PDA

View Full Version : First Impression: BSB- Vamp or Wight?



LotusCorgi
15-01-2012, 07:29
hello all,

don't get my new vampire counts lore tome until mon. I have a question for those lucky guys and ghouls who have the tome already. What looks better at first glance, Wight King BSB or Vampire hero BSB?

quietus1986
15-01-2012, 07:45
Wight king cheaper extra W higher T same armour. Oke lower I and Lower WS

NitrosOkay
15-01-2012, 08:15
Vampire is an extra invocation of nehek though, that means something in this book. Also more killy. Extra attack at higher weapon skill, initiative and strength.

thesheriff
15-01-2012, 08:29
Wight king all the way. 3 wounds, T5 for 85pts is a steal.

IMO, you don't need BSBs to be killy. Durability is first priority. And it's not like the wight isn't already pretty decent in combat. Killing blow is a great edition, and his offensive statline is pretty good too.

thesheriff

quietus1986
15-01-2012, 08:39
vampire with HW&SH will cost you 139 witch king will cost you 114. That's 25 less for a extra W and TH

NitrosOkay
15-01-2012, 09:42
Is it? I mean the Battle Standard in a Vampire army is just -1 wound from lost combats and occasionally leadership tests. It's not exactly a disaster if he dies. As far as an extra invocation, I mean it, it's really important.

Echunia
15-01-2012, 09:47
Vampires are more killy where as wights are more durable. It is always better to have a more durable BSB because he is worth a lot. So wight all the way, just as last edition! (3 wound BSB is amazing)

logan054
15-01-2012, 09:56
Honestly I don't think you need a BSB in a VC army, now if you want another combat character then I think its a easy choice, Vampire simply so you have a backup character incase your general dies with lore of vampire.

Texhnolyze
15-01-2012, 13:01
I'll probably take a BSB depending on how many frenzied units I got in the army ^^

Urgat
15-01-2012, 13:18
Is it? I mean the Battle Standard in a Vampire army is just -1 wound from lost combats and occasionally leadership tests. It's not exactly a disaster if he dies. As far as an extra invocation, I mean it, it's really important.

Unless you roll blood and glory. And then you regret the extra toughness :p

quietus1986
15-01-2012, 13:58
And its a extra magic banner even if dear aren't that great any more. but with"The screaming banner" would make it interesting. The extra fear dice in any unit you want.

Demoulius
15-01-2012, 16:23
No self respecting vampire would want to carry around a ragged old banner. Dont see a wight having that problem at all :D

Besides wights are 10x cooler anyway :p

The Low King
15-01-2012, 17:13
Depends on the point size. At lower points that extra damage output could be useful.

Voss
15-01-2012, 17:54
Honestly I don't think you need a BSB in a VC army, now if you want another combat character then I think its a easy choice, Vampire simply so you have a backup character incase your general dies with lore of vampire.

Pretty much this. I don't see the need to pay for a BSB in this army. There are really only 2 magic banners I care about in this army, and the relevant units can take them. Could combine them, I suppose, but if I'm going to take a BSB, I'd want to protect it with items, which you can't do if you take a banner (and frankly I'd rather have multiple threats on the table anyway)

I just have better things to do with my points, and they'll actually have a meaningful effect on the army.

meanmachine
15-01-2012, 17:56
I would probably go with a vampire for extra nehek casting

a vampire bsb can save your army from crumbling also.

TheOneHawk
15-01-2012, 18:20
I think it's a good testament to the internal balance of the book that about even numbers of people are vehemently saying one of the other.

decker_cky
15-01-2012, 18:26
My view with a VC BSB is that you just pay the 25 pts on a thrall or wight king that you have in your army already. If you were taking a wight king already, make him a BSB. If you had a hero vampire already, make him the BSB. If you have both, the wight king is generally a better idea as he's more survivable.

Okuto
15-01-2012, 19:30
Wight......Vamps feel a wee bit too expensive for me....

Voss
15-01-2012, 20:03
I'll probably take a BSB depending on how many frenzied units I got in the army ^^

Given how fast the frenzied units are (and they can march independently to boot), I'm not sure how often they'll be in the BSB bubble. It can matter for the initial charge, but after that they are off to whatever lands they can find. (As they'll likely smash right through small units, and probably lose against infantry blocks).

Aluinn
15-01-2012, 20:10
Is it? I mean the Battle Standard in a Vampire army is just -1 wound from lost combats and occasionally leadership tests. It's not exactly a disaster if he dies. As far as an extra invocation, I mean it, it's really important.

It is, but if you can get a Wight King and a Necromancer with everything you want them to have (i.e. not much in the way of upgrades beyond a great weapon for the King, maybe a Scroll or something) for the same price as a single Vampire with everything you want him to have (probably including some powers, and defensive item(s) to protect his T4, 2W butt), what is preferable? I think this makes it a clearer comparison because you do have to account for the difference in cost and to imagine what you can buy with that difference: In this case, if you need another Invocation, you can probably get a bare-bones Necromancer with what you saved, or nearly so.

(You can say that it doesn't matter much if your Vampire BSB dies, and it's true that it won't ruin you, but I mean, if you expect him to die, it's probably not worth giving him the BSB upgrade in the first place, and you're also losing that spell cast when he gets killed of course.)

I'm not saying the Vampire is necessarily an inferior choice, but the main advantage to taking him is that he can kill a lot more than a Wight King in theory, not that he is a level 1 caster, which is nice but not all that dear in an army with some of the cheapest Hero-level wizards around.


My view with a VC BSB is that you just pay the 25 pts on a thrall or wight king that you have in your army already. If you were taking a wight king already, make him a BSB. If you had a hero vampire already, make him the BSB. If you have both, the wight king is generally a better idea as he's more survivable.

I absolutely agree with this: I wouldn't stretch points to include a BSB if I didn't already have the character, but when he's already in the list for some other purpose, 25 points is well worth it for +1 CR and one less lost model to Unstable, and even those rare occasions where you actually have to use your Ld :).

Leogun_91
15-01-2012, 21:13
And its a extra magic banner even if dear aren't that great any more. but with"The screaming banner" would make it interesting. The extra fear dice in any unit you want.In which case you'd prefer a vampire as you always want the screaming banner together with Fear Incarnate.

I'd prefer to give the banner to a Wight most of the time, the wight king gives good value for it's points and you don't pay for anything you don't want in a BSB. The BSB will be kept central in the battleline and if I'd go for many Invocationcasters I'd rather have them spread out for greater options, the +4 (or +5) general will do the fully boosted invoc in the center and others will make unboosted to help their units if need be.

logan054
15-01-2012, 21:39
Wight......Vamps feel a wee bit too expensive for me....

Then again a vamp can have:

Quick Blood
Great weapon
4+ wardsave

Expensive but they are pumping out 4 S7 I6 attacks with a 4+ wardsave and then either give them lore of vampires for extra healing or lore of shadow for Miasma.

LotusCorgi
15-01-2012, 21:42
from a collectable point of view the wight king makes more sense too as there are a few different models available, I have a converted mordheim vampire BSB but he shows up to battle with no armor or weapons :wtf:. I really like the new FW wight BSB, but the model I have currently is a wight king BSB built from old plastic chaos warrior parts (the hunchback warriors). It's suitable, as I play a Von Carsteins list and I like the idea of a perished Chaos Lord from Crom's Horde reanimated as a banner caddy for his new Vampire Masters...might pick up the von carstein upgrade for the battle banner...

EDIT: 100th post! Whoo!

zielonkak
16-01-2012, 03:45
cant the vamp buy an additional wound too with the powers? or is that for the lord?

Aluinn
16-01-2012, 04:24
cant the vamp buy an additional wound too with the powers? or is that for the lord?

It's just barely too expensive for a Hero to take. Though even if it was the required 5 points less, it still wouldn't likely be worth it, since it would multiply his cost (leaving out magic items) by about 1.5.

N1AK
16-01-2012, 10:42
Personally I don't think there's a lot of point to buying a BSB character. It may be worth spending 25pts to make a character you were already going to take into a BSB.

If I was going to field a Vamp hero caster I'd be tempted to buy him the BSB upgrade. If I was going to take a combat Wight then it'd be the same. If I was taking both then the survivability of the Wight would probably get him the banner.