PDA

View Full Version : Is this a power gaming list and your thoughts on the game that went with it.



Draconis
18-02-2012, 19:35
Heres the list. 2k Nids.

Tyrant. LW and BS. Paroxysm and leech with wings and hive commander.
1 carni. 2x Scytal in bare Pod.
20 Genestealers with Toxin and Scytal in bare Pod
20 Ubergaunts in bare Pod
16 Termagants with devourer in bare pod
6 Warriors 2x Boneswords in bare pod
1 Deathleaper
1 Trygon Prime

I was paired with an ork player and I faced a SW player while he played against a BT player. I did win against the SW's and swung around to the BT player, who then killed the carni with a LR crusader in one round of shooting, dinged my tyrant twice with a TL-Lascannon Razorback and Landspeeder with Cyclone missiles. It was my turn next and my tyrant killed the LR in CC. I was promptly called a powergamer.

Thoughts? And if you were the SW or BT how would you handle this list?

Bunnahabhain
18-02-2012, 19:43
You're playing Tyranids with a carnifex. Anyone calling you a power gamer is being somewhat silly....EDIT or an edition and codex behind...

Droma
18-02-2012, 19:55
Your opponents are idiots.

Lord Damocles
18-02-2012, 20:07
Your opponents are idiots.
Yeah, this. Harsh as it sounds.


This is also assuming that being a 'power gamer' is a bad thing, which isn't usually agreed upon round these parts.

Sons of Lorgar
18-02-2012, 20:40
Ehh... sounds like the BT player was just a really bad looser. One lost tank to an MC hardly makes anyone a power gamer.

Paint it Red
18-02-2012, 20:44
Just bad kids who haven't learned that land raiders and the like are not unbeatable units. I would consider your list fairly weak in the anti-tank compartment, so you have to be bad to loose your expensive av14 tank in close combat.

Project2501
18-02-2012, 21:01
You did nothing wrong, your list is not a 'powerlist' and you are not a powergamer. If us telling you so is not enough to convince you otherwise, look at the situation like this; a powergamer couldn't care less if some scrub kid gets emotionally upset over losing their shiny toys and subsequently gets called a powergamer. If anything, a powergamer looks forward to taking advantage of that psychological weakness in their opponent, and already knows their list is as powerfull as the rules allow and loves it.

The fact that you're upset by any of the events that transpired, AND sought out ways to understand how it all happened means you aren't a powergamer.

:angel:





(assuming that is the point of this thread)

Draconis
18-02-2012, 21:04
Well, technically I'd consider the Tyranid army weak in the anti-tank department. So here's my follow up questions. Help me design an army within the following parameters according to this player.

1500 and 2k Nids.

No Tyrant with Paroxysm as it's OP for being free.
No Tervigon as it gives you free points which is unfair.
No Doom as it's OP (kinda is, but not against SM armies that spam missiles...)
No Warriors. 3 wounds is not fair (I've explained 3 SM are better math wise)
No Raveners. Same reason.
No Tyrannofex. 6 wounds. Same reason.
No Trygon/Prime. See above. "Got to kill it 6 times."
No Mawloc. Same reason.

This leaves me playing horde it feels, without synapse of course. But even then, I'm doubtful it would be considered fair. Of course I'd then be footslogging against a shooty gunline BT army....

Draconis
18-02-2012, 21:09
You did nothing wrong, your list is not a 'powerlist' and you are not a powergamer. If us tellin you so is not enough to convince you otherwise, look at the situation like this; a powergamer couldn't care less if some scrub kid gets emotionally upset over losing their shiny toys and subsequently gets called a powergamer. If anything, a powergamer looks forward to taking advantage of that psychological weakness in their opponent, and already knows their list is as powerfull as the rules allow and loves it.

The fact that you're upset by any of the events that transpored, AND sought out ways to understand how it all happened means you aren't a powergamer.

:angel:





(assuming that is the point of this thread)


Danke sir. I also don't play my CSM or Daemons because some of the non-lash psyker powers are op. The power-flamer is OP. A mark of khorne, daemon weapon wielding lord is op. I don't play my Tau cause stealth is OP, JSJ is OP.

MajorWesJanson
18-02-2012, 21:13
Personally, I hate Doom, and Tervigons are annoying exponentially as you add them to the list. Your list is a tad odd being essentially a drop pod army, but is otherwise fine.

Bunnahabhain
18-02-2012, 21:15
Tyranids, CSM, Daemons, and Tau are overpowered? There are probably the weakest three codices in the game there....Your opponent is some kind of prize idiot.

I'd suggest pasting HARD them with tournament standard Guard, GK, SW or BA list, and say, " No, this is power gaming. Would you care to face my tau/Nids/chaos without moaning?"

The Marshel
18-02-2012, 21:16
Danke sir. I also don't play my CSM or Daemons because some of the non-lash psyker powers are op. The power-flamer is OP. A mark of khorne, daemon weapon wielding lord is op. I don't play my Tau cause stealth is OP, JSJ is OP.

man, get new opponents, it sounds like you only play games against whiny kids.

You've spent a lot of money on your armies, and i'm sure you've also spent a lot of time painting and modelling them, you have a right to enjoy them as much as anyone else, op or not.

your opponents need to get over themselves

ctsteel
18-02-2012, 21:24
Well, technically I'd consider the Tyranid army weak in the anti-tank department. So here's my follow up questions. Help me design an army within the following parameters according to this player.

1500 and 2k Nids.

No Tyrant with Paroxysm as it's OP for being free.
No Tervigon as it gives you free points which is unfair.
No Doom as it's OP (kinda is, but not against SM armies that spam missiles...)
No Warriors. 3 wounds is not fair (I've explained 3 SM are better math wise)
No Raveners. Same reason.
No Tyrannofex. 6 wounds. Same reason.
No Trygon/Prime. See above. "Got to kill it 6 times."
No Mawloc. Same reason.

This leaves me playing horde it feels, without synapse of course. But even then, I'm doubtful it would be considered fair. Of course I'd then be footslogging against a shooty gunline BT army....

It is the duty of your opponent to come up with his own list/tactics to combat what you bring to the table by the points and limits of your codex. It is not his right to tell you what you can/can't take because of his opinions or because he's afraid to challenge himself or wants to auto-win. If a bunch of tough models are placed in the army, you start looking at how to exploit other weaknesses, or how to use the table terrain to your advantage, or you sacrifice one of your units to tie it up and keep it away from your objective etc.

I'm not advocating the stereotypical 'power gaming' where a player obsessively tweaks his list to be as crazy as possible, but I feel that if it's allowed by the codex, and played fairly and in good humour then take it as a challenge to overcome rather than whinging about it. These limitations the player is attempting to impose on you so he doesn't have to think or work to win, just get up my nose.

Heck it's not even about winning, it's about making for an interesting and entertaining battle for both of you. You [rhetorically speaking in regard to the other player] don't have to win to enjoy it - make a personal challenge to take down that trygon, laugh about it, berate your men for dying and cheer when they bring the big one down etc - have fun with losing well rather than obsessing with winning easily.

Draconis
18-02-2012, 21:33
Much appreciated for the comments. Keep them coming please. And I'm serious, I want the community to help me come up with a list to where there cannot be any complaints against. I have every model in the Nid dex. So there should be no problem.

kaimarion
18-02-2012, 22:18
List building is part of the game, if your opponents cannot build a decent list that functions well in their meta then that's their problem and they shouldn't complain just because someone else is capable of building something that actually functions well.

If it makes you feel any better your list doesn't look that powerful.

althathir
19-02-2012, 01:44
Much appreciated for the comments. Keep them coming please. And I'm serious, I want the community to help me come up with a list to where there cannot be any complaints against. I have every model in the Nid dex. So there should be no problem.

If they're complaining about non-lash chaos psychic powers, Tau, and that Nid list I really don't know what to tell you (the mark of khorne chaos lord with DW can seem OP if you don't roll bad and end up wounding yourself).

I honestly think that if you don't mind other people handling your models that you trade armies when you play againist them.

Chem-Dog
19-02-2012, 03:24
the mark of khorne chaos lord with DW can seem OP if you don't roll bad and end up wounding yourself

I have a regular opponent whose Khorne Lord is famous for his predilection for self-harm, seems he can't start a battle without testing how sharp his blade is and he often decides to have a nap before the end of the game.


I don't see any real problem with the list though, as others have said some stuff in it is definitely sub-optimal.
I wonder if the Black Templars player is suffering from some OCI (Older Codex Issues) as their list is incredibly creaky and, if you're not careful, all those little upgrades that are paid for per capita start to make individual units awfully expensive.

In short, I wouldn't sweat too much if someone's calling you OP and it's quite possible that the fault lies with their army builds and not with yours, no Marine force should really ever be lacking in the AT style weaponry that's required to nix the bigger stuff (they killed your Fex and nearly did for the Flyrant too!) and bolters are incredibly efficient at dropping the smaller stuff even if there isn't much in the way of Anti-Personnel fire.


Oh....and what happened with the Ork player?!

Draconis
19-02-2012, 03:36
He ended up losing, they beat each other to a pulp infantry wise, but the BT player still had all but 2 of his Armor left. As for the BT codex, they are considered a sleeper T1 army with a couple impressive major tournie wins. It's a numbers thing, he looks at the 6 wounds and thinks that scary. Yet, doesn't realize one round of firing with all those las cannons, meltas, missiles, etc will take them out. A prime costs 240 points, add that in costs of marines and they'll easily win. Just no way to convince him though.

TheDoctor
19-02-2012, 06:13
Well, technically I'd consider the Tyranid army weak in the anti-tank department. So here's my follow up questions. Help me design an army within the following parameters according to this player.

1500 and 2k Nids.

No Tyrant with Paroxysm as it's OP for being free.
No Tervigon as it gives you free points which is unfair.
No Doom as it's OP (kinda is, but not against SM armies that spam missiles...)
No Warriors. 3 wounds is not fair (I've explained 3 SM are better math wise)
No Raveners. Same reason.
No Tyrannofex. 6 wounds. Same reason.
No Trygon/Prime. See above. "Got to kill it 6 times."
No Mawloc. Same reason.

This leaves me playing horde it feels, without synapse of course. But even then, I'm doubtful it would be considered fair. Of course I'd then be footslogging against a shooty gunline BT army....

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Your opponent is dumb. Get new opponents.

Seriously though, usually I try to be nice, and see both sides of the issue. But that person is dumb. There is no way getting around that.

I would agree with Bunnahabhain. If you have the models, then paste him with a Grey Knights or Blood Angels Army.

The Custodian
19-02-2012, 07:09
Hmm. Yeah i won't repeat what others have said about your opponent because they are right.

Now as for making a list with those restrictions... Ygmarl stealers with hive guard filing the other two elite slots. As for troops. Spores podding devilguants and such would help close the gap to his apparent gunline.

Hw wise your limited to primes and the parasite. So a prime hanging with the guards to keep them shooting at what you want. Lastly a lot of outflanking stealer broods would also be useful.

Its really restrictive what he's done but there's still a chunk of things in our book that can give the little bugger something to whine about. (Although i really love the idea of bringing a GK army and showing him what real OP is.)

AngryAngel
19-02-2012, 07:15
Some people just need to complain and think everyone is op. It is their way. I have one opponent that no matter how I field my guard they are cheesy and broken. I field no vendettas, I do field at least 2 squads of storm troopers, and about every other game a deahtstrike. Minimal chimeras, a smattering of battle tanks now and then. Alot of infantry in platoons, including a 20 man conscript platoon. Though my lists are forever cheesy. Hell I have 10 Ogryn I field a good amount of the time as well.

Some people just think everything is cheesy. I'd suggest telling him he's an idiot in a nice way, or just playing other people.

TheDoctor
19-02-2012, 07:16
Actually, maybe some podding zoanthropes?

Wah wah wah, what do you mean you have a S10 AP1 Lance Weapon?

althathir
19-02-2012, 16:59
He ended up losing, they beat each other to a pulp infantry wise, but the BT player still had all but 2 of his Armor left. As for the BT codex, they are considered a sleeper T1 army with a couple impressive major tournie wins. It's a numbers thing, he looks at the 6 wounds and thinks that scary. Yet, doesn't realize one round of firing with all those las cannons, meltas, missiles, etc will take them out. A prime costs 240 points, add that in costs of marines and they'll easily win. Just no way to convince him though.

Honestly the best way to convince him is probably just to loan him the nid dex and tell him to write a list with it. When I was looking at starting a second army nids were one of the armies I looked at, but I always ended up making similiar lists, and they never seemed to have as much stuff in them as I thought they should.

Dr.Clock
19-02-2012, 18:02
Draconis, this is a really unfortunate situation for you to be in, I gotta say...

As someone who lives ridiculously far from the closest GW or hobby shop, I consider myself blessed to have an excellent and accommodating regular opponent.

But seriously, you need to nip this in the bud. If you start making all of these concessions just to ensure that they have a 'fun' game and know exactly what to expect, then it won't stop here. No matter what list you bring, if you win they will likely ask you to never take one of your units again.

The ONE thing I have an issue with in the 'nid codex is the Doom... mostly because it flies in the face of the 'understood' way of doing damage in 40k.

If your opponent is essentially telling you to take only infantry, tell him you expect the same. If you can't have your big toys, neither can he. No Land Raiders... no vehicles of any kind other than maybe walkers. If he agrees, you'll actually probably get a pretty kick-ass game out of it, as infantry battles are still pretty awesome.

After he (likely) tells you to get stuffed, I'd suggest maybe going over his own list with him and trying to point out some ways he can tackle the units you often take.

Also, it might be helpful to make sure your opponent knows what to expect from you... I often talk to my opponent when I want to field something out of the ordinary, and as long as you are upfront about it, the enemy can plan in advance and can't really call shenanigans.

Anyhow... good luck.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

daemonprinceyourself
19-02-2012, 18:23
Hahahahaha. That is all I have to say. Ridiculous

Kijamon
19-02-2012, 18:31
After ONE game you're a power gamer?

I had a hive tyrant spend 4 assault phases assaulting a land raider doing little damage only for the land raider to promptly shoot him to death. Does that make a hive tyrant under powered and a land raider over powered?

Ridiculous

wyvirn
19-02-2012, 19:12
Well, technically I'd consider the Tyranid army weak in the anti-tank department. So here's my follow up questions. Help me design an army within the following parameters according to this player.

1500 and 2k Nids.

No Tyrant with Paroxysm as it's OP for being free.
No Tervigon as it gives you free points which is unfair.
No Doom as it's OP (kinda is, but not against SM armies that spam missiles...)
No Warriors. 3 wounds is not fair (I've explained 3 SM are better math wise)
No Raveners. Same reason.
No Tyrannofex. 6 wounds. Same reason.
No Trygon/Prime. See above. "Got to kill it 6 times."
No Mawloc. Same reason.

This leaves me playing horde it feels, without synapse of course. But even then, I'm doubtful it would be considered fair. Of course I'd then be footslogging against a shooty gunline BT army....

I think your best option would to find another opponent or not give his comments any attention.
But to answer your question, if your opponent is going to be a Scrub, you might as well be a stop having fun guy. (Google it)

Winged Tyrant with hive commander for 1500, SW for 2k, with tyrant guards.
Max out hive guard.
Outflanking genestealers with toxin sacs.
If you have points left over, gargoyles with parasite to deep strike in.

Alternatively, I recommend playing a game with him but with your army swapped out, so he knows how difficult the army really is.

Project2501
19-02-2012, 19:18
Something I'm a bit remiss to have no mentioned yet myself is why not have your opponents join Warseer and get some help both understanding what a powergamer and powerlist are and how to build and use their own armies?

Failing that, you could at least show them this thread?

Draconis
19-02-2012, 19:20
I will in due time. The person knows about warseer, but is more of a fan of bolter and chainsword (being a BT player), also, not being very literate on posting on forums, I doubt he has asked for help.

Fithos
19-02-2012, 19:56
When I read the title the first thought I had was "If you have to ask it probably is." Then I started reading the thread and saw Tyranids and my face seriously went :wtf:

Long story short, you play Tyranids. That's about as much as you can do to avoid being called a power gamer. Just ignore it.

KingDeath
19-02-2012, 21:19
I suggest to actualy build the nastiest list that the Tyranids codex is capable of ( which isn't very nasty to be honest ) and then savour the tears of your idiot opponents.

Deadnight
19-02-2012, 22:30
Danke sir. I also don't play my CSM or Daemons because some of the non-lash psyker powers are op. The power-flamer is OP. A mark of khorne, daemon weapon wielding lord is op. I don't play my Tau cause stealth is OP, JSJ is OP.

you need to revise your definition of powergaming. stealth might as well not exist, such is its lack of ability. sight distance of 2d6X3? fine, you cant see them on the other side of the board, and then they're 150pts doing nothing. they need ti be within 12" to be doing anything useful (fusions) and if they're that close, you can get them. JSJ? hardly OP. they're not fast. you can outmanoevre them, flank them, chase them and catch them and then rip them to shreds in cc. tau are not able to outrun anything.

same with chaos. its a codex that is as far from "powergaming" as you can get... the most "broken" combo of spammed plagueys, 3x3 oblits and lash princes? well, trust me. it aint all that and a bag of chips.

your nids? seriously. your opponents sound like whiny children. it sounds like they want to win without trying, against someone (ie you) who doesnt have a chance of hurting them. seriously, thell them to go home, put on tekken 2 player, leave the other controller unplayed and start basing away against an unplaying opponent. because, essentially, thats what they're asking for. ridiculous. thank god for warmachine and page5. thats all i have to say.

Draconis
19-02-2012, 23:22
you need to revise your definition of powergaming. stealth might as well not exist, such is its lack of ability. sight distance of 2d6X3? fine, you cant see them on the other side of the board, and then they're 150pts doing nothing. they need ti be within 12" to be doing anything useful (fusions) and if they're that close, you can get them. JSJ? hardly OP. they're not fast. you can outmanoevre them, flank them, chase them and catch them and then rip them to shreds in cc. tau are not able to outrun anything.

same with chaos. its a codex that is as far from "powergaming" as you can get... the most "broken" combo of spammed plagueys, 3x3 oblits and lash princes? well, trust me. it aint all that and a bag of chips.

your nids? seriously. your opponents sound like whiny children. it sounds like they want to win without trying, against someone (ie you) who doesnt have a chance of hurting them. seriously, thell them to go home, put on tekken 2 player, leave the other controller unplayed and start basing away against an unplaying opponent. because, essentially, thats what they're asking for. ridiculous. thank god for warmachine and page5. thats all i have to say.


Haha, man, I miss Warmachine. So far I'm just trying to get as many peoples opinion as possible.

Chem-Dog
20-02-2012, 00:26
As for the BT codex, they are considered a sleeper T1 army with a couple impressive major tournie wins.

Very subjective according to build, I'm guessing that if he ....
looks at the 6 wounds and thinks that scary
and
doesn't realize one round of firing with all those las cannons, meltas, missiles, etc will take them out he isn't playing an ultimately honed tourney winning army. Like I said, it's easy enough to splurge points in the BT Codex and be left with some really tough nuts who still, unfortunately, fall down just as quickly as regular Marines, the Command squad for example.



my face seriously went :wtf:

You should probably get that seen to, purple isn't healthy. ;) :p

Draconis
20-02-2012, 01:40
Very subjective according to build, I'm guessing that if he ....
and he isn't playing an ultimately honed tourney winning army. Like I said, it's easy enough to splurge points in the BT Codex and be left with some really tough nuts who still, unfortunately, fall down just as quickly as regular Marines, the Command squad for example.


You should probably get that seen to, purple isn't healthy. ;) :p

Nothing has any serious upgrades in that army list I played against Saturday. EC had the re-roll vow. Some missiles and plasma guns in his squads. Some power fists. 5 termies with 2x LC. And thats about it for upgrades. Rest was in LR crusader, 2x Predators, 1 dread with CCW and TL lascannon I think, 3 Land speeders with Cyclones and Heavy bolters, 1 or 2 Razor backs, 2 rhinos and a handful of squads of infantry.

MasterValrik
20-02-2012, 03:28
Remind the players that called you a power gamer, that this game is set for people 13+ and that Heroquest is------that way---->

Dr.Clock
20-02-2012, 03:28
From the sounds of things, he's actually playing a pretty solid list, in general... lots of armour, of varying weights and speeds plus the usual smattering of MEQ infantry.

It occurs to me that in the last game you played, you were basically taking on the remnants of his army after he beat the orks and you beat the SW, right? If this is the case, it is likely that he was not in his deployment zone and you were not in yours... that is, that being across the board from the get-go made it a little easier for you to make assault... and a little tougher for him to wheel and face you on his flank?

This is the problem with 2 vs. 2 games where the armies don't coordinate. If you turn it into 2 1vs1 skirmishes and then expect the survivors to duke it out, someone is probably going to be badly out of position if they do not anticipate the new threat effectively. Games really shouldn't last more than 6 turns... if you can't call a winning side in that time, it's a draw. This is why I prefer objective games.

In sum, I'd suggest playing 1 on 1 until people are comfortable with normal missions before trying to do crazy apocalypse-style stuff.

Finally, I might suggest to the BT player that he give Suffer Not the Unclean to Live a shot against tyranids. Re-rolls to hit are nice, but if he is really worried about your MCs, then S5 will double his wounds in assault against T6 opponents, whereas re-rolling to-hit will net +50% against anyone from WS4-8. While fighting tyranids, one less point of I will very rarely make a difference in crucial assaults, especially if the enemy is assaulting you in cover (fighting tyranids, you should always stay in cover). Just a thought...

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Draconis
20-02-2012, 04:39
Good points all around, but the bt player was still in his deployment zone. :). The orc player rushed him in trucks. I dropped pods all over the sw player, who didnt move either. After the 4th round, i knew i had the sw player so i started to turn half my remaining army towards the bt deployment area.

orkmiester
20-02-2012, 11:14
Good points all around, but the bt player was still in his deployment zone. :). The orc player rushed him in trucks. I dropped pods all over the sw player, who didnt move either. After the 4th round, i knew i had the sw player so i started to turn half my remaining army towards the bt deployment area.


you and your ally had the right idea by trying to use the strengths of your armies to complement each other, no problem there. Your opponents however, they sound like 'cocky' marine players who think marines cannot be beaten- you gave them the shock that they can be beaten;)

if they are claming that nids are OP then i'm afraid they 'aint seen nothing yet...'

oh and just for the fun


ridiculous. thank god for warmachine and page5. thats all i have to say.

indeed good sir:D, 40k should have something similar, then these (excuse the tone) 'noobs' wouldn't whine every time they get whacked becasue they failed to write a decent army list- if they have been playing for sometime then:wtf: are they doing...

don't kick yourself

just my humble opinion:angel:

superdupermatt
20-02-2012, 11:43
Since when is a daemon prince with Mark of Khorne and wings overpowered???

Draconis
20-02-2012, 12:36
Since when is a daemon prince with Mark of Khorne and wings overpowered???

A DP with the Wind of Chaos Sorc. Ability. Yeah, I just tend to hear the same thing every week from the same player.

Is there anyway someone can take a pic of page 5 for me? High quality preferably. I want to print it out and laminate to hang on the wall :) Much appreciated if possible.

ErictheGreen
20-02-2012, 16:35
Here's what you do.

Offer him your Nid codex and your models to make the cheesiest, beardiest OP army possible.

Then you take his BT codex, and you take the massed typhoon speeders, the 2 cyclone tank hunters (yes, i know they're useless against nids, but tank hunters is what makes it tourny worthy), the assault terminators with FC and just generally everything in the book that's moderately points efficient.

Proceed to wipe the table with him, because he's obviously not a very good player.

Offer to show him how to build lists better and play better.

Find someone else to play when he throws a hissy fit.

Seriously dude, find someone else to play with. Toning down your army because people are new or inexperienced is cool, and a good thing to do for the hobby (not even toning down, just not playing to your A game). Crippling yourself because of whinging people, who will likely gloat when they win, is not hobby fun.

Rated_lexxx
20-02-2012, 16:55
People shout OP when something in there view is highly effective against there army. They cry OP when you deny something there use to.

For example there use to there landraider being a safe haven for there troops. You come along and deny them that safe haven by ripping his landraider apart. So that has to be OP'ed

Draconis
20-02-2012, 19:49
The only problem with refusing to play said person is we only have 4 peeps who play currently, myself included. Hopefully we'll have 3 more here soon.

Draconis
20-02-2012, 20:16
Wait till I get my Necron army completed... with as many tricks as it can take, I know for a fact I'll never heard the end of it.

Sons of Lorgar
20-02-2012, 20:57
Well, if he nags, throw in a Forge World pylon and Tomb stalker...

Draconis
25-02-2012, 15:03
How does this list seem? I made it fluffy and it doesn't look to powerful on paper but just the right amount of nastiness to provide a challenge.

Basically fluff wise, I have a general and his captains. They in turn each have their own core of troops.

General
Hive Tyrant. Wings. LW/BS and ScyTal. Old Adversary. Leech Essence and Paroxysm.
15 Gargoyles (cover and counter charge)

Captain
Tervigon. Catalyst
15 Termagants.
Tyrannofex. Rupture Cannon. Cluster Spines. Thorax Swarm Larvae. (He goes up front, and like Mundo, he goes where he wants.)

Captain
Tyranid Prime. Regen. 2x Boneswords. ScyTal.
6 Tyranid Warriors. 2x Boneswords. ScyTal

Captain
Broodlord.
14 Genestealers

This is my 1500 point version. I'll make a 2k version as well. I'd really love to throw some lictors in there.

For 2k, I'll probably add

Captain
Trygon Prime
3 Ravener. Rending Claws. (all I have, would love to make it 6)

3 Bivore to the Tyrannofex, so he gets promoted.

1 Genestealer, making the total 15 plus BroodLord