Ask the Longbeards about the good old days of Fantasy Background

[Craze_b0i]

It's how it is in the realm of chaos books

Hmmm I have just been looking in Slaves of Darkness and can't seem to find that. Do you have a page reference?

[dalezzz]

Your gonna make me reread them ? :p from what I remember it was covered more in the 40k parts and maybe in lost and damned? all that stuff about sensei warbands is ringing a bell, will have a look through them later , just for you ;)

[james_chevallier]

Urmm...Does anyone know a book about Great War Against Chaos?

[Craze_b0i]

Your gonna make me reread them ? :p from what I remember it was covered more in the 40k parts and maybe in lost and damned? all that stuff about sensei warbands is ringing a bell, will have a look through them later , just for you ;)

lol no worries, if you don't know offhand I will investigate further on my own. ;)

[dalezzz]

So I've had a bit of a read through the nurgle tzeentch book ( forget the name) and it's how it is in there , right at the start. However I have a nagging feeling it's not stated as being this way in the khorne slaanesh book . The nurgle tzeentch book being the newer of the 2 .

In wfrp I'm pretty sure it's a pantheon like the Greek gods , mannan, taal, morr ect are all related and I'm fairly certain nothing about the gods being made from emotions is in there ... Not read every source for wfrp 1 though I'm afraid :) of course the family ties could be a human invention rather than a "how it is" thing

[liddan]

Does anyone have any additional information about the steam tank mentioned on page 185 of the warhammer rulebook? Name Ancient Fury a.k.a. Old Rustbucket. Have/had double cannon. Any info would be helpful. I have googled like mad and read the different stea, tank threads.

[Arnizipal]

At a certain point (when the previous steamtank model was released during 6th edition) there was a page on the Games Workshop website with the history of all built tanks, but Ancient Fury wasn't among them IIRC.
I think the one mentioned in the new rulebook is an entirely new invention.

EDIT: For all things steam tank, check out this post (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?260487-What-are-the-remaining-steam-tanks-called-and-which-are-the-special-ones&p=4700596#post4700596) (you gotta love the internet archive) :cool:

[Lastavenger]

I have stupid question: What is relation between dwarfs and chaos dwarfs? Do they hate each other?

[Francis]

I have stupid question: What is relation between dwarfs and chaos dwarfs? Do they hate each other?

With a vengeance. The Dwarfs hardly even acknowledge that the Dawi Zhar exists.

[CommanderCax]

I have stupid question: What is relation between dwarfs and chaos dwarfs? Do they hate each other?

'I do not hate them,' said Gotrek eventually. A complex mixture of emotions was evident in his voice; sadness, embarrassment and hate. 'I hate what made them. I hate what they tell me about myself.'

[Spifflespore]

Hello Longbeards.

Gotta zip off to work. Spent my coffee break trying to figure this out: Storm of Chaos - Garagrim Ironfist was sent by the Slayer King to aid Ice Queen of Kislev. I assume around that same timeframe Ungrim Ironfist was back at Karak Kadrin holding off Grimgor Ironhide... who within a year since the Black Orcs emergence from the Dark Lands had a host ready to lay siege to Slayer Keep.

Also: Gnashrak's Lair is cited as a Goblin Stronghold in the O&G books. Could this be related to BB personality Gnashrak Blackhoof? I like to picture a forlorn DoomBull sitting in a throne in a lonely keep filled with his goblinoid slaves/minions. Maybe the minotaur is so unhinged he has lost touch with the Ruinous Powers to a degree and just festers in his mountain lair?

Whatcha think?

[Arnizipal]

Gotta zip off to work. Spent my coffee break trying to figure this out: Storm of Chaos - Garagrim Ironfist was sent by the Slayer King to aid Ice Queen of Kislev. I assume around that same timeframe Ungrim Ironfist was back at Karak Kadrin holding off Grimgor Ironhide... who within a year since the Black Orcs emergence from the Dark Lands had a host ready to lay siege to Slayer Keep.

I think Grimgor's emergence from the Blasted Wastes happend quite a bit longer ago than one year before Storm of Chaos.
According to his background, Grimgor travelled between Kislev and Red-Eye Mountain depending on the season. I don't see why he would be anywhere near Karak Kadrin.



Also: Gnashrak's Lair is cited as a Goblin Stronghold in the O&G books. Could this be related to BB personality Gnashrak Blackhoof? I like to picture a forlorn DoomBull sitting in a throne in a lonely keep filled with his goblinoid slaves/minions. Maybe the minotaur is so unhinged he has lost touch with the Ruinous Powers to a degree and just festers in his mountain lair?
Gnashrak was an Orc Boss who worked with the Ogre chief Golgfag.
Gnashrak and Golgfag didn't get along well though, and after a bloody argument Golgfag and his warband defected the the Orc's enemy: the Dwarfs of Karak Kadrin.
In the end Golgfag was the one who captured Gnashrak and brought him to the Dwarf king in chains.

[Spifflespore]

from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimgor_Ironhide

The first to feel Grimgor’s wrath were the Dwarfs of Karak Kadrin. In the many battles that followed, the Dwarfs witnessed defeat after defeat at the hands of Grimgor and his followers. Grimgor never once tried to take the Dwarf hold itself, always content to kill the armies that were sent out to defeat him. The Dwarfs lost so many warriors that in the end they had no choice but to sit behind the walls and mighty doors of Karak Kadin and wait for the fast approaching winter to do what they could not do: force Grimgor to retreat.

I'm not overly fond of Grimgor, I was looking into it because of fluff for a WarBoss that rises out of the Rib Peaks.

Good stuff about ties with Golgfag. Didn't stumble on that info so thank you! So, we can assume Gnashrak's Lair is abandoned or taken over by another Orc WarBoss? Hmmm.

Edit: so after doing some looking around Golgfag selling Gnashrak Badtooth out to Ungrim is well recorded. I've also seen some timelines http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline/Greenskin that say Gnashrak leads a huge Waaagh in IC 2500 but its the MMORPG wiki so I trust it less.

[ivan55599]

Is there anything new information about chaos wastes in Northern wastes-iBad-thingy? (I want all info about it: texts, pictures)

[Tycoondashie]

oh great Long Beards, i request answers to these questions 3.

1.) are there any known lands in the east besides the Hobgoblins, Chaos Dwarves, Cathay, Nippon and Ind? and if so is there any info on them?

2.) Whats the deal with Dragon Ogres?.

3.) Has anything ever come from Fishmen or is that just a long running joke?.

[Kotrag]

1.) are there any known lands in the east besides the Hobgoblins, Chaos Dwarves, Cathay, Nippon and Ind? and if so is there any info on them?

Yes, they are called the Kurgan and the Hung. Here is stuff about them.

http://warhammerfb.wikia.com/wiki/Kurgan


2.) Whats the deal with Dragon Ogres?.

Primeval beasts that struck a bargain with Chaos when the world was young in order to prevent their extinction.


3.) Has anything ever come from Fishmen or is that just a long running joke?.

Who, the Fmir?

[Tycoondashie]

thanks for the answers on the first two. many thanks.


Who, the Fmir?

no i mean like actual fish like people?. ive heard of them in just not sure if its a joke or not.

[Kotrag]

thanks for the answers on the first two. many thanks.



no i mean like actual fish like people?. ive heard of them in just not sure if its a joke or not.

There were some fishmen back in first edition, but they fell off the face of the earth immediately after. They were just an inside joke by GW.

[Tycoondashie]

There were some fishmen back in first edition, but they fell off the face of the earth immediately after. They were just an inside joke by GW.

oh thanks for the answer, it really helps.

[TheRiverTrollKing]

Didn't they mention needle teeth warriors of the deep in the new rulebook? They have a ship that's part ship, part kraken. It takes down an entire dark elf fleet.

[CombatWombat]

[Bretonnia]

Just a quick question about Bretonnia, on all the maps of Bretonnia that I have seen, there is a peninsula on the northern shore of Couronne. Some of the maps show some surrounding islands close to shore, others do not, but either way, no map has any points of interest. Is there some established fluff for this area, or is this more or less a blank area like the maps imply?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Kotrag]

[Bretonnia]

Just a quick question about Bretonnia, on all the maps of Bretonnia that I have seen, there is a peninsula on the northern shore of Couronne. Some of the maps show some surrounding islands close to shore, others do not, but either way, no map has any points of interest. Is there some established fluff for this area, or is this more or less a blank area like the maps imply?

Thanks in advance for any help.

What islands? The closest I can see on several maps is the Dragon's Maw. There are some islands north of Lyonesse, the biggest of which is called the Isle of Landri, though.

[crimsonsun]

Are you referring to those tiny dotted islands called dragons maw directly north of erguy? Unless of course you mean the Isle of Albion which is directly north of there. Couronne is not a coastal city though as it has Norsica to the North over the sea... can you show me the map as it could be your looking at the bottom of norsica which looks like islands on an old world map...

[crimsonsun]

I have stupid question: What is relation between dwarfs and chaos dwarfs? Do they hate each other?

The existence of Chaos Dwarfs is the greatest shame that the Dwarfs possess to them the knowledge of there existence becoming known would be the ultimate disgrace, as such the Dwarfs want to exterminate the entire race and attempt such when there paths cross. The hatred they bear Orcs and Goblins, Elves or Skaven does not begin to go as deep as their need to make the Chaos dwarfs extinct and a failure to achieve this is the greatest of shame. For Chaos Dwarfs, they must corrupt or destroy there western kin, simply because Hashut refuses to his worshippers and the dwarfs adherence to the Ancestor Gods is Blasphemy of the highest order.

[CombatWombat]

Are you referring to those tiny dotted islands called dragons maw directly north of erguy? Unless of course you mean the Isle of Albion which is directly north of there. Couronne is not a coastal city though as it has Norsica to the North over the sea... can you show me the map as it could be your looking at the bottom of norsica which looks like islands on an old world map...


I'm referring to the peninsula on the north shore of Couronne, circled in yellow on the map bellow. Thanks again for the help.

196124

[Kotrag]

I'm referring to the peninsula on the north shore of Couronne, circled in yellow on the map bellow. Thanks again for the help.

196124

That's just a part of Couronne, nothing special about it.

[Wulfrun]

Not sure whether this would fall under normal Warhammer Lore, but I have just read the Archaon novel and was confused a little. Wasn't the southern gate at the pole destroyed by the high elves? In the book it suggests it is still there. I understand that daemons and beastmen would still roam the southern wastes as just having the gate open for a little while would warp the landscape forever.
Just interested because I may create a southern wastes beastmen army instead if the southern polar gate remains.
Thanks in advance :)

[m1acca1551]

Not sure whether this would fall under normal Warhammer Lore, but I have just read the Archaon novel and was confused a little. Wasn't the southern gate at the pole destroyed by the high elves? In the book it suggests it is still there. I understand that daemons and beastmen would still roam the southern wastes as just having the gate open for a little while would warp the landscape forever.
Just interested because I may create a southern wastes beastmen army instead if the southern polar gate remains.
Thanks in advance :)

I was always under the impression that the southern gates were open just rarely used, or were damaged and not as functional as the northern ones.

[Kotrag]

Not sure whether this would fall under normal Warhammer Lore, but I have just read the Archaon novel and was confused a little. Wasn't the southern gate at the pole destroyed by the high elves? In the book it suggests it is still there. I understand that daemons and beastmen would still roam the southern wastes as just having the gate open for a little while would warp the landscape forever.
Just interested because I may create a southern wastes beastmen army instead if the southern polar gate remains.
Thanks in advance :)

Both gates were never closed. They collapsed, which is like if a floodgate opened, thus bathing the northern and southern poles in energy. Also, the elves never destroyed either of the gates, they merely contained the run-off.

[Wulfrun]

Ok thanks. Could've swore I read that when the mages created the shielding around Ulthuan that it got rid of a pole, but can't find the info anywhere. I know in the new book it said the gates where sealed. If this is the case as well how come men don't gallavant across the southern wastes like they do the northern? There must be some civilizations connected to it?

[Kotrag]

Ok thanks. Could've swore I read that when the mages created the shielding around Ulthuan that it got rid of a pole, but can't find the info anywhere. I know in the new book it said the gates where sealed. If this is the case as well how come men don't gallavant across the southern wastes like they do the northern? There must be some civilizations connected to it?

Because there's nothing in the southern wastes that supports a civilization. There are no resources, no areas fit for habitation, and the weather is far too hostile. The same reasons why there's no native permanent population of Antarctica. The Northern Wastes have sub-arctic regions on their south which allow for civilizations to develop ie: Norsca and the Eastern Steppes, Norsca's year-long daemonic winters aside. These places have farmable land, resources and areas fit for villages and other types of settlement, hence why civilizations flourish in the Northern Wastes. The Southern Wastes have no such things, even the Beastmen who dwell there are noted to be more like daemons than flesh-and-blood creatures, and hence do not have the same needs as humans in order to survive.

Morkar the Uniter is buried there, though. Which means that the Norsii went there at least once.

[English 2000]

[Daemons]

I have a question about the history of Daemon Animosity. I apologize if this has already been covered, I don't have time to read though 100+ pages right now and the search function isn't working on my phone right now.

What is the history on this? Who hated who in previous editions. I seem to recall there were rules for this from 3rd to 5th edition.

I think it's silly that the current fluff has Tzeentch and Nurgle hating each other. It should be Tzeentch and Khorne. I'm sure it used to be like that but memory fades with age..

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[Arnizipal]

[Daemons]

I have a question about the history of Daemon Animosity. I apologize if this has already been covered, I don't have time to read though 100+ pages right now and the search function isn't working on my phone right now.

What is the history on this? Who hated who in previous editions. I seem to recall there were rules for this from 3rd to 5th edition.

I think it's silly that the current fluff has Tzeentch and Nurgle hating each other. It should be Tzeentch and Khorne. I'm sure it used to be like that but memory fades with age..

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Nurgle and Tzeentch have always been opposites as deities of despair and hope.
Up to 5th edition there were rules that could cause Greater Daemons of opposing gods to fight each other instead of your opponent if you fielded them in the same army.

[Kotrag]

I think it's silly that the current fluff has Tzeentch and Nurgle hating each other. It should be Tzeentch and Khorne. I'm sure it used to be like that but memory fades with age..

It isn't silly at all. The enmity between the gods has always had to do with what central concept it is that they embody. Tzeentch represents growth, Nurgle represents decay. Hence, they are diametric opposites.

[English 2000]

Hmm, growth vs decay. I see how that could make sense. So why do Khorne and Slaanesh hate each other?

Obviously I'm wrong and have never had my Daemon hatred straight but I would expect that it be Khorne hates Tzeentch:
Martial honour vs trickery, deceit and magic
And Slaanesh hating Nurgle
hedonism, excess and physical desire vs decay and putrefaction

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[Kotrag]

So why do Khorne and Slaanesh hate each other?

Slaanesh's doctrines of hedonism and luxury run counter to Khorne's warrior code. In a nutshell, ever noticed why Conan hates civilized people? It's like that. Khorne embodies honour and self-sacrifice, Slaanesh embodies self-indulgent pleasure seeking. The two are diametric opposites.

[English 2000]

Ok, I can see that. A spartan warrior lifestyle vs a life of debauchery.

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[crimsonsun]

Daemonic Enmity is in fact pretty chaotic, as was said above Tzeentch is all about change and growth, Nurgle is about stagnation (though for illness to grow, it must bring forward some change - as such true stagnation only comes from the curse of Undeath which is the antithesis of Chaos ). Tzeentch is a fickle God whimsical and fickle, Nurgle is a nurturing father, patient devoted and protective. Slaanesh is all about seeking enjoyment and pleasure in all things, being the definition of vanity but at the same time Slaanesh is perfection, Khorne is currently the most powerful of the Chaos Gods being anger, rage and bloodlust, for Khorne the trivialities that Slaanesh idolises are nothing for to him there is only War. Also it is interesting to remember that although Khorne is the most powerful of the Gods it has not always been so, in fact Tzeentch was so Powerful that they all bowed done to its Divine right as the all knowing all seeing eye Ruled its sibling's.

In real world history think of Khorne as Thor and Slaanesh Lokki, who was all honeyed words in a perfect visage.

[Kotrag]

Ok, I can see that. A spartan warrior lifestyle vs a life of debauchery.

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It's more like when Oden speared and burned Freyja alive three times when she came to Asgard because he thought her womanly magic (seidr) was eroding the Æsir's strength and honour, thus setting up the whole Æsir-Vanir war.


Also it is interesting to remember that although Khorne is the most powerful of the Gods it has not always been so, in fact Tzeentch was so Powerful that they all bowed done to its Divine right as the all knowing all seeing eye Ruled its sibling's.

Up until Khorne beat the **** out of him and throw him off a mountaintop after the war with the Old Ones.


In real world history think of Khorne as Thor and Slaanesh Lokki, who was all honeyed words in a perfect visage.

Valkyries, berserker rage, associated with wolves, purportedly presides over a warrior heaven and his name is a by-word for frenzy. You sure he isn't Oden?

[crimsonsun]

Remember it however you like, if you want him to be Odin and that's how you remember it more power to you. :D

[Kotrag]

Remember it however you like, if you want him to be Odin and that's how you remember it more power to you. :D

Oden's portfolio with Tor's psychotically violent personality then. Even though Oden was about as violent himself, having basically cast the first spear in war. ;)

[Lastavenger]

I always though that chaos armor was produced by chaos dwarfs (7th ediction stuff). But I was proven to be wrong. So how does warrior get ChA? If he follows single god it is simple, but what if he worship chaos in it undivided form? What then? Do gods form committee to find if he is worthy of ChA? What if warrior is on bad terms with one god, but rest find him worthy?

[MOMUS]

They roll a D6 for it

[Kotrag]

I always though that chaos armor was produced by chaos dwarfs (7th ediction stuff). But I was proven to be wrong. So how does warrior get ChA? If he follows single god it is simple, but what if he worship chaos in it undivided form? What then? Do gods form committee to find if he is worthy of ChA? What if warrior is on bad terms with one god, but rest find him worthy?

Chaos Dwarfs do make Chaos Armour. 7th edition says so too.

Anyway, there are many ways to get Chaos armour:

* Chaos Dwarfs
* Kill someone who owns a set and take it off him
* Tribal blacksmith, particularly Norscans
* Gods gave it to you
* Find it in a ruin, ala Archaon

[crimsonsun]

Chaos Dwarfs do make Chaos Armour. 7th edition says so too.

Anyway, there are many ways to get Chaos armour:

* Kill someone who owns a set and take it off him
* Find it in a ruin, ala Archaon

These two I doubt, while I have no idea with out looking it up if Chaos Armour is forged when worn it Bonds to the skin and becomes part of the Warrior, once donned it does NOT come off, this is why when the warrior mutates his armour mutates with it.

crimsonsun

[Kotrag]

These two I doubt, while I have no idea with out looking it up if Chaos Armour is forged when worn it Bonds to the skin and becomes part of the Warrior, once donned it does NOT come off, this is why when the warrior mutates his armour mutates with it.

crimsonsun

Actually no, this has been challenged in almost every depiction of Chaos armour in the RPG and the BL novels. Chaos armour does not meld with the skin in all cases, and can be removed and donned again like any other set of armour. Once again, given that Archaon literally had to take Morkar's armour from him pretty much proves beyond all doubt that Chaos armor can be removed.

And besides, just because it's melded with the skin doesn't mean it can't be flayed off.

Also, helmetless Chaos Warrior minis and Wulfrik.

EDIT: From the wiki:

''At times, it pleases the Dark Gods to grant these warriors a hellish unity with their armour, transforming it into a second-skin that cannot be removed. Such warriors are regarded as blessed by their compatriots, for they have now fully committed themselves to the warrior's path -- becoming true lords of battle. Those who endure this fate silently rage against what they have become, and throw themselves into battle with the rage of a berserker, desperately seeking death and a release from their prison.''

[Warpsoul]

Black Library-related question from a newbie to these forums.

I am writing a spec draft for a Black Library novel of my own, set in Altdorf (present day).

Two of my characters are from overseas- an enforcer from Nippon, and a college professor from Ind. Is that likely? Would Altdorf institutions at the time be welcoming to hire people from far away, or is there deep-seated racism? My female character Katsuri, a smart-mouthed samurai-sword wielding cut-throat from Nippon seems fair game. I have read many BL titles set in the Old World and the character set becomes tiresome. I'd love to see some diversity in the stories set there, but need the tale to read as authentic as possible.
Would Altdorf have trade with Ind, and have a population of immigrants from Ind?

Many thanks, much appreciated.

[Kotrag]

Black Library-related question from a newbie to these forums.

I am writing a spec draft for a Black Library novel of my own, set in Altdorf (present day).

Two of my characters are from overseas- an enforcer from Nippon, and a college professor from Ind. Is that likely? Would Altdorf institutions at the time be welcoming to hire people from far away, or is there deep-seated racism? My female character Katsuri, a smart-mouthed samurai-sword wielding cut-throat from Nippon seems fair game. I have read many BL titles set in the Old World and the character set becomes tiresome. I'd love to see some diversity in the stories set there, but need the tale to read as authentic as possible.
Would Altdorf have trade with Ind, and have a population of immigrants from Ind?

Many thanks, much appreciated.

There are no colleges in Ind, as far as I know. There certainly weren't in India during the time period most of Warhammer is set. After the Mughals came, there were madrassahs which were roughly as good if not better than modern colleges, though.

I've never heard of Ind immigrants in the Empire or of Ind trading with the Empire, though Marienburg deals in everything. As for racism, well, the Empire seems busier hating anything that lives north of them than south. But on the other hand, they've had no trouble looking down on the Bretonnians and Kislevites. Hell, they've had no trouble looking down on people from different provinces (poor Nordlanders), so hating a bunch of funny-sounding brown people in ridiculous clothes looks right down their alley. However, Altdorf hiring people from far away would imply the Empire having diplomatic contacts with Ind. Which it doesn't.

As for Nippon? Well, same thing as above honestly.

[Lord Zarkov]

In the Genevieve books there is Dien Ch'ing who's from Cathay and in the bits describing his PoV he complains about people's reactions to his looks.


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[Warpsoul]

^^ I thought as much, Thanks for the insight, Kotrag & Lord Zarkov.

Genevieve indeed had a master in Cathay when she travelled there. I'll make some changes.

[Geordie Vampire]

[Undead/wasting sickness]

Right so im re-reading the Von Carstein trilogy and a main theme running through the start of 'Inheritance' is that of the Wasting Sickness and the Cult of the Risen Dead when Skellan and Fischer are looking for Aigner and well I just want to know more what exactly is the cause of the Sickness itself?

Because when im reading it, it only seems to be affecting teenage/young women in the novel, now I'd of said this was possibly down to Vlad's vampires choosing them as their victims as they travel through Sylvania and the peasants, priests etc just not picking up on it.
but the fact that Isabella von Carstein also falls ill of it forcing Vlad to turn her into a vampire to save her makes me think its maybes another force at work? But (again to me) it seems far too choosy a disease of its victims for Nurgle to bother himself with, or is it just that Vlad was feeding on Isabella anyway and its just the victims becoming too weak that they die as a result.

So yeah basically my question is What is the cause of the wasting sickness? Is it just through the vampires feeding or is it something else at play?

[Ulfrik]

[City of Mordheim]

Where in the Warhammer World is/was the city of Mordheim?

[Dargon]

Mordheim is/was located above Sylvania on the border of Stirland and Ostermark (the river runs/ran through the centre of the city). Most Empire maps will have it noted.

[Razios]

Ok, who much change the time of legend the fluff of nagash?

also, is just me of each set of gods(elf,dwarfs,humans,etc) are diferent? I seen that each one shared a diferent nature and origins, what did you think about it?

[Athelassan]

Ok, who much change the time of legend the fluff of nagash?

also, is just me of each set of gods(elf,dwarfs,humans,etc) are diferent? I seen that each one shared a diferent nature and origins, what did you think about it?

There is substantial overlap between the elven and human pantheons, to the extent it's a fairly widely accepted hypothesis that they're actually the same, just seen in different ways and given different levels of importance. The Dwarf pantheon is a bit more off on its own but it's also not too hard to see some overlap there (Grimnir with Khaine and/or Ulric; Valaya with Vaul, Shallya etc.) With a bit of effort and imagination you can even get the Nehekharan pantheon in on the act (as I attempted here (http://thebolthole.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1642)). Tome of Salvation dropped a few rather heavy hints in this direction and also got Sotek in on the act, while Savage City all but outright stated that Isha was the Lady of the Lake. Some of the gods might have different origin stories, but those stories aren't necessarily true. The elves seem to know the truth, but they're not telling.

End Times stuff may have variously contradicted some of this, though (and I believe certainly has in some cases). GW aren't always great at keeping background consistent, especially where it concerns non-war stuff and is contained in sourcebooks that, with the best will in the world, many of the current background writers won't have read or even necessarily heard of. Which is a shame, because that stuff's often pretty good (for my money, Tome of Salvation is just about the best Warhammer fantasy book for about twenty years) but also something we have to live with.

[Razios]

the thing is that GW have already go away with the "every god is the same" theory,because they are diferen y many regards(sigmar is not a warrior gods, it is also the god of the empire as a whole, imagine like germany was alike hetalia style)

[Athelassan]

the thing is that GW have already go away with the "every god is the same" theory,because they are diferen y many regards(sigmar is not a warrior gods, it is also the god of the empire as a whole, imagine like germany was alike hetalia style)

I'm not sure what you mean?

Sigmar is a warrior god but also the patron god of the Empire, yes. He is one of the gods who doesn't map easily to the elven pantheon, being an ascended human, but it is possible that he has some metaphysical overlap with Sotek (they both share the comet). Some gods do have very broad "domains", especially the Classical Gods (Myrmidia and Verena in particular). But those might also be local interpretations of a god the elves see as something else. In much the same way, Kurnous seems to be viewed slightly differently by Wood Elves and High Elves, and Kurnous and Isha pretty much canonically equate to Taal and Rhya, who are seen as different again by humans. Or take a look at Khaine: simultaneously god of battle, god of murder and patron of the Dark Elves. At heart these gods are the same being across pantheons, but different peoples see what's important to them and ignore the rest.

[Razios]

I'm not sure what you mean?

Sigmar is a warrior god but also the patron god of the Empire, yes. He is one of the gods who doesn't map easily to the elven pantheon, being an ascended human, but it is possible that he has some metaphysical overlap with Sotek (they both share the comet). Some gods do have very broad "domains", especially the Classical Gods (Myrmidia and Verena in particular). But those might also be local interpretations of a god the elves see as something else. In much the same way, Kurnous seems to be viewed slightly differently by Wood Elves and High Elves, and Kurnous and Isha pretty much canonically equate to Taal and Rhya, who are seen as different again by humans. Or take a look at Khaine: simultaneously god of battle, god of murder and patron of the Dark Elves. At heart these gods are the same being across pantheons, but different peoples see what's important to them and ignore the rest.

But human khaine is a borderline satan while high elf is pretty much Ares

Also I said that Sigmar is not just a warrior god, is the god of the empire as a whole, just like the lade of the lake, is like a genius loci of the entire empire as a whole

[Athelassan]

But human khaine is a borderline satan while high elf is pretty much Ares
Exactly. Or, not exactly, since Khaine is an underworld god and thus on the Dark Side of the Force as far as the elves are concerned, but then Ares was a bit like that too at least by the classical period. But in any case, people see what they want to see. It's possible that the more positive or neutral bits of Khaine got viewed by humans as Ulric, leaving only the really nasty bits to retain the original name.

Also I said that Sigmar is not just a warrior god, is the god of the empire as a whole, just like the lade of the lake, is like a genius loci of the entire empire as a whole
I'm not sure what your question/point is, though?

[Razios]

Exactly. Or, not exactly, since Khaine is an underworld god and thus on the Dark Side of the Force as far as the elves are concerned, but then Ares was a bit like that too at least by the classical period. But in any case, people see what they want to see. It's possible that the more positive or neutral bits of Khaine got viewed by humans as Ulric, leaving only the really nasty bits to retain the original name.

I'm not sure what your question/point is, though?

their atribute maybe see the same but not how, myrmidia and ulric are war gods but in diferent ways, it cant be just cultural bias

And the thing with sigmar is that is not only a war god like the rest, he is some kind of nation entity, imagine everything that make france,britian or the EEUU in one entity, THAT is sigmar for the empire

[Athelassan]

And the thing with sigmar is that is not only a war god like the rest, he is some kind of nation entity, imagine everything that make france,britian or the EEUU in one entity, THAT is sigmar for the empire

As I say, I know that, I'm just not sure what your point is in the context of this discussion.

[Razios]

As I say, I know that, I'm just not sure what your point is in the context of this discussion.

My point would be, how and why? warp entity usually follow based desiers(death,life,war,etc) but the concept of a national god is strange considering the empire is barely a nation

How something like that can happen?

[Pojko]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but if anyone will know, people here will. A long time ago, maybe even up to 10 years ago, White Dwarf magazine had a really nice article about Sylvania. It had a lot of background on the humans who lived there, introduced their colors as being black, red and purple, introduced the Drakenhof Banner, and so on. Not sure if it was an armylist as well. Would anyone happen to know which issue it was in? I want to say maybe sometime in the winter of 2005 or around there.

Thanks.

[Argive]

[HE]

Dear Longbeards I have a question.

My memory is hazy...but, according to the lore I am familiar with when I used to collect HE I remmeber reading something in their army book about anarion having 3 immediate children/sons? Malekith "usurped" them from what I understood.
And they have gone misisng...?Any lore on what became of them?

I made my own fluff about the dragon lord/prince character how hes the long lost child of aenarion who has been lost in the world as a child on grand odyssey whle the chaos gods and inferior races did their best to delay his return...

[Dargon]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but if anyone will know, people here will. A long time ago, maybe even up to 10 years ago, White Dwarf magazine had a really nice article about Sylvania. It had a lot of background on the humans who lived there, introduced their colors as being black, red and purple, introduced the Drakenhof Banner, and so on. Not sure if it was an armylist as well. Would anyone happen to know which issue it was in? I want to say maybe sometime in the winter of 2005 or around there.

Thanks.
From the description, I'm going to take a guess at the article being "Olde Weirde's Incunabulum" from White Dwarf 291 (March 2004) - an in-character 2 page article that talked about the Vampire Wars, The Battle of the old Forest Road and then another 2 pages of illustrations and musings on some of the human Sylvanian soldiers and their livery (along with the Drakenhof Banner, before and after the coming of Vlad).


My memory is hazy...but, according to the lore I am familiar with when I used to collect HE I remmeber reading something in their army book about anarion having 3 immediate children/sons? Malekith "usurped" them from what I understood.
And they have gone misisng...?Any lore on what became of them?

I made my own fluff about the dragon lord/prince character how hes the long lost child of aenarion who has been lost in the world as a child on grand odyssey whle the chaos gods and inferior races did their best to delay his return...
Aenarion did indeed have 3 children. His first children were Morelion and Yvraine to the Everqueen. During the first great War against Chaos, the Chaos forces invaded Avelorn, and the Everqueen was slain, while Morelion and Yvraine were missing and presumed to have shared the same fate (when in reality they were rescued and spirited away by a Treeman Ancient). Consumed by grief and with nothing left to lose, Aenarion drew the Sword of Khaine and under its corrupting influence took the fight to the forces of Chaos with renewed vigour. It is during this campaign that he rescues and takes up with Morathi, and Malekith is sired.

Morelion and Yvraine were restored to Ulthuan shortly after Aenarion's death. Yvraine became the next Everqueen, and according to the latest armybook Morelion retired to Avelorn to protect his sister and live in obscurity. From there, the line of Morelion remains a complete mystery for 5-6 thousand years until finally Tyrion & Teclis enter the picture, save that N'Kari, Greater Daemon of Slaanesh has been actively hunting them all down.

[Argive]

ahh allright. Thanks dawg! :)

Next question: There is this kitkat(chocolate bar) in the fridge on my floor at the office.
I am pretty sure its been there for a month at least...I think it has been abandoned. (Unless said kit-kat has been replaced on regular intervals but why leave it in the fridge in the first place?) So, Do I take it, and chow it down with a nice hot brew as I trawl the mighty volumes of knowlegde stored in the the warseer forums or leave it where it is...?

[Athelassan]

My memory is hazy...but, according to the lore I am familiar with when I used to collect HE I remmeber reading something in their army book about anarion having 3 immediate children/sons? Malekith "usurped" them from what I understood.
And they have gone misisng...?Any lore on what became of them?.
Dargon is correct on all counts. Malekith didn't usurp anything from his half-siblings: they were believed dead until the council when he put forward his claim to be Phoenix King, and when they were revealed to be alive Morelion abdicated any claim of his own over Nagarythe, leaving it to Malekith. Yvraine became Everqueen as was her birthright. In Nagarythe at least there was never any real doubt or contention that Malekith was Aenarion's rightful successor (the Anars challenged him much later, but considered themselves Malekith loyalists for a long time after his presumed death).

Morelion had quite a lot of descendants (as you'd expect given the thousands of years that have passed), many, perhaps almost all, of whom, were killed by N'Kari save for Tyrion, Teclis and their father (who may or may not still be alive). Current numbers are unknown, as are any names apart from those three. As all descendants of Morelion are considered to be under the Curse of Aenarion the known ones are monitored and must be examined by the Phoenix King when they come of age for signs of corruption. All the Everqueens have been descended from Yvraine.

[Argive]

Random One.

When did dogs of war stop being a thing ?
I realy loved the fluff behind some of the units and it also gave ability to have a dragon lord/giants in any random army lol

[Athelassan]

Random One.

When did dogs of war stop being a thing ?
I realy loved the fluff behind some of the units and it also gave ability to have a dragon lord/giants in any random army lol
There's no real reason they can't still be present in the background, and, of course, some of them still definitely are (like Golgfag). Of course Tilea and Estalia were destroyed in End Times in the space of a single sentence, but assuming we're working on the basis of non-End Times, many of the the Regiments are likely still out there.

Rules-wise I'm not sure they have ever officially been abolished. They got an army list for 6th edition, for both regular DoW (a notable omission from the 5th ed rules) and regiments of renown, but it was only published in White Dwarf. I think most people would probably consider them obsolete by the start of 7th edition, although the old army list could still theoretically be used even now. The last of the models were withdrawn from sale during the metal purge of early last year.

[Argive]

Could elves grow beards, facial hair ? :confused:
Im not asking if they can not if they should :P

[Razios]

Could elves grow beards, facial hair ? :confused:
Im not asking if they can not if they should :P

Well a chararter in Malus darkblade novels have a goat, but overall the answer is no

[Risegreymon]

Hi Longbeards. Newbie Warhammer guy here with a growing interest in the background and setting.

Quick question: What time-line equivalent has the Old World in our own history in Europe? Post- medieval? Post renaissance?


I'm asking mainly for the Empire background, the steampunk elements are throwing me off a bit so I'm just trying to get clarification, dates- wise. Thanks for the help!

[wyvirn]

It's sort of a trap to assume a 1:1 trade off of timelines for our world. It's better to go off archetypes than a linear timeline.

For example, way back when, Bretonia was modeled on pre-French Revolution style nobility. High class nobles throwing exquisite parties while filth and corruption was all around them. Since then, they have 'regressed' to a Renaissance era theme, while maintaining their French ties.

Basically, Wathammer world is divided into themes, which gives sculptors enough artistic license to run with it. So sometimes you get goofy things like pikemen fighting alongside a carriageless horse.

[Risegreymon]

^^ Points taken into account, thanks for the reply :)

Just from reading Brunner, G & F and Drachenfels, the entire continent seems to be GW just riffing on different time periods. What you see in Tilea and the Border Princes is completely different to Altdorf and Marienburg.

Interesting setting, GW. It will surely be missed.

[Athelassan]

^^ Points taken into account, thanks for the reply :)

Just from reading Brunner, G & F and Drachenfels, the entire continent seems to be GW just riffing on different time periods. What you see in Tilea and the Border Princes is completely different to Altdorf and Marienburg.

I think you won't go too far wrong if you assume a rough timeline of 1400-1550 across most of the human Old World, with the Empire and Tilea being relatively advanced and Bretonnia relatively primitive. Bretonnia is in fact possibly a little earlier than that but 1400 still gives you your knights, castles and archers and general air of chivalry. A couple of elements, notwithstanding the overtly fantastic, are a little later, like pistoliers and a couple of the Empire toys, but not by a million miles.

Outside the Old World, though, things get all over the place pretty quickly. The Dwarfs and Norse have strong early mediaeval elements, while the High Elves are largely pre-Hellenic near/middle-eastern in military appearance at least (and a bit like an idealised Bronze Age society in some ways); the Dark Elves look to me oddly like an ancient Chinese army in some respects, though their culture is very alien. The Lizardmen obviously have an native central American theme (not that that necessarily disqualifies them from a 1400-1550 timeline slot!) while it's difficult to tell with Araby but they look more Abbasid than Ottoman. The Hobgoblin Hegemony is pretty overtly mediaeval Mongol, while the Chaos Dwarfs have an Assyrian/Babylonian image with an early modern weapons range. The Orcs are a bit like migration-era barbarian tribes, but they don't fit terribly neatly into any time period, and nor do the Skaven. The Vampire Counts are a complete mess and the Tomb Kings are obviously ancient Egyptian, albeit they're more explicitly "out of time".

So it's definitely a mashup. And none of the above has stopped GW/BL from pilfering from wherever when they think they can do something cool. You've encountered the Kim Newman novels, and Beasts in Velvet is obviously a Jack the Ripper lift (albeit the setting remains broadly early modern). There's another series of short stories (Zavant) which is Sherlock Holmes in Warhammer, and so on.


Interesting setting, GW. It will surely be missed.

Yeah :(

[Razios]

So it's definitely a mashup. And none of the above has stopped GW/BL from pilfering from wherever when they think they can do something cool. You've encountered the Kim Newman novels, and Beasts in Velvet is obviously a Jack the Ripper lift (albeit the setting remains broadly early modern). There's another series of short stories (Zavant) which is Sherlock Holmes in Warhammer, and so on.



Yeah :(


Or brunner the hunter, which is pretty much clint eastwood in warhammer.

But anyway, this is lest a question and more a request, have everyone here give me a description of how the incarnate looks with their powers? I mean as far I know many of them have the power atach to him and change their apareince so if someone can give me how they look each one I will apriciated very much

[Risegreymon]

Hi; I know this has been asked before and I have used the search box, but there seems to be a lot of differing opinions, so here's my question:

What's the correct reading-order for Gotrek & Felix post Zombieslayer?

I have read all the omnibuses, from Troll to Zombieslayer. Does Road of Skulls come next, or am I missing the anthologies? Any help is much appreciated here. I always promised myself I'd come back to the series, setting destroyed or not.

[Athelassan]

Hi; I know this has been asked before and I have used the search box, but there seems to be a lot of differing opinions, so here's my question:

What's the correct reading-order for Gotrek & Felix post Zombieslayer?

I have read all the omnibuses, from Troll to Zombieslayer. Does Road of Skulls come next, or am I missing the anthologies? Any help is much appreciated here. I always promised myself I'd come back to the series, setting destroyed or not.

After Zombieslayer the continuity appears to become a lot more fluid, with the series breaking down into individual novel lines rather than one overarching continuity. In fact it's not clear when some of them are set even in relation to the William King novels: City of the Damned sometimes giving the vibe of taking place fairly early in their adventures, possibly even before Skavenslayer. Into the Valley of Death is set before Felix even meets Gotrek.

I think the key thing is that Kinslayer and Slayer want to be read in order and as the last two books. Otherwise I don't think the order matters too much, although it might lead to some oddities. I'm not sure if the dangling plot from the end of Road of Skulls is picked up anywhere else.

[Cèsar de Quart]

What's the official fluff on the Free City of Kemperbad?

I started making a Kemperbad army a long while back, only because my finger fell onto it in the map and also because it seemed big enough to have an army but small enough to have no official fluff, so I could make my own.

So far, I've seen people making their own fluff up on the city, as well as some notes made by the WHRPG team (like it being a Free City, a trade hub and a merchant republic ran by a Council of Thirteen). But not much else.

Now that I'm expanding the army, I need inspiration for new units' themes. Is there something else?

Thanks!

[Athelassan]

What's the official fluff on the Free City of Kemperbad?

I started making a Kemperbad army a long while back, only because my finger fell onto it in the map and also because it seemed big enough to have an army but small enough to have no official fluff, so I could make my own.

So far, I've seen people making their own fluff up on the city, as well as some notes made by the WHRPG team (like it being a Free City, a trade hub and a merchant republic ran by a Council of Thirteen). But not much else.

Now that I'm expanding the army, I need inspiration for new units' themes. Is there something else?

Thanks!

As far as I know, the only information on the city of any detail is in Sigmar's Heirs, pp.82-84, although there might be something somewhere else that I've missed. If you've seen that (which your post suggests you have) then I don't have any more for you. If not then I can fill you in on that although it's not very fulsome.

It did make a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance in the computer game Dark Omen, as the Grudgebringer mercenary company made a brief stopover there, where they picked up some Greatsword allies, but that's not much to go on.

[Cèsar de Quart]

As far as I know, the only information on the city of any detail is in Sigmar's Heirs, pp.82-84, although there might be something somewhere else that I've missed. If you've seen that (which your post suggests you have) then I don't have any more for you. If not then I can fill you in on that although it's not very fulsome.

It did make a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance in the computer game Dark Omen, as the Grudgebringer mercenary company made a brief stopover there, where they picked up some Greatsword allies, but that's not much to go on.

Thanks!

If there's really nothing, then I'll base my new units on other ideas, like Renaissance Nuremberg, Hamburg and Köln. Creative freedom is nice.

[Griefbringer]

Kemberbad actually makes an appearance in the old WFRP adventure Death on the Reik, pages 35-37.

[Griefbringer]

So far, I've seen people making their own fluff up on the city, as well as some notes made by the WHRPG team (like it being a Free City, a trade hub and a merchant republic ran by a Council of Thirteen). But not much else.


I took a quick look at the Death on the Reik, and there was not very much to add. Of military interest might be the mention that the town has a regular garrison of 20 men, and can gather a militia force of 500 men from the town itself, plus another 100 men from the surrounding villages that fall under the town administration. The surrounding areas are also famous for their wine and brandy production.

Since it is a free city, they do not fall under the administration of Talabecland. Thus the local military forces are likely to feature their own unique uniforms. I would presume that the local military consists primarily of various types of infantry, and might be most interested to find defensively to protect their town and the surrounding areas, including the rivers.

[Presentdent]

Had the End Times not ended with Chaos succeeding and the world blowing apart, who would have succeeded the Dwarfs as their next king? I feel like all of their named characters got mercked. Thorgrim assassinated. Torek an-hero'd. Ungrim got an off-screen "consumed by Aqshy" death, so I suppose he could still re-emerge somehow.

[Kotrag]

Had the End Times not ended with Chaos succeeding and the world blowing apart, who would have succeeded the Dwarfs as their next king? I feel like all of their named characters got mercked. Thorgrim assassinated. Torek an-hero'd. Ungrim got an off-screen "consumed by Aqshy" death, so I suppose he could still re-emerge somehow.

Gotri Hammerson, the returned spirit of Grombrindal, Josef Bugman? Some unnamed Dwarf Lord? Take yer pick.

[Arnizipal]

Next in line if the heir apparent didn't survive would be the son of the heir, or otherwise the oldest brother of the late king.
Not necessarily a named character but the king's clan is larger than just a few named I heroes I suspect.

[Kotrag]

I just realised we don't even know the name of Thorgrim's immediate predecessor.

[Presentdent]

Gotri Hammerson, the returned spirit of Grombrindal, Josef Bugman? Some unnamed Dwarf Lord? Take yer pick.

End Times is all kinda fuzzy for me (skimmed a friend's version, as I was not a fan). Could you explain this Gotri Hammerson character? I understand he's the return of the White Dwarf -- but he died holding off Isabella, no?

[Kotrag]

End Times is all kinda fuzzy for me (skimmed a friend's version, as I was not a fan). Could you explain this Gotri Hammerson character? I understand he's the return of the White Dwarf -- but he died holding off Isabella, no?

Oh no, no, no, you misunderstand, Gotri and Grombrindal are two separate individuals. Gotri Hammerson is some Dwarf Runesmith from Zhufbarak who was thrust into a leadership position of the Dwarfs during the End Times. That's basically all I know.

Grombrindal briefly appeared during the final battle at Middenheim, held aloft by Josef Bugman and what I suppose was Gotrek Gurnisson. Even though the latter had apparently inherited Grimnir's Doom at the end of Slayer.

[Presentdent]

My bad. I reckon for AU 9th Edition I could save Gotri somehow. Gets stuck inside a cannon barrel and forgotten maybe. Lol.

no, a more noble resurrection is deserved, but I'll need to have a think on it.

[Zenithfleet]

[Dark Elves]

Who (if anyone) lived on the northern continent of the New World, including but not limited to Naggaroth, before the Dark Elves showed up aboard their inflatable castles?

Why is the northern continent so barren and inhospitable anyway?

Who built Vorshgar, the city where Malekith found the Circlet of Iron?

Was anything done background-wise with the great oceanic underworld below the northern continent after the 4th ed DE army book?

When and where have gorgons / medusae featured in the official background? I know there's a Gorgon in the bestiary for 5th ed, and the Bloodwrack Medusa showed up for 8th (?), but have there been any other appearances or details about their behaviour?

Thanks in advance! (Fluff from any era of WFB welcome, but please let me know which edition it's from. Not too keen on stuff from Black Library novels, though.)

[Griefbringer]

When and where have gorgons / medusae featured in the official background? I know there's a Gorgon in the bestiary for 5th ed, and the Bloodwrack Medusa showed up for 8th (?), but have there been any other appearances or details about their behaviour?


Gorgons feature in 3rd edition rulebook, on page 253, as part of the section of creatures of chaos. The background section for them is quite brief, though they hae a good number of special rules.

They also appear in the 4th edition Battle Bestiary, but that description seems to be identical to the 5th edition one.

[Arnizipal]

[Dark Elves]

Who (if anyone) lived on the northern continent of the New World, including but not limited to Naggaroth, before the Dark Elves showed up aboard their inflatable castles?

Human tribes lived there IIRC, but they were quickly enslaved or eradicated by the Naggarothi.



Why is the northern continent so barren and inhospitable anyway?
No explanation was ever given for this, apart from Naggaroth being like a mirror to the northern part of North America (geographically speaking).
Evil races are better suited to hostile climes anyway.



Who built Vorshgar, the city where Malekith found the Circlet of Iron?
Deliberately shrouded in mystery. Could have been Old Ones or some Chaos influenced humanoid race.



Was anything done background-wise with the great oceanic underworld below the northern continent after the 4th ed DE army book?
Fishmen live there ;)



When and where have gorgons / medusae featured in the official background? I know there's a Gorgon in the bestiary for 5th ed, and the Bloodwrack Medusa showed up for 8th (?), but have there been any other appearances or details about their behaviour?
There's a Gorgon's Ola on the coast of Tilea. Despite the horrible pun that does seem to imply that Gorgons live that far to the south and not exclusively near the Northern Wastes.

[Griefbringer]

There's a Gorgon's Ola on the coast of Tilea. Despite the horrible pun that does seem to imply that Gorgons live that far to the south and not exclusively near the Northern Wastes.

I must have missed that punning island on my maps of Tilea.

As for the Gorgons, according to the 3rd edition WFRP rulebook description it is speculated that many Gorgons live hidden amongst human societies. The less mutated amongst them may appear like ordinary human females, with the exception of the writhing snakes replacing their hair. Some of them are also capable of using illusionary magic to hide their true appearance.

[Zenithfleet]

Cheers Arnizipal and Griefbringer for the helpful replies :)

The reason I ask about the history of Naggaroth (or more accurately the northern New World continent) is that I've been studying the excellent map in the 4th ed Dark Elf book and noticing that it's the most metal place I've ever seen. Would make a great poster. :evilgrin:

I've been wondering if perhaps it was the site of massive continent-shaking battles involving the Old Ones / Lizardmen vs Chaos after the polar gates collapsed. Seems the most direct route Chaos would take if they were gunning for Lustria.

There appear to be Gorgon islands on the west coast of the New World, incidentally. And a petrified forest on the east coast... hmm...

And my favourite Tilean pun is the island of Nonucci... (it works better in context...)


One more question for luck!

[Orcs and Goblins]

Before the throwaway reference to 40K-like parasitic spores around 7th or 8th ed, was there any information about where Orcs and Gobbos came from? Not in terms of reproduction, but in terms of species origins. Did they predate humans / Elves / Dwarfs or did they spring up later?

Also, do they live in Lustria? The place seems oddly free of them. (As usual I suspect there to be differences between editions on this score.)

[RobC]

[Orcs and Goblins]

Before the throwaway reference to 40K-like parasitic spores around 7th or 8th ed, was there any information about where Orcs and Gobbos came from? Not in terms of reproduction, but in terms of species origins. Did they predate humans / Elves / Dwarfs or did they spring up later?

Also, do they live in Lustria? The place seems oddly free of them. (As usual I suspect there to be differences between editions on this score.)

There was a passing suggestion that they originated elsewhere (1st edition WFRP, I think). They weren't part of the Old Ones' plans, nor were they a result of Chaos.

Greenskins weren't 'native' to the New World and Lustria, but became established in the New World as a result of escaped slaves.

[Arnizipal]

I must have missed that punning island on my maps of Tilea.
It's on page 66 of the 2002 annual if you're interested (or just go here (https://www.google.be/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiMscCs_N7JAhVEQBQKHc7wC-0QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwarhammerfantasy.wikia.com%2Fwiki %2FFile%3AMap_of_Tilea.jpg&psig=AFQjCNFU1qHACTm6byJI46ivEPnv9lCQAQ&ust=1450306865332671))
I misremembered. Gorgon's Ola is an island located across the Tilean sea from Tilea, so it's on the coast of Estalia.


There was a passing suggestion that they originated elsewhere (1st edition WFRP, I think). They weren't part of the Old Ones' plans, nor were they a result of Chaos.

Greenskins weren't 'native' to the New World and Lustria, but became established in the New World as a result of escaped slaves.
I thought they were supposed to be native to the planet (which is why the Old Ones didn't include them in their plan), but I could be wrong there.

[Zenithfleet]

There was a passing suggestion that they originated elsewhere (1st edition WFRP, I think). They weren't part of the Old Ones' plans, nor were they a result of Chaos.

Greenskins weren't 'native' to the New World and Lustria, but became established in the New World as a result of escaped slaves.

I guess that means the Orcs and Gobbos must have turned up after the continents were separated (i.e. Lustria from the Southlands).

Pity, as I wondered if they might have been one of the dominant intelligent life forms on the pre-Old One planet, when it was further away from the sun and therefore colder. They seem to do well in cool, harsh regions that humans have trouble with (mountains and so forth) and to dislike hot/humid climes.

But I should probably keep my speculation out of this thread...

[RobC]

Here's the relevant text:

WFRP 1st edition, p266:
Already they [Dwarfs] had met and overcome countless creatures of Chaos, and their eternal struggle against the Goblins and Orcs had begun (though many people believe that Goblins and related creatures are but twisted descendants of Dwarfs and Elves mutated by the initial surge of Chaos matter into the world while others believe that such evil creatures gained entrance from other worlds via the collapsing gateways).
Not as clear-cut as I remembered it, and an avenue we'll never see explored, not least because a certain MMO behemoth used a similar device for its orcs.

[blackcherry]

Wasn't it explicitly mentioned in the 6th Edition Lizardmen army book that the Orks and Goblins came via spores on the Old Ones ships? It suggests that they may be outside of the Old Ones plans and in fact are some sort of galactic vermin.

[Griefbringer]

It's on page 66 of the 2002 annual

Thanks for the tip - it took some time finding it, since it is quite on the edge of the map. Actually it can also be found on similar map on page 86 of the 5th edition Dogs of War book - a publication well known for a less than serious tone.

[Arnizipal]

Unfortunately I don't own that book.
I heard a lot of good things about it though.

[Hellebore]

It amuses me no end to realise that there will eventually people playing Age of Sigmar who have never played previous WFB editions. They will ask longbeards who survived the planetary apocolypse to tell of them of the time before the great crappening.

[Griefbringer]

Unfortunately I don't own that book.
I heard a lot of good things about it though.

It is a fine book fluff-wise, though quite tongue-in-cheek in lots of places. Rules-wise maybe not quite as interesting, since there are few generic units and mostly Regiments of Reknown.

I picked mine from local gaming store discount shelf somewhere in the 6th edition days. Considering that the book was released around 1998, it had relatively limited shelf life before 6th edition hit.

Around the same time period the same gaming store had ended up with massive surplus of WH40K 2nd edition Sisters of Battle books that they just could not get rid off - apparently the books did not really attract the local 3rd edition 40K crowd. I ended up picking half a dozen for ridiculously cheap price, and then trading them for fluff nuts around the world during the next couple of years.

[Zenithfleet]

Back again...

[Lizardmen] [Campaigns]

Was anything retained fluffwise from the 'Dark Conspiracy' campaign from early 5th ed, or was it all retconned out of existence? (The one involving Lizardmen and the Siege of Antoch. Not to be confused with that whole 'Dark Shadows' Albion thing.)

As far as I can tell, the Bretonnian expeditions that were originally said to have brought back the Staff of Jade, etc., were turned into failed/lost expeditions in 6th ed. But I'm not sure.

Incidentally, I was amused, while reading those old WD articles, to find that a 'great Chaos incursion' plotline for the campaign was vetoed. Chaos couldn't be allowed to win or else entire factions like the Empire would be destroyed. Apparently GW forgot about this point by the time they did Storm of Chaos in 6th... :shifty:

[Alathir]

What do we know about where the Damsels of Bretonnia are taken by the Wood Elves? We know that Bretonnian girls learn magic from the Asrai, but where are the children taken specifically? Do individual 'kinbands' take them on? Or do they all go to a single place? If so, is it that tower where The Lady is meant to reside?

Just looking for some answers on that topic, if they exist at all.

[ivan55599]

I wonder, what are relationship each other's chaos god/aligment? We know that
Khorne doesn't like Slaanesh (nor Tzeentch magic) and vice versa
Nurgle doesn't like Tzeentch and vice versa

What I mean is what for example Khorne or Slaanesh thinks about Nurgle (or so on)?

[Pojko]

I wonder, what are relationship each other's chaos god/aligment? We know that
Khorne doesn't like Slaanesh (nor Tzeentch magic) and vice versa
Nurgle doesn't like Tzeentch and vice versa

What I mean is what for example Khorne or Slaanesh thinks about Nurgle (or so on)?

I personally have never read anything detailing the relationships between the Chaos gods who we know don't utterly despise each other. It's always as you said, Nurgle and Tzeentch hate each other because of philosophical differences, while Khorne hates Tzeentch for magic and Slaanesh for being a prancing little fairy, while they hate Khorne for being a mindless brute.

But given that all the Chaos gods are rivals to each other there would be natural animosity between them and their followers if they're in the same place. Who knows, maybe Khorne thinks Nurgle is too jolly and that disease is a sign of weakness, Slaanesh thinks Nurgle is ugly and unsophisticated, and so on. You could probably think of a number of logical reasons why all the gods should hate each other based on their traits.

[boli]

That sounds a lot like the "book of grudges rule" for dwarves. As in they can always dig up some reason why they hate the enemy ;)

[Kotrag]

I personally have never read anything detailing the relationships between the Chaos gods who we know don't utterly despise each other. It's always as you said, Nurgle and Tzeentch hate each other because of philosophical differences, while Khorne hates Tzeentch for magic and Slaanesh for being a prancing little fairy, while they hate Khorne for being a mindless brute.

But given that all the Chaos gods are rivals to each other there would be natural animosity between them and their followers if they're in the same place. Who knows, maybe Khorne thinks Nurgle is too jolly and that disease is a sign of weakness, Slaanesh thinks Nurgle is ugly and unsophisticated, and so on. You could probably think of a number of logical reasons why all the gods should hate each other based on their traits.

It was established in WHFRP3 that Khorne hates Nurgle because his corpulent indolence runs counter to the vitality and athleticism that Khorne embodies. Likewise, he also hates Tzeentch because he embodies dishonesty and cowardice, which runs counter to martial honour, which is another aspect of Khorne.