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View Full Version : Don't be soft. Have a fight!



Mad Doc Grotsnik
24-04-2006, 15:00
One thing really bugs me in Warhammer.

One thing above a myriad of niggly little things. Just one. One idiotic rule that I feel can ruin an otherwise fun game of Warhammer.

Allocation of attacks.

I hate it. I hate it more than I hate Jimmy Carr. And thats a lot, when you consider I despise him more than I despise Chris Moyles.

I hate it because there is no honour in it at all. For instance, time was that if you wanted to kick my generals teeth in, you had to catch him on his own (well, on his Manticore) or...shock horror...issue a challenge to him in combat. Not any more. Now, not only can you hardnut have a pop at him, but he can bring some friends too!

And I LOATHE it. Whats wrong with a good, old fashioned challenge? Two turbo nutters seeking each other out in the midst of the melee, and duking it out until one is left broken and beaten in a pool of their own blood? Are you scared girly man? Think the skinny, mincing elf might slap you down in front of your mates?

I seriously hope that the ability to allocate attacks against specific models, and not just regiments is dropped for 7th Edition. It's not fun. Not fun at all! And if not, how about some kind of negative Combat Resolution for refused challenges? After all, your general has just shown himself to be a big girls blouse!

Bingo the Fun Monkey
24-04-2006, 15:05
EDIT: I was very drunk. I take back my comments. Sorry for a wasted post.

Tastyfish
24-04-2006, 15:16
I'm confused, surely the good old fashioned challenge is when one character issues a challenge to another one?
Are you saying that you would prefer characters hung around on their own a bit more, trouble comes when there is a vast difference between how good characters are. Given that the general is supposed to represent me, there is no way Sirhael Malenti is going to wander around on his own seeing if there are any chaos lords or blood dragons who are feeling lonely.

If you are worried about a characters mates beating you up, issue a challenge, but then I guess we tend to play that all attacks are allocated to the rank and file troopers unless a challenge is issued (not technically a house rule, just a convention). Its just a lot easier to rack up CR by killing off goons than trying to crack some paranoid druchii's many layers of magical defense (I feel almost naked now without having at least three different saves). However the counter to this is to challenge the axe wielding madmen to take on your invunerable lord and spare the needless slaughter of your men.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
24-04-2006, 15:25
Was it not a major part of Warhammer before? Two mighty heroes seeking each other out on the board, and then having of a bit of a clash of the Titans.

I appreciate that it can make for some very uneven match ups, but then, tough! Perhaps if you'd spent a little more points on punchy characters rather than on those bumbling Nancy boys to fling spells around, my Highborn might have had some sport!

And the trouble is, certain armies *really* benefit from this rule. For example? Bretonnians and Mortal Chaos. Sure. Those Dark Elf Spearmen aren't a horrific threat on their own. Their combat res is, but not the Spears. However. That Noble with the Draich of Dark Power. Killing Blow? S6? At HIS initiative? Eeep! Tell you what, we'll nobble him first, then deal with the rest of them. Quel Surpris, the Noble bites the dust without ever getting a blow in, followed by the rapid collapsing of my flank.

I DO NOT SHELL OUT FOR HEROES JUST SO THEY CAN SUFFER AN IGNOBLE DEATH AT THE HANDS OF A COWARDLY PLAYER. If you want to take him out, you should have to challenge.

Conversely, other armies just don't do well from it all. Ever seen a Gobbo or Skeleton trying to back someone up in a fight? It's comical!

Essentially, bring back challenges as the predominant method of disposing of nasty characters.

I appreciate the old system was quite harsh. I would issue a challenge to a specific model. Usually a squishy wizard. That model and that model only could answer, or refuse, and move to the rear ranks until combat was resolved. So, how to even things out a bit?

I issue a challenge to your unit. If the fightiest character accepts (probably go on Weapon skill) then all is well, and you continue as normal. If you answer with anyone else, you get -1 Combat Resolution for being a big girls blouse and not taking it like a man. Or even, your character cannot count his combat res score. Which is probably a bit much!

TeddyC
24-04-2006, 16:09
MDG MDG!

I agree

The player can say to me.... 'my blood dragon is gonna have you' and ill quite happily have a one on one full on battle to the death....

If you want that sort of battle... play with opponents that will give you it...

My regualr opponent is quite happy to charge his Bret lord out of the unit of knights to meet any general in one on one (while he cries FOR THE LADY)

Im with you... it is massive part of the game... but if those weedy grot and skaven generals wanna hide behind magic and units then let em....

If someone general is a level 4 mage... you wont find me playing them if i have any other option

Killgore
24-04-2006, 16:12
I liked your idea about a negative to the combat modifiers for a Cowardly hero refusing a challenge, I love issuing them, its great fun

Finnblood
24-04-2006, 16:22
For some reason I can't see my grey seer or my bray shaman or my future chaos dwarf sorcerer challenging anything bigger than a lone goblin trooper. Propably not even that...

Razhem
24-04-2006, 16:30
The whole point of that rule is to take out anoying characters with rank and file (MAGIC USERS, because of their crummy stats and that they tend to not have any protection), where I played, we always directed an attack to the unit champion of a unit and if there was a mage in a unit, god knows weīd kick it to death with our infantry (slaping a wizard with 6 spears usually feels nice). I normally donīt bother doing any attacks on a fighty character unless I have a good reason to do it (batle banner that can screw me, very lightly protected, I have killing blow and such) or am in a chalenge, tends to be more useful to take down rank and file. Has for the negative combat resolution for not going into a challenge, I think itīs ********, an elector count can never match up to a Vampire count or a chaos lord, it would only give a senseless advantage to herohammer characters, this is the edition where regiments fight and win battles, not a bunch of battle hungry ****** that forget their dutties has generals and helpers of their troops

Avian
24-04-2006, 16:31
I seriously hope that the ability to allocate attacks against specific models, and not just regiments is dropped for 7th Edition.
Eh? So if you don't have an opposing character or champion, you can't attack a character who is in a unit? :eyebrows:

What is your reasoning behind that wierd idea? Some kind of force field? :rolleyes:

Mouldsta
24-04-2006, 16:41
The implementation of that rule would make wizards in units practically invunerable;

They're immune to normal shooting (as long as there's more than 5 models)

They get a 2+ ward against cannons etc (look out sir)

None of your rank and file would be able to allocate attacks on him

If you challenged then he would simply refuse - having your wizard stood at the back is hardly a great loss is it?


The only way then to remove wizards under that rule would be to run the entire unit down (or for them to be foolish enough to accept the challenge)

joshypoo
24-04-2006, 17:37
It feels really crummy to having your enemies rank and file direct all the attacks they can at your commander and essentially having their troops ignore yours. penalties for doing so come to mind but are way too cumbersome. Instead how about a 40kish rule of hit allocation, Heroes in the front rank can only be allocated attacks in a duel or if every if model in his regiments front rank have already been allocated one.

and gobbos should have no penalty if their heros siss out, they more than likely expected it.

Tastyfish
24-04-2006, 17:45
If you play campaigns I've heard a good rule, but not had a chance to experiment with it yet - basically if you are playing from a large theorectical army list (or using dice to determine how mnay casulties are permanant) you have it that characters can only be permantantly killed by other characters. Anything else and they just come back the next game.

Neknoh
24-04-2006, 17:49
There are ways of ignoring this!

Simply put your Druchii noble at the corner of the unit, he will loose none of his effectiveness, but your opponent will only get two attacks at him at a amximum rather than 3.

Also, this is why I prefer to use Assassins to guard my important units, give them Manbane, Rune of Khaine and Additional Handweapon, reveal the assassin when charged, butcher any models that can attack him and then have his skyhigh I protect the unit if it commes to a longer combat than 1 round.

You can also issue challenges remember? Besides, if you get the chance to make that 200 pts character unusable for a round (which might well result in your opponent not being able to win the combat) for the prise of a humble Druchii Noble, I'd take it.

There are also other ways, simply give him the Crimson Death, he's still as strong, costs less and doesn't have Killingblow... so what?

Dakkagor
24-04-2006, 18:28
Don't you suffer an overkill problem when unit champions answer challenges anyway IE: unit leader gets messily massacred, ever attack over adds to your combat resolution?

GranFarfar
24-04-2006, 18:33
I donīt see why you shoudnīt be albe to alocate attacks on characters. Really, I donīt.
This would make it impossible to kill characters in units(something which is already quite hard), unless you are matching him with one of your own.
Why make characters better, that is really not what they need.

And really, is a player a coward if he chooses to kill your character in any other way than in a challange?

There should be some risk in putting a character in a close combat, even if it isnīt another god of war close at hand, shouldnīt it?

And about the cons of refusing a challange, isnīt not having a fighter hero fighting punishment enough?

Razhem
24-04-2006, 19:05