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Austinitor
15-11-2012, 19:46
What I mean to say is, I hope they make these (especially the bunkers) a purchasable Fortification.

shaso_iceborn
15-11-2012, 20:03
What I mean to say is, I hope they make these (especially the bunkers) a purchasable Fortification.

Simply look at the Imperial sector and then at separate 40k ruined building terrain for the logical answer, However it is rumoured that they will individually sold later as well.

Gungo
15-11-2012, 21:21
They are going to be released in some form again. They are plastic kit, which means the mold is still around. They sold out in like 2 days of presale and they are not even a collectors item. They havent even been released yet and most FLGS couldnt even order enough to fill demand or stock any. I am actually surprised if they dont do another run of these. Its GW they are looking to make a profit after all. My guess since this year was a decent year for them. I bet we will see seperate kits released in January at slightly more then the already overpriced $160 they were charging if you bought the same amount of all 3 kits. Its kinda rediculous to think after seeing the price but this preorder kit sold out faster then any other november preorder. Sad part is the only reason it prolly was listed at 160 is they want to sell each individual kit from 29.99-39.99. That seems to be thier marketing departments ideal price point for individual terrain kits.

The Dude
16-11-2012, 00:31
Simply look at the Imperial sector and then at separate 40k ruined building terrain for the logical answer, However it is rumoured that they will individually sold later as well.

That's not what he meant ;)

He was talking about wanting a Terrain Datasheet for it, as per the back of the MRB.

shaso_iceborn
16-11-2012, 01:51
That's not what he meant ;)

He was talking about wanting a Terrain Datasheet for it, as per the back of the MRB.

Whoops, with everyone talking about purchasing the product around here (where I was at) I misinterpreted that.

Ulrig
16-11-2012, 02:07
Possibly, though in this case it's not quite like the various dice and bags that are made by an outside company, but possibly something that they don't plan to keep in stock (so there's 'X' amount of factory and warehouse space dedicated to 'large terrain' and it cycles between Imperial trenchlines, chaos warp rifts, webway gates, area denial nodes, reclaimation pools etc - a bit like the wierd Disney Vault thing they used to do).

With the plastic range getting larger and larger, and the kits themselves getting bigger and bigger, I can definitely see them having warehousing issues, especially when just-in-time manufacturing isn't going to be as easy for them as other companies. Wouldn't be suprised either way really - that it comes out in smaller sets later on or whether it stays part of the christmas terrain megadeal range.

I work in "just-in-time manufacturing" and I highly doubt they follow they follow this manufacturing model. It just would not make sense. Logistically they would have little issue storing and moving their product because of the small size.
This type of manufacturing is incredibly hard to pull off, even for us...we carry 2-3 days inventory which is still not even considered "real" just time time manufacturing by the companies that do it for real.

Its incredibly hard to streamline your process with no downtime, to have materials come in, go through injection molding->quality->packaging->shipping in a steady flow.

LordBest
16-11-2012, 02:13
My Wall of Martyrs just arrived, on the back of the box there are pictures of the three individual set boxes.

Ulrig
16-11-2012, 02:50
My Wall of Martyrs just arrived, on the back of the box there are pictures of the three individual set boxes.


I bet the guys bidding $250+ are pissing themselves.

The Dude
16-11-2012, 03:22
My Wall of Martyrs just arrived, on the back of the box there are pictures of the three individual set boxes.

That settles that then :p

pricetb
16-11-2012, 04:07
Yep, got mine today also. They'll be released separately. The set is gorgeous btw. And quite large. The set is made up of 6 different sets of the separate sets. One bunker, two defense emplacements, and three defense lines.

Brother Axel
16-11-2012, 13:17
Hi

if you check out the advance orders on the GW Uk homepage the 3 indvidual sets are up (release date December 1st). Also a campaign book seems to have slipped in under the radar as well

cheers
Brother Axel

Binky
16-11-2012, 14:23
So a 31 saving on the box set then, not bad.

Austinitor
16-11-2012, 14:36
@The Dude has the right of my query.

I'm looking forward to picking mine up on Sunday.

Austinitor
16-11-2012, 14:48
Also a campaign book seems to have slipped in under the radar as wellI take it this may be the December Surprise from the annual report?

Darnok
16-11-2012, 15:16
I take it this may be the December Surprise from the annual report?

I doubt it. Not that impressive, and 40K only.

Thorien
16-11-2012, 16:24
I doubt it. Not that impressive, and 40K only.

and this is November 15th, not December.

Kijamon
16-11-2012, 17:13
Quite the saving on buying the individual parts. Would still have liked another bunker in there but you can't complain about the saving over the individual pieces.

Brother Jones
17-11-2012, 06:10
The Imperial fortification manual on trench systems

1. Form your steel frame work as described in this manual
2. Place barbed wire, sandbags and bunkers in key positions
3. Execute approximately 100 guardsmen and leave them to rot - this will fortify your position more.

anselminus
17-11-2012, 13:22
little too skull but really nice terrain for 40k

salamandercaptain
18-11-2012, 13:00
Got mine yesterday photos about to go into Plog (link in sig)
really impressed with the quality of the casting, needed very little cleaning.

iMHO a great buy.

brother Jones has the best quote though.

Aryllon
18-11-2012, 16:24
Wait, whoa, I just saw your plog - the decorative imperial bits (i.e. the big aquilas) are separate?!

That makes this so easy to convert for other armies (I'm primarily thinking Orks & CSM). Value just went up enough to make me order it. Ta!

Edit: Slightly bummed that the big box is unavailable already, damn thing only got released yesterday! :(

Lars Porsenna
18-11-2012, 16:45
Wait, whoa, I just saw your plog - the decorative imperial bits (i.e. the big aquilas) are separate?!

That makes this so easy to convert for other armies (I'm primarily thinking Orks & CSM). Value just went up enough to make me order it. Ta!


Of just leave off completely so it can be used for multiple races...

Damon.

salamandercaptain
18-11-2012, 18:29
Wait, whoa, I just saw your plog - the decorative imperial bits (i.e. the big aquilas) are separate?!
! :(

Yep, and the plastic is really thick so I think dremmeling away the 100 dead cadians would be easy to if you were so minded.

Just spray painted the lot, working moderately hard, but chatting it took about 4 and a half hours to desprue, de mould line and stick together, getting the mould lines of the aquillae was the hard bit the rest is set up so the mould lines are right on the base, good sprue planning by GW.

EDIT:
Some other Warseers have requested photos for sizing so I'm copying them here:

157849157850157851157852157853


Note that the defence lines will NOT fit a 60mm base:
157848

Kijamon
18-11-2012, 18:59
Saw the trench set laid out on a small-ish table today, maybe a 3' by 4'. It filled most of the board!

Looking forward to getting mine now.

Kaldanesh
18-11-2012, 19:57
Just started cleaning mine up today. The bunker is really nice and goes together fairly easily. The amount you get is pretty impressive. Footprint fills most of a 4x4 table! The way the sprues are laid out is very smart making the cleaning very easy as stated previously. Loving this kit so far!

ResidentSteve
18-11-2012, 21:49
Even though the big box is a 'while stocks last' occurrence, it seems that GW have produced a considerable volume if GW Derby was anything to go by!

Beppo1234
19-11-2012, 11:01
Note that the defence lines will NOT fit a 60mm base:
157848

what is the exact length of this piece from end to end, as iit appears in this pic, in metric/centimetres?

Karak Norn Clansman
19-11-2012, 12:20
Gorgeous, I think I'll get a little emplacement to start with. I've always wanted trench warfare in 40k, and this is the best thing next to a fully modelled table with sunken trench lines zigzagging between shell craters all over the place.

For those who don't want the Cadian corpses, just glue sand, gravel and rubble all over them and you'll have a nice, thick earthwork wall on the outside of the fortification. If you don't mind a little vegetation, any especially protruding bits can probably be covered with little bushes or static grass.

To the designers over at GW, I'll grant them that this is the best use for Cadian soldiers. Please bring us plastic greatcoats instead! ;)

eldargal
19-11-2012, 12:54
There are a couple of alternate paint scheme pictures up on the GW bunker (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2731040a_99120199028_ImperialBunker03_873x627.jpg ) and emplacement (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2731025a_99120199027_ImperialEmplacement03_873x62 7.jpg) pages showing the dead Cadians painted more like stonework or something and it looks quite a lot improved. I could imagine the Imperium taking the Roman legion route and keeping its armies occupied, but less viticulture and road building and more engraving skulls and whatnot on everything in sight.:rolleyes:

Toadius80
19-11-2012, 13:42
That would make sense as often when a guardsmen's service is up they are retired to recently captured worlds so knowing a trade would be handy. Just like the Romans.

On topic. It does look better with stone dead than actual dead.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Beppo1234
19-11-2012, 22:38
That would make sense as often when a guardsmen's service is up they are retired to recently captured worlds so knowing a trade would be handy. Just like the Romans.

On topic. It does look better with stone dead than actual dead.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

it's just muddy, not stone work. Just to chime in.

As much as it's a little overkill on the corpses, I think the defense line would look quite plain if it was just plain wall, with nothing in front.

I'll be picking up a couple or a few of the wall sections in the future. I would totally pick up a couple bunkers too, but I don't like how they are not able to be assembled with the lower section on the right or left. I'd use two bunkers as a gateway, but I have a big thing about symmetry. Too bad really, as it's a great model, and could have used a bit of self contained variability, like the the other parts of the set.

The Fortress of redemption had this issue too for me. Just a little more thought put into variability of build, and it would have been really pimp, more than the basic only being able to be assembled in 1 way.

Nezalhualixtlan
20-11-2012, 01:12
I really like this piece, the detail level on it is really fantastic. I just wish they had released more of them before going down to the more expensive individual pieces, I managed to get my hands on one of them, but I really wanted two just to have a more extensive trench works. I'm not sure that I want to purchase them individually, so I might wait and see if they do what they did with the Imperial Strongpoint and re-release the set of them. Or maybe not, I don't know, maybe I will pick up a few pieces individually, I would kind of like to have a couple more bunkers to work into the set. We'll see.

Clang
20-11-2012, 05:49
Covering the dead Cadians with dead from another race is another option - dead Tyranids would look particularly good, especially for any Starship Troopers fans :)

Shibboleth
20-11-2012, 07:56
I don't like how they are not able to be assembled with the lower section on the right or left.... I have a big thing about symmetry.

Yep, same here. That bugs the crap out of me.

Austinitor
20-11-2012, 14:18
Snipped out and built mine last night. REALLY looking forward to seeing what the options for fielding it will be.

Shinigami
20-11-2012, 17:05
I think it would be easy peasy to cut the bunker up a bit and rearange it, model saw it and plasticglue melts it together so you wont see much marks on it,

I have a box waiting for me in the FLGS for me and i shall definetly pick up another bunker atleast, i also have a thing bout symmetry, and hmm ill have to look in to getting me some heaps of gaunts, thats a stellar idea!

cant wait to get cracking on it, stupid bussy work and life and stuff...

Beppo1234
21-11-2012, 06:18
hope you guys who got the big box log your build and paint of it in the project logs

Shinigami
22-11-2012, 17:18
Anyone gotten their hands yet on this months WD realease yet? Are there rules for the Wall of Martyrs in there?

Aryllon
23-11-2012, 16:07
Digital version came out Friday evening last time - if it does again I'll post back.
But bear in mind this is Hobbit month so they might keep a lid on it until the early hours.

salamandercaptain
23-11-2012, 20:29
Got my digital version.
no rule for WoM I'm afraid. It's not a great 40k month either.

Sc

Krucifus
30-11-2012, 12:07
I'd imagine it'll be in the Crusade of Fire book. It should have been in White Dwarf, don't get me wrong there, but I can see them shoving it in the Campaign instead.

Starchild
30-11-2012, 12:46
I'd imagine it'll be in the Crusade of Fire book. It should have been in White Dwarf, don't get me wrong there, but I can see them shoving it in the Campaign instead.Aye, but what's this bit about Crusade of Fire being limited edition? :wtf: (if indeed we're getting any rules at all)

Major fail, GW. Including one simple page of fortification rules for the Wall in last month's WD would have boosted sales of the kits. Not everyone can afford an expensive campaign book just to get the rules. :(

Luckily the 3rd edition rulebook has attacker-defender scenarios that would be perfect for the Wall of Martyrs... but those are becoming scarce.

The Dude
30-11-2012, 12:57
Hold on there champ. He said he could see it, not it was for sure happening.

I'm not even sure why people are so hardcore for them having rules. The things that currently have rules are things that have either weapons or other special rules (Skyshield) which can be used for whomever is controlling the terrain at the time.

The Wall Of Martyrs has no weapons and couldn't possibly have any rules that help whomever is controlling it beyond the standard rules for walls and small buildings.

Shinigami
30-11-2012, 13:20
wel the aegis defence line doesnt have guns or special rules as standard also,

it is just handy to be able to place your own cover, just the same with the wall of martyrs, i would want to be able to place it where and when i want as part of my army, not have to rely on my opponent allowing them to be on the table or where they are not even used by myself, thats where the club scenery is for :p

i just want to put platoons of guard entrenched on the table! :D

Binky
30-11-2012, 14:04
Aren't the rules in the main 40k rule book? Don't have it on hand but I thought it included rules for standard fortifications such as bunkers and trenches, including costs etc. for including them as fortifications in your army list?

prowla
30-11-2012, 14:05
Covering the dead Cadians with dead from another race is another option - dead Tyranids would look particularly good, especially for any Starship Troopers fans :)

Although I was thinking that troopers would like to remove those corpses ASAP - nothing like a whiff of a bunch of corpses rotting 2 feet away your nose to start your morning, not to mention all the insects and other things it attracts :p

They could wash the corpses with acid but that wouldn't be too pleasant, not to mention a bit impractical.. Oh! Maybe they use corpse-eating maggots to clean the corpses down to bone, then those maggots get collected into traps and ground to paste to be used as a protein source.. Corpse-starch anyone? :p

Starchild
30-11-2012, 17:36
Hold on there champ. He said he could see it, not it was for sure happening.

I'm not even sure why people are so hardcore for them having rules. The things that currently have rules are things that have either weapons or other special rules (Skyshield) which can be used for whomever is controlling the terrain at the time.

The Wall Of Martyrs has no weapons and couldn't possibly have any rules that help whomever is controlling it beyond the standard rules for walls and small buildings.Yeah, I noticed that bit. :o

My point on being a major fail still stands. Space Marine players will passively discourage it's use (like they did perhaps unconsciously with Cities of Death) because the Wall is a huge benefit to non-MEQ armies.

Without legitmate fortification rules for including the Wall in standard games (i.e. point costs per bunker, wall, emplacement, etc.), many of these sets will be unused-- based on the vocal protests of players who will feel disadvantaged when this terrain is in or near their opponents' deployment zones.

In the absence of fortifications I can see the Walls being used a lot in Planetstrike games, but we all know how popular those are (even less than Cities of Death from my experience).

IcedCrow
30-11-2012, 18:02
Speak for yourself ;) it depends on the type of group I suppose.

Lars Porsenna
30-11-2012, 18:28
They could wash the corpses with acid but that wouldn't be too pleasant, not to mention a bit impractical.. Oh! Maybe they use corpse-eating maggots to clean the corpses down to bone, then those maggots get collected into traps and ground to paste to be used as a protein source.. Corpse-starch anyone? :p

Why go through the trouble? Just collect the bodies and process them instead: "Sarge! Private Jenkins just was sniped!" "At ease, private! Take the corpse down to basecamp for processing. Getting towards dinner..."

Damon.

Spider-pope
30-11-2012, 19:18
Speak for yourself ;) it depends on the type of group I suppose.

Indeed. And i would like to say anyone in the Liverpool area who wants to give the trenches a spin against my Bling Wing, i am more than willing to do so. Those things are going to look amazing on the tabletop and lead to some brilliant looking battles.

Austinitor
30-11-2012, 19:26
Hold on there champ. He said he could see it, not it was for sure happening.

I'm not even sure why people are so hardcore for them having rules. The things that currently have rules are things that have either weapons or other special rules (Skyshield) which can be used for whomever is controlling the terrain at the time.

The Wall Of Martyrs has no weapons and couldn't possibly have any rules that help whomever is controlling it beyond the standard rules for walls and small buildings.
It mostly just needs the pointcost, but it most certainly could be allowed the same upgrades that two of the four other fortifications are given (despite the guns and antenna array being absent from the set in question).

The Dude
30-11-2012, 23:06
wel the aegis defence line doesnt have guns or special rules as standard also

The Aegis Defence Line can be upgraded to have a Comms Relay, Quad Gun, or Icarus Lascannon.

The Wall of Martyrs doesn't come with any such upgrades.

MagicHat
30-11-2012, 23:33
The Aegis Defence Line can be upgraded to have a Comms Relay, Quad Gun, or Icarus Lascannon.

The Wall of Martyrs doesn't come with any such upgrades.

That is not what he said though. You first buy the standard defence line, then you can buy the guns or relay; there is little reason not to be able to buy the parts for the wall.
Secondly, the Aegis box doesn't come with the Icarus or comms relay yet can select them, the Bastion doesn't come with the Quad gun yet can select it.

Starchild
01-12-2012, 01:24
As long as the Wall motivates tournament organizers to actually build terrain (:eek:) the kits may be useful after all. These appear to be far easier to assemble then the Cities of Death ruins, which can be quite intimidating (and time consuming) to put together.

Other than that, like I said, many Wall kits will just take up precious shelf space at LGSs (at least in the US... I know the GW terrain kits sell far better in Europe).

The Dude
01-12-2012, 02:14
That is not what he said though. You first buy the standard defence line, then you can buy the guns or relay; there is little reason not to be able to buy the parts for the wall.
Secondly, the Aegis box doesn't come with the Icarus or comms relay yet can select them, the Bastion doesn't come with the Quad gun yet can select it.

The kits come with one of the options, and so need rules for at least that option. Because the rules were being written to cover box contents, they may as well add some more options.

All of the box contents for the WOM are covered by the standard terrain rules. When and if GW give it specific rules, it may end up doing something else. Until then, it's just a bunch of walls and a small building.

KarlPedder
01-12-2012, 05:59
That is not what he said though. You first buy the standard defence line, then you can buy the guns or relay; there is little reason not to be able to buy the parts for the wall.
Secondly, the Aegis box doesn't come with the Icarus or comms relay yet can select them, the Bastion doesn't come with the Quad gun yet can select it.



The kits come with one of the options, and so need rules for at least that option. Because the rules were being written to cover box contents, they may as well add some more options.

All of the box contents for the WOM are covered by the standard terrain rules. When and if GW give it specific rules, it may end up doing something else. Until then, it's just a bunch of walls and a small building.

Actually I'd say that the options to include the the Icarus and Comm Relay with the Aegis Line and the Quad Gunn with the Bastion is that they are all interchangable with any being able to be placed in the freestanding box included in both kits and the circular depression in the Bastion. Not to mention that the two kits are still available on GW online stores bundled and the initial black box release had them bundled.

What I question is how do folks who think it should get rules think it should be handled? Every other Fortification has covered the contents of a single kit two of the MoW kits on their own are as The Dude states are little more than terrain which unless your very strategic with the terrain placement you could essentially get for free. The MoW bunker based on whats is in the kit is no different it's perhaps only saving grace is it at least seems to have a port designed to fit the upgrades from other kits which it doesn't include any of.... But more the issue IMO is if they were each treated as seperate entries then by the rules they would need to be 3" away from each other which would only be relevant in multiple FOC games anyway..... Having a Fortification unit entry that tries to encompesses multiple modular kits seems like it ould get messy.

Aryllon
01-12-2012, 08:35
Well, I got lucky. But that's beside the point (hah) - wanted to buy it, sold out online, but I found the 'discount' big box set in the local GW yesterday! Woohoo, shall paint a couple of sections today!

MagicHat
01-12-2012, 14:35
Actually I'd say that the options to include the the Icarus and Comm Relay with the Aegis Line and the Quad Gunn with the Bastion is that they are all interchangable with any being able to be placed in the freestanding box included in both kits and the circular depression in the Bastion. Not to mention that the two kits are still available on GW online stores bundled and the initial black box release had them bundled.

What I question is how do folks who think it should get rules think it should be handled? Every other Fortification has covered the contents of a single kit two of the MoW kits on their own are as The Dude states are little more than terrain which unless your very strategic with the terrain placement you could essentially get for free. The MoW bunker based on whats is in the kit is no different it's perhaps only saving grace is it at least seems to have a port designed to fit the upgrades from other kits which it doesn't include any of.... But more the issue IMO is if they were each treated as seperate entries then by the rules they would need to be 3" away from each other which would only be relevant in multiple FOC games anyway..... Having a Fortification unit entry that tries to encompesses multiple modular kits seems like it ould get messy.

You can currently buy a wall and a medium building.

Wall of Martyrs: A Wall of Martyrs may consist of the following:
0-1 Bunker for XX points.
0-3 Defence Emplacements for XX points.
0-3 Defense Lines for XX points.
Every piece must be connected together.

Maxis Lithium
01-12-2012, 15:11
there's a receptacle on top of the bunker that would fit a quad gun or Icarus Lascannon nicely, so I suspect WHEN we get rules for the wall-o-martyrs, it'll have the option to add those guns to the bunker.

Austinitor
01-12-2012, 18:40
Whether or not there are new/special rules or upgrade options, it is still necessary for there to be a pointcost to take this as a Fortification (with the setup and boosted armo[u]r connotations that entails)
Like it or not, Fortifications are now a part of the core game. I personally do like them, as they contribute some of the feel of PC RTS games (that wargames inspired); I see the influences coming sort of "full circle" in that regard, and I think that is a good thing.

Starchild
01-12-2012, 20:37
@Austinator: I agree, but GW is really dropping the ball if they don't plan on releasing Fortification rules for the Wall. It just makes no sense that they haven't appeared in WD by now, when last month would have been the perfect time. I'd certainly consider buying a set if I could use it as a Fortification like the Bastion or the Fortress of Redemption.

It's clearly designed to be placed in one player's deployment zone, not something for the middle of the board to be fought over. So... whatever... <shrugs> :(

Based on past precedent I won't be shocked if the Wall rules appear in an iPad-only format at some point, but that would be better than nothing.

ogretyrant
01-12-2012, 21:02
I could see,them realising a fortification supplement with rules for all sorts of fortifications for all the races.... And charging 25 quid for it lol!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

IcedCrow
02-12-2012, 02:40
I dont' see why they need rules when... they already have rules.

Trenches are already in the core rulebook and give a 4+ cover save. Why do you need special rules for that? They already exist. The piece is a scenery piece much like the woods, city buildings, tree with buried rhino, etc, pieces are. You don't need special rules for those? Why would you need special rules for a trench which already has a rule? And a bunker whose rules also already exist?

Toadius80
02-12-2012, 06:00
Its not that they need there own special rules, they just need a points cost so they can get used.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

MajorWesJanson
02-12-2012, 06:06
I dont' see why they need rules when... they already have rules.

Trenches are already in the core rulebook and give a 4+ cover save. Why do you need special rules for that? They already exist. The piece is a scenery piece much like the woods, city buildings, tree with buried rhino, etc, pieces are. You don't need special rules for those? Why would you need special rules for a trench which already has a rule? And a bunker whose rules also already exist?

Because fortifications like trenches are rarely used in non-scenario or campaign games. Giving them a point cost as fortifications makes them far easier to use in pickup games. Not "Hey random player I just met, we ought to do an attacker/defender scenario with my guard in these trenches and you trying to take the headquarters bunker, and I have these house rules for the scenario. I just wanted to play a quick Killpoints game." More of "2000 points, I spent 150 of mine on this trenchline I get to set up before we deploy the rest of the terrain. Cool, I have an Aegis line and gun for 100. Trade lists to see?"

Starchild
02-12-2012, 06:36
@MajorWes: You said it far better than me! Convincing opponents to allow the use of the Wall without Fortifications rules or Planetstrike games is going to be an uphill battle.

IcedCrow
02-12-2012, 06:53
Im very glad then for the group of guys i play with. There is zero struggle to use this kit.

I suppose next we should have points costs for hills, trees, roads, and obstacles? You know, in case someone feels cheated by the terrain setup?

Its a scenery box just like the cityfight buildings are. You shouldnt need points values to set up a table... If the people you play with are that concerned that there is a trench on the table and this is going to screw them over, you may look at finding a new group.

I dont know anyone who *doesnt* want to play with this kit.

The Dude
02-12-2012, 22:16
I'm not saying they wouldn't be better or more useful with special fortification rules, just pointing out that those who seem to be claiming it it useless without them are incorrect. It can be used with basic rules. Just because you find it difficult to convince an opponent to use it in a casual pickup game doesn't change that.

Also, have you thought the wall could appear somewhere other than one player's deployment zone?

Beppo1234
03-12-2012, 01:02
@Austinator: I agree, but GW is really dropping the ball if they don't plan on releasing Fortification rules for the Wall. It just makes no sense that they haven't appeared in WD by now, when last month would have been the perfect time. I'd certainly consider buying a set if I could use it as a Fortification like the Bastion or the Fortress of Redemption.

It's clearly designed to be placed in one player's deployment zone, not something for the middle of the board to be fought over. So... whatever... <shrugs> :(

Based on past precedent I won't be shocked if the Wall rules appear in an iPad-only format at some point, but that would be better than nothing.

I think rules will follow the proper release of the model (ie. not the limited big box). Once all the individual mass production kits are on the shelves, rules will follow.

Beppo1234
03-12-2012, 01:04
Also, have you thought the wall could appear somewhere other than one player's deployment zone?

I'd assume here, that if the wall were in the deployment zone, then one would have to pay for it in points. But if it's a piece of no man's land scenery, for anyone to take advantage of, then free.

The Dude
03-12-2012, 01:56
I'd assume here, that if the wall were in the deployment zone, then one would have to pay for it in points. But if it's a piece of no man's land scenery, for anyone to take advantage of, then free.

You'll note that even paid-for fortification terrain can be used by anyone (except Tyranids can't use mounted weapons), so that doesn't really make a difference. One palyer is just paying for the ability to be in the terrain in Turn 1.

Yes, the wall could appear in no-man's-land as a feature both sides are trying to take and hold.

It could also appear as a line bisecting the field, representing one side having breached the defences and attempting to roll the defenders back along their own lines.

Hell, both sides could get one and engage in proper WWI style trench warfare. That's fair, right?

:):yes:

KarlPedder
03-12-2012, 02:20
You'll note that even paid-for fortification terrain can be used by anyone (except Tyranids can't use mounted weapons), so that doesn't really make a difference. One palyer is just paying for the ability to be in the terrain in Turn 1. :):yes:

And as I tried to point out in my last post with any Fortification that doesn't provide special rules not covered by general terrain rules yo don't technically have to pay depending on the terrain available to you.

See I don't know about you guys but tables I play on potentially have barricades set up all over the place so I can't see why I would pay 50pts just so I could be 100% sure it got placed in exactly the place i wanted it....I mean what does it have over a normal barricade if you don't buy any upgrades the +1 to gtg? Don't know that is worth 50pts.....

The Dude
03-12-2012, 03:07
And as I tried to point out in my last post with any Fortification that doesn't provide special rules not covered by general terrain rules yo don't technically have to pay depending on the terrain available to you.

See I don't know about you guys but tables I play on potentially have barricades set up all over the place so I can't see why I would pay 50pts just so I could be 100% sure it got placed in exactly the place i wanted it....I mean what does it have over a normal barricade if you don't buy any upgrades the +1 to gtg? Don't know that is worth 50pts.....

Indeed. Again, I don't know why this is such an issue for so many people. Even pick-up games shouldn't be that hard to organise using it.

Darnok
03-12-2012, 08:30
Moving this to 40K General...


Darnok [=I=]

Killgore
03-12-2012, 09:00
I dont' see why they need rules when... they already have rules.

Trenches are already in the core rulebook and give a 4+ cover save. Why do you need special rules for that? They already exist. The piece is a scenery piece much like the woods, city buildings, tree with buried rhino, etc, pieces are. You don't need special rules for those? Why would you need special rules for a trench which already has a rule? And a bunker whose rules also already exist?


The only difference between a GW trench and a Building ruin would be that in most cases the building would infact be better for the defender! Most models would be on higher ground making assaults harder and you could have better line of sight (for both you and the enemy)

I guess GW Trenches are the new 'cool' toy so most gamers will fight over who wants to handycap themselves.