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Deff Mekz
12-01-2012, 19:11
I've noticed a few people of this forum asking what units fit which bloodlines so I thought I'd rustle something up.

Part 1: Blood Dragons

The Blood Dragons (BD) are embodiments of martial pride and their armies reflect this. This will mean that you BD army will not include many big monsters nor will your Lord be a high Lvl magic user. This job would instead be given to a Necromancer slave/savant/bootlick :p who would naturally take up the task a true BD would not soil his hands with. As your core the best unit to fit the theme is probally Skeletons, as Ghouls are not exactly a good example of solid ordered ranks, nor zombies for that matter. For your special and rare choices you should stray away from units like Terrorgheists and Crypt Horrors becuase of their lumbering bestial nature. Instead units such as Grave Guard, Black Knights and Blood Knights fit far better with the martial theme while still being good units overall. If you really wanted to fit some beasties into your list, then the Zombie Dragon and the Varghulf/Vargheists are your best bet, with the ZD standing as a cruel mockery of a once noble creature (very BD ;) ) and the Varghulf/Vargheists being a symbol of the BD's ferocity. Fast units like Bat Swarms and Fellbats are more Von Carstein/ Strigoi's bag, so if you want some nice fast units Dire Wolves are probally the way to go, they fit in nicelywith the red colour scheme of the army too!

The Vampires themselves;

Vampiric Powers
These Vampiric Powers fit the BD theme;

Red Fury (take this everytime for a BD)
DreadKnight (this too while your at it)
Mortal Strike
Quickblood

Magic Items/Equipment
BD's are blessed here in the fact that pretty much anything goes. Just don't include anything magicy eg; Bound Spells and it will fit the theme. Also BD's traditionally wear Full Plate/ Heavy armour so make sure they have a high armour save to represent this.

In summary;

Units a BD army will frequently include;
A BD Vampire (duh), Skeletons, Necromancers, Wights, Black Knights, Blood Knights,Zombie Dragons

Units a BD Dragon army will sometimes include;
Zombies (easy for Necromancer to raise), Ethereal Units, a Vampire underling, Black Coach

Units a BD army will rarely include;
Varghiests, Varghulf

Units a BD will never include;
Crypt Horrors, Crypt Ghouls (unless you have a Strigoi underling in your army) , Terrorghiests, Black Coach, Coven Throne, Mortis Engine, Corpse Cart, Abysmal Terror

This is just Part 1 for now, I working on a Necarch one at the moments. Critque and comments would be much appreciated. Cheers, Deff.

colonel kane trine
12-01-2012, 19:32
Cant wait for the necrarch one!

NitrosOkay
12-01-2012, 19:53
I might disagree on Curse of the Revenant, always a Strigoi power in books past.

Let me dig out my old book.

Blood Dragons: "Using a small, tactically flexible force of elite troops is the Blood Dragon way of waging war, because this leaves plenty of scope for individual feats of arms. If the Black Knights were of Brettonian origin during their lives, they will still fight in their renowned lance formation.

Lords: Vampire Lord, Vampire Count
Heroes: Vampire Thralls, Wight Kings
Core: Black Knights (must take barding, may fight in Lance formation), Grave Guard, Skeleton Archers
Special: Skeletons
Rare: Black Coach, Banshees"

Man I forgot how awesome this book was.


Necrarchs: "Necrarch armies almost always include major necromantic constructs, such as Winged Nightmares and Zombie Dragons. So great is their power over their unliving minions that these huge beasts can fight on their own without the need for a rider to directly control them.

Lords: Vampire Lords, Vampire Counts
Heroes: Vampire Thralls, Wight Kings, Wraiths, Necromancers (All heroes may ride Winged Nightmares or Zombie Dragons)
Core: Skeletons, Zombies
Special: Dire Wolves, Fell Bats, Black Knights, Grave Guard, Spirit Hosts
Rare: Black Coach, Banshee, Unridden Zombie Dragon, Unridden Winged Nightmare"

Lahmians: "The armies of the Lahmian Vampires are similar to those of ancient Khemri, being based on vast hordes of Skeleton Warriors, but the greatest surprise for their enemies is having to face living heroes fighting alongside the Undead. These naive fools strive to prove their loyalty to their beloved one by exhibiting daring feats of arms, eager to receive the blood kiss and join the Vampiress in eternal living death.

Lords: Vampire Lady, Vampire Countesses
Heroes: Vampire Thralls, Wight Kings, Wraiths, Necromancers, Swains (Swains are heroes from any other Warhammer armies book, equipped exactly as in their own book. If the Lahmian general, the object of their desire, is destroyed then the Swains will be subject for the rules for hatred and frenzy for the rest of the game.)
Core: Skeletons, Bat Swarms, Dire Wolves
Special: Black Knights, Grave Guard, Spirit Hosts, Banshee
Rare: Black Coach"

Strigoi: "Normally an undead army is a shambling wall of corpses slowly advancing in numberless ranks. Completely different, a Strigoi army is more like a pack of howling predators rushing towards the enemy with cannibalistic intent.

Lords: Vampire Lord, Vampire Counts
Heroes: Vampire Thralls
Core: Ghouls, Bat Swarms, Strigany (Humans of the old Strigoi kingdom, equipped like Empire swordsmen.)
Special: Charnel Guard (super ghouls), Dire Wolves, Fell Bats
Rare: Banshee"

von Carsteins: "von Carstein armies are unique because the peasants of Sylvania still consider them their legitimate rulers and will fight for them. This creates a strange mix of living and undead troops in the core of their armies. The eldritch powers of the von Carsteins also attract large numbers of bats and dire wolves to their hosts and it is also rumoured that more than one Black Coach has been seen following their armies.

Lords: Vampire Lord, Vampire Counts
Heroes: Vampire Thralls, Wight Kings, Wraiths, Necromancers
Core: Skeletons, Zombies, Bat Swarms, Dire Wolves, Fell Bats, Sylvanian Levy (Crossbowmen, Free Companies, Archers, Huntsmen, All Alive!)
Special: Black Knights, Grave Guard, Spirit Hosts
Rare: Black Coaches, Banshees"



Old Bloodline rules might be interesting too for inspiration.

von Carstein: "von Carsteins are the archetypal Vampires of the Old World. Vampires' characteristics and options in the army list are based on them so they don't get any additional rules."
Necrarch: "+1 to casting results. +1 Magic level. Thralls can use arcane items. Cannot choose any mundane weapons or armour. -2 to weapon skill."
Blood Dragon: "+2 to weapon skill. Lords and Counts automatically wear full plate armour (+4 armour save) but generate one less power dice than normal. Must always issue and accept challenges."
Lahmian: "+2 to initiative. All models in base contact with one or more Lahmian Vampires suffer -1 to their leadership. Cannot choose any mundane weapons or armour. -1 to weapon skill."
Strigoi: "+1 attack and Hatred for Vampires. 5+ ward save for Lords and Counts 6+ ward save for Thralls. Cannot choose any mundane weapons or armour. Cannot choose any magic weapons or armour. Always fight on foot. Cannot carry battle standards."

BeatTheBeat
12-01-2012, 20:15
Great initiative, looking forward to the next ones. Might be a good idea to "reserve" posts on page 1 for them?

Cheers,
BTB

Lord Zarkov
12-01-2012, 20:20
I would disagree with Vargulfs and Vargheists being frequently in a BD army. I imagine their opinions of them would be similar to their opinions on the Strigoi bloodline - i.e. degenerate monsters only fit for them to slay to prove their mettle.

The Red Duke's army had a few ghouls as well (he regarded them as Bretonnian peasants and they were easy to dominate).

I would amend your summary to the following:

Units a BD army will frequently include;
A BD Vampire (duh), Skeletons, Necromancers, Wights, Black Knights, Blood Knights, Zombie Dragons, Abyssal Terrors

Units a BD Dragon army will sometimes include;
Zombies (easy for Necromancer to raise), Ethereal Units, a Vampire underling

Units a BD would rarely include:
Crypt Ghouls, Vargheists, Necromancer Lords

Units a BD will never include;
Crypt Horrors, Vargulfs, Ghoul Kings , Terrorghiests, Black Coach, Coven Throne, Mortis Engine, Corpse Cart

This is just Part 1 for now, I working on a Necarch one at the moments. Critque and comments would be much appreciated. Cheers, Deff.

NitrosOkay
12-01-2012, 20:22
Black Coaches are specifically referred to as used by Blood Dragons in the old Vampire army books by the way. They also rarely have the aptitude or inclination to create large necromantic constructs, so Abyssal Terrors are right out and Zombie Dragons would be rare. They also do not care for Necromancers and prefer to raise a small, elite force of Grave Guard and Black Knights.

Lord Zarkov
12-01-2012, 20:29
Black Coaches are specifically referred to as used by Blood Dragons in the old Vampire army books by the way. They also rarely have the aptitude or inclination to create large necromantic constructs, so Abyssal Terrors are right out and Zombie Dragons would be rare.

Duh, how did I miss the coach. Can't see it being as common as for VC/Lahmian though, probably a 'sometimes' or 'rarely'

Abyssal Terrors don't have to represent necromantic constructs per se, they can also represent other monsters like Dieter Helsnitch's Manticore, or a Griffon, etc. Either the vampire could have bound the still-living creature to his will, or raised the corpse of a defeated monster.
Probably should have suggested it for sometimes though.

Similar should apply to the dragon (although they'd be less likely to encounter one), although GW seems to disagree ;)

Sedekiel
12-01-2012, 20:37
I believe that Deff wrote em down as they should be...

+1

It seems that the book starts to rly move the creative juices and that is always a good thing...
BTW if the Bat swarm new cloud of horror rule actually stands, then some REAL Von Carstein lists will start to pop up filled with zombies Skellies wolves and Bats...ah good times

Deff Mekz
12-01-2012, 20:56
I would disagree with Vargulfs and Vargheists being frequently in a BD army.

I know what you mean but it kind of limits the options some what. I'll move the Varghulf to rarely include, and shift the Vargheists to sometimes include. My reasoning is that Vargheists are basically just Vampires that were buried alive for some wrong doing/ failed uprising and eventually lost their minds and becmae Varghiests.

I can kind of imagine Blood Dragons using this as the greatest punishment to those try to upsurp them. Afterall becoming a Vargheist must a BD's greatest fear considering they would lose all of their martial [ride and become that that they abhore.

I know the BD used to be able to the Black Coach but to me it is VC unit not a BD unit. I'll move it to rarely include.

Edit: BTB I'll just edit the 1st post.

Oh and Nitros thanks for that buddy, that will be of great help!

NitrosOkay
12-01-2012, 21:03
Incidently the old powers are interesting as well. Amused that Games Workshop hasn't come up with many new names in ten years.

von Carstein: "Summon Bats, Call Winds, Walking Death, Summon Wolves, Aura of Dark Majesty, Wolf Form"

Blood Dragons: "Red Fury, Blademaster, Heart Piercing, Master Strike, Strength of Steel, Honour or Death"

Necrarch: "Nehekhara's Noble Blood, The Awakening, Dark Acolyte, Unholy Cynosure, Master of the Black Arts, Forbidden Lore"

Strigoi: "Curse of the Revenant, Massive Monstrosity, Bat Form, Infinite Hatred, Summon Ghouls, Iron Sinews"

Lahmian: "Seduction, Domination, Quickblood, Innocence Lost, Transfix, Beguile"

Skywave
12-01-2012, 21:19
I know what you mean but it kind of limits the options some what. I'll move the Varghulf to rarely include, and shift the Vargheists to sometimes include. My reasoning is that Vargheists are basically just Vampires that were buried alive for some wrong doing/ failed uprising and eventually lost their minds and becmae Varghiests.

I can kind of imagine Blood Dragons using this as the greatest punishment to those try to upsurp them. Afterall becoming a Vargheist must a BD's greatest fear considering they would lose all of their martial [ride and become that that they abhore.

I know the BD used to be able to the Black Coach but to me it is VC unit not a BD unit. I'll move it to rarely include.

Edit: BTB I'll just edit the 1st post.

Oh and Nitros thanks for that buddy, that will be of great help!

But a themed army is not about doing some compromise to have variation and more choices. If you want to go with a real Blood Dragon theme, you are willingly constricting yourself. Strigoi were hated by their Vampire kin, hunted by them even. So all Strigoi-heavy units should not be included for the other bloodlines.

Maybe some stuff have changed in the new fluff though.

But hey, it's you list anyway, you can make all the compromised you want! Everyone might have it's own view on how it should be done, it's not like it'll affect the game for anyone :p

And did you put Bats (both type) and Wolves in you list? Unless I missed them they aren't there. Those kind of units are generic enough to be available to all bloodlines, so should end up in the "sometime" mostly (maybe always for Von Carstein).

Iron_Lord
12-01-2012, 21:41
The new "Ghoul King" lord choice seems to fit Strigoi- with the difference that it has full access to magic items (excepting armour).

That said- at least one Ghoul King (Vorag Bloodytooth) predates the fall of Strigos considerably. Maybe it's a "lifestyle" (like that of the Varghulf) that any vampire can follow?

Lord Zarkov
12-01-2012, 22:04
The new "Ghoul King" lord choice seems to fit Strigoi- with the difference that it has full access to magic items (excepting armour).

That said- at least one Ghoul King (Vorag Bloodytooth) predates the fall of Strigos considerably. Maybe it's a "lifestyle" (like that of the Varghulf) that any vampire can follow?

Strigoi vampires are frequently referred to as "Ghoul Kings" in the fluff, and are frequently kings of Ghouls. IMO it always seemed a little silly banning them from having magic items, especially with the fluff pieces about the collecting magical trinkets.

With regards to Vorag, due to a partially redacted fluff change in 6th Ed, there are now two Vorag's.

The original, who pre-dated Strigos, and by all accounts was an actual Ghoul rather than a vampire; and the later Vorag who was a a Strigoi vampire who gathered a group of ghouls to go and try and refound Strigos.

Elfwolf
13-01-2012, 01:02
Some good ideas here. Though you can always convert counts as stuff for a themed army if the existing models/fluff dont fit the theme. For example I am converting some dark pegasus/hellsteed riding blood knights to count as vargheists in my bretonnian themed blood dragon army.

quietus1986
13-01-2012, 04:52
my strigoi theme army is even lower on chose in the current book but from tomorrow.
know its vamp lord, vamp hero crypt ghouls, Varghulf, and terrorgheist's. that's all I us to use in a strigoi army. know it will be ghoul king. vampire hero's, crypt ghouls , crypt horror's, (varheist only if the fluff fits from what I have been reading I don't think so. a vampire buried and transformed by warp stone infused water ), varhulf fits better than the varheists becose they represent strigoi vampire's that have gone completely wild , terrorgheist

Leogun_91
13-01-2012, 11:54
But a themed army is not about doing some compromise to have variation and more choices. If you want to go with a real Blood Dragon theme, you are willingly constricting yourself. Strigoi were hated by their Vampire kin, hunted by them even. So all Strigoi-heavy units should not be included for the other bloodlines.Necrachs fondness of experiments makes me think feeding crypt ghouls vampire blood could be something they would do however, even if the unit is most definitively Strigoi themed.

The new "Ghoul King" lord choice seems to fit Strigoi- with the difference that it has full access to magic items (excepting armour).The updated infernal pact rules refer to it as a "Strigoi Ghoul King" so I do believe that's what it's supposed to be.

my strigoi theme army is even lower on chose in the current book but from tomorrow.
know its vamp lord, vamp hero crypt ghouls, Varghulf, and terrorgheist's. that's all I us to use in a strigoi army. know it will be ghoul king. vampire hero's, crypt ghouls , crypt horror's, (varheist only if the fluff fits from what I have been reading I don't think so. a vampire buried and transformed by warp stone infused water ), varhulf fits better than the varheists becose they represent strigoi vampire's that have gone completely wild , terrorgheistWell bats fit them too, even if you chose not to use them.

the_picto
13-01-2012, 12:01
my strigoi theme army is even lower on chose in the current book but from tomorrow.
know its vamp lord, vamp hero crypt ghouls, Varghulf, and terrorgheist's. that's all I us to use in a strigoi army. know it will be ghoul king. vampire hero's, crypt ghouls , crypt horror's, (varheist only if the fluff fits from what I have been reading I don't think so. a vampire buried and transformed by warp stone infused water ), varhulf fits better than the varheists becose they represent strigoi vampire's that have gone completely wild , terrorgheist

I'm choosing to ignore the vargheist fluff and just assume they are vampires that haven't quite made the transition to full varghulf yet.

Strigoi armies could also include wolves, bats and zombies I think.

malisteen
14-01-2012, 03:27
Do you mind if I take a crack at the Strigoi?


Strigoi are decrepit and deranged eaters of the dead, and generally lair in cold, damp places with ready access to corpses (caves near cemetaries, ruins near battlefields). These places are also preferred nesting grounds for tribes of ghouls, who are drawn to the necromantic presence of the Strigoi as mortal men are drawn to great and charismatic leaders. Hordes of ghouls will wait upon the vampire and its progeny, flitting vestiges of the humans they should have been moving them to take on a slightly less bestial aspect.

Like the other bloodlines, particularly the Necrarch, Strigoi are prone to experimenting with their minions. However, where the necromantic experimentations of the Necrarch vampires are based in a combination of esoteric sorcery and surgical procedures, the Strigoi employ much a much more instinctive, personal approach. Strigoi vampires will allow favored servants to drink from their tainted blood, flooding their chosen servants with the warping influence and nightmarish vitality of the cursed dark magic within them. In ghouls, this produces the abominations known as crypt horrors, monstrous in strength and stature.

The collosal, dragon-like bats that haunt the dark forests of the old world, share similar tastes in lairs with the Strigoi, and the beastly vampires greatly favor such creatures as companions and even mounts. Terrorgheists are created from these creatures in a similar manner to Crypt Horrors. The vampire will allow the creature to feed on its blood, tainting the monstrous bat with the curse of undeath and a measure of dark power, while binding it forever to the vampire's will.

Ghostly spirits such as hexwraiths, wraiths and banshees also make their homes in old graveyards and battlefields, drawn by the lingering aura of sorrow and death. Though most Strigoi lack the arcane talent to truely bind such spirits, they can still be drawn to and entrapped by the vampire's inherent aura of dark magic, as with lesser undead.

Some Vampires lose their minds and even their physical forms completely to their bestial hunger, becoming Varghulfs. Others, Moved by desperation to consume warpstone after going too long without proper sustenance, are twisted into the frightful Vargheists. Both of these monstrous horrors that were once vampires stalk the land, desperate for blood. Unlike the other bloodlines who either shun or enslave such beasts, Strigoi sometimes take pity on these creatures and provide them with fresh kills. The monstrous vampires in turn show great loyalty to the Strigoi, and viciously attack any perceived threat to their new masters.

Strigoi Ghoul Kings, as degenerate as they are, still maintain a regal self image. In their minds they are princes and kings of men. They believe their lowly status as parasites on the outskirts of mortal society is born purely of the worst kind of injustice. As such, they favor the trappings of wealth and nobility. Many will create a mockery of a royal court within their lairs, stolen treasures and fine tapestries hanging above rotting carcasses and excrement; mindless zombies or near-mindless ghouls granted imaginary titles and holdings and honored positions, and at times the vampire will hold council with its silent, shambling court of advisers - asking questions of his mute servitors, and carefully considering the imagined replies.

Other Strigoi, rather then try to decorate a lowly lair, will instead seek homes that already have an atmosphere of austere and ancient nobility. Such is typical of the more lucid and ambitious of the Strigoi bloodline. These vampires favor royal crypts, forgotten catacombs, or the barrows of long dead kings as lairs. These places are also the home of wights - ancient human nobility whose spirits have been bound to their corpses after death through rituals that have been part of human tradition since the times of ancient Nehekara. As vampires, Strigoi are powerful foci of necromantic magic, and their very presence will awaken these kings of old from their immortal slumber. Like other undead, wights are drawn to the vampire's deathly aura of command, moved to serve and follow them. For the Strigoi, these decayed soldiers form an elite honor guard fit for a true king.

Finally among the common servants of the Strigoi are the least of the undead - zombies of humans and other creatures. These will also be found in the Strigoi's presence. Every vampire is a living nexus of dark magic, beacons of necromantic energy. Even without concerted effort, a vampire's instinctive will is enough to rouse nearby corpses to a pale mockery of life. As Strigoi are more frequently found on the outskirts of society, bestial zombies are as common in their presence as humanoid zombies, and one will usually find animate corpses of bats and wolves roaming the countryside near a Strigoi's lair.


The remaining fell creatures, constructs, and individuals associated with the undead of the old world are not typically found among those serving the Strigoi. That said, there are always exceptions.

Necromancers and Corspemasters are not frequently drawn to Strigoi, as the bestial vampires are not known to be great practitioners of magic, nor do they usually hire the services of necromancers or corpsemasters in the creation and maintenance of an army as some Blood Dragons do. Some especially reckless or twisted individuals do seek Strigoi as objects of study however, and more then one has been drawn into the vampire's insanity, taking on the role of a trusted vizier to their new corpse-king.

Most Strigoi don't bother animating skeletons, lacking interest in the necromantic arts necessary to create them, and in any event preferring the ghouls that are drawn to them naturally or the zombies that stir to life in their presence without any particular effort for the bulk of their legions. However, Strigoi that have entrapped a necromancer within their madness may also find themselves in command of skeletal regiments animated by their wizardly vassal.

Unlike some of the other vampyric bloodlines, Strigoi are relatively solitary creatures when it comes to their own kind. Though they will create new vampires, they do not gather great vampyric courts as the Von Carsteins, Blood Dragons, or Lahmia do. As with Necrarchs, all Strigoi are touched in some way by an inhereted madness, and rarely is the insanity of one individual sufficiently compatible with the insanity of another to allow long term cooperation. In any event, the twisted forms of the Strigoi do not lend themselves to armor or mounted combat. As such, the elite cavalry regiments of vampire thralls that are sometimes found among the other families, in particular the Blood Dragons, are almost never seen among the Strigoi. Likewise, it is practically unheard of for a Strigoi vampire to be found lounging on one of the sorcerous palaquins favored by the Lahmian sisterhood.

Strigoi also generally don't have the sorcerous leanings, long-term planning, or loyalty to others of their kind that would lead them to create black coaches to regenerate their fallen, although an especially lucid member of the bloodline might be able to manage the creation of one to restore an especially favored thrall, and a vampire that had attracted the services of a mad necromancer might find such an engine constructed for them should their vizier survive their fall.

When it comes to interactions with other bloodlines, individual Strigoi have sometimes sought to serve other vampires, seeking to attach themselves to a more powerful patron. Notably, a large group of Ushoran's progeny offered fealty to Vashanesh during the elder vampire's time in the north. Usually, other vampires reject such offers, as indeed did Vashanesh, perhaps fearing contamination of their bloodline by the Strigoi's madness. But such is not always the case, and on occasion Strigoi vampires have been found leading hordes of ghouls to battle under another bloodline's banner. The reverse, however, is never the case. All the other bloodlines look down on the Strigoi, and none would willingly serve them.


In summary:

A Strigoi army will always include:
- Strigoi Ghoul Kings

A Strigoi army will almost always include:
- Ghouls, Crypt Horrors

A Strigoi army will frequently include:
- Zombies, Dire wolves, Bat Swarms, Fell Bats, Vargheists, Varghulfs, Terrorgheist

A Strigoi army will sometimes include:
- Grave Guard, Black Knights, Wight Kings, Wraiths, Hexwraiths, Banshees, Necromancers

A Strigoi army rarely include:
- Skeletons, Master Necromancers, Corpse Carts, Mortis Engines

A Strigoi army will almost never include:
- Black Coach, Blood Knights, Heinlich Kemmler, Krell, Vampire Lords, Vampires

A Strigoi army will never include:
- Vlad Von Carstein, Isabella Von Carstein, Mannfred Von Carstein, Konrad Von Carstein


It's arguably never been easier to make a Strigoi themed army. With Ghoul Kings as a lord choice and Crypt Horrors and Vargheists added to the book, there's one or more solid choices for each category in the army.

Unfortunately, ghouls have taken something of a hit in the new book, being two points more expensive per model and losing the options for vanguard and for being raised above starting size. While every Strigoi army worth its salt is going to field at least one good ghoul horde - and their offensive ability should still be enough that you won't regret doing so - most will want to supplement their core selection with zombies and dire wolves. Fortunately, both are well within acceptable thematic territory for the Strigoi, particularly if your ghoul king has managed to obtain the services of one or more necromancers, which, for all that they're a bit of a stretch thematically, I still heartily endorse.

Zombies in particular are important if there's any possibility that you might get stuck playing the banner-based scenario, as none of the units most closely associated with the Strigoi have the ability to take standards.

While Grave Guard aren't completely out of character for Strigoi armies, Crypt Horrors can provide much the same battlefield role, and are a much better fit thematically, and aesthetically they fit right in with the Ghouls and Ghoul King you'll already be fielding. A unit of grave guard, or a BSB wight king, may still be necessary for banner toting purposes, however, and they won't serve you poorly if you take them.

Vargheists can provide a frighteningly fast and powerful, if quite fragile, unit for terrorizing the enemy backfield, as can varghulfs in your rare slots, and bats of all varieties are useful in the new book, from the debuffing swarms to the fellbats dirt cheap deployment drops to the terrorgheist - which remains a powerful tool in the vampyric arsenal for hunting monsters, elite cavalry, and other threats that would make mincemeat of your infantry in melee.

The Corspemasters, with their Corpse Carts and Mortis Engines, aren't the best fit for Strigoi in general, though both can be justified as they tend to make their homes in the same forgotten crypts, battlefields, and graveyards as the Strigoi and their ghoulish minions, and mechanically they both work well in conjunction with the units you're already taking. Ghouls have enough initiative that the ASF from a Corpse Cart would actually give them rerolls to hit against slower enemies such as dwarves or ogres, and would certainly appreciate even the minimal regen save granted by the Mortis Engine. Crypt Horrors under the same effects become absolute monsters.

While monster riding heroes will never be an an optimal choice in 8th edition, the ability of lesser casters to take over control if your general dies does make the terrorgheist riding ghoul king a more palatable option than in the past, and the vampire's built in 5+ regen frees up some points to spend on more offensive options.

In terms of bloodline powers, there are a number of thematically appropriate options for ghoul kings, include curse of the revenant, red fury, flying horror, supernatural horror, fear incarnate, summon creatures of the night, and arguably even aura of dark majesty. For magic items, a decent magical weapon is a good call, any of the potions can be helpful, the other tricksters shard can help when stuck in with other characters, but no Ghoul King worth his salt ever leaves home without their trusty dragonbane gem.

BEARO
14-01-2012, 03:56
Blood Dragons: "Using a small, tactically flexible force of elite troops is the Blood Dragon way of waging war, because this leaves plenty of scope for individual feats of arms. If the Black Knights were of Brettonian origin during their lives, they will still fight in their renowned lance formation.

Lords: Vampire Lord, Vampire Count
Heroes: Vampire Thralls, Wight Kings
Core: Black Knights (must take barding, may fight in Lance formation), Grave Guard, Skeleton Archers
Special: Skeletons
Rare: Black Coach, Banshees"

Man I forgot how awesome this book was.

I can't wait to get my book so I can write this out as an army list!

Ville
14-01-2012, 08:13
Do you mind if I take a crack at the Strigoi?

...



Mesmerizing work, malisteen. I hope the fluff in the new army book will be as good, but I somewhat doubt it...:cool:

It would be cool to see as much in-depth analysis of the Von Carsteins, too.

Eddie Chaos
14-01-2012, 09:30
In summary:

A Strigoi army will always include:
- Strigoi Ghoul Kings

A Strigoi army will almost always include:
- Ghouls, Crypt Horrors

A Strigoi army will frequently include:
- Zombies, Dire wolves, Bat Swarms, Fell Bats, Vargheists, Varghulfs, Terrorgheist

A Strigoi army will sometimes include:
- Grave Guard, Black Knights, Wight Kings, Wraiths, Hexwraiths, Banshees, Necromancers

A Strigoi army rarely include:
- Skeletons, Master Necromancers, Corpse Carts, Mortis Engines

A Strigoi army will almost never include:
- Black Coach, Blood Knights, Heinlich Kemmler, Krell, Vampire Lords, Vampires

A Strigoi army will never include:
- Vlad Von Carstein, Isabella Von Carstein, Mannfred Von Carstein, Konrad Von Carstein




Personally I would drop the skellys, grave guard, black coach, Mortis engine and both kinds of knight from that list.

Lord Zarkov
14-01-2012, 10:31
In summary:

A Strigoi army will always include:
- Strigoi Ghoul Kings

A Strigoi army will almost always include:
- Ghouls, Crypt Horrors

A Strigoi army will frequently include:
- Zombies, Dire wolves, Bat Swarms, Fell Bats, Vargheists, Varghulfs, Terrorgheist

A Strigoi army will sometimes include:
- Grave Guard, Black Knights, Wight Kings, Wraiths, Hexwraiths, Banshees, Necromancers

A Strigoi army rarely include:
- Skeletons, Master Necromancers, Corpse Carts, Mortis Engines

A Strigoi army will almost never include:
- Black Coach, Blood Knights, Heinlich Kemmler, Krell, Vampire Lords, Vampires

A Strigoi army will never include:
- Vlad Von Carstein, Isabella Von Carstein, Mannfred Von Carstein, Konrad Von Carstein

Looks good!
I would suggest though moving Hero-Level Vampire up to "rarely" or possibly "sometimes" however, as a particularly powerful Strigoi might very well have one or two thralls - also in small games you might not be able to fit a Ghoul King in.

Iron_Lord
14-01-2012, 11:25
I wonder- in last edition, Strigoi were represented by ordinary Vampires with the Ghoulkin power and other Strigoi-appropriate powers?

Might the same principle be usable in this edition- with a Ghoul King representing the most typical Strigoi, but a normal Vampire with the right powers representing "less devolved" ones?

Lord Zarkov
14-01-2012, 11:34
I wonder- in last edition, Strigoi were represented by ordinary Vampires with the Ghoulkin power and other Strigoi-appropriate powers?

Might the same principle be usable in this edition- with a Ghoul King representing the most typical Strigoi, but a normal Vampire with the right powers representing "less devolved" ones?

I would say so, particularly the Hero level ones who could represent 'younger' ones.

malisteen
14-01-2012, 11:43
Mesmerizing work, malisteen. I hope the fluff in the new army book will be as good, but I somewhat doubt it...:cool:

It would be cool to see as much in-depth analysis of the Von Carsteins, too.

Thanks. Von Carsteins are my main army, though the wealth of new Strigoi themed options is tempting me to start a side project (I don't care what the book says, Vargheists are a Strigoi option :p), so if nobody else steps up I'll post something similar to my strigoi write up for Von Carsteins sometime this weekend. Von Carsteins have a lot of fluff out that I haven't read, though (vampire wars trilogy, the new Von Carstein time of legends book), so I'm more likely to make some mistakes, there. I'm sure other posters would correct me.


Personally I would drop the skellys, grave guard, black coach, Mortis engine and both kinds of knight from that list.

It's not a binary 'take this / don't take that' list, it lists everything in the book based on how appropriate it is for Strigoi armies on a sliding scale. I rate most of those options as 'rarely' appropriate for Strigoi armies, so as far as I'm concerned we already agree on them, with the exception of Black Knights. Black Knights are simply wights buried with their horses - they are found in the same places and raised in the same way as regular wights, which for vampires requires no special effort.

I listed the reasons why I consider wights to be somewhat appropriate for Strigoi armies, if less so then ghouls and dire wolves and terrorgheists. Strigoi have a regal self image, but tend to live in or near crypts, tombs, and cemetaries. As such they would prefer tombs of an ancient and regal nature, exactly the places wights are found, and the Strigoi's inherent nature will rouse and attract those wights on its own. The wights themselves, mounted or otherwise form a regal host that further complements the Strigoi's self image.

Again, they're not as thematically appropriate as some other options, but their definitely more thematically appropriate then, say, skeletons, corpse carts, or blood knights, imo.


Looks good!
I would suggest though moving Hero-Level Vampire up to "rarely" or possibly "sometimes" however, as a particularly powerful Strigoi might very well have one or two thralls - also in small games you might not be able to fit a Ghoul King in.

I'm considering just that. The book lacks a hero version of ghoul kings, which I would have rated higher. However, I suppose regular vampires could represent spawn of ghoul kings - in which case newly created thralls have not yet fully transformed into their twisted and ghoul-like final forms. I'll probably edit the original post accordingly later today.


I wonder- in last edition, Strigoi were represented by ordinary Vampires with the Ghoulkin power and other Strigoi-appropriate powers?

Might the same principle be usable in this edition- with a Ghoul King representing the most typical Strigoi, but a normal Vampire with the right powers representing "less devolved" ones?

In your army, anything that makes sense to you fits just fine - that's why I rated things from 'common' to 'almost never', reserving just 'never' for the VC special characters only. There's always exceptions and re-fluffed conversions.

I'm personally disappointed that the Ghoul King can't take more magic levels. Sure, most ghoul kings don't take up the study of magic, but that 'most' implies that a few do, and I like to have the option to play against type. Plus, a ghoul king with four levels of magic and caster upgrades and items would, to me, be a better fit for a necrarch lord then a regular, armor wearing vamp, but whatevs.

Iron_Lord
14-01-2012, 11:49
With regards to Vorag, due to a partially redacted fluff change in 6th Ed, there are now two Vorag's.

The original, who pre-dated Strigos, and by all accounts was an actual Ghoul rather than a vampire; and the later Vorag who was a a Strigoi vampire who gathered a group of ghouls to go and try and refound Strigos.

The 7E codex does call Vorag Bloodytooth of Cripple Peak "the first and only Ghoul King" - and unlike the 8th ed codex, does not refer to the Strigoi after the fall of Strigos as "devolving into the Ghoul Kings"

eldargal
14-01-2012, 12:06
I'm not sure I agree with skellingtons under rarely, given that ghouls eat the flesh of the dead one would think they would have a lot of defleshed skeletons lying around.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with Lahmians.:)

malisteen
14-01-2012, 12:09
Oh, they'll have a bunch of bone piles, but skeletons require some effort for a vampire to animate - they aren't as easy as zombies, and unlike wights they don't just get up on their own in a vampire's presence, you actually have to bother casting spells to animate them. Strigoi can do it, but they generally don't bother, it's more frequently done by Necromancers if a Strigoi has happened to attract one.

Then again, there are always exceptions. Generally, though, the more skeletons I see, the less I think "Strigoi" when looking at an army, so that's why I put them there.

eldargal
14-01-2012, 12:12
Fair enough, I was just thinking more along the lines of 'sometimes' rather than 'rarely' personally.:)

Sexiest_hero
14-01-2012, 12:28
I'm sure all the skeletons will have been gnawed. Plus crypt ghouls use hip bones for clubs.

malisteen
14-01-2012, 13:13
They're a borderline case between 'sometimes' and 'rarely'. As are necromancers, for that matter. I admit to letting gameplay concerns bump the necromancers up to sometimes - the extra casters are just too necessary in my mind.

I also forgot spirit hosts entirely, and on second review hexwraiths seem less likely then regular wraiths or banshees to be found hanging out with Strigoi, IMO. They'll be part of the adjustments to the list that I'll be making later today.

Skeletons are still on the border line to me. I'll give them another thought.

ashc
14-01-2012, 18:46
Great thread idea. Consider me subscribed!

eldargal
17-01-2012, 11:29
I hope you don't mind but I made a list of units which would suit a Lahmian themed army, I thought I'd post it here:

Lords:
Vampire Lord
Master Necromancer

Heroes:
Necromancer
Vampire
Wight King
Cairn Wraith
Tomb Banshee

Character Mounts:
Skeletal Steeds
Nightmare
Hellsteed
Coven Throne

Core:
Zombies
Skeletons
Ghouls

Special:
Corpse Cart
Grave Guard
Black Knights
Fel Bats
Bat Swarms
Spirit Hosts
Hexwraiths

Rare:
Blood Knights
Cairn Wraiths
Mortis Engine

Vampire Powers:
Master of the Black Arts
Quickblood
Aura of Dark Majesty
Forbidden Lore
Beguile

I could see most others being included depending on the background of the specific vampire, with the exception of Flying Horror and Supernatural Horror.

I have a basic little explanation of why I've included things here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=19354), but I didn't go into much detail.

This is all just my opinion and I welcome all feedback.:)

Jim
17-01-2012, 11:51
I'm toying with a Strigoi themed list at the moment, so I really enjoyed reading your take on the theme - thanks for taking the time to do this - very useful!

Jim

Righthandedtwin
17-01-2012, 12:54
I always loved the Strigoi going back to when they first appeared in 6th ed. I recall what unit devouring monstrosities they were and watching my friends orc army slowly break and flee from his charge.

The increase in Strigoi and thier thematic units is rather interesting to me though I had always believed or atleast been lead to believe from my local hobby center that Strigoi were the least popular option of all the vampires to take and even in last edition were very difficult to field themed armies for. The rise in thier popularity and explosion in unit choices for them interests me.

So if we take VC as the "core" or "common" list and assume that about 80% of the armies list is present in the typical VC army (minus of course terrorgheist, CH, Varghulf? and Mortis Engines) as one of the most prolific blood lines they are more likely to abandon mortal necromancer servants in favour of all Vampire deployments.

Then we know Strigoi feature the lowest amount of "common" undead and are very very unlikely to feature any wights at all with necromancers being an uncommon sight in thier half-dead hordes of ghouls and risen forest beasties, though wouldn't a thematically strict Strigoi army only include one maybe two characters at most afterall due to the nature of the Strigoi taking thralls would be difficult/rare.

The Blood Dragons would seek out great warriors leading Wight Hosts and abandoning weaker Hordes of Undead (skellies and zombies) as well as possibly only keeping one or two pet Necromancers with more fanciful constructs being unheard of.

Okay so yea where was I getting to here? oh right a Necrach army would be largely the same as a Necromancer army only the Necrach displaces the MN as general with the Necrach taking mortal necromancers over thralls (more loyalty) and a much higher number of common Undead and Constructs in thier forces...

Aside from the Coven I can't think of anything to thematically fit with the Lahmians whose old lore suggested thier armies more closely resembled the TK's forces.