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Hrogoff the Destructor
13-02-2012, 01:14
All that talk about a new Empire book in the rumours section has reignited my interest in Fantasy. So, for an army that basically has everything, what do you want to see for the Empire?

-New war altar model
-New knight models
-A techno monolith thing of some sort. Those Empire guys are always building something wierd and highly destructive.
-Witch hunter rules and witch hunter unit.
-White Wolf rules.
-Teutegon guard, which would probably just be a slight variation of great swords. +1 strength perhaps but also some minuses (heavy armor instead of full plate maybe?). Or they could just make great swords str. 4 base and call it good.
-Valten! I loved how he kicked so much butt it inspired the crappy Empire troops nearby in combat. Yeah, I know it won't happen, but this is a wishlist dammit! Plus, it's still one of the most popular collector's models right? Why not give him rules?
-Rules for Marius Leitdorf. Given that he's got a fancy model with no rules, this seems like an obvious choice for something that needs to happen.
-Option for a Warrior priest to get full plate. Also an ability to join flagellants.

Chiron
13-02-2012, 07:56
- Focus on core troops and standard humans
- No big monsters/units of monster cavalry
- Greatswords can take a magic banner
- cheaper missile troops


-Witch hunter rules and witch hunter unit.
I heard you like hunting witches so now we put witch hunters in your witch hunters while you hunt!

calnen
13-02-2012, 08:29
- Get rid of the universal 'tournament army = halberds with warrior priests' rule. Possibly make spearmen a bit better (say, half a point cheaper, or come with a shield). Warrior Priests probably shouldn't generate DD any more, but I do like the idea of some kind of 'veteran sergeant' that gives the unit a minor buff. (+1 WS or something, instead of Hatred. Hatred's not very Empire-ey).
- Greatswords aren't *quite* good enough. Stubborn is great, but even with a 4+ save bucketloads of them die before they strike. Maybe make them S4 like Inner Circle? As above, they should be able to take a banner.
- As an Empire player, I'd like to keep the Stank the way it is ... but it's not going to happen. It's too extreme at the moment - to some armies it's basically indestructable. Maybe reduce armour to 4+ so bowfire can hurt it better, but change the steam points rules so it can function after taking more damage. (eg 1-2 wounds, reduce movement, 3-4 wounds, cannon breaks etc). At the moment it's out of the game after 4 wounds, which is weird.
- Crossbowmen need to be slightly cheaper I think.
- Archers need to be quite a bit cheaper. (6 points?) I'd like to take them, but they're so inferior it's hard to justify at the moment.

Daniel36
13-02-2012, 08:51
Uhm... The entire premise of a wishlist thread is to hope against hope that GW will take notice and put stuff in the new book... As the book is due real soon, wishlisting is kind of... too late.

static grass
13-02-2012, 10:21
I think the empire covers alot of bases quite well. I think we do lack in the elites department. Greatswords and inner circle are very nice but they don't necessarily have a very high fear factor. I am looking forward to the Demi griffin knights to see what they bring to the army list.

New rules for the WP's mostly used for hate at the moment which is a great force multiplier but I would to see their potential range of abilities expanded.

Witch Hunters. I see these as one shot unit upgrades. Assassinating Heroes or tricked out unit champs.

Generals of the Empire. We need more of a reason to take these guys. Banners for great swords is an old mechanic that GW used to think was the same as synergy. I would probably make the detachment rule more flexible ie all state troops can act as detachments for each other. But make the rule a special rule enabled when selecting the general.

vinush
04-03-2012, 13:07
I think an update to the detachment rules, either something like for every 2 models in a state troops unit you get 1 model in a detachment unit for free, so if you take a unit of 30 halberdiers, you get 15 models to make detachments with for that unit. An alternative would be to allow all models with the state troops to use the supporting charge and supporting fire rules if they're within 3" of another unit of state troops (essentially making all state troops unit parents and detachments).

I would like to see GotE get an upgrade to Elector Count complete with Runefang for a mundane points increase rather than having to spend 100 Points on a Magic item that is wasted on the mediocre stats of the GotE.

I'd like to see Captains get upgrades like VC powers or Chaos Marks to represent a dedication to a specific god, or particular role in the army, such as Witch Hunters...

Alternatively, add in Witch Hunter characters. This is something I've always found missing from the Empire army, and would love to have them.

THE \/ince

DivineVisitor
04-03-2012, 16:12
New War Altar
Hoping a new model looks kick ass, i like my converted one and all but an official one is necessary.

Demi-Griff Knights!
I want a true Elite human unit, these guys sound like just the ticket.

God Specific Priests
More variation on the buffs that could be supplied would be awesome.

Elector Counts
With FREE Runefang!

General/Captain Unit buffs
Something like the Imperial Guard rules.

Lord Solar Plexus
04-03-2012, 16:37
First and foremost, I want an army. That means officers leading and directing regiments. Something like the Imperial Guard's order system would be absolutely brilliant but I'll settle for detachments counting towards core (or special).

With this in mind, a more useful GotE and the ability to take a magic standard on GS and/or Swordsmen.

Cheaper Knights, cheaper State Troops, cheaper GS.

Slightly better or slightly cheaper IC knights. WS 5, Ld 9, I 4, 2 A, doesn't matter, either one would come in handy and could be justified.

Different Priests sound nice.

Demi-Griffon Knights. I love the IG's Ogryns, so something that fills a similar role would be awesome.

Damocles8
04-03-2012, 17:31
I'd like to see GS get WS5...

Not-not-kenny
04-03-2012, 18:11
Am I the Only one who really doesn't want the war altar to remain? At least not as long as it's still bloody stupid, especially fluff-wise.

underscore
04-03-2012, 21:52
I dunno, I was pondering taking up an Empire army recently with the concept of making a rag-tag crusader army (so Priests, Knights, hate-driven yokels accompanying dishevelled soldiers etc). It certainly seemed like a direction The Empire could go in as an army and a war alter would certainly support that.

pippin_nl
04-03-2012, 21:53
Well here it goes:

Steamtank: T6 4+ armour save, 4+ ward save, can always use 2 steam points safely, always makes required tests
War Altar: different versions, new spell list
Detachments: Count as Core, GotE allows you to add your detachments after deployment
Easy access to cheap armour saves (full plate, barded warhorses, maybe a big shield that gives you -1A)
Cheaper BS based shooting: base state trooper +2 points, +8 points for a mounted one
WP/AL: different versions with abilities like hatred, frenzy etc..., some bonus to dispel so wizards are not required
War machines: Dwarven machines should be slightly better
Teutogens: Stats as GS with +1 AS for the cloak, +2 versus ranged attacks, should be expensive
Captains: Unit joined may take a magical banner
GotE: Any unit may take a magical banner
Engineers: Much cheaper with an upgrade option to make them babysit war machines

vinush
05-03-2012, 05:57
Ooh, how about engineer as an upgrade to warmachines? That way they would come out of special/rare points not characters.

boli
05-03-2012, 10:42
Empire is weird have a strange selection of units with no real cohesion:

- hand-gunners (you're looking at the English civil war era)
- Cannon/Mortars (around the turn of the 18th century)
- Knightly orders (14-15th century)
- Pistoleers (end of the 18th century)
- Archers (13th Century)
- Steam Tank and Mechanical horses (19th Century easily if you're going for pseudo Victorian)
- Spear/sword men – you're looking at classical formation (cira 1AD)

If everyone hadn't already bought thousands of the statetroops I would say it might be worth to reduce the number/type of units pushing it closer towards the Napoleonic era rather than the classical/medievil one; but it might be an idea to replace spearmen with pikemen (no shield, but 5+ parry save vs melee only and removed strength bonus from charging cavalary as it is hard to close).

And Handgunners are able to fire in 3 ranks not 2 (there is a very famous painting of the Battle of Culloden which shows the redcoats fighting in 3 ranks; fighting in more ranks was common up to napoleon as it allowed rotating fire between ranks as others reloaded.)

Above all else the empire should focus on the common-man, flexible tactics and sheer determination. In the Warhammer world of myths and legends you'll want to think that the common solider should be well drilled and able to defeat the monsters and terrifying beasts thrown at the enemy.

Orcs glory in the combat... skaven are cowards but vicious when cornered, chaos delight in blood-letting elves and dwarves fight methodically and with honor. Bretonina knights fight for glory. The Empire fight for survival and this should be represented in the common man on the field as the only way they can defeat beings which are stronger, faster, tougher and wiser than them is to work together as a well drilled machine.

theJ
06-03-2012, 17:34
Don't play Empire myself, but I'd like to see 'em pushed slightly forwards in time - about napoleonic - to distance them from the Brets. This would mean pikes in place of spears, swapping the knights for either a 'hussar' or 'lancer' style unit (basically the same, but disciplined, cheapish and lacking barding) and option to swap bows for some sort of long rifle (not the hochland, that would be too OP) on the skirmishers.

Speaking of distancing from Brets - let the Brets be the magic race, and give them the monstrous stuff (as it would kinda fit there, whereas it wouldn't fit into an 17th/18th century army, like, at all).

Pitting that against a horde of orcs would be pretty darn epic :D

Petey
06-03-2012, 17:44
Empire is weird have a strange selection of units with no real cohesion:

- hand-gunners (you're looking at the English civil war era)
- Cannon/Mortars (around the turn of the 18th century)
- Knightly orders (14-15th century)
- Pistoleers (end of the 18th century)
- Archers (13th Century)
- Steam Tank and Mechanical horses (19th Century easily if you're going for pseudo Victorian)
- Spear/sword men – you're looking at classical formation (cira 1AD)

1 or the renessaince. late period
2 or you know 14th century / late crusades
3 Knightly orders started in the first crusade and existed until Teutonic Knights were finally crushed as a world power
4 True
5 Archers have existed in armies as late as the industrial revolution
6 Stank and Mech horses are magic. They exist because we choose to let them exist like we let wizard exist
6 This formation existed until the end of the renaissance, in particular Spanish swordsmen with bucklers were Machiavelli's answer to the pikeline

I think you should look at the Empire army as an amalgome of Poland, Lithuania and the Teutonic Knights states rolled into one, with sorcery added, it makes more sense that way



If everyone hadn't already bought thousands of the statetroops I would say it might be worth to reduce the number/type of units pushing it closer towards the Napoleonic era rather than the classical/medievil one; but it might be an idea to replace spearmen with pikemen (no shield, but 5+ parry save vs melee only and removed strength bonus from charging cavalary as it is hard to close).

I'm down with this.


And Handgunners are able to fire in 3 ranks not 2 (there is a very famous painting of the Battle of Culloden which shows the redcoats fighting in 3 ranks; fighting in more ranks was common up to napoleon as it allowed rotating fire between ranks as others reloaded.)

I don't like it


Above all else the empire should focus on the common-man, flexible tactics and sheer determination. In the Warhammer world of myths and legends you'll want to think that the common solider should be well drilled and able to defeat the monsters and terrifying beasts thrown at the enemy.

I like it.


Orcs glory in the combat... skaven are cowards but vicious when cornered, chaos delight in blood-letting elves and dwarves fight methodically and with honor. Bretonina knights fight for glory. The Empire fight for survival and this should be represented in the common man on the field as the only way they can defeat beings which are stronger, faster, tougher and wiser than them is to work together as a well drilled machine.

I also like it.

The bearded one
06-03-2012, 18:12
Empire is weird have a strange selection of units with no real cohesion:

- hand-gunners (you're looking at the English civil war era)
- Cannon/Mortars (around the turn of the 18th century)
- Knightly orders (14-15th century)
- Pistoleers (end of the 18th century)
- Archers (13th Century)
- Steam Tank and Mechanical horses (19th Century easily if you're going for pseudo Victorian)
- Spear/sword men you're looking at classical formation (cira 1AD)

I would rather place empire as a late-medieval to rennaisance warhammer version of the holy roman empire and other central european states, with some steampunk elements thrown in. Swordmen, spearmen and halbediers are common enough throughout the entire middle ages (though large formations of pikemen started being used from the end of the middle ages onwards), archers were used plenty all the time and certainly still around the 14th century (such as during the battle of Crecy). Artillery started coming into common use around this period. Pistoliers evolved in this time as well. 14th century IIRC. In germany they wore black armour and were called zwarchritters or something to that effect. The holy roman empire even had men in plate armour wielding greatswords ('zweihanders' ) in the late middle ages.

boli
06-03-2012, 20:33
1 or the renessaince. late period
2 or you know 14th century / late crusades
3 Knightly orders started in the first crusade and existed until Teutonic Knights were finally crushed as a world power
4 True
5 Archers have existed in armies as late as the industrial revolution
6 Stank and Mech horses are magic. They exist because we choose to let them exist like we let wizard exist
6 This formation existed until the end of the renaissance, in particular Spanish swordsmen with bucklers were Machiavelli's answer to the pikeline

2. I mentioned ~ 1650-1700 b/c that was when field guns started to come into fore. previous cannons in the 14th century and crusaders were only really used as siege weapons and used stone balls. The Cannon/Mortor/Hellblaster used as field guns were brought in later.

3. It was more the Knight's Order in Full plate; around the hundred year War (which also showed their weaknesses) Bretonnia is more the crusader era knights but yes, knightly orders date back to the norman conquest and before.

6. It is an old formation, true.. but swordsmen or men-at-arms were phasing aout as the power of gunpowder and the associated units (grenadiers etc) grew. Whist they could be effective ( e.g. Highland Charge) in general most armies were phasing them out.

@beardedone I was just commenting that the army seems an amalgamation of many periods so can be hard to pin down.

RanaldLoec
06-03-2012, 22:23
Demigryph knighs sound like the gayest things ever TBH i dont need some useless point sink unit that will just fail at its job.
Make the Stank immune to magic with no Strenght value. There its Balanced and good. Engineers as upgrades o machines and Volley guns to work like they did in 6th edition.
Witch hunters sound amazing and would be nice.
I want Provincial Trais like Handgunners from Nuln Being like 5 points and firing in 3 ranks right off the bat. Also Better special units and Fullisade for the pistoliers another great 6th Edition rule.
Furher more we are the best army to keep ALL our magic items because our magic items actually serve an important purpose in or army and TBH the common magic items ar really Stupid

I swear to god if we have those peice of crap Demigryph knights i will punch a baby because they sound like theworst addition to an already ****** edition of WFB.
thanks for overpriced cav when infantry is the focus of the edition lik giving a cancer patient Herpes in hopes it will sop he cancer

And leave my warrior priests Alone they are PERFECT FOR THE ARMY

It's only a game calm down, I've been playing empire since 1992 4th edition. This will be my 4th Empire Army book and I'm a major hard core nerdy empire fan boy and I think 8th edition returns Warhammer to a golden era of gaming.

"Gayest thing" let's avoid using a description of sexuality as a negative phrase. I'm not gay as my wife will confirm but I still find it a bit much when where talking about toy soldiers.

As for the POTENTIAL edition of monstrous cavalry I Will reserve my judgment until I read the book.

Dispel dice spam cripples the magic phase utterly the warrior priests NEED TO CHANGE.

Leave your anger at the door of the gaming club wargaming really shouldn't create such anger in any one.

It's just a hobby.

The Low King
06-03-2012, 23:42
Demigryph knighs sound like the gayest things ever TBH i dont need some useless point sink unit that will just fail at its job.
Make the Stank immune to magic with no Strenght value. There its Balanced and good. Engineers as upgrades o machines and Volley guns to work like they did in 6th edition.
Witch hunters sound amazing and would be nice.
I want Provincial Trais like Handgunners from Nuln Being like 5 points and firing in 3 ranks right off the bat. Also Better special units and Fullisade for the pistoliers another great 6th Edition rule.
Furher more we are the best army to keep ALL our magic items because our magic items actually serve an important purpose in or army and TBH the common magic items ar really Stupid

I swear to god if we have those peice of crap Demigryph knights i will punch a baby because they sound like theworst addition to an already ****** edition of WFB.
thanks for overpriced cav when infantry is the focus of the edition lik giving a cancer patient Herpes in hopes it will sop he cancer

And leave my warrior priests Alone they are PERFECT FOR THE ARMY


Wow......anger.....over...nothing

Also, you might need a few nerfs there....just buffing everything would be a bit good


That said, i dont think the warriors priests 'NEED TO CHANGE' as others say

Jind_Singh
07-03-2012, 06:49
I'm just hoping:

War Alter
Halflings
New priests that follow other Gods that the Empire worship
New Knight kit (even if it's just Inner Circle)
New character kit - mounted Wizards would be nice
Return of those Teguton (no idea of spelling) Guard, but as plastic I hope!

Rules wise

Nerf Warrior Priests dispel bonus and make their prayers a better system to play
Change the detachment ruling slightly so I can learn new rules
Points adjustments
Small blast for the Mortar - large is too powerful in this edition - or at least double it's points value or something
Increase cost for Great Cannons - those be deadly - make them 125pts or something
New army wide rule to represent the well oiled fighting machine that the Empire is
Different options for units dependent on what General you take:

General - 1 State Troop as core
Arch Lector - 1 flagellant as core
Grand Master - 1 Inner Circle as core

Wesser
07-03-2012, 09:23
Am I the Only one who really doesn't want the war altar to remain? At least not as long as it's still bloody stupid, especially fluff-wise.

Thanks sir.

At the moment it is a bloody Goofy thing with a slew of special rules that just makes your opponents scratch their heads.

I don't feel its justified rules-wise atm. Coven throne is probably a hint of how to tackle it.

As for fluff.... War altar is the only entry apart from the mechanical horse that havent appeared in any of the short stories, novels and other background I've read, but okay there's a lot I havent read.

If it aint good enough for the background it bloody aint good enough for the tabletop either. Away with it!

The bearded one
07-03-2012, 09:47
isn't it in storm of chaos background? Volkmar and his flaggelant army?

Wesser
07-03-2012, 10:06
isn't it in storm of chaos background? Volkmar and his flaggelant army?

Didnt happen remember?

The bearded one
07-03-2012, 11:10
If I recall correctly it's mentioned in a sidestory in the O&G book (A warlord on wyvern smashes it )

TheDungen
14-03-2012, 18:34
Gunpowder may have arrived in the 15th century but it took until the invention of rifling to make it more effective than the crossbow. The Handcannon, which was the early guns, where more used for the effect their sound had on enemy morale than for their true usefullness. And as for technology please take geography into account. Sure brittain might have stopped using knights after the hundred years war ( i wouldnt know anything about that brittish history isnt my best subject) but it was used way longer in other parts of europe. In fact the last real knightly order (to hold territory) was the knights of st. John who were displaced from matla by napoleon. Now i dont think they fielded shock units of heavy cavalery at that point but i would guess the officers still fought in atleast semi plate.


As for wishlisting, i wish for no demigryphs i like the empire as an army of men, downtrodden but determined men who knows that nothign aopart their courage and their handgun is keeping the realm of chaos at bay. An army where you can see yourself in each man fighting. True the empire had wizards, but the people of that time thought they did to. Sure they have warrior priest but the people of that time thought god would really interfere on the battlefield. Ok they have gryphons but thats just the lord choices the wealthiest and most influencial people. The comman man of the empire is standing there with his spear or halberd shaking in his hands hoping that the detachment of crossbowmen or handgunenrs he's covering will kill the enemy before they get to him.

Also on a non realted note i'd like the amber, jade and grey wizard. Simply so i cna sue those sets to convert high elf mages.