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valle
18-01-2012, 08:16
I had a game the other day against an OK player and we had a little discussion about how to deploy. I have always done it the way that each side have the same amount of placements, so that if one have 14 units to place and the other have 7 the guy with 14 place 2 every time he deploys. He on the other hand wanted to just take turns, giving himself a huge tactical advantage since i had placed all my goodies while he was placing 4 single sabretusks and a small unit of 12 gnoblars and so on, meaning that he could tailor so he face whatever unit he wants with his hammer units... What's the general way to do this? Am I wrong in thinking that this is a bit unsporting? I just got on with the game and didnt make a huge deal out of it but I would like to know the general opinion about deployment rules.

vcassano
18-01-2012, 08:20
Err, look in the rulebook? You do know that it is an advantage to have lots of disposable units - it allows you to control the deployment phase more effectively. Of course, the downside is that the person who finishes deployment first gains a +1 to the first turn roll.

nzdarkelf
18-01-2012, 08:22
I have ALWAYS deployed the way your OK opponent called it, unless the scenario dictated otherwise. Your way is an interesting idea, but I would think most people would see it as gamey on your part. You will of course get a +1 on the die roll for 1st turn.

Urgat
18-01-2012, 08:23
I had a game the other day against an OK player and we had a little discussion about how to deploy. I have always done it the way that each side have the same amount of placements, so that if one have 14 units to place and the other have 7 the guy with 14 place 2 every time he deploys. He on the other hand wanted to just take turns, giving himself a huge tactical advantage since i had placed all my goodies while he was placing 4 single sabretusks and a small unit of 12 gnoblars and so on, meaning that he could tailor so he face whatever unit he wants with his hammer units... What's the general way to do this? Am I wrong in thinking that this is a bit unsporting? I just got on with the game and didnt make a huge deal out of it but I would like to know the general opinion about deployment rules.

I'm afraid you are wrong indeed. He does as in the BRB, and having more units and deploy the rabble first has always been a major point for outdoing the opponent's deployement, one of the advantages of playing horde armies over elite ones.

valle
18-01-2012, 08:38
So I am, well nice to get it sorted though... I am an old timer who have been out of the game for both 6th and 7th edition, so some of the rules I remember are all the way back to 4th ;) And perhaps even then im not sure if it was local house rules in my gaming community or offcial rules... Direwolfs just got a bit more tasty though

Aluinn
18-01-2012, 08:54
I have ALWAYS deployed the way your OK opponent called it, unless the scenario dictated otherwise. Your way is an interesting idea, but I would think most people would see it as gamey on your part. You will of course get a +1 on the die roll for 1st turn.

Yeah this. I think it's usually, unless your army is extremely shooty, more advantageous to give your opponent the +1 but have more trash drops, because controlling matchups between units is often a bigger deal than being the first person to move forward. Moreoever, your trash drops will probably be useful as redirectors and allow you even greater control over what will fight against what as the game progresses, though there are some that can't be used effectively in this way, e.g. cheap chariots.

More explicitly, for newer players, start deploying with your cheap and expendable units. If your opponent runs out of these before you do, which is almost certain if you're the player with more units overall, then they're forced to commit an important, expensive unit, or even a couple of them, before you have to deploy any of your own, and thus you can either place units across from these which can counter them, deploy far away to delay combat, or do any number of other things that will mess with your opponent.

Fast-moving chaff is generally the most desirable for this reason, as you can drop it in anywhere in your deployment zone, not giving your opponent any clue as to where your important units will go and with the option to actually deploy in a completely different place, but still be able to get that chaff unit involved in the battle in some way.

Small, cheap ranged units are also useful for this purpose, e.g. 10 Empire crossbowmen, as they don't mind being fairly far from the action and so can be freely used to throw your opponent's deployment off. (Not necessarily because they're going to think: "Aha! His crossbowmen are on the right side of the board, therefore I should put everything there!", since an experienced opponent will not fall for that, but rather because it gives them no real information about where your main body of combat units will be placed.)

@Valle: As you're a VC player, for some specific examples, I recommend units of 5-10 Dire Wolves, single Spirit Host bases (you can have up to three), and/or Bat Swarms for this purpose. Sadly the Corpse Cart can't be used towards this end, even though it is a cheap unit, because it does have to be with your main formation in order to be useful, but all the same I think the new book gave us a lot more viable options and we're actually a bit spoiled for choice in this, nowadays.

boli
18-01-2012, 09:32
Just be glad its not 4th edition... you just rolled a dice and the looser set up first giving whoever set up second a significant advantage.

Rosstifer
18-01-2012, 09:49
He played it right. Hence why I have 4 units of Warhounds in my WOC , and half the worlds supply of Chaff in my Daemon army (Although Daemon Chaff is awesome.)

Thénon
18-01-2012, 10:10
For an elite army deploying against a horde my hard tasty units first with the chaff like gnoblars, hound, furries etc secound. usually i try to use the board and tarain as best i can with chaff providing speed bumps for his killy units (gnoblars are especially lethal speed bumbs btw). if i`m gonna take a hammer to the face i`d rather just take 1 than 2 or 3. try and limit how many bodies he can throw at you so you can smash through one big unit at a time.

For a horde army chaff first, this lets you find how/where he deploys his hard hitting army so you can plan a defence for him, be it tarpitting or other.

again it can really be down to tarrain features and your opponants army. One game against vampires i had my swordmaster charged by a medium sized unit of skellies(33 if i remember right). But from a blood tower and through a icey river. Thus leading to rerolling to hit skellies. add in the "i give you my weap skill" vamp behind them and my hammer unit went squish.

valle
18-01-2012, 10:12
Just be glad its not 4th edition... you just rolled a dice and the looser set up first giving whoever set up second a significant advantage.

Ohh yah, thats right, well I think most gaming communities used houserules back then though.

zoggin-eck
18-01-2012, 11:15
Just be glad its not 4th edition... you just rolled a dice and the looser set up first giving whoever set up second a significant advantage.

Hey, my usual opponent and I still use this way quite often. The "loser" chooses who goes first, but I guess we use our own terrain setup rules, too.

vcassano
18-01-2012, 11:26
He played it right. Hence why I have 4 units of Warhounds in my WOC , and half the worlds supply of Chaff in my Daemon army (Although Daemon Chaff is awesome.)

Yes! Warhounds are fantastic, and I am certainly envious of Daemonic chaff. My Beasts do alright, though, I suppose.

Urgat
18-01-2012, 11:27
It's funny than my chaff is also pretty much most of my army :p Goblins go!

Spiney Norman
18-01-2012, 12:19
We usually use the rule book method to be honest, I find that the advantage gained by having more drops than your opponent is a good balancing factor to people who take death-star units with half their army points invested in a single unit.

Alternatively we have experimented with a house rule for deployment, where both players secretly draw a map of their deployment zone and which units deploy where, then simultaneously reveal the maps and place the units accordingly. I've actually found that to be a positive experience because it makes you think more about your own battle plan than constantly trying to counter your opponent's deployments.

Urgat
18-01-2012, 13:52
Alternatively we have experimented with a house rule for deployment, where both players secretly draw a map of their deployment zone and which units deploy where, then simultaneously reveal the maps and place the units accordingly. I've actually found that to be a positive experience because it makes you think more about your own battle plan than constantly trying to counter your opponent's deployments.

During 5th ed, we did something a bit like that, though I can't remember if it was an actual rule, or a houserule. We called it hidden deployement; my gaming board is actually 4 wooden boards stuck together (with green felt on them, they used to be very large shelves, a godsent really, the only drawback, really, is that they're quite larger than a battleground should be when put together), and I have those very large (like more than a meter wide), thin boards of polystyrene, so we'd just stick those styrene sheets up between the boards, effectively hidding completely the opponent's side, than we'd deploy completely concealed. We then would immitate rolling drums as we'd pull up the styrene sheets, and, usually, the comments were along the lines of "woops!" or "Oh. Crap." :p That was actually pretty fun, we should do that again.