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rmeister0
18-02-2012, 21:55
While strolling around on line for hints on my VC army I keep coming across discussion of 'filler'. I get it in context, but for this beginner's brain, what exactly are we talking about, and is it generally accepted in the player community? I don't care about tournaments since I don't plan to play in them.

Foxtrick
18-02-2012, 22:02
I think filler models are basically substituted models that are different to normal to make the overall unit look unique - but is still a playable piece - i.e its the same as the others in that unit.

I'm still yet to actually play but thats my understanding - sorry if I'm wrong :)

Foxtrick
18-02-2012, 22:06
On a side note, I think a filler model can also be a 'conversion' unit meaning it has foreign parts/elements to it but still is a standard model of that set unit.

Or so I think...

ArtificerArmour
18-02-2012, 22:21
All you need to know is in this link :):

http://simonfisherrofl.blogspot.com/2011/10/editorial-another-filler-post-unit.html

The bearded one
18-02-2012, 22:24
I believe you mean "unitfillers"

these are models, groups of models, scenery etc. put somewhere in the middle of the unit on a large base in order to represent several regular rank&file models (virtually always for infantry, hardly ever for any other trooptype though, as a unitfiller in a unit of 5-6 monstrous infantry looks weird and confusing). Examples include having a unit of empire statetroops with an empire ogre mercenary to walk in the middle on a 40x40mm base (so he represents 4 statetroops), or clanrats with a rat ogre, chaos warriors with a portal summoning daemons, skeletons and zombies with pieces of the new "Garden of Morr" terrain set etc. etc.

Unitfillers are generally built either to skimp on the costs by avoiding having to buy 4 or 6 more models and using some scenery or leftover bitz or models instead, or they are built to spice up the look of the unit. A big blob of 40 clanrats or marauders isn't particularly interesting to look at beyond the frontrank or two, but if you add a cart of warpstone or a chaos shrine or something there is more to look at and to make the unit stand out more from a distance.

Unitfillers are generally approved of, and sometimes encouraged. When for example you're at a tournament and there's a few dozen tables and twice as many armies, all the big blobs of clanrats and zombies and skeletons just start to blur together eventually, regardless of the paintingquality, but a welldone unitfiller draws attention. I don't think unitfillers are really forbidden anywhere, and nobody should be forbidding you to play in a store or club with them. There is a segment of the community that doesn't look favourable on unitfillers though, but I'm pretty sure it's fairly small and the majority either like them or don't give a damn either way.

Darnok
18-02-2012, 22:38
Concerning unitfillers...

What do you mean by "generally accepted"? If you are talking of the "whole" community - whatever that means - you will most likely find two opinions for every questions you could come up with. Here on WarSeer I have seen pretty much everything between "yeah, cool, please do so" and "absolutely no". You should ask the people you play with, because they are the ones that matter.

Personally: I'm fine with a lot of things, as long as they have a purpose other than making things cheaper. You want to stretch your box of zombies from 20 models to 40? Great, but please put some effort into it. A good rule of thumb from my own experience is: if the unit filler takes more energy and work than the models it is replacing, you most likely do it right. Because let's be honest: if you build a small tomb into your huge zombie unit, and convert some zombies crawling out and over it, that will take much more time than simply painting half a dozen zombies. Somebody guessing which army I'm working on? :D

In general I'm positive towards unitfillers. I think they are a great opportunity to personalise your army and make it truly unique. And if you save a few bucks - even better! But it all comes down to wether you want to put the effort into it, and wether your gaming buddies are fine with it.

RanaldLoec
18-02-2012, 22:47
Example of a cheap unit filler is marauders holding back chaos hounds on chains great little filler that looks great in a front rank of a horde.

ArtificerArmour
18-02-2012, 23:01
I had a friend who used the ruins of osgiliath as unit fillers for ghouls, but they were all L shaped. Basically, it was more filler than unit and made removing casualties and organising ranks an utter nightmare

SaltGut
18-02-2012, 23:39
The bearded one said it all.

I like using unit fillers to give my units some theme or narative.

My night goblin units have giant mushrooms with goblins on or under them. A shaman brewing a potions over a camp fire, goblins holding down a fanatic and preparing to let him lose.

Some of the GT's I go to (north east coast of the US) even give extra points on painting check lists for having them.

herohammer
18-02-2012, 23:47
The only rule concerning using different models or bits of terrain etc etc within your fantasy units is that at least 50% of the models in the unit must be correctly equipped so that it is clear what the unit is meant to be using gear wise. No one will ever complain about using unit fillers in fantasy as long as you follow that rule since it is the only rule concerning them. Many people will outfit spare ogre bulls in empire or dwarf gear and stick them in units as big mercenaries, most vampire counts players have at least some of their skeletons and zombies represented by gravestones (particularly useful since they can be used as either zombies or skeletons depending on what you raise) or hands clawing up out of the ground.

Zark the Damned
19-02-2012, 00:07
Unit fillers are the cancer that is killing Warhammer.

Joking hyperbole aside, it really depends on the filler. Having an Ogre in the middle of a bunch of militia is generally all right, but I've seen some absurd stuff like terrain replacing models, a unit of 5 Fellbats where there are only 3 actual bats and 2 chunks of masonry, a single Skaven on a big rock counting as 9 clanrats, a knight being used as 8 greatswords, and so on.

As a personal guideline, 80%+ of a unit should be representative of what the unit is, and if there are fillers it should not feature large amounts of scenery or empty space. Fillers should server to enhance the aesthetic of the army, rather than just being a money saver.

movin_pics
19-02-2012, 00:31
whilst I agree in principle that any unit filler should be for aesthetic reasons, I wont begrudge a guy for trying to save a bit of cash on the side provided some effort has gone into the mini...

w3rm
19-02-2012, 03:42
I use fillers in the form of rat ogres in slave units. But that's just to save money. As long as it's not like a rock on a 40mm base I'm good with it. There should be at least one converted model on the base to represent a little scene or something of that sort.

cbelm
19-02-2012, 05:28
I use fillers in the form of rat ogres in slave units. But that's just to save money. As long as it's not like a rock on a 40mm base I'm good with it. There should be at least one converted model on the base to represent a little scene or something of that sort.

I also do this - spent a lot of time painting the rat ogres but they rarely get run as their own unit. It's a good way to get the models on the table and bulk out slave/clanrat units (typically I might put 2 rat ogres in a 40 rat unit.)

Akkaryn
19-02-2012, 08:34
I'm of the opinion its fine however there are limits.

My main opponent uses a lion to represent 2 models in a white lion unit of 14. This i have no problems with.

On more than one occasion I've seen someone who has had 16 models in a 30 man unit replaced with unit fillers. This is too far and made it very difficult to tell what was going on with said unit.

spikedog
19-02-2012, 11:06
Unit fillers are great, they can help bring a theme to an otherwise boring looking unit. All of my units in my VC army have them (Or at least will when I am done), here is my first unit:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/spikedog_woof/Warhammer/Vampire%20Counts%20New/DSC09221.jpg

Urgat
19-02-2012, 13:29
All you need to know about fillers is that Tokamak is going to show up soon and tell you how unit fillers will kill your family, rape your neighbors and condemn your soul to Hell :p

jack da greenskin
19-02-2012, 13:48
Unit fillers are great, they can help bring a theme to an otherwise boring looking unit. All of my units in my VC army have them (Or at least will when I am done), here is my first unit:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/spikedog_woof/Warhammer/Vampire%20Counts%20New/DSC09221.jpg

This is pretty much an example of a perect unit filler - Easy to tell that its still a skellie unit, still has the front rank or two, livens up the back rank and adds a lot of theme to the whole unit. This is quite achieveable with vampire counts and tomb kings, but kudos to spikedog on this one. Oh but they need heads ;)

Kloud13
20-02-2012, 04:04
I Just built some Zombies on Regiment bases (20mmx80mm).

So they are 4 models wide, and so there are usually at least one complete zombie on each base, then the other 3 spaces might have Another complete zombie, half a zombie coming out of the Ground, a head and 2 hands just breaking the surface, or a tombstone.

I think for units like zombies who die in droves,and/or are raised back in signifigant numbers, the regiment bases make things alot quicker so that you can spend more time playing than trying to rank units up.

The bearded one
20-02-2012, 13:29
All you need to know about fillers is that Tokamak is going to show up soon and tell you how unit fillers will kill your family, rape your neighbors and condemn your soul to Hell :p

I remember that thread :D

wizbix
20-02-2012, 15:46
There will inevitably be those that are critical of unit fillers/diorama's but they dont have to be there just to skimp on models. In fact large units like Goblins are just crying out for some kind of filler. Heres a shot of one of mine so you get the idea:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/wizbix/P3220005.jpg

quietus1986
20-02-2012, 19:14
I have a unit that is more filler than unit but. I am still making the units crawl out of the fillers and stuff ( a grave yard ). its a giant 100 man zombie unit ( 20-30 extra models to replays the fillers if they are death of to raise lol.)
And on my blog you can see a on finished filler. still needs 2 empire models shooting from begined it and one ghoul o n it drooling down.

Desert Rain
20-02-2012, 22:21
I like unit fillers, as long as there is some effort put into them and that the majority, about 80% of the unit, is made up of the actual models for that unit.

Jim
21-02-2012, 15:33
I'm a big fan of unit fillers - I think the bearded one summed it up well...

I play Empire and use the direct only bear & handler on a 40m base as one, a Ogre, the blessing direct only model, etc... and I think it makes each unit a little different and interesting to look at.

Currently trying to think of one to use in a Flagellant horde - I think the Bretonnian Relaquiae (sp?) could work well - thoughts?

Jim

ArtificerArmour
21-02-2012, 15:35
How about the seige tower with flaggies jumping off and hanging themselves :p its art in the book!

Jim
21-02-2012, 16:08
That would be amazing!!!

Just need to figure out a way to fit it on a 40m square base!!!

Jim

boli
21-02-2012, 16:36
I currently have two units filler although I am going to make many more.

It all depends how the models look ranked up *without*. Skavenslaves without shields and dressed in dirty rags are very "meh" and deserve some sort of a filler a diarama in the centre is perfect. And yet my unit of stormvermin look better all ranked up in one Homogeneous mass. I may go as far to build up that unit on multiple 40x40mm but that is more for conveinance than design.

I have my grey seer mounted on a fallen screaming bell on a 40x40mm base; imho this suits both the unit and the character - I plan to have him count as 3 clanrats and himself but I could quite easily just run him by himself if my opponant complains. My second one was done by necessity rather than invention. The plague furnace has a bad overhang at the back which made plague monks hard to fit under there so I made a low 40x60mm piece to put behind the bell.. right now it is just textured scenery but I plan to add a couple of plague-ridden giant rats n there in the future. It also allows me to expand my plague monks from an annoying 59 (I have no idea where one got to!) to a scary 35 or 65 pushing a plague furnace depending on my needs.

In truth though it depends on the filler itself if it adds to a unit instead of taking away its legal in my book.

Bellygrub
22-02-2012, 14:00
While I normally try to keep fillers on a 40mm base I have been known to go overboard. For example my 50 zombie unit has a 20 man filler of two Bretonnians fighting off zombies in front of a crypt. This unit will be my main zombie unit and will grow as the game goes on. If anyone were to complain I would either not use the unit or just replace the filler. It took me a lot longer to pose the figures and was more expensive then buying the zombies outright so I can't be accused of doing it to be cheap. I just thought it would look good.


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giant stegadon
22-02-2012, 17:24
Boli has a really good point about how each unit looks & if a unit filler helps or whatever. Skaven I think suffer the most from "sameness"- mostly since you have these huge blocks of clanrats (or is that slaves?) in nearly every army.

Tupinamba
24-02-2012, 10:49
Although I donīt have any yet, Iīm totally in favour of unit fillers, considering the unnecessary increase of medium army sizes to 2500 points paired with the simultaneous decrease in points costs and increase in money costs for the minis.

I very often see people complaining about the entrance costs in WHFB, compared to 40k, because of the huge amount of rank and file models needed, and unit fillers are a perfect solution for that.

Of course, like everything else in the hobby, it depends on common sense. Unit fillers should be an opportunity to use your creativity, not just some lazy thrown stuff, and I have seen some excellent fillers around.

Godswildcard
24-02-2012, 15:30
There is a player at my FLGS that uses several GREAT fillers for his zombies, most notably a Zombie Giant that has a bolt through its chest. Takes the place of 15 zombies (chariot base) but it looks soooooo good!!