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bobthebobish
05-08-2012, 16:29
Hi there several years ago our group got back into WHQ after a prolonged break. We found the core mechanics just as fun as they used to be but the balance scewed from nigh impossible in the beginning to Laughably easy at the higher levels. So we started tinkering with the rules, adding in others house rules, making up our own etc. What follows is a Google Docs link below.

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B_dW6NCrPT61WXdycy1EaUtzVU... (https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B_dW6NCrPT61WXdycy1EaUtzVUk/edit)

We have kept the core mechanics and feel for the most part and built on top of that core. It may not be apparent at first but a ton has changed. Monster tweaks abound as do the encounters themselves. Warriors (only 4 in this release but there are far more that have been tested to 10) have been made stronger and or more interesting to balance out the various types and keep them fun to play all the way to 10.

Due to the high number of small tweaks it is highly recommended that when playing this revision you throw out your knowledge of the old rules and actually read the new ones as even special abilities have changed in some instances.

All official and some unofficial board sections are used in this revision. I will post my dungeon card deck when I get a chance as it is slightly altered for balance and varieties sake.

Anyways let me know what you think and do try it out. We have played 5 campaigns to level 10 and are currently testing out the new Lustria setting so there are reasons behind the the rules choices. Also if yours or anyone's work appears in this that you know of and is not credited let me know! I didn't intend to release this at the beginning but I thought the community would enjoy it and I do want others work to be credited (check the main rules).

New things (such as warriors and settings ie lustria) will be added soon!

Eboli
06-08-2012, 06:59
Looking forward to having a read of your rules.

Cheers and many thanks for sharing!
Eboli

EldritchGamer
06-08-2012, 09:03
There are some interesting changes in here, but so much information to take in!

EldritchGamer
06-08-2012, 13:15
Just to let you know, it seems like the Monster Magic Items link is broken, at least when I try to access it.

Cheers

Purplebeard
06-08-2012, 19:38
Looks really good from the 5 minutes I've just had with it. I'll be coming back to thread.

bobthebobish
07-08-2012, 01:31
Monster Items should be working there doesn't seem to be a problem with it. Its in a folder of its own as the current expansions expand the number of monster tables. As an aside putting those items into a deck of cards speeds up the later levels a ton!

EldritchGamer
07-08-2012, 07:58
Works like a charm now. There must've been daemons chewing cables in the Arkane Interwebs! Loving how you've expanded many of the tables, a lot of these will be finding their way into my games in some form or another.

Daniel36
07-08-2012, 08:51
I am very intrigued by this, but was wondering if it wouldn't be easier if you threw everything you have into only a couple of PDFs. Right now, the rules are in so many different documents, which is obviously very handy for referencing, but it would be awesome if there were also PDFs available with several things combined.

I didn't yet get to encounter tables, but are they themed like the Bestiaries? By the way, the Bestiaries are awesome!!

bobthebobish
07-08-2012, 16:00
I am very intrigued by this, but was wondering if it wouldn't be easier if you threw everything you have into only a couple of PDFs. Right now, the rules are in so many different documents, which is obviously very handy for referencing, but it would be awesome if there were also PDFs available with several things combined.

I didn't yet get to encounter tables, but are they themed like the Bestiaries? By the way, the Bestiaries are awesome!!

Originally I was going to PDF them however I decided to say 'screw it' and skip the extra work of formatting and making it pretty until I could get everything finished. Currently we play the game on laptops with 10 or so tabs open per person to look up monsters, rules and items which works out pretty well. A lot of the rules are split up to help with google docs being ungodly slow on large documents :(

As far as themed monster encounter tables they are coming but not soon (at least not for everything). Added a few new warriors in too lately so have fun with those!

EldritchGamer
08-08-2012, 08:18
@bobthebobish: I PM'd you about some of the tables you use. Did you get a notification?

Cheers

Daniel36
08-08-2012, 10:38
skip the extra work of formatting and making it pretty until I could get everything finished.

A very wise decision. You are completely right.
Well... I am not going to offer any feedback, as I am knee-deep into working on my own game right now, so... but I am going to wish you the best of luck on working it out. Quest is a great game, but creating a house-ruled version is an absolute nightmare... I've tried it myself so I know... Anyways, you guys seem to be going greatly. Perhaps when things are more or less finished I can pitch in with some cool new magic items or something. :)

Daniel36
08-08-2012, 10:39
skip the extra work of formatting and making it pretty until I could get everything finished.

A very wise decision. You are completely right.
Well... I am not going to offer any feedback, as I am knee-deep into working on my own game right now, so... but I am going to wish you the best of luck on working it out. Quest is a great game, but creating a house-ruled version is an absolute nightmare... I've tried it myself so I know... Anyways, you guys seem to be going greatly. Perhaps when things are more or less finished I can pitch in with some cool new magic items or something. :)

EldritchGamer
08-08-2012, 12:08
Perhaps when things are more or less finished I can pitch in with some cool new magic items or something. :)

Do it now! More magic items, more events, more hazards, more equipment! More more more!

Daniel36
08-08-2012, 14:17
Well, alright alright... I will see if I have a bit of time soon. Magic Items are pretty easy to do, I have too much imagination. The issue I have with some Quest items (as well as pretty much all WHFB items) is they are way too unique. I don't want to equip my lowly adventurer with "The One of a Kind Skullsmasher of Urwhag the Great" I want a Skullsmasher Sword, which I may or may not choose in favour of a Fire Blade, again, a relatively commonly named item. But that's just me.

I will see what I can do. I will say this, I really don't have time to photoshop cool item cards, I will merely come up with some names and effects... WHEN I have time.

bobthebobish
08-08-2012, 17:06
Glad people are liking it. If you have items you want added in send em my way for sure!!! The lustria treasures are done but that leaves several other expansions left with no treasure tables yet. Those stupid treasure tables really are my bane (and the adventure books) as they not only take forever to make but testing them for exploits is nigh impossible considering the number of combinations keep growing.

I'll have lustria up as soon as the adventure book is finished. We are currently playing through our first lustria campaign and at level 9 we are attempting to fight Mazdamundi. So far we still have at least one original member with two or three deaths during the campaign so it might need some boosting on the danger end :)

Daemonslave
08-08-2012, 19:36
Whilst we are on the subject...

I'm also doing my own home version of 'Quest, which is pretty much the same rules but making each player have a lot more choice about where he wants to take his Character. As I'm a bit of a Skyrim fan, I'm using a lot of the notions regarding skills improvements, etc. So rather than rolling on a table when the warrior goes up a BL he picks from a group of skills available to him.

For example some skill sets I am working on are criminal, one-handed, two-handed, stealth, intelligence, ...

And the Barbarian, say, would be able to choose from criminal, one-handed, two-handed but not stealth or intelligence. Then, like skyrim, the better skills are further along the skill tree, needing Warriors to work their way to them.

For the Wizard I was thinking that he could exchange his 3 spells learnt for a skill, allowing him to be a Warrior-Wizard, etc.

bobthebobish
08-08-2012, 21:20
That's an interesting take on skill development. Tough to balance but does allow the player much more freedom of play style too! Definitely post that up when you have it ready!

Daemonslave
08-08-2012, 22:32
I'm not sure it would be entirely compatable because I'm stripping each character down to basically just their statline, taking away the Elves dodge and Escape Pinning, for example, (though they would still be skill options) and then allowing the player to choose 3 to start the game so the player can make a number of different Elf characters - ie a stealthy Elf who gets bonuses for attacking from behind to Insane Elves who like to wield two handed Warhammers and getting stuck in!

I'm still not a 100% on all the details yet, but if you want me to post a few of the skillset and skill trees I have come up with so far I don't mind sharing - perhaps you lot can give me some ideas too. :)

EldritchGamer
09-08-2012, 07:37
I'm still not a 100% on all the details yet, but if you want me to post a few of the skillset and skill trees I have come up with so far I don't mind sharing - perhaps you lot can give me some ideas too. :)

Sounds like a new thread! I've always been interested in a slightly more involved way of character development, allowing you to play a certain style of character, like you say.

Daemonslave
09-08-2012, 09:42
Sounds like a new thread! I've always been interested in a slightly more involved way of character development, allowing you to play a certain style of character, like you say.

I've made a start with some of my ideas - will update it as I go - I didn't realise just how much work I had actually put into it!

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?349303-New-Warrior-Skills-and-Development&p=6365848#post6365848

bobthebobish
09-08-2012, 17:07
Added the Chaos Warrior (with variations for 4 gods + unaligned), Dwarven Brewmaster, Imperial Noble, Pit Fighter (untested currently), Ogre(partially tested), and Warrior Priest (currently in testing at level 9). Amazon and Swashbuckler will be out once the Lustria expansion is ready as they do go along well with that.

As far as what's tested and what is not we play test each warrior all the way to level 10 with two goals in mind. They have to be viable and useful all the way up to level 10 (though some like the warrior priest are more of a slow build up) and they must be fun and interesting to play. If you have tried playing an elf to level 10 for instance before you would find that they are 'ok' at level one but quickly outclassed due to not having the items that barbarians and dwarves get. On top of that they don't have many options for what to do each turn other than shoot the bow or swing a weapon. Hopefully these rehashes will make things more fun.

One word of warning though non of these warriors are meant for playing without the revised rules. They will almost all be more powerful than their original counterparts (with exceptions for the wizard for instance who got hit pretty hard by the nerf bat). Have fun and give me some feedback on the chaos warrior in particular he is still expected to take a few tweaks before he's fun and balanced.

bobthebobish
19-08-2012, 21:33
Just a little update (pun intended): The Halfling Thief!

Though currently untested not a lot has changed with this plucky fellow. He is mostly a support character and a major source of cash for the party! Anyways he's up in the warriors section added in with all the others so check it out if you're looking for a fun challenge.

As an aside has anyone actually gotten a chance to test out these rules yet? Was really hoping to get an idea of how others are finding the balance while playing through a campaign. So if anyone has actually played the rules set do let me know any issues you're having!

Daniel36
22-08-2012, 19:31
I was just reading the Empire army book, and if you have it lying around, you should definitely check out the part on Middenheim.
Apparently there are many, many dungeons within Ulricsberg, the mountain on which Middenheim is built.

It could be an amazingly cool source book.

But what I am really thinking is... screw the original rules altogether... Come up with more interesting rules than that. Honestly, Quest would be more fun if movement was skirmish based, like Mordheim, with advancements like what Daemonslave suggests. Stuff like that. But that's just me. Not that I have the inclination to work on such a monstrous project, I already have enough work on my own game... But yeah. (Secretly, I am really hoping that Warhammer Quest will see a re-release... teehee)

bobthebobish
23-08-2012, 23:32
I'm confused are you suggesting a Middenheim expansion? I really don't see how those dungeons would be much different than the others in the old world though I haven't seen the new empire book yet.

As far as throwing out the original rules I don't see why anyone would want to. WHQ was the only game IMHO that even came close to making an interesting and balanced co-op dungeon crawl. Plus the random dungeon generation is great with lots of expandability. Not sure I get what you mean about skirmish movement ala Mordheim either. Played Mordheim too (one of the very few D66 table using games lol).

Anywho just added the Swashbuckler to the warriors. Untested but at least more interesting and usable than the old version for sure. Only 6 adventures away from finishing up the Lustria Expansion (damn you writters block/laziness)!

Jonahmaul
30-08-2012, 11:24
Haven't got the time at the moment but really interested in reading through some of this. I still play Quest quite regularly and some friends and I have been doing very large groups recently (8-10) so have to tinker with the rules to balance them, particularly for larger parties (we got far too good last time because of all the objective room treasure rolls).

bobthebobish
30-08-2012, 23:29
Haven't got the time at the moment but really interested in reading through some of this. I still play Quest quite regularly and some friends and I have been doing very large groups recently (8-10) so have to tinker with the rules to balance them, particularly for larger parties (we got far too good last time because of all the objective room treasure rolls).


yikes 8-10? Through party makeup and dumb luck we've ended up with that many allies but not full fledged warriors! That has to be a nightmare to try and find a challenge with. It's in very early planning stages but I'm also working on a evil quest expansion that not only can you play as the bad guys and build a lair but play against another human controlled party as well hopefully so stay tuned for that. Now if only my dog would finish up the Lustria adventures so I don't have to.... I swear that part really is nearly done!

Jonahmaul
31-08-2012, 09:04
We just double the monsters to make it tougher. Although we got so ridiculously hard we did manage to out a Bloodthirster when we were level six! Although we didn't double down on that! I'll be really interested to see what you come up with Lustria wise as I have a Lizarman army so have said I'll try to bash up some rules for LM enemies (haven't thought about doing any themed adventures yet though, concerned about how much time it will take!).