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View Full Version : Thoughts on the new VC battalion.



pluch87
11-02-2012, 02:27
Anyone else find the contents of the new battalion disappointing?

IMHO, if the box had 20 zombies and the new black knight's kit instead of the 20 crypt ghouls and 10 dire wolves, GW would be able to sell A LOT more boxes.

I expect to see a veritable flood of ebay listings for half of the contents in this box...

Drasanil
11-02-2012, 04:00
Even the dire wolves are useful considering you can up their numbers IIRC. The corpse cart is what seems to kind of be wasted. There's only so many you would need, even in a large army, making the battalion of dubious value if you're looking to bulk up your army.

Lebowski
11-02-2012, 04:13
Yes, the waste is the ole corpse cart

Jind_Singh
11-02-2012, 08:03
60 bucks of skeles, 60 bucks of Ghouls, 30 bucks of dogs, then 30 bucks of cart - $189 bones right there - $40 savings.

For me - I save 10 bucks a go as the ghouls/skeles/dogs can grow and grow in size, no limit - so save myself 10 bucks with a free cart

As a new vamp player 2 boxes is ok - 2 carts is fine in any army - 3 would be limit - 4 for the players who don't want to magnetize between balefire and other option.

smart marketing move by them (gw) as every man and his dog wants zombies now so will pay for them, and black knights also.

My core army is ONG and this box kicks their butt any day of the week - that box is redundant almost right away as you don't need 2nd unit of spiders and a lot of the time you don't even need boar boyz!!!

Sure the VC box won't be to everyones tastes, and sure they could have included other units to help us save money - but same will be said for pretty much all army boxes - perhaps apart from ogres which can be purchased all day long and never gets old!

I would rank them:

Ogres/Beastmen/Skaven (no box limit)
Brets/Empire/dark elves/Tomb Kings (4 box limit)
Daemons/Warriors of Chaos (2.5 box limit)
Dwarf/high elves/lizardmen/VAMPIRE COUNTS (2 box limit)
Wood Elves (1.5 box limit)
Orcs & Goblins (1 box limit)

As a collector of armies 1st and foremost I look at the value of boxes in a strict fashion - I want to end up with at least 3 to 3.5k of an army when I collect it - so I can play various styles. Some armies, like Empire and ONG lend to higher collection points due to the diversity of units. So I need to get decent repeats of units from the army box deal - so each army I listed shows how many times I could buy the battalion before I couldn't! So poor ONG rate the worst (which is a shame as I now have 14k and can't really expand them in a meaningful way), with the top being beastmen, ogres, and skaven - as you could quite happily buy them forever more!

RugbySkin
11-02-2012, 14:29
Someone might have to redo some of their math a tad as the Skellies are 25 a box and so are the ghouls. But I think their idea was being able to field an army in the box, and you can. I think they woulda been smarter putting some zombies in there instead but whatcha gonna do? As it is now I won't be getting one anytime soon. I have too many ghouls and not enough Zombies and Skellies as it is.

redfury
11-02-2012, 19:00
Eh. Save 35$. I'm willing to buy one. I've been meaning to buy a new cart,dire wolves in the new edition, make a unit of skeletons with hand weapons(all of mine have spears) and I could use more ghouls. So yeah I'll be buying one. It's not much different than the old one, I think GW is at least considering new zombies, so putting the current ones in the battalion would complicate things. Dire wolves are real core now so they threw them in to fill out the box.

Jind_Singh
11-02-2012, 19:33
Someone might have to redo some of their math a tad as the Skellies are 25 a box and so are the ghouls.

You can be a few things in life - one is 'Helpful', so if someone has made an honest mistake you can put in the correct values for their post -so in this case 25 skeletons means an additional $15 of value, the 5 Ghouls another $15 of value - so you save another $30 on top of what was stated in the post.

Another thing in life you can be is also wrong:

"This set contains 20 Skeleton Warriors (which can be equipped with spears and shields or hand weapons and shields, and includes the option for a command group); 20 Crypt Ghouls; 10 Dire Wolves, and a Corpse Cart that can be ridden by a Necromancer."


Not helpful AND wrong - what a start to your weekend hey!!!! :D

Grimdesign
11-02-2012, 20:12
I think if GW really wanted to move boxes, they could go the Necron route and place a unit in it that isnt sold by itself (Scarabs)
so something like:

20 core
20 core
10 core/special
exclusive model

in VC's case I am thinking:

20 skeletons
20 Zombies
10 wolves
1 black coach (since this is academic at best, we can assume it isn't finecast)


For those not needing core, you get a special unit and those building from scratch get everything they could need.


the only other option would be to include a unit that is usefull in numbers, like the black knights:

20 skeletons
20 Zombies
10 wolves
5 black knights/hexwraiths

redfury
11-02-2012, 21:00
I can't see them putting a duel kit in a battalion, they're aimed at new players and duel kits can be confusing for new players. Grave guard would be a good idea though.

Grimdesign
11-02-2012, 23:59
I can't see them putting a duel kit in a battalion, they're aimed at new players and duel kits can be confusing for new players. Grave guard would be a good idea though.

I am not so sure, pulling from the New Necron battleforce (yeah its 40k but same company) has 2 duel kits inside.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/01/necron-battleforce-pic-and-contents.html

redfury
12-02-2012, 00:16
Oh. I was unaware of that. I didn't think gw would do that. I was hoping for an army box like the ones for skaven and high elves they had around Christmas. I would also like to see more sets like island for different armies. Like vampires vs. empire.

Ratbeast
12-02-2012, 00:18
I wont be needing most the stuff in the box, if they had zombies or black knights, i would consider it

lbecks
12-02-2012, 00:18
You can be a few things in life - one is 'Helpful', so if someone has made an honest mistake you can put in the correct values for their post -so in this case 25 skeletons means an additional $15 of value, the 5 Ghouls another $15 of value - so you save another $30 on top of what was stated in the post.

Another thing in life you can be is also wrong:

"This set contains 20 Skeleton Warriors (which can be equipped with spears and shields or hand weapons and shields, and includes the option for a command group); 20 Crypt Ghouls; 10 Dire Wolves, and a Corpse Cart that can be ridden by a Necromancer."


Not helpful AND wrong - what a start to your weekend hey!!!! :D

You guys are talking about different currencies. It's 25 a box in US dollars.

The total for all things separately in US dollars is 150.25 and the battalion is 115. It's still a good deal even if you like wolves, skeletons, and ghouls but don't like the corpse cart.

Grimdesign
12-02-2012, 00:37
Oh. I was unaware of that. I didn't think gw would do that. I was hoping for an army box like the ones for skaven and high elves they had around Christmas. I would also like to see more sets like island for different armies. Like vampires vs. empire.

that would be fantastic

I could settle for army boxes in conjunction with battalion boxes, the introduction sets could be made in a limited format for 6 month cycles, I am a sucker for those sets.

Saxtomancer
12-02-2012, 09:16
Yeah, the new battalion kinda sucks, would have been better with unit of hexes or black knights. (heck, almoust anything BUT the corpse cart).

Jind_Singh
12-02-2012, 21:24
I think it's because we're jaded with the Corpse cart as it's been there since the old battlian - had they included even Black Knights old Vampire collectors would want to buy the box as they get more skeletons and Ghouls, add direwolves - and get new Knights.

But I can see why they don't give away easy access to Black Knights - too many easy kit bashing options to make your own Grave Gaurd

vinush
12-02-2012, 22:12
I'll be honest, I'd not buy the battalion at all. I hate the look of the Ghouls so would never use them. I also already own a corpse cart, so any additional carts are unnecessary for me.

THE \/ince

The bearded one
13-02-2012, 02:24
I would rank them:
..
Dwarf/high elves/lizardmen/VAMPIRE COUNTS (2 box limit)
..

As a collector of armies 1st and foremost I look at the value of boxes in a strict fashion - I want to end up with at least 3 to 3.5k of an army when I collect it - so I can play various styles. Some armies, like Empire and ONG lend to higher collection points due to the diversity of units. So I need to get decent repeats of units from the army box deal - so each army I listed shows how many times I could buy the battalion before I couldn't! So poor ONG rate the worst (which is a shame as I now have 14k and can't really expand them in a meaningful way), with the top being beastmen, ogres, and skaven - as you could quite happily buy them forever more!

I'd rank dwarfs higher than that, everything in that box is incredibly useful and basically all the contents are precisely the units you're going to want several of. Due to the way the dwarf infantry plastics are constructed the bitz between them are virtually interchangeable, essentially giving you 48 bodies to models as you see fit as either warriors (gws/shields), longbeards (gws/shields), quarrelers (gws/shields), thunderers or rangers. And everybody likes an extra cannon or organ gun, or both. If I were to build a dwarf army all over, 3+ batallionboxes would probably be the way to start.

Liber
13-02-2012, 02:35
I'd rank dwarfs higher than that, everything in that box is incredibly useful and basically all the contents are precisely the units you're going to want several of. Due to the way the dwarf infantry plastics are constructed the bitz between them are virtually interchangeable, essentially giving you 48 bodies to models as you see fit as either warriors (gws/shields), longbeards (gws/shields), quarrelers (gws/shields), thunderers or rangers. And everybody likes an extra cannon or organ gun, or both. If I were to build a dwarf army all over, 3+ batallionboxes would probably be the way to start.


But that wasn't his point.

His point was that you would only ever (well at least for 9/10 players) want to buy two of them.

I mean 3 battalions would give you like 2 cannons and an organ gun (the vast majority of dwarf armies only take 1 cannon and/or 1 organ gun) and...*96* dwarf warriors...which again is going to be complete overkill for the vast majority of dwarf players.

Also remember that most players (myself included) don't want to use the basic dwarf infantry as longbeards like GW suggests we do.

Trains_Get_Robbed
13-02-2012, 05:04
How is this box bad? t gives you the only core choices worth fielding in a competitive meta-game, and nets you a savings. . . ? I'm really missing something here.

Grimdesign
13-02-2012, 06:47
How is this box bad? t gives you the only core choices worth fielding in a competitive meta-game, and nets you a savings. . . ? I'm really missing something here.

Its not that the box is bad, its that there are better boxes in which its being compared to. To put it succinctly, people wish it was better and coming from that disappointment, judge accordingly.

Drasanil
13-02-2012, 06:58
How is this box bad? t gives you the only core choices worth fielding in a competitive meta-game, and nets you a savings. . . ? I'm really missing something here.

I thought all the VC players were complaining that Ghouls were overpriced now and the corpse cart seems a bit too gimmicky for my liking; it can't march and the only augment spell you'd target it with would be IoN.

Ratbeast
13-02-2012, 07:55
How is this box bad? t gives you the only core choices worth fielding in a competitive meta-game, and nets you a savings. . . ? I'm really missing something here.

Zombies are the best core, and this set gives me none

popisdead
14-02-2012, 23:24
Hmmm, as someone who doesn't have a VC army but seeing what people are taking it looks like a great start.

Everyone takes a Cart, Skellies, Ghouls and I would take those dogs as they are useful for dealing with things I don't want to deal with right away (hello speed bump/ fanatic withdrawal tool).

Yes I know you can raise a whole new unit, but if I could toss away a unit and buffer a mainline unit I will.

redfury
14-02-2012, 23:37
I thought all the VC players were complaining that Ghouls were overpriced now and the corpse cart seems a bit too gimmicky for my liking; it can't march and the only augment spell you'd target it with would be IoN.

Just about every turn you'll be casting ION anyways and with undead you have to keep everyone close together anyways and since IoN is area of effect now you get vigour mortis often

lordfeint
15-02-2012, 05:03
I'd rank dwarfs higher than that, everything in that box is incredibly useful and basically all the contents are precisely the units you're going to want several of. Due to the way the dwarf infantry plastics are constructed the bitz between them are virtually interchangeable, essentially giving you 48 bodies to models as you see fit as either warriors (gws/shields), longbeards (gws/shields), quarrelers (gws/shields), thunderers or rangers. And everybody likes an extra cannon or organ gun, or both. If I were to build a dwarf army all over, 3+ batallionboxes would probably be the way to start.

I agree.
I've got 5 said Battalion boxes under my belt. (although one was a crappy box w/24 warriors.)
I've got so many miles outta those little guys. It got to a point where if I needed another 20 dwarfs, I'd just go buy a battalion.
Having SO many bodies to pick from I got a bunch of Longbeards, Rangers (with and without X-Bows), thunderers to make 3 units of up to 16, a couple dozen quarrellers w/ GWs, and more warriors than I know what to do with.

I like the metal Longbeards, but except for the command group, I couldn't grasp the concept of spending so much money on more metal figs when every other special choice in the line (up til AoWs awesome slayers) is also metal. Besides, unlike the poor plastic miners, the warriors and thunderers aren't that bad. (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the little cart and pony and the extras in the miner kit, but I'll use my old 2003 metal miners every day.)

As for the Cannons and Organ Guns. I've got 3 Cannons and 2 OGs built, and against the Skaven and WoC opponents I play, I usually take 2 Cannons and an OG, sometimes 2 OGs in big games. I have 3 more unbuilt and 2 used as objectives/base decor.

Now if they'd come out with plastic LBs, slayers, hammerers and IBs, I'd be more inclined to agree that the battalion MIGHT be up for some rework, but I've gotten my moneys worth.
(again, except for the box w/ 24 warriors... for the same price as 32 no less.)

theJ
15-02-2012, 07:33
As a player only now getting into VCs, the battalion seems pretty darn kickass to me, tbh. I can make a solid 500pt army with extra bits straight off the bat, and if I just add another special and a rare, I'm already sitting at a thousand points (which is what we usually play around here).

Both the Ghouls and Skeletons seem to be solid core choices, so I'm thankful for that.
A Corpse Cart has its uses. Personally I'll be converting the rider into a footsie necromancer, giving me a general as well.
I had originally intended to use slightly converted chaos hounds in place of dire wolves, since I don't quite like their style, but I don't dislike it enough to hate on what is a really damn kickass battalion.

To finish it up, the savings seem better than most other battalions (1.5 kits saved, rather than the usual 1). In short, I love it, and hope they'll keep giving us deals this good.

Harwammer
15-02-2012, 11:28
Adding to the subject of the Dwarf Battalion: I've heard of a few people converting their excess cannon/OG kits into mortars to use as count-as runed-up grudge throwers.

Daniel36
15-02-2012, 11:31
You can easily use the Corspe Cart for some really cool scenery pieces or objective markers. It seems an okay set to me.

Harwammer
15-02-2012, 11:52
Indeed. You can make a few zombies and a necromancer out of it too, even if you don't want to use the actual chassis of the model.

vinush
15-02-2012, 11:55
Or you could sell the excess corpse carts on eBay and make a little money on it. Since you save about 1 1/2 kits, even if you get a fiver for the cart you're still better off than if you bought the dogs, skeletons and ghouls separately.

Harwammer
15-02-2012, 12:07
True, vinush!

Also, I've heard people dissing the Dire Wolves... they look a lot like zombie dogs to me! Has anyone used them for 'a boy and his dog' unit fillers? I know chaos hounds are popular for making dioramas/fillers for marauder/gor units so why not give dire wolves the same treatment?

redfury
16-02-2012, 00:13
It basically contains a character. I take it that's everyone's problem? So its not bad or good. It's aimed at new players not vets. Oh well, you can kit bash a corpse cart to make a lot of things, two corpse carts could probably make a mortis engine quite easily.

LotusCorgi
16-02-2012, 00:24
would be nice to have the zombies...but I might pick one up to make a necromancer-mountable cart as I already have one with a corpsemaster.