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logan054
22-01-2012, 00:03
So just curious what peoples view of this rule is, what the strengths are, do they find it abusive and if so why

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 00:08
it's a nearly 200pt character. How do you think it's special rule compares with other codex options in the past year or so is the better question.

logan054
22-01-2012, 00:19
Its certainly very true but the rule is what 25pts when you compare a grandmaster to a brother captain (well less because of the higher BS as well so maye 20? I was just curious what the masses make it, I know several who are starting to think the scout aspect is insanely good.

Vaktathi
22-01-2012, 01:09
I feel it is unnecessary. Grand Masters are already as capable (if not moreso) as many other similarly costed units without that ability, and it feels fairly arbitrary given that many other commanders in other armies would have similar levels of battlefield experience but don't have such capabilities.

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 01:49
yes, because they are all psychic and dealing with resources like the grey knights have... =p

Vaktathi
22-01-2012, 02:38
yes, because they are all psychic and dealing with resources like the grey knights have... =pBeing psychic has nothing to do with battlefield experience, and many SM chapters have huge amounts of stuff at their disposal and centuries of combat experience but don't get to make Dreadnoughts scoring or give Terminarors Scouts. You'd think Abaddon would have more battlefield experience in his left foot than any Grey Knight grand master given that he helped lead the Great Crusade and has been fighting for ten millenia, through 13 Black Crusades and god knows how many conflicts within the Eye of Terror.

That was the point I was making, for their cost, they're already on par with many similar units in terms of killyness and utility, and in terms of background it's odd they get something that could easily apply to many others. It feels unnecessary.

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 04:50
Being psychic has nothing to do with battlefield experience, and many SM chapters have huge amounts of stuff at their disposal and centuries of combat experience but don't get to make Dreadnoughts scoring or give Terminarors Scouts. You'd think Abaddon would have more battlefield experience in his left foot than any Grey Knight grand master given that he helped lead the Great Crusade and has been fighting for ten millenia, through 13 Black Crusades and god knows how many conflicts within the Eye of Terror.

That was the point I was making, for their cost, they're already on par with many similar units in terms of killyness and utility, and in terms of background it's odd they get something that could easily apply to many others. It feels unnecessary.

And yet he isn't able to do a psychic communion with his troops... your point about experience isn't valid.

Specially with all the plot holes in 40k =P

Vaktathi
22-01-2012, 05:01
And yet he isn't able to do a psychic communion with his troops... your point about experience isn't valid.

Um, what does Psychic Communion have to do with Grand Strategy? Nothing that I can find. That's a "GK's being psykers" ability. Abaddon isn't a psyker.

Grand Strategy is all about experience and command ability, I'd think experience would be valid.

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 07:00
who do you think can command troops better?

a) abaddon with 10k years of experience

or

b) commander with ability to psychicly communicate with his troops at all times, psychicly know where they are roughly etc, and who tactically is almost the equal of mr abaddon who has no such ability?

Felwether
22-01-2012, 07:10
who do you think can command troops better?

a) abaddon with 10k years of experience

or

b) commander with ability to psychicly communicate with his troops at all times, psychicly know where they are roughly etc, and who tactically is almost the equal of mr abaddon who has no such ability?

Er... there is such a thing as a military vox net. Abaddon would be able to communicate with his troops at all times as well - they have radios. :confused:

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 07:30
that form of communication is more prone to jamming, and also slower and less accurate.

Telepathy in sci-fi has always been the "omg they are soo perfectly coordinated" kind of boon that it is here =P

Or alternatively "hand wave" magic.

Vaktathi
22-01-2012, 07:47
who do you think can command troops better?

a) abaddon with 10k years of experience

or

b) commander with ability to psychicly communicate with his troops at all times, psychicly know where they are roughly etc, and who tactically is almost the equal of mr abaddon who has no such ability?


that form of communication is more prone to jamming, and also slower and less accurate.

Telepathy in sci-fi has always been the "omg they are soo perfectly coordinated" kind of boon that it is here =P

Or alternatively "hand wave" magic.This also assumes that there's no pyschic/warp interference (which happens to be fairly commonplace on many 40k battlefields)just as with a vox network, and that everyone is receptive. The ability also notes that it takes significant concentration and it's not constant always-on direct communication, rather it's a guide/command telling his troops when/where they are needed, not a constant stream of communications and information.

Certainly men who built an empire and fought to tear it down for ten thousand years at each others sides would be extremely well coordinated as well, knowing their place and orders, and how their commander would have them respond to dynamic situations, like second nature.

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 08:16
*sigh* then if you really really want abaddon to have it, house rule it and go on...

I've offered some explanations that were asked for, if you continue to argue against it nothing will satisfy you unless the oldest is the smartest.

let me point a few keys under the grandmaster.


"eight grandmasters of the grey knight, spiritual heir of one of the eight founding grandmasters all those millennia ago, battled on ten thousand worlds, and approved with unanimous approval...under a grand master's guiding will... adopt non-standard doctrines with precision and speed... apt to control his subordinates minds if it will bring victory

yeah, nothing psychic at all involved with that.


This also assumes that there's no pyschic/warp interference (which happens to be fairly commonplace on many 40k battlefields)just as with a vox network, and that everyone is receptive.

His ability basically only works with actual greyknights, which *gasp*! are Psychic. (it affects all but characters, henchmen, and mordraks ghost knights) guess what that leaves in the grey knight codex that's not psychic? nadda.

You think a army that's entire list right down to their damn Rhino's is psychic isn't receptive?

The Marshel
22-01-2012, 09:00
one method of battlefield communication does not negate all other methods of battlefield communication. You're treating this as if psychic communication is a flawless and perfect way to command one's units, but there are numerous other methods that are just as valid, just as reliable and just as useful.

If you really want to hammer in the psychic communication stuff though, lets bring thousand sons into the picture. the entire legion is comprised of either psychically receptive chaos sorcerers or rubric marines directly controlled by those chaos sorcerers, so under the justifications you offer for Grand strategy, Thousand sons should also be quite capable of similar skills

How about tyranids? every organism is run under a single hive mind focused on the synapses of the leader creatures. true, when you stray to far you lose this hive mind, but even within it nids don't receive bonuses similar to grand strategy, despite the fact that based on your own justifications, they qualify for it even better. Basically all they get is the ability to ignore some inbuilt weaknesses when based on your own arguments they could be gaining rules like scouts, scoring, tank hunters etc (this actually sounds really cool, why doesn't it already exist?)

Back to chaos again, as leader of the black crusades, Abaddon would have a huge number of psychic receptive marines and sorcerers under his command and could easily use them to set up a psychic communication network. again, no fancy grand strategy esq.

Imperial guard begin to break the mold here. orders may not have the same game long effects, but we're looking at a communication based rule that grants significant advantages that works through a radio system. So evidently, this style of bonus special rules does exist without the need for fancy psyker based justification.

similarly, I believe 4th ed marines, current Dark angles and the 5th ed Captain Sicarius all have/had access to a special "rites of battle" rule, which basically allowed tactical squads to gain rules such as infiltrate and tank hunters. this was based on the captains ability to command his armies and his large pool of expiration. This is basically grand strategy, just with different rules available. given tactical marines usually aren't psykers, and captains usually aren't psykers, its starting to seem like pyskers being better at communicating isn't really a solid justification for the rule.

Pyschic communication within 40k is not really anymore reliable then other forms, just different. warp interference has already been mentioned as an issue, which is something you've ignored and it's a pretty important flaw because the primary enemy of the GK is pretty good at the whole warp interference thing. there are many other examples of highly psychic armies that do not recieve these styles of rules and no so psychic armies that do.

tl/dr version
Psychic communication is a justification for the rule, but not an explanation why other armies don't have similar styles of rules

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 09:05
yes no other army has a character that confers to a squad or several the ability to be scoring
yes no other army has a character that confers to a squad or several the ability to be scouts/infiltrate
yes no other army has a character that confers to a squad or several the ability to counter attack
yes no other army has a character that confers to a squad or several the ability to rerolls of sorts.

Yes no other army has a character that can pick and do one of the four, but meh many armies have the ability to replicate any one of the four in some shape or fashion. I'm not sure I'd get all hurt about grey knights having this and no one else having it. I'm not upset grey knights don't have shadow of the warp like ability considering how firmly they can control things in their areas.

The Marshel
22-01-2012, 09:30
yes no other army has a character that confers to a squad or several the ability to be scoring
yes no other army has a character that confers to a squad or several the ability to be scouts/infiltrate
yes no other army has a character that confers to a squad or several the ability to counter attack
yes no other army has a character that confers to a squad or several the ability to rerolls of sorts.

Yes no other army has a character that can pick and do one of the four, but meh many armies have the ability to replicate any one of the four in some shape or fashion. I'm not sure I'd get all hurt about grey knights having this and no one else having it. I'm not upset grey knights don't have shadow of the warp like ability considering how firmly they can control things in their areas.

the point really isn't that other armies should/do/don't have similar. the point is that there is no real solid reason why GK should have it when others don't which is why Vaktathi comments that "It feels unnecessary". arguing that psychic communication is a perfect system of communication that no other commanders within 40k are capable of replicating is a very flawed argument and doesnt chage the fact that grand strategy "feels unnecessary"

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 09:37
Dual wielding Power Fists "feels unnecessary" to me, but I'm not upset about it.

If you want to go with the solid reason thing... there's no solid reason any army should have many of it's abilities other than it's something interesting and fun for them.

There's no solid reason why many codex have things in them, they just do and it's there now.

Has grand strategy done anything overpowered that's not replicated by dozens of other HQ options? Are there other HQ options that do similiar things and do it better?
yeap.

Great, what's the problem again?

NixonAsADaemonPrince
22-01-2012, 10:01
You seem to be the one who is overly zealous about this rule Iantzkev ;)

On topic, I think the rule's fine. I certainly agree that other characters are just as worthy of it, but they have to start updating things somewhere, so I hope they give similar abilities to other commanders.

Vaktathi
22-01-2012, 10:09
Dual wielding Power Fists "feels unnecessary" to me, but I'm not upset about it.

If you want to go with the solid reason thing... there's no solid reason any army should have many of it's abilities other than it's something interesting and fun for them.

There's no solid reason why many codex have things in them, they just do and it's there now.

Has grand strategy done anything overpowered that's not replicated by dozens of other HQ options? Are there other HQ options that do similiar things and do it better?
yeap.

Great, what's the problem again?
Because for 175pts he's already pretty awesome without that ability. If you look at him compared to say, a C:SM Captain or Wolf Lord in Terminator armor, he gets reserves manipulation that can choose to be +1 *or* -1 (that other armies have to pay 30pts for and it's only +1 not the potential -1), his powerweapon upgraded to Force Weapon status (that can be give him I7 for a 5pt upgrade), 3 different sets of Grenades, psychic defense, 1pt higher BS with access to Heavy Weapons, a strength increasing psychic power, and Preferred Enemy Daemons, and then Grand Strategy on top of all that, for 35pts. Even without Grand Strategy, for all that extra wargear and bonus stuff, most people would agree that's a pretty decent 35pts.



*sigh* then if you really really want abaddon to have it, house rule it and go on... Not my point, I'm not arguing Abaddon should have it. I'm arguing it's unneceessary in the first place.



I've offered some explanations that were asked for It all applies to a huge number of other forces as well, that's why I keep saying it's unnecessary.



yeah, nothing psychic at all involved with that. Eh, forgot about that, point, but it also doesn't say to what extent he can actually control them, how long, etc and we've got plenty of examples of other armies with similar abilities, hell it's the entire theme of the Tyranid army and they don't get anything like that.




His ability basically only works with actual greyknights, which *gasp*! are Psychic. (it affects all but characters, henchmen, and mordraks ghost knights) guess what that leaves in the grey knight codex that's not psychic? nadda. And...your point?



You think a army that's entire list right down to their damn Rhino's is psychic isn't receptive?Just as with a Vox, they may not be listening or able to be contacted. The Warp, psychic powers, and psychic communication and are renowned in the 40k lore for their fickle and unreliable nature. The one consistent thing about the Warp and Warp related powers is that they *aren't* consistent.

burning crome
22-01-2012, 10:49
well the grand masters seem quite tame compared the the rest of the codex. I'm not complaining it's a great book full of interesting stuff there. But there are some really nasty stuff in their for some obsessionally low prices compared to other dex's.

Lord Damocles
22-01-2012, 10:56
I agree with everything Vaktathi has said.


Plus, the FAQ which makes Dreadnoughts score seemed another unecessary boost to an already very good characters.

logan054
22-01-2012, 11:08
well the grand masters seem quite tame compared the the rest of the codex. I'm not complaining it's a great book full of interesting stuff there. But there are some really nasty stuff in their for some obsessionally low prices compared to other dex's.

I know a few people who might disagree with you, I think the use of scout is very effective, be it to bring on some units as outflankers or to get a first turn charge.

burning crome
22-01-2012, 11:27
I'm not arguing that he isn't very good for his points, possible a bit under costed. But then on the other hand you've got coteaz with his veritable list of special rules at a points cost that i don't think can be matched out side the IG codex to get a useful mandatory HQ choice. And on the other end you've got draigo who's grand master on acid for just (ok pushing it a bit) 100pts more.

logan054
22-01-2012, 11:39
Those are certainly good choices but neither has the option for the silly grenades which I think is what unlike other books keep the normal character viable, I generally avoid the special characters (well the rules, I very often use the models with tweaking), thing is I don't think the GK list has anything thats mandatory, you can build the list however you want and still do well.

lantzkev
22-01-2012, 11:44
Everyone seems to be arguing it's op because no one else has something similiar which is just a poor way of arguing this.

The best argument is that for the points it's pretty good, but that's about the only argument against it so far that really says anything other than "it's not fair I don't get it" or "I don't like that it gives x"

Psychic ubermen have advantage for being psychic ubermen, surpise!


Just as with a Vox, they may not be listening or able to be contacted. I'd be suprised if it were easy to ignore or not hear your commander in your head. I'd also be suprised if it was hard not to locate other grey knights psychicly (which has been done in stories I'm sure)


Because for 175pts he's already pretty awesome without that ability. actually without that ability he becomes really just ok, and he's the grandmaster... he doesn't unlock anything as troops and does nothing but be a good warrior... for the amount of points he costs you can grab a inquisitor give it a psychotroke gren, and then add nearly another 5 man squad to your list... it's just not an amazing choice really, and to quib over an ability like this is a bit silly with what special chars that cost the same, or more, or less do... it's unique and hasn't quite been done yet, big deal. it's not earth shattering, and there are few games I've ever seen where I thought "man if I only had that ability this would of been handily swung my way"

logan054
22-01-2012, 11:50
I do love the rule, I think it just adds so much tactical flexibility to list, but I am yet to see a brother captain, perhaps it is undercosted?

NixonAsADaemonPrince
22-01-2012, 11:56
I do love the rule, I think it just adds so much tactical flexibility to list, but I am yet to see a brother captain, perhaps it is undercosted?

I think it's mainly because the Brother Captain is over-costed (As with most non-special characters whose only ability is CC punch). Knock the Brother Captain down to 125pts and things will be looking better.

The Death of Reason
22-01-2012, 12:32
Yup. The grand strategy is just too good, or at least it is compared to the brother captains lack thereof. In this way the GK dex lacks a little internal balance among its characters.

External balance is a moot point in this discussion. What people complain about here are purifier spam, draigostars and Psyflemen priced as devastator squads, the grand strategy are rarely mentioned.

Also whinging about balance in 40K is a waste of breath, every 5th ed. Dex (bar 'nids) have been complained about on whineseer, and balance is just a feverdream in the minds of competitive players. The solution is not to shine about it, but insted either to establish a meta-powerlevel for your group, or just embrace it and buy the latest power toys if winning really matter that much to you :)

Vaktathi
22-01-2012, 12:32
Everyone seems to be arguing it's op because no one else has something similiar which is just a poor way of arguing this. I also pointed out the ability/wargear/special rules differential compared with similar HQ's in other codex's. For his cost, he gets a ridiculous amount of stuff in comparison.



Psychic ubermen have advantage for being psychic ubermen, surpise! Aside from Force Weapons, strength enhancing powers, and reserves manipulation on top of tons of crazy wargear and in-built psychic defense you mean? :p



I'd be suprised if it were easy to ignore or not hear your commander in your head. In the heat of battle, when bullets are flying, creatures made from nightmares and unreality surround you, the sword in your hand is buried to the hilt in some abomination of impossibility, and the world is ending around you? Perhaps not so much.


I'd also be suprised if it was hard not to locate other grey knights psychicly (which has been done in stories I'm sure) If there's significant psychic/warp activity in the area (as there often is in 40k, *especially* on battlefields the Grey Knights would find themselves on) it might be rather difficult.

Either way, none of the abilities explained under Grand Strategy seem in any way related to psychic commands looking over them. I'm not seeing how being "given the honour of spearheading the attack" has anything to do with Grand Masters psychic command (or how that would allow his troops to easier wound the enemy...that ability doesn't make a whole lot of sense in general now that I think about it...)

The Marshel
22-01-2012, 12:48
Everyone seems to be arguing it's op because no one else has something similiar which is just a poor way of arguing this.

I've never actually argued it's op, only that your psychic based justification is heavily flawed. the ability itself is at a vendetta level of op imo, in that it's clearly under costed and a very solid unit, but has/will become less of an issue as other armies adapt around it. it's not game breaking and will benefit from generalize dilution down the track as other armies hopefully get similar bonus, but its a powerful little ability in a powerful codex that really doesn't need it, and it'd still be taken if the GM were 50 points more then the brother captain because it just adds so much more to your list. there really isn't anything particularly special about grand masters that justifies it, so at the end of the day it's yet another powerful toy in the already extremely powerful GK codex.

Vipoid
22-01-2012, 13:39
I agree with Vaktathi that this is an unnecessary rule.

Also, I just don't think it's a good interpretation of the Grand Masters supposed ability to psychicly communitcate with his troops at all times. He already has an ability based on that - it's called Psychic Communion.

Furthermore, I dislike the execution. I think that the ability and the units used should be chosen *before* the battle - as with the rest of the army list. As it stands, it feels almost like list-tailoring. How many other races get to choose scoring units *after* checking that they are indeed playing an objective game. Or, how many get to make a unit scouts, but only after seeing the battlefield and scenario, and confirming that said ability would indeed be useful.

How would you feel if you were against an eldar player who said "I'll just look at the battlefield and the scenario - if they meet with my approval then I'll spend 20pts to let my striking scorpions infiltrate. Otherwise, I'll spend those points elsewhere."

The Death of Reason
22-01-2012, 14:03
Aww, come on, there are plenty of characters doing special stuff that 'mess' with their lists, twinning meltas, reorganizing unit types, adding special rules to certain units. This is nothing special :)

Also people seem to focus on 25 points, but remember that its the total point cost that is relevant, not just the price of an upgrade. And yes, compared to the BC, the GM also has more BS, but this is wasted on a measly stormbolter or an expensive psycannon, so his BS have almost no effect.

Vipoid
22-01-2012, 14:15
Aww, come on, there are plenty of characters doing special stuff that 'mess' with their lists, twinning meltas, reorganizing unit types, adding special rules to certain units. This is nothing special :)

Yes, but they don't get to choose to TL meltas *after* they've seen the battlefield and they know the mission.

The Death of Reason
22-01-2012, 14:28
Yes, but they don't get to choose to TL meltas *after* they've seen the battlefield and they know the mission.

And so what? Different rules for different armies, isn't that the point of the game?

Also, note how the uber builds of the GK aren't really based on 'grand strategy', but rather the ability to spam certain elite units as troops.

The bearded one
22-01-2012, 14:58
Speaking as a Tau player, for whom the only "messing" that one of my HQs does is make half the army run away when killed, and who doesn't like enemies getting closer in general, it is a bit overpowered :P

Also I don't think "ow, other HQs mess with rules tro create broken results!" is a valid defence for another messing with rules that is so absurdly useful, pretty much always, ever ever.

carldooley
22-01-2012, 15:12
erm, how do your opponents seem to use the Grand Strategies? do they always use the same one or do the mix it up? do they give them to the same units, or do they differentiate them out over different games?

personally, I use it for general hijinks - use it so that my vindicaire rerolls ones, or my callidus becomes scoring, or my psyflemen can outflank, or some other entertaining combination. my favorite is taking mordrak by himself so that he benefits from it (he can be a target as long as he doesn't have any ghost knights with him at the start of the game).

The Death of Reason
22-01-2012, 15:42
Speaking as a Tau player, for whom the only "messing" that one of my HQs does is make half the army run away when killed, and who doesn't like enemies getting closer in general, it is a bit overpowered :P

Also I don't think "ow, other HQs mess with rules tro create broken results!" is a valid defence for another messing with rules that is so absurdly useful, pretty much always, ever ever.

As a Tau player myself, I find your comment terribly irrelevant. Our army has been out of date for a long time, so was my Daemonhunters for that sake. But commenting from the POV 'my army sucks, so yours need to suck equally', is a bit of a waste.

Sure GK can be broken, but Grand Strategy has nothing to do with this, Draigo and Crowe has.

logan054
22-01-2012, 23:59
Sure GK can be broken, but Grand Strategy has nothing to do with this, Draigo and Crowe has.

I was told by a Tau player "nothing wrong with the rule, just how I used it"

They are very broken just so you have so many things to avoid, very hard to avoid them all

Lord Gabranth
23-01-2012, 01:25
I think the rule would be better suited on the GM if he was higher costed. I have to agree with Vaktathi that the GM has alot of damn cool toys for very cheap points and on top of it all he gets grand strategy


erm, how do your opponents seem to use the Grand Strategies? do they always use the same one or do the mix it up? do they give them to the same units, or do they differentiate them out over different games?

personally, I use it for general hijinks - use it so that my vindicaire rerolls ones, or my callidus becomes scoring, or my psyflemen can outflank, or some other entertaining combination. my favorite is taking mordrak by himself so that he benefits from it (he can be a target as long as he doesn't have any ghost knights with him at the start of the game).

I believe that grand strategy cant be used on independant characters like the assassins and named characters like Mordrak

carldooley
23-01-2012, 02:27
I believe that grand strategy cant be used on independant characters like the assassins and named characters like Mordrak

assassins aren't ICs, and as such can be targeted by a Grand Strategy. As for Mordrak, he is not an IC and Grand Strategy says it cannot target Mordrak's unit of Ghost Knights - which can be gotten around by not including any in the starting roster.

Gaargod
23-01-2012, 03:27
If you stuck the GM, with all his options (and assuming you changed Grand Strategy to work with it, before anyone points that out), in another codex, he would become a practical auto include. Seriously, why would, for example, a chaos player not want that ability? Oh look, my bersekers are having a scout move today! And they'll be taking along a very hefty combat character who'll boost them to S6 on the charge for giggles.

The very fact he isn't an auto-include says much about the GK book. People take Crowe, to make purifiers troops, or Coteaz, for henchman troops, or inquisitors for henchman in general, or Draigo for paladins, or librarians for their stupidly good psychic powers. You only take a GM if you're deliberately banking on grand strategy to boost your scoring units, in relevant games (and get a free scout move, usually, otherwise).

It's a 'broken' ability, but it's massively outshined.

burning crome
23-01-2012, 04:50
Well that the mayor appeal of the dex since it turn doesn't have any bad units, some shine more than others true which IMO is a shame since it lead to some quite stale cope pasting list building.
Personally I think some of these balancing issues in terms of power compared to other dex stems from them (the designers) wanting to future proof the book. At present there are 16 dex in circulation. At 3mouth intervals that a 4 year cycle without adding in other release taking up those slots or other forces getting the jump before their allotted time. Add in that fluff wise their very few places where you can take grey knights in terms of adding in additional units and the like (there are only a thousand of them after all). So it’s reasonable to assume that they won’t get updated again for at least five to six year. Meaning they tried to design the book to last three editions, whist is possible to argue against codex creep the changing rule sets along why they excel in the current edition but will start to suffer (back to norm) as time go’s on.

KronusDaSneaky
23-01-2012, 09:14
I do not consider the ability broken per say in the same way that the rad grenades every GM carries are. Its a interesting rule that makes him a more viable option against arguably the better HQs such as the librarian. However I am somewhat sad that due to 'Grand Stratergy' there is no reason to ever field a brother captain beyond fluff purposes. Every time I field mine to reflect my companies fluff I am always left feeling that for 25pts more I would have got a lot more to play with.

logan054
23-01-2012, 09:49
If you stuck the GM, with all his options (and assuming you changed Grand Strategy to work with it, before anyone points that out), in another codex, he would become a practical auto include. Seriously, why would, for example, a chaos player not want that ability? Oh look, my bersekers are having a scout move today! And they'll be taking along a very hefty combat character who'll boost them to S6 on the charge for giggles.

I think your forgetting that Draigo is a GM and had this ability ontop of his ability to make Paladins troops so in essence the ability isn't outshined by other options, the standard GM I think makes better use of it as his army is more likely to include units in dedicated transports which can better take advantage of the scout move and will generally have more options to make for making scoring units, I will atleast with this option it does mean that special characters are not auto-include and I also think its no worse than a emperors champion giving the entire army preferred enemy for 50pts.

Lord Gabranth
23-01-2012, 09:58
assassins aren't ICs, and as such can be targeted by a Grand Strategy. As for Mordrak, he is not an IC and Grand Strategy says it cannot target Mordrak's unit of Ghost Knights - which can be gotten around by not including any in the starting roster.

Sorry, I was confusing the unit type entry of (character) with the actual IC rules, thats why i figured they couldnt be targets of GS