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GrandDukeJerot
16-01-2012, 02:03
Hey there, just finished up my first army (Orks) and decided to start Space Marines with an amazon gift card. I ordered a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer box and a box of normal Termies. I'm not 100% sure which chapter I want to play though. After Orks, I want an elite army whose success doesn't ride on one mega turn of charging everything humanly(or I guess orkily) possible. I also want something I can put a lot of detail into and be proud of my painting.

I know for sure I don't want to play BA, SW, or DA - their styles just don't jam with me. A friend tried to convince me to go back to Salamanders (I played them a looooong time ago back when my painting was awful). That's tempting, but I'm not 100% sold. I have also been considering Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Pre-Heresy Iron Warriors (that would be an expensive and slow project). This would probably be done as a plog on here once I've accumulated enough models here at school to keep me going until summer. If people could weigh in with their thoughts / ideas, I'd love to get some inspiration for a full army!

Notanoob
16-01-2012, 02:06
How about Black Templars? You could have a cool theme going with Ghazie against Chaplain Grimdalus, besides BT being an awesome army.

GrandDukeJerot
16-01-2012, 02:08
How about Black Templars? You could have a cool theme going with Ghazie against Chaplain Grimdalus, besides BT being an awesome army.

I had considered Templar at a point, but aren't they vaguely horde-ish (compared to normal marines) and cc oriented?

ForgottenLore
16-01-2012, 02:15
Create your own chapter. It's the only way to go.

Notanoob
16-01-2012, 02:19
They can be CC oriented. Certainly they are fluff wise. But the whole hoard thing is a bit of a joke to me-they can field less regular marines than any other book because they lack devestators, and their regular squads only can have more than 10 guys because they can take scouts in a squad. More likely you'll see 5 man squads with a special and heavy weapon (the feared min/max las/plas squads of ye olde 4th edition) and a few 5 man squads of Tactical Terminators with 2 CMLs and Tank Hunters.

The book in general benefits from its old fashion roots. It doesn't have minimum sized squad requirements for for additional guns. It has Power of the Machine Spirit as an upgrade for all tanks, including Vindicators and Predators. It has an armory with all sorts of stuff like the Adamantium Mantle. It has Veteran Skills available for its elites, including a Venerable Dread that doesn't cost a fortune. Best of all is the Emperor Champion, which allows you to give your entire army Preferred Enemy for dirt cheap. And thanks to the FAQ, they get Storm Shields just like regular vanilla marines but on their assault squads too, and identical land speeders for cheap.

Basically, you can run them however the hell you feel so long as you weren't going for a bike or jumper heavy list.

If you don't go with them, I'd say the other chapter of Dorn's geneseed, the Imperial (or heck, Crimson) Fists.

Okuto
16-01-2012, 02:32
Make your own chapter I say.....but I'd say Imperial Fist as I'm an Imperial Fist player

GrimZAG
16-01-2012, 02:34
I would say Chaos Space marines first, but seeing as you probably want normal marines I would suggest Imperial Fists from the options above. I've always loved the look of Imperial Fists and perhaps the yellow would be a welcome change to all that green?

GrandDukeJerot
16-01-2012, 02:36
They can be CC oriented. Certainly they are fluff wise. But the whole hoard thing is a bit of a joke to me-they can field less regular marines than any other book because they lack devestators, and their regular squads only can have more than 10 guys because they can take scouts in a squad. More likely you'll see 5 man squads with a special and heavy weapon (the feared min/max las/plas squads of ye olde 4th edition) and a few 5 man squads of Tactical Terminators with 2 CMLs and Tank Hunters.

The book in general benefits from its old fashion roots. It doesn't have minimum sized squad requirements for for additional guns. It has Power of the Machine Spirit as an upgrade for all tanks, including Vindicators and Predators. It has an armory with all sorts of stuff like the Adamantium Mantle. It has Veteran Skills available for its elites, including a Venerable Dread that doesn't cost a fortune. Best of all is the Emperor Champion, which allows you to give your entire army Preferred Enemy for dirt cheap. And thanks to the FAQ, they get Storm Shields just like regular vanilla marines but on their assault squads too, and identical land speeders for cheap.

Basically, you can run them however the hell you feel so long as you weren't going for a bike or jumper heavy list.

If you don't go with them, I'd say the other chapter of Dorn's geneseed, the Imperial (or heck, Crimson) Fists.

Interesting. Well I think I'll put off the idea of Black Templar for now - if I end up playing an army that descends from Dorn, it will be Imperial Fists.

@ForgottenLore & Okuto: I'm not a huge fan of making my own custom chapter. I've tried it in the past and the army always feels hollow. I like the history of the established Chapters and its cool to have your army have deep ties in the game's history.

Everyone here seems to be pushing IF. For any IF painters out there, how hard is it to paint a whole army yellow? I'm at best an intermediate painter and I fear I would not do well with the color scheme.

Edit: @Grimzag: I was originally considering CSM, but the combination of the weak book and the extreme unavailability of Chaos models on Amazon made me go loyalist. If I were to do CSM, I'd do 1k sons, just because they are my favorite legion. Maybe that will be the next project?

Chem-Dog
16-01-2012, 03:40
Sons of Dorn. Nothing proves your painting mettle more than painting an army of yellow guys and managing to still make them look like the hardest sons of bitches in the galaxy.


VII Legion!!!!!!!!

GrandDukeJerot
16-01-2012, 03:47
Yeah, at this point I'm pretty sold on IF. I like the long range aspect of them, the history and the heraldry is fascinating. It seems really hard to do right, but I guess no endeavor worth taking on is ever easy.

So right now, the only things set in stone for my list are Lysander, 5 normal Termies, and a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer. I would like to try as many different things while still having a fluffy list. Any suggestions about things to take, or which Land Raider variation to pick?

spaint2k
16-01-2012, 04:02
Everyone here seems to be pushing IF. For any IF painters out there, how hard is it to paint a whole army yellow? I'm at best an intermediate painter and I fear I would not do well with the color scheme.


I highly recommend you do some rooting around the painting logs and so on first so you can find a good way of painting yellow quickly and effectively. It might be worth going with a colour that you can spray on in large batches (e.g. Tamiya's mustard yellow), then wash with something like Gryphon Sepia, before finishing off with some final highlights (maybe Iyanden Darksun?).

If you plan your scheme well, the painting will be fairly fast and look great. If you don't, you'll run the risk of having a paint scheme that takes forever and discourages you. That, or you'll find a better way of painting halfway through and you'll either end up with a two-colour army or you'll have to go back and repaint your earlier models.

Good luck!

GrimZAG
16-01-2012, 04:13
Edit: @Grimzag: I was originally considering CSM, but the combination of the weak book and the extreme unavailability of Chaos models on Amazon made me go loyalist. If I were to do CSM, I'd do 1k sons, just because they are my favorite legion. Maybe that will be the next project?

We appear to have similar taste. I did play 1k Sons before 5th Ed, I would consider IF for loyalist marines and I also play lizardmen.

Good luck with it, I'd start with the obligatory 2 x tactical squads and Lysander, and as others have suggested, have a look around the painting blogs to find a good fit.

thorgrim
16-01-2012, 04:33
Might i weigh in with a curve ball? Hows about the Iron Hands? True the colour scheme is simple (black armour, silver trim and white weapons casings and details). But if pulled off look fantastic. Also the Hands allow for a lot of customization on a man to man basis and the tactical squad set for them is fantastic value considering its a stadard tactical squad with extras.

Downsides are that there are no special characters and you would be really restricted by the fluff if you followed it to the letter (Iron fathers are chaplins and masters of the forge, no terminator squads, sergeants can wear terminator armour). Also on a background note the new fluff involving them coming through in the HH series makes for some cool reading dispite them only getting 'guest spots' so far.

And yes i am a massive Hands fan :p

Chem-Dog
16-01-2012, 04:46
So right now, the only things set in stone for my list are Lysander, 5 normal Termies, and a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer. I would like to try as many different things while still having a fluffy list. Any suggestions about things to take, or which Land Raider variation to pick?

Personally, I'd always say take the Crusader. The Redeemer is a poor imitation and the Phobos is actually pants.
Beyond that, go with your gut. The Fists are ostensibly Codex in their approach so anything in the Codex is fair game.
However, a Tech-Marine or two will make your army incredibly hard to shift out of cover as Lysander (inexplicably) and all varieties of Tech Marine come with Bolster Defences (especially nasty if combined with Camo Cloak equipped Scouts).
Give Pedro Kantor a look too, he's not the meanest hombre in a fight but he's pretty handy and, if you end up stacking up a few Sternguard units, he suddenly gets mighty interesting (it helps that he's covered in Fist Iconography too :D). He also, like Lysander, can make the Army Stubborn, and everybody knows Stubborn's cool :D

D503
16-01-2012, 06:47
If you create your own chapter you can use them as any of the marine codexes.

Mine were salamanders, now they are blood angels, and soon they will probably be black Templars. If you stick to core units, avoid min maxing or niche units too much and have a few magnetised bits and a couple of spare marines, you can play anything you like.

You will catch a bucketload of vehement nerd rage on these forums for doing that, but people in the shop will understand. It's an expensive hobby, and doing that is the best benefit of playing marines.

And getting a new codex every year is kinda cool.

laudarkul
16-01-2012, 09:09
Pre heresy Iron Warrior. Slow process but impressive on the gaming table. And you can add also a Basilisk for old time memories.

HunteR got bored
16-01-2012, 09:27
Whatever you do, DON'T go ultramarines. There are to many noob players playing as them.

DietDolphin
16-01-2012, 10:08
Might i weigh in with a curve ball? Hows about the Iron Hands? True the colour scheme is simple (black armour, silver trim and white weapons casings and details). But if pulled off look fantastic. Also the Hands allow for a lot of customization on a man to man basis and the tactical squad set for them is fantastic value considering its a stadard tactical squad with extras.

Downsides are that there are no special characters and you would be really restricted by the fluff if you followed it to the letter (Iron fathers are chaplins and masters of the forge, no terminator squads, sergeants can wear terminator armour). Also on a background note the new fluff involving them coming through in the HH series makes for some cool reading dispite them only getting 'guest spots' so far.

And yes i am a massive Hands fan :p

I concur, Iron Hands are classy, Ferrus Manus is a BOSS, and no one plays them so you won't just be one-of-the-pack, especially if you take the time to do lots of neat mechanical conversions. Although if your not interested in painting an all black army, then take a look their successor chapter the Sons of Medusa, who are green and white.

However if that doesn't interest you, then i say Imperial Fists or make your own chapter...

GrandDukeJerot
16-01-2012, 20:43
Thank you guys for all the advice. After discovering I could get Steam Knight heads for cheap and GS normal tac marines to make MKIII armor, I have decided to make a Pre/Heresy Iron Warriors army that I can use as either Chaos or Space Marines as I see fit.

Chem-Dog
16-01-2012, 20:55
Ferrus Manus is a BOSS

No he isn't [/Fulgrim]

:p

GrandDukeJerot
16-01-2012, 21:23
No he isn't [/Fulgrim]

:p

Peturabo has always been my favorite.

Vedar
16-01-2012, 23:41
Salamanders are the current glory boys of SMs. Vulcan/metla/TH spam. Yawn.
Imperial Fists are yellow. YELLOW! yellow is one of the harder to paint colors and they are yellow.
Ultramarines are the glory boys of GW and 12 year olds.

So go with Pre-Heresy Iron Warriors as I'm not biased at all....

Techmarine
16-01-2012, 23:50
Salamanders are an awesome Chapter with a lot of depth to them. You just can't go wrong, brother. :D

Imperial Fists are stoic and stubborn as all hell; and if you can manage yellow - they look awesome. Another good choice.

Ultramarines are a solid choice, but they seem to be the focal-point of angsty Chaos / Xeno players. You might have to listen to a rant from a jaded neckbeard now and then.

I'd avoid the Iron Warriors, pre-Heresy or not. They have, what I consider, a visually abrasive color-scheme, and are still a "fan favorite" of most Chaos players from the busted Chaos glory days. So you'll see a lot of them.

DietDolphin
17-01-2012, 05:00
No he isn't [/Fulgrim]

:p

Yes he is, and more importantly, me and my Ultramarines are most BOSS! [/Guilliman]

Oh wait...

Str10_hurts
17-01-2012, 06:13
Lol, seems I was the first that just voted Ultramarines.
This is because they are the poster boys everyone will say do not go Ultra its boring so noone has them, good thing I do!

They make for a great looking table top army. Blue and choose your color of the accent you want.

GrandDukeJerot
17-01-2012, 08:46
Gah, 12 hours ago I was convinced I was locked into pre-heresy Iron Warriors. Then I realized, the only reason I wanted to do pre-heresy Iron Warriors was because they were pre-heresy. So I guess any suggestions on a pre-heresy army to play would be awesome.

Right now it's a tie in my mind between Imp Fists and Iron Warriors. I'm digging the yellow a lot, especially because it looks bright and clean next to my dark and dirty orks. The attraction to yellow pushes me towards Fists, but then I remember how much more of a boss Peturabo was than Dorn and they are both even.

Shadowheart
17-01-2012, 08:56
How about you paint yourself up a squad of Fists, see how you like it? Maybe you'll want to do a whole army like that, or maybe you'll get the yellow bug out of your system.

If in doubt, go with what you enjoy painting most.

GrandDukeJerot
17-01-2012, 09:06
That is... a surprisingly reasonable idea! I'll have my friend bring some test models down next time he visits.

d6juggernaut
17-01-2012, 09:23
Whatever you do, DON'T go ultramarines. There are to many noob players playing as them.

Well aren't you just edgy and non-mainstream:angel:

Actually Ultramarines do have a pretty dull color scheme, but they can be done very well if you stick to their Roman style aesthetic. Just don't throw ugly looking static marines on the table and you're good. Vanilla codex is a bit weak compared to the other marines but still a high tier book, plenty of options.

Salamander has a great color scheme, plenty of powerful army builds, and Vulcan looks amazing

White Scar, because they're white, and have bikes.

Blood Angel is probably the best overall book to use for marines, other than the mandatory Assault Marine as troops problem, everything else is quite balanced and effective.

Space Wolves are very powerful, but you'll gain the nasty habit of putting 3 squads of Long Fangs in all of your list(including Xeno ones). And because some Space Wolves heads look a bit ridiculous

Or you can always take the high road and go Grey Knights:angel:

GrandDukeJerot
17-01-2012, 09:43
Well, if you read the OP, Blood Angels and Space Wolves are out. Also, GK are not Pre-Heresy (from my understanding) so they are also out.

Lars Porsenna
17-01-2012, 15:16
I'm biased, but I am going to suggest RAVEN GUARD! They have 2 special characters (Kayvaan and Korvydae, the latter from Forgeworld), lots of bits and a dread from Forgeworld (including a great decal sheet!), but use the regular C: SM book. Great color scheme that is easy to paint: black with white insignia, entire army can be painted with a rattle can of flat black spraypaint!

I switched from painting Salamanders, and am finding RG a lot more satisfying from a background as well as painting aspect!

Damon.

Murrithius
17-01-2012, 17:32
Pre Heresy Word Bearers!!! An army of Religious nutters...

Hmm, actually that might be better represented using the BT codex....

GrandDukeJerot
18-01-2012, 05:25
Well, I just dropped about 70 bucks on various supplies today in preparation - mainly plasticard, rare earth magnets, and greenstuff, and the tools requisite for dealing with them. I should have everything I need in my dorm room by end of next week, along with something to use them on (tac squad, termies or LRC/Redeemer kit).

At this point, I've narrowed it down to Ultramarines, Salamanders, or Imperial Fists. I like the solid, strong colors they provide, as well as the rich history that they all have. I think I'll try to figure out which one I enjoy painting the most and go from there.

The Death of Reason
18-01-2012, 07:29
The answer is obvious:

The Rainbow Warriors wants you :)

- besides, taking a non-codex chapter allows you to use your models in more than one way, as you can play them under one codex the one day and another the next :)

Necr0n
18-01-2012, 19:18
I see the OP said no Dark Angels, but I'm pretty sure you will be fascinated. Here's why:

-They have a great looking Dark Green base colour.(easy to paint)

-They can be pre-heresy.

-They have the best SM fluff(in my mind). Go Lion!

-They are elite(You said you liked Elite armies)

-They have Deathwing/Ravenwing that have the different colour schemes that are just gonna make your
army stand out in a crowd.Plus they are great fluffwise.

-They have very fun/powerful lists unlike the boring tactical squad lists C:SM has to offer.

-They can play either as Tactical Squads, Terminator lists, Bike lists, Double-Wings. Mech. Anything is as powerful, unlike the C:SM that only offers a list or two of competitive lists.(I myself like to play with lots of Terminators, combined with a squad of bikes and a couple of Land Speeders)

-They are not so OP so nobody is gonna cry cheese on you

-They have a different codex on their own

-You are going to be proud owner of one of the most Fluffy, beautiful armies.

-There are infinite FW kits and stuff, even from GW to make your models even more stand out in a crowd.

You can even make them Betrayers and play as Codex:Chaos Space Marines.

Bennybenben12
31-01-2012, 03:55
iron hands all he way!! flesh is weak!!

Dr.Clock
31-01-2012, 06:31
I like the idea to try and figure out which one you like painting most... as this is how you are going to spending alot of your time with the force.

However, I'd also suggest a deeper consideration of heraldry and design, as converting a force is at least half the fun.

With Ultras, you've got that very strict, codified, united feel of a Roman Legion. Horse-hair plumes, laurels, standardized markings, gladius... these are all very evocative if done right. Ultras used to be my least favourite Chapter due to their 'standard' appearance in every GW publication... but recent work on this forum, as well as in BL books etc. has tempered that for me.

With IF, you can get a little more rugged and utilitarian. I always picture plenty of weathering, field-repairs, siege-shields/mantlets, and of course fists on every possible surface. This is all complemented by a very striking basic scheme, which makes the contrast between brutal efficiency and overstated heraldry all the more impressive.

With Salamanders (my own pick), you get a very solid yet simple idea: dragon warriors. One of the most rewarding things about doing Sallies IMO is that GW have basically done most of the converting work for you in the Lizardmen range. They combine the Aztec/Mayan/Lizard thing perfectly. Buy a single box of saurus warriors and you should be set for converting for some time. I've used saurus heads as Thunder Hammer heads, their crests as shoulder-pas accents, shields as combat-shields, hand-weapons as power-weapons (my favourite is a mace with two spear head sticking out of one side as a sort of bludgeon-axe)... the possibilities are endless. Sallies also give you a chance to work the yellow/red if you mix in accents from their old scheme. My termies, for example, have their greaves and shoulder-pads done up in the red/yellow/black lava-type scheme which looks pretty dope alongside the greed.

What I will say, is stay away from Vulkan. His ability is just silly. I want my Sallies to be hanging on down to the wire and using close support and dogged determination to win out... not inexplicably better heat-based weapons. If I use a SC, it's Lysander, but recently in games around 2000 points I go with a MoTF in order to squeeze in MM Devs+2x6sternguard+vindie+2xdreads for some serious short-range firepower fun. Plus, harnessed MotF in a sternguard squad is fun all the time.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

The Death of Reason
31-01-2012, 08:09
Whatever you do, DON'T go ultramarines. There are to many noob players playing as them.

Sorry mate. This argument is on par with 'don't play eldar, cuz they're gay' :p

I'd recommend making your own chapter. Not only is it a fun and creative process, but it allows you to use your models with various codex rules without bringing with them the stigma of GW colour coding :)

That or go with the Rainbow Warriors, nothing better to demonstrate supreme knowledge of 40k lore :)

Warpcrafter
31-01-2012, 09:12
I voted before looking at your first post. I just nabbed a big Space Wolves army off of Ebay cheap, and I'm really jazzed about starting to paint them. I picked them because of the background. I just got done reading Prospero Burns and Battle of the Fang back to back, so I feel like I have an understanding of The Rout, as they call themselves. I also like the barbaric style, with the rune stones, wolf fangs and wild hair and beards everywhere. However, if you want to stand out, try a Howling Griffons army. I've never seen anyone actually paint them up as a decent sized army outside of White Dwarf and a couple of guys who are pro painters.