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View Full Version : Codex Eye of Terror, Armageddon and Craftworld Eldar have been banned from the UK GT



Jonathan =I=
06-05-2006, 13:59
This message was sent in response to rumors surrounding Codex Eye of Terror, Armageddon and Craftworld Eldar in the Uk GT.


RE: RE: RE: RE: 40K codices @ GT's - GW-briana (Brian)
Replies [0]. This Reply Posted [5/5/2006 16:16].

Hi guys,

Just so there isn't any unecessary speculation about the original question in this thread I thought I'd post a reply.

The new 40K GT pack is due to be published on the web next week so you'll be able to look at all the 'house rules for this year UK GT Tournament season.

I will tell you now though that the original poster was correct. Codex: Eye of Terror and Codex: Armageddon are both excluded from the GT's for similar reasons to the Storm of Chaos book for Warhammer. the Codex: Craftworld Eldar has been removed, on the advice of the Games Development team, because of issues with these rules that will be resolved in the near future.

If anyone has any comments or questions about this then feel free to get in touch through the events email address
events@games-workshp.co.uk

Hope that's OK

Brian
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Now let me also say that these lists were not dropped because they were overpowered/beardy but rather for the reason stated above. Craftworld elder was most likely dropped because of the up coming new Elder Codex.

Thoughts?

A neutral shade of black.
06-05-2006, 14:57
Yay for Ulthwe disappearing, shame about Lost and the Damned being killed. Weren't Speed Freaks in Armaggeddon too?

Lardidar
06-05-2006, 16:18
Yup, Good move if you ask me.

Eldar codex is due in the not too distant future and it helps clear away Ulthwe and Spead freaks.

Anathema
06-05-2006, 16:59
leading to even more iron warriors......

mortus
06-05-2006, 18:19
Be careful what you wish for, it may well happen Anathema.

Myself I'd be a bit disapointed about not being able to use 13th company that I've painted up, only on principle of course!

Anathema
06-05-2006, 18:26
Believe me, thats the last thing I want to happen, but its what I can see happening. Where will all the Ulthwe and Alaitoc players go? It won't be Daemonhunters and Orks, I'll tell you that.

Estragor
07-05-2006, 00:15
So GW are going to not allow the use of:
Speed Freaks
Eldar Craftword Lists
Ulthew Strike Force
Lost and the Damned
13th Company

Now can understand dropping eldar and speed freak list because of the new codex to be released but what about Lost and the Damned & 13th Company? What is GW's reasoning behind dropping these armies?

And of course, what about Feral Orks & Kroot Mecernaries? They dont even have their own codexs so is GW going to allow these lists?

Just one more reason to no go to tournaments me thinks.

Lardidar
07-05-2006, 08:46
The reason is that these lists (apart from Eldar) are campaign lists from Eye of terror and Armageddon and just like they are doing with fantasy campaign lists they are no longer used in tournaments.

I have a feeling you will be seeing 13th Co. elements introduced into the new Woofers codex when it hits stores.

All good, Yes there will be more Iron warriors but they are a hell of a lot easier to beat than a cheesed up Ulthwe, Iyandan or Aliatoc list.

The only list it is a shame to lose is L&D they had a nice character.

starlight
07-05-2006, 08:57
Oddly enough the Medusa rules pack *includes* most of those Codexes.:wtf:

Oh well, just another reason to avoid the whole GT scene.

Estragor
07-05-2006, 16:42
Looks like this will be GW’s attitude to events:

Grand Tournaments: Power gamers realm with only "official" lists used in a very competitive environment with more points awarded for cheese rather than character.

Campaign Events: Fluff armies more important than cheese, more drive for “fun” over extreme “competitive” games. See the Sabbat Worlds, Return To Damocles events as examples. Includes use of campaign armies such as LatD.

Personally, I would much rather go to a campaign weekend rather than a Grand Tournament.

Lardidar
07-05-2006, 17:04
How is this change a win for power gamers?

They are losing 3 abusable Eldar lists and Speed freaks.

That seems to me to be a loss to power gamers.

greenskinned git
07-05-2006, 17:55
I gotta tell you, speed freaks are not a power list in 4th edition. They were almost too good in 3rd, but that was along time ago. They are generally able to compete (not cheese) with a decent amount of terrain, but that has been rare at the last conflict tourney I went to. I do believe they are the only way to be tournament competative with an ork list, if you aren't ferals. Since about 1/2 the ork tourney guys out there are freak players, I find this rather unfair to say the least, unless a new ork codex is going to be out before the UK GT, which is exteremly unlikely according to the rumour section.:mad:

Personally, this doesn't effect me right now, but I'd be pissed if it travels over here. My only army right now is speed freak orks, and all my gaming is in RTT's.

Is this just another step towards marines vs chaos only at the UKGT's? If that's the master plan, I wish they would just get it over with.

Insane Psychopath
07-05-2006, 18:36
Eldar Craft world codex was taken away because to many bad lossing gits moan about it since GT finials 2005. Now this happens, but luck it allowed in the finials (to note I do not collect Eldar, but I find it fun face armies like Ultwe & Alatioc as it help me keep on my toes)

Not only that but this year I bet you on ever board/fourm, another army will be moan about by the same people who moan about Eldar, my bet on Tau, Chaos & Marines are the most like once, "IF" they win a heat. End of the day even if you take say like Eldar crafted world, there will alway be another army for the bad losser to pick & it'll then lead to a dull boring event with no deep strikeing etc specil rules because they are not happy with them. As one army gose done another one will rise & be pick on.

I find it unfair. Why should people get called names just because they want to play/use a army diffrent from you lot?? End of the day you lot are very unlike to face these armies in your local GW & also rememeber your not force to fight them in your local GW as well.

But again it because of the bad losser moan about this. Also as said I bet you lot that there will be a NEW army that will get as much bulls*** as Eldar got. Just because they can not think of tactics. End of the day if they do not like fighting a "type" of list, then they should not enter the GTs it is that simple, rahter than go there & then spend all day on the fourms talking about how "cheese/beardy" said army was.

As for Armegeddon/eye of terror the reason the same as the Strom of Chaos for WFB. On that note with Orks they are most like to get there codex around summer of 2007 by my guess so should be ready for the heats.

IP

Prophaniti
07-05-2006, 19:28
I think the reason for the craftworld lists going is that the forthcoming eldar codex will render them invalid anyway. People are annoyed now and I can't say I blame them, but how annoyed would they be if they designed, bought and painted an army for the heats, only to find out that they couldn't then use it in the final?

starlight
07-05-2006, 19:46
I agree that is a likey explaination (and gives hope for the contents of the Codex) for the Eldar lists, but the Orks are (supposedly) not due for at least another year. Killing Speed Freaks without some form of explaination is just bad form.

Anathema
07-05-2006, 19:51
but how annoyed would they be if they designed, bought and painted an army for the heats, only to find out that they couldn't then use it in the final?

About as annoyed as I am to have found out about the units I painted and put into my list having to be removed to put in some crappy Rangers just to make the army vanilla!:D

I fully expect to change the list for the finals anyway, it happened last year through my experience at the heats. Never mind, we shall see the effects at this years heats. Best case: A load of interesting Vanilla lists attending. Worst case: Iron Warrior/Mech Tau central (Mech Tau being the best counter to IW around).

Estragor
07-05-2006, 20:39
In regards to the dropping of the Craftword codex, can someone explain to me which/ how the lists can be exploited as the only craftword army I normally face is the Biel-Tan list. Only beardy Craftword list that springs to mind is Alaitoc Ranger Disruption table list.

My earlier comment of power gamer releam refers to the dropping of the Speed Freak, 13th Comapany and Lost and the Damned lists. The removal of very fluffy lists (even so called campaign lists), requiring large numbers of conversions to even build will just futher encourage the use of power gamer lists imho.

Insane Psychopath
07-05-2006, 20:46
Prophaniti: I know what you mean BUT rememember old Templars where use in the Heats last year & Marines before that & Nids during the Conflict time, then new codex for the finials. It is wired that they would just drop them while other codex get use before the swap over.

IP

Lardidar
07-05-2006, 20:53
First off I use a normal nid army (Tyrant, Lictoe, Stealers, Gaunts, Gaunts, Ravenors, Zoanathorps)

The Iyandan wraithlord army can be hard to shift.

The alaitoc 9 units of 3 rangers plays hell with most armies.

I think it may have been Mr 2 units of 5 guardians and a 1400pt Seer council that got the craftworld book in a spot of bother. (or the 20 man council and as many S cannons as you can fit)

Speed freaks as has been pointed out have been toned down a bit in 4th Ed.

Sorry if my spelling and grammer are a little off just had my first glass of whiskey in nearly a year and am feeling a tad merry :)

Prophaniti
07-05-2006, 21:04
Insane Psychopath: I realise that other codices have been released during the course of the tournament season. The examples you have cited didn't require major changes to the armies to keep them effective after the new books. I suspect that what's in store for the eldar may be more radical and far reaching, especially for the craftworld lists.

The situation is somewhat unique, as the UK GT is the only 40K tournament that has both heats and a final over the time-span of a few months. New codices would not be a problem for a 1 or 2 day event as they either would or wouldn't be valid. For the GT, the whole time frame must be considered.

I think that the new codex: eldar would be valid for the final and thus supercede the two currant 'dexes which would be used in the heats. The nature of the changes could make it unfair for someone using the existing craftworld codex who would have to make radical changes to their army for the final. Where this would not be the case with the regular eldar codex.

Possibly....

onnotangu
08-05-2006, 19:12
I don't play in GT anyway. so this news is not really going to affect me.

stahly
08-05-2006, 19:53
I see that in the grim darkness of the UK GT there is only power armour.

Easy E
09-05-2006, 01:11
Out of curiosity (I'm not much of a tourney person)

Can you still use Armored Comapnies (WD Version) or Feral Orks?

I just hope these ideas that Eye of Terror or Armageddon armies being "Unofficial" does not effect the lists "everyday" playability. Many people seem to think if it's not tourney legal, then it does not exist.

Jonathan =I=
09-05-2006, 06:10
Nope no chapter approved lists/units are allowed.

squigsnok
09-05-2006, 17:49
Out of curiosity (I'm not much of a tourney person)

Can you still use Armored Comapnies (WD Version) or Feral Orks?



Armoured companies have never been tournament legal in the UK (to the best of my knowledge) and ferals were dropped last season.

To use unique characterful lists like these you have to go to the Campaign weekends like DarkStars which seem to be becoming more popular. I have to admit, they are starting to look like a mighty interesting idea, and i may try attending one next year to see how they work. I believe Forge-world only models are legal in some of them too, so it'd be an excuse to dust off the ork bomma i have lying around and get gaming.

As for the GT's, the dropping of the campaign books is, as far as i can tell, an attempt to streamline the amount of literature potential tournamenteers need to familiarise themselves with. It's following the fantasy system, and is in response to Jervis' WD article where he explained what they were doing with new codexes and what was legal.

As for the Eldar dex, it the OP seems to suggest that the designers were a little surprised at the backlash in the 05/06 final to the 1400 point seer coincils, and decided to drop the whole craftworld codex and wait for the Updated Eldar dex for the 06/07 season final. It's only one weekend that you have to do without it, admittedly, but it does torpedo the plans of those players who only own a craftworld list.
It does seem like a little bit of a drastic measure on the part of the organisers, but at the end of the day there's very little we can do about it now.

I'm just expecting a whole load of IW and mech tau now armies, as the power gamers resort to the only remaining options. And it's got me looking at the number of lascannons in my army. But i'm goin for a good time more than anything else. If i bomb at the heats, at least i'll be safe in the knowledge that next year i can break out my precious precious orks again. And then all will cower before me... :D

setekhite
09-05-2006, 18:18
Nope no chapter approved lists/units are allowed.

Interesting, given that in the 2004-5 GT writeup they made a point of emphasising the presence of Kroot and Feral Ork armies in the finals (they didn't do very well, but they were there).

I guess this is simply formalising the GTs as the domain of the powergamer. Fair enough, I suppose, they're at least being open about it and providing an alternative in the shape of the campaign weekends. Half the fun at those is watching someone's carefully constructed killer army coming apart because of scenario conditions...

Orbital
09-05-2006, 19:48
(please pardon me for cross-posting from this thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34993))

There are two things at play right now which have inspired this decision from GW.

The Eldar and Ork codices are both likely to be released before or during the tournament season. When they are, GW doesn't want people playing both old and new rules at the same time, and it's better to kill the old rules before the season starts than to do it in the middle. Seriously: Would you rather find out that your list isn't legal for tournaments before or after you buy the models and paint them?

There are some sub-lists which won't likely see new revisions before the tournament season is over (I'm thinking LatD, 13th Company). Not all lists are made with tournaments in mind and they don't receive the playtesting that the main codex does, thus leaving loopholes through which ******s can make tournaments stupid (20+ man Seer Council, anyone?). There may be supplements or White Dwarf articles to update these lists for tournaments, but they are still perfectly legal for non-tournament play. Disqualifying a list for tournaments is NOT the same as "sending them the way of Squats". Tournament play is a small slice of the overall 40k hobby and community... so don't panic.

geoffkemp
10-05-2006, 07:42
TBH, This just adds more fuel to my fire not to attend GTs. An Ideal situation for me would be to kill GTs altogether, I know a bit extreme, but I feel that the whole "competative tourenment" idea goes against the ideals and spirit of 40k.

I really do hope that they can be used for the Dark Stars Events still however.

cookiescrumble
10-05-2006, 08:18
You do know that most tournaments will not allow these lists aswell. They make theirs using the GT pack as the basis.

setekhite
10-05-2006, 18:01
[i]Not all lists are made with tournaments in mind and they don't receive the playtesting that the main codex does, thus leaving loopholes through which ******s can make tournaments stupid (20+ man Seer Council, anyone?).

I really, really hope that's not the reason. That's what, one list out of eight? Or are 13th Company lists really more unbalanced than, say, Iron Warriors? Perhaps the Chaos codex should be banned since one of its components is so easily abused.

Now, I'm not saying that this is a bad decision, especially if it's the price of retaining Chapter Approved in some form. It's just that the 'unbalanced lists' argument is a very weak one IMO.