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View Full Version : Question about the New Vampire's, hexwraiths and Vanhel's



Blkc57
14-01-2012, 07:49
Ok so the Hexwraith Spectral Hunter attack states that if a hex wraith moves through an unengaged enemy unit during the remaining moves phase It may use its spectral attack.

The spell Vanhel's states that an unengaged unit may make a move up to 8" in the same manner as a normal movement in the remaining moves phase.

Can a unit of Hexwraiths be Danced through a unit and make its spectral attack?

We have no consensus for two reasons:
1. Some argue that the words "in the same way as a normal move in the remaining moves phase" does not make the magic phase suddenly become the remaining moves phase. Since it is now the magic phase you may not use the Spectral Attack as it can only be used in one phase.
2. Some also argue that the Spectral Attack is not a normal movement, and instead is a special movement rule that can not be used with Vanhels because the wording only allows you to make a "normal move"

Allowing Hexwraith's to Vanhel's and spectral attack creates another problem:
Far as we can tell if you allow it to happen that means you can hit the same unit twice a turn with the Spectral Attack. As you only have to nominate one unit to receive the attack at the end of the movement.

How are other people interrupting Vanhel's Dance and the Hexwraith's movement attack?

Wraith86
14-01-2012, 16:28
I would say the unit of Hexwraiths could move through the unit with Soulstrider rule under Vanhels's.
But wouldn't be able to make use of Spectral Hunter rule is it states in the Remaining Moves sub-phase, where Vanhel's only lets them move as if it were remaining moves sub-phase not act as if.

The spell doesn't create a new sub-phase when cast.

Blkc57
14-01-2012, 18:28
Ok Wraith86, so I can see that you agree with the people arguing point number 1, which a large number of people in my group and shop seemed to come to as well. That the words "in the same way as the remaining moves phase" does not create a new sub-phase for the hexwraiths to use their Spectral Hunter rule, and that it is still the magic phase.

I for one tended to agree with option 2 that Soulstrider is not a "normal movement" but is instead a special movement option available only to hexwraiths and therefore is not allowed by the rules of Vanhel's where it states a "in the same manner as a NORMAL MOVEMENT in the remaining moves sub phase". Thus Hexwariths can't even use Spectralstrider to move through a unit under Vanhel's.

Wraith86
14-01-2012, 18:53
I feel your placing spectralstrider in the same basket to flying, but it seem like the rule only effects how it moves (hence there units), unlike flying which would be a different type of movement.

Blkc57
14-01-2012, 19:44
See Wraith86, I would argue that it is a different kind of movement like flying is different. It doesn't have to obey the same principles as normal movement such as coming within 1 inch of another unit while moving and it is a special rule applicable to specific units just like flying is.

Voss
15-01-2012, 09:12
Due to the clunky wording on the spell, I lean toward the idea that they can't do either while under its influence.

The unit entry is pretty clear: both soulstrider and spectral hunters only happen during the Remaining Moves subphase.

Making a 8" move 'in the same way as a normal move made in the RM subphase' doesn't mean it is the RM subphase again. Neither the soulstriders move (nor flying, actually) are a 'normal move', and it isn't the RM subphase, so as I see it, neither would apply.

Wargeek
16-01-2012, 17:41
Danse doesn't say it creates a new phase but you have to do it the same... therefor wouldn't it act like the RM phase exactly for each unit danse is used on?

So you would move that unit the "same way" as your RM phase and then triggering their power all over again? or am I reading to much into it?

Bobtheogre
16-01-2012, 17:52
I dont think GW would have worded the spell that way unless they intended for the effects on hexwraths or anything else to happen.

It may not create a subphase, but the move is resolved as if it happened during the subphase. So my vote is they get the attack...

Better get your dispell scrolls ready.