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GomezAddams
19-11-2012, 15:49
Pretty simple really. I've seen conversions of the various GW rule sets into other systems, I was wondering if anyone had ever done it with warhammer quest as it seems ripe for it.

Nymie_the_Pooh
19-11-2012, 17:57
I've tinkered with the idea a little bit. It's hard to balance Space Marines with many Imperial types if coming at it from a fluff direction. Scouts were easier to fit in with the rest for us. We kept it simple by having the opposition be Orks as I had a bunch on hand in addition to Fantasy Orcs that could fit in. We only had one basic mission, but we were tempted to make that one mission a Space Hulk to start and might have if we had more Tyranids at the time. We've experimented with both the normal WHQ tiles and some larger homemade tiles where the corridors were 6x2 and the rooms were 6x6 for examples. We also used a variety of house rules that had built up over time.

The big difference is pretty much everybody has ranged weapons when compared to Fantasy and it's near impossible for some of the characters to use them. Some of the least agile characters were the ones most likely to be carrying a serious ranged weapon. We hate making more special rules than necessary, but making them better at escaping pinning didn't seem to fit some of those characters. What we ended up doing for a character with a Heavy Bolter was she could give up a turn to set up her gun and then may shoot it even if in base contact with an enemy but could not target enemies where she would have to draw the line through a square with enemy models. This meant she had to shoot at the closest model in any given direction from her. If she was pushed out of her space she would have to set up her gun again if she wanted to keep using it. As I said, we weren't thrilled about making more special rules and weren't exactly happy by this solution, but it was the best fix we found during our brief time messing around with the idea of 40Kwest.

I think the idea would work better with all the characters being along the lines of the Rogue Trader RPG. Our games suffered from trying to include heroes from a Ganger up to a Space Marine. It's really hard to justify why such a group is constantly adventuring together and the power disparity was quite huge. If I were to do it again I would most likely narrow the band on the types of heroes available for play, or make some heroes start at a higher level and if they are included then level up the other heroes to meet them.

Purplebeard
19-11-2012, 22:03
I'd look at Warhammer Quest, Necromunda (1st Ed) for rules to base it on, and then possibly Space Hulk, Rogue Trader RPG and Inquisitor for ideas.

I would strongly recommend looking at the 40K 2nd Ed rulebooks too. Back in those days, fantasy and 40K stats were in line with each other and 40K was more geared to smaller skirmish games and characters.

The main problem is coming up with a backstory. Pirates raiding Space Hulks would be the easiest one I could think of - and could give you pretty much straight 'space dungeon' type games. You could then make missions for the raiders and give them improved tech, etc instead of magic items. You could do straight dash-for-the-treasure type scenarios (e.g. promising hulk with loads of valuable stuff on board, but teeming with genestealers and a big nasty boss) and more sophisticated campaigns if you wish.

Space Marines could cause big headaches because GW uses them as their 'poster' race, and the stories about them are jam-packed full of awesomesauce <sigh>. Seeing as they are clearly SO much better than everybody else at just about everything, I'd probably disallow them as players, or have players start out as weaker initiate types. If you do want to include them, then just remember to include a highly restrictive 'knightly' moral code to reflect their background and curb power-playing. And also remember, a ganger is likely to have skills which a Marine would not (e.g. scavenging, hiding, creeping, might be better at improvising weapons, less moral/ethical restrictions, less armour encumbrance - hence more agility, and I am sure you can think of lots of others).

talion
20-11-2012, 08:04
This is something i may consider doing one day. Some characters to consider would be:

Squats
Witch Hunter
Ratling Sniper
Imperial Assassin
Space Marine Scout
Psyker
Ogryn
Imperial Guard (Varoius : Medic, Engineer)
Eldar

Advanced Space Crusade, Space Hulk, and Necromunda along with the FF games rpg could make up the rules.

Another good game to look at would be Talisman Timescape, I'll have to pull out my copy from the attic. it has treasure, monsters, and characters. including the chainsaw warrior.

gunmonkey
20-11-2012, 11:49
Trying to crowbar the 40k universe into a Warhammer Quest gametype will be damn hard. Over reliance on ranged weapons means a totaly different spawn system, the obvious over powered nature of some races/units as individuals (Space Marines, Eldar Aspect Warriors, Assasin Ordos).

Look at troops like the Imerpial guard Command squad (medic, radio-man, special weapons, commander), Inquisitorial henchemen (Preachers, Missionaries, Crusaders, Death Cult, Scribes, Daemonhosts), the Last Chancers set (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1490651&prodId=prod1150013) for ideas of variety within the universe.

A mix of Necromunda, WHQ and Inquisitor could work, and a whole lot of house ruling :D

bobthebobish
21-11-2012, 05:58
I've been (slowly) working on this. I'm still working on ways to balance the ganger, guardsman, marine issue myself. Been tinkering with a threat level for each character with space marines being higher and things like gangers being lower. IF the total threat for the party is to high you have issues with more frequent and or higher level encounters. However this also poses an issue with the lower threat characters feeling like they don't contribute. Unfortunately I haven't found a good way to balance this yet however work and testing continues.

EldritchGamer
21-11-2012, 07:32
Balancing Marines with 'mortals' seems impossible, and if you think about it, how often do stories from the 40k universe have Marines doing daring missions with mere humans? I'd be tempted to ensure that you have only all-human or all-marine parties. All-marine parties would either have to face a separate Monsters table that is harder than the standard one, or would have to roll a level or two above normal to give them a challenge.

My other main concern when I've thought about this before is also the ranged weapons; unless they are all wearing marine Power Armour, small board sections and features/terrain on the board sections to hide behind may help counter this, but its hard to justify why four guardsmen would survive an encounter with 8 cultists firing autoguns. Unless the strength of the weaponry is 'dumbed down' to balance the game.

This makes me think that an all-marine party (or a mix of marines, inquisitors and other super-types) would make the most sense from a narrative and game balance perspective. Although the Dark Angels have a lovely bit of fluff about Fallen marines scattered through time and space, hiding in society whilst the DAs hunt them down. That would deffo make a good campaign :D

Having said all that... I would LOVE to see this project come to fruition!

Purplebeard
21-11-2012, 10:00
@EldritchGamer - Hmm. I disagree on the Space Marine point. Space Marines are the super-human type, but all of the other races (like Orks, Eldar and Squats) have their own 'super' types too (e.g. Nobs, Ancestor Lords, Aspect Warriors). All 3 have nasty, nasty psykers, and nasty, nasty weaponry. Either start them all as super-types or regress the marine to Scout status to begin with.

You'd have to come up with a good back story though, I agree on that point.

Inquisitors could be a lot of fun. As could Vindicare Assassins. There would be so much scope for secret missions (especially for Inquisitors). Use the party to board and clear the space hulk of genestealers, promise them some loot, then set it to blow up with the rest of the party still onboard, just to be sure you've cleaned up the contamination :evilgrin:

EldritchGamer
21-11-2012, 11:51
Just re-read my last post and I think it sounded overly negative.

@Purplebeard - I take your point, there are other 'super' types for all of the races. My main concern was that 'standard' types would struggle to survive against ranged weaponry all of the time, and that it made little sense to mix 'super types' with standard guardsmen or other rank-and-file squadies.

You could definitely balance psykers, although an imperial psyker who was balanced for a party of marines might be over-powered when compared to the psyker that accompanies some guardsmen or storm troopers.

Unless all the 'normal' types accompanying the marines, assassins etc were of a high level. Having said all that, I've not played the 40k RPGs so there may already be ways for all the players to have fun with such varied PC parties :D

I'm glad its not my problem to wrestle with! And I really want to play a game when the rules are thrashed out. Sign me up for an online game when the dust has settled!

Nymie_the_Pooh
21-11-2012, 12:29
The way the RPG handles it generically speaking is that characters of different types are considered to have different amounts of starting experience that was spent before creation to get them to the point they are at. This make starting Rogue Traders essentially a higher level than starting Inquisitor characters while Space Marines are even higher. If you have a story and want to integrate characters from the different RPGs then you give those extra experience points to the lower characters and they spend them on advances and possibly give them some free equipment as well. To translate how they do it over to Warhammer Quest Space Marines would have a minimum Battle Level and to balance other heroes to them you would raise the battle levels of the other heroes and update them accordingly.

You still have the issue of story, but I've played with some people that don't care overly much about that in dungeon crawl games so how much of an issue that is depends on one's group.

S_A_T_S
21-11-2012, 18:44
If I were doing this, I'd keep the PCs to being a Rogue Trader crew/party, boarding various vessels, stations or planetary settlements. This way you can have a variety of characters making up the rogue traders crew, including aliens, and allow you to fight everthing the 40k universe can throw at you without worry. Rogue Traders work outside the Imperium and are just as likely to fight humans as they are to fight eldar.

Shas'El Tael
23-11-2012, 08:42
If I were doing this, I'd keep the PCs to being a Rogue Trader crew/party, boarding various vessels, stations or planetary settlements. This way you can have a variety of characters making up the rogue traders crew, including aliens, and allow you to fight everthing the 40k universe can throw at you without worry. Rogue Traders work outside the Imperium and are just as likely to fight humans as they are to fight eldar.
I'd second this idea, it certainly opens up a variety of characters and allows a level of freedom within the 40K universe. Second only to Inquisitors, with regard unbridled freedom to do as they please, Rogue Traders would indeed be a good platform - even for Warp Travel from Incident to Incident (read: Dungeons)

Solid point SATS

gunmonkey
23-11-2012, 16:38
Yeah, wandering band of Rogues all the way. Another excuse to model the miniatures for your warband to look like pirates :D

Could still add a Space Marine at a later Battle Level......just have him be one of the Fallen, means he might be more disposed to using non-official gear and your adventures could be dogged by Dark Angel Kill-Teams showing up, and escalating into Deathwing and Interrogator-Chaplins at later Battle Levels.

Inquisitor Kallus
23-11-2012, 17:22
Running an RT crew allows you to have a few heroes who can be backed up by a number of lackeys ( good for good and bad guy fights). You could use scarier stuff (like CSMs) as 'bosses' and have set equipment for the players etc. I like the idea of an RT crew as PCs as if you look at the FFG books there are a number of hero types on board aloong with the captain.

bobthebobish
23-11-2012, 21:18
Just putting forth what rules I have hashed out so far in my attempt at this massive undertaking:

I've given up on having anything but the 'supers' as playable as when going back through WHQ that is fairly close to what happened anyways (that is after all why they can advance to the lord titles per respect to their fantasy counterparts). Currently been testing out rules for the models I have available with inquisition forces as the playable characters. Each group of playable characters can ally with other groups (ie inquisition with marines and guard etc) and missions are rolled from within the groups list of missions so each mission is generated randomly but makes sense for what they would be fighting.

During a mission as you explore the 'dungeon' certain rooms act as spawn points for enemies. When you encounter enemies they spawn at one of the spawn points randomly (usually rooms) and each different type of enemy has a certain set of actions it will try to do (find cover, advance and fire, charge with melee etc). Most of it is play testing decently but I have yet to get to leveling up, buying/finding new equipment etc so lots of work is still needed.

missions, 'treasure' and item purchase lists are tied to your race/type so a dark eldar would not be granted a storm bolter as a requisition reward for completing objectives nor would a inquisition group be sent against inquistion in a mission (except in very very rare cases that would be special missions).

Once I get enough of the rules done to make the game playable to 10 with at least one set of 4 characters I'll make it available like my WHQ revisions. Fluff wise I'm finding it more difficult than quest but lets face it quest cut plenty of corners in the believability area like the chaos warrior just covering himself in chaos armor to 'fool' the party into thinking he was one of the guys! I'm trying not to cut corners THAT much but some fluff elements I suppose have to give way to rules balance at times.

nedius
26-11-2012, 16:13
In one of the pdf battle missions, they had a boarding party one. One of the things they did was to swap the shooting turns around.

So it went

Turn1:
Good guys move
Bad guys shoot
Good guys assault

Bad guys move
Good Guys Shoot
Bad guys assault.


It was an interesting mechanic.

The trickiest thing actually comes down to manouverabilty and size of the board. IT works well in either very confinded (Space Hulk) style, where only one character can shoot at a time most of the time, or a very wide space where there is scope for cover, hiding, moving several characters into play to shoot at multiple targets. Anywhere in the middle and enough characters can shoot at enemies but there is not enough room for those to be out manouvered. I'm struggling with such things in a 'Fallout' inspired warhammer quest-like game.

Purplebeard
04-12-2012, 22:50
You could come up with some sort of turn system with maybe a chance of 'interruption' when your players switch between tasks. For example, say your crewman rushes forward towards cover and then switches to poke his head out and fire, then the enemy could get a chance to interrupt his turn and fire on him first. Of course, if the action is dictated by such a systam, then reloading and weapon jams become serious considerations - and that should add to the fun!

You could tie it to initiative, but maybe it might be better to test on some combination of 'initiative+something' because I is such a rough characteristic.

Catferret
04-12-2012, 23:04
My housemate and I once used Quest as the basis for Resident Evil type stuff. It was fun. Biggest cause of problems was balancing ranged combat. Took a lot of playtesting with stats and skills for the characters, as well as the weapons themselves.