, while they rarely get to close combat, my opponents know to stay away from them because they're supported by stronos razorbacks . However, the whole idea of maxing out my troop choices came about with the idea of taking 6, 10-man tactical squads. The 6 razorback formation isn't really be effective as SW GH's in razors b/c of the lack of special weapons. For the points, the advice The Marshall gave is a much better option; I actually learned something today lol THX Marshall!