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kaptin_blacksquigg
16-05-2006, 10:52
Has anyone else got a chance to see the new GT rules pack?

No marks for anything except playing games and best painted army.
Not sure if I like it yet.
Also non-random missions!

All very interesting.

#EditL: also no kroot merc list, and take and hold has been re-place with hold untill releaved

minibutmighty
16-05-2006, 11:13
A link would be nice

TheDeadBaron
16-05-2006, 11:22
Here is a link to the page:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/events/diary/default.aspx?event=26

I must say I'm not a fan of the new pack.

They have removed all the scores, such as painting, quiz and sporting and changed the victory points to tournament points.

This means that if a player had 5 masacares and one draw he will score less points than a played who gets 6 minor wins, and to me that just doesnt seem right.

I always viewed the GT as scoring people on all aspects of the hobby, but now it looks to have moved to being one purely on making the most powergame list that doesnt even need to be painted well as that score system is gone.

I know sporting system had its problems but I cant see the justification for removing the others. I think the only good thing I can say about it is that they have changed the mission selection whereby the tournament team randomly select it so that everyone is playing the same one.

TheBaron

Kahadras
16-05-2006, 12:08
They have removed all the scores, such as painting, quiz and sporting and changed the victory points to tournament points.

Hmm very interesting. Not that it hasn't being going that way for the past couple of years. I know some people didn't like the idea of painting, sportsmanship and the quiz as they felt it could hold them back. IMO it's kinda sad as it just sends the message that the sole way to GT is to bring the most competetive army you can. Who cares about the players knowledge of the rules/background or the time he has spent painting his army?

Kahadras

Lardidar
16-05-2006, 12:19
Interesting,

I think the changes are mostly good ones.

I never liked the quiz but it is a shame painting is gone.

The new way of working out tournament points is interesting and could work very well.

kaptin_blacksquigg
16-05-2006, 13:04
Humm, I think I like the new scoring system for generalship, it kind of encourages balanced list that will win most games rather than this that will oblitorate some armies.
I'm also a fan of Judges deciding missions, takes some of the luck of the dice out of it.
But I really think the lack of a quiz is a bit sad.
As for the lack of painting score, I'd say this could be disasterious, no need for unit markings etc, only 3 colour min. I'd say most people will bring solid well painted armies as they always do, but Iwont be supprised if there's a good few WAAC players with bairly painted models and in-distinguishable units.
But we'll see what happens!

Fallen Angel
16-05-2006, 14:00
The thing that caught my eye was the bit about discuss each other models before the game, then look at each others lists after the game and complain to the refs if they've cheated.

Do we even have to write background anymore?! I kind of liked that as i actually enjoyed reading other ppls backgrounds, even if mine was rubbish!!

Not quite sure on the tournament scoring system. Does that mean if you get a minor win by the skin of your teeth in the first round, you've a chance of playing someone who's got a massacre?? To be honest that doesnt feel right but ill give it a chance.

kaptin_blacksquigg
16-05-2006, 14:16
The thing that caught my eye was the bit about discuss each other models before the game, then look at each others lists after the game and complain to the refs if they've cheated.

Didn't notic that bit. Oh dear, always thought the whole inspect the opponents list befor the game was better, especially since there's no points for WISIWIG, sounds a bit abusable. And worst of all if after the game you find your oppoent was cheating, unless it was really bad he loses a point, but you dont get any back. I think I may have to bring my dueling pistols to this years heats!!

Col.Gravis
16-05-2006, 14:21
I'll reserve judgement on the new scoring system until we've seen it in action, personnly I dont think itll do anything to change army compoisition but it will increase the 'must win' attitude in players, hopefully not to the point it ceases to become a fun event.

Besides that the most significant change is army lists not being shown until after the game, I'm not convinced that this is a great idea myself either, it means players have to be more well cautious in game (which in most respects is a good thing) but there are ways it could be abused somewhat, especially from any unsporting individuals, again we'll see I guess.

Otherwise it sounds good, tho missing out on the painting is a blow.

Fallen Angel
16-05-2006, 14:51
I think I may have to bring my dueling pistols to this years heats!!

Hmm i might dig out the old red pain sticks.. Just have to not get spotted by the refs!!

Im worried about this, but not so worried that im not going. Gonna give it a go and reserve any real abuse for it until after the heats!!

Anathema
16-05-2006, 15:13
Didn't notic that bit. Oh dear, always thought the whole inspect the opponents list befor the game was better, especially since there's no points for WISIWIG, sounds a bit abusable.

Don't like this at all. How can you model nebulous things like daemonic essence, speed, furious charge, psychic powers, webway portals, feel no pain, terminator honours, even things like a chaplain being a reclusiarch or master of sanctity? Very abusable. If your opponent claims one thing in the game and you find its wrong afterwards, how the hell can you prove it? Your word against theirs. At least the old way you can see their list at any time, so you can pull people up on things wherether intentional or not. Not good at all IMO.

I think they've tinkered with things that didn't need changing, like painting scores and list revealing. So what if everyone got painting scores, at least everyone had to have fully painted armies and added to the spectacle of the event. I know it made me get my **** in gear. Instead of bringing in Alpha missions (which they could easily do now, even with a victory points system) and making everyone put a bit more variation into their lists.

Col.Gravis
16-05-2006, 15:42
I think I'll pass up on Heat 1 and see what people have to say about it, if fears are realised I think I'll pass on the GT this year personnly, this is just too open to abuse.

Lardidar
16-05-2006, 15:50
How so?

Sorry I just don't get how you could abuse it?

I must be too innocent to even have abuse thoughts :angel:

Rik Valdis
16-05-2006, 17:57
Besides that the most significant change is army lists not being shown until after the game, I'm not convinced that this is a great idea myself either, it means players have to be more well cautious in game (which in most respects is a good thing) but there are ways it could be abused somewhat, especially from any unsporting individuals, again we'll see I guess.

I think this is an excellent change, I think knowing your opponent's list beforehand takes a lot of the skill and judgement out of the game, granted people can lie about their lists but if people are going to cheat then they are going to cheat.

Fallen Angel
16-05-2006, 20:45
Talking about it tonight at vets night, the other thing about not revealing lists is not knowing the points costs of the opponents units. So you dont know which one to bring below half on the last turn etc. I think thats good and more realistic and lends itself to the more experienced players.

Insane Psychopath
16-05-2006, 21:04
@ everone: Some of you lot are a bit worry with stuff like Painting scores. To point out this "MAYBE" like how Tournaments where run a few years back. By that I mean a group of Ref's would go around & make sure everthing was WYSIWYG & all the painting was up to there mark.

In the Scottish Conflict back in 2002 this happen & if you did not meet to there mark then of course you loss the points (well not gain them better to say). I think it might be to do with anyone & everone just mark away with out really looking that the force of there oppent.

So again I think Refs will be walking around & marking/scoring.

IP

Fallen Angel
16-05-2006, 21:32
Problem is theres no mention of painting scores AT ALL in the pack whatsoever.

squigsnok
16-05-2006, 21:56
(cheers for the e-mail IP, but i was waaaaaaaaaay ahead of you :D )

Right, time for me to blather on with my opinion I guess...

I'm divided about this to be honest. For one, i'm not sure I like it being the refs that choose the game as opposed to it being random. I'm not really sure what this acheives or even what it's purpose is. I'm also certainly not happy about them dropping the painting scores and the quiz out. Admittedly, the painting score is open to some manipulation i suppose, but i really liked the quiz bit too. It's another aspect of the hobby that they seem to have dropped for no reason.

I'm also a little dubious that they've dropped points for margins of victory. I for one was happy being mid-table coz it meant all of the beards intent on winning were at least 20 feet away up the other end of the hall. I liked that :D. It also takes some of the pretige out of getting a hard fought massacre compared to scraping a victory. Although i suppose this will be sorted out in the overall net total bit at the end.

I am wondering how they'll sort the placings for each game though. In previous years I've spent alot of time languishing in the mid table area at best, and compared to playing higher up the rankings the opponents were far more layed back. They normally had similar stories of hideous luck and so on. But more importantly you were playing players who would give you a good game, because they were at a similar level to you (supposedly). With the new system there's gonna be a hell of alot of people on "9 points" at the end of day one. How are they going to pair them up? Filter in the VP's total at the end of each game or what?

On the up side i suppose it could encourage people to take somewhat fairer armies. People arent gonna be paranoid that they have to get a massacre in order to get a high placing because a "win" will still allow them to progress. They may be more relaxed and willing to enjoy the game.

I really dont know at the moment, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. I certainly dont agree about them dropping some of the less game-orientated scores like the quiz, painting and background. But there's not alot we can do about it now. If it all goes belly up, we can always switch to the campaign weekends... :D

It's lookin like Heat2 for me (gotta fit it in round uni) so I guess I'll at least have knowledge of how good/bad the system is when it comes to my turn. And at the end of the day Bugmans will still be there (or at least it better be) so not everything has change...

Lavfluris
16-05-2006, 22:07
Although I am presently reading through the Rules Pack, one thing I have noticed is that Codex: Black Templars can not be used. ;)

I'll post my thoughts later on.

Felrathror86
16-05-2006, 22:19
I'd just like to say congrats GW for messing up something that was generally ok to begin with. well done >claps<

I think it's just stupid, i mean come on, with this new system of points for winning, and then avg out the victory points, its rediculous, power gamers are gonna just be even worse now. So it means u can make a rediculous army, paint it in 2 days, and win the tornament just cos u have a big beard.

ok abit ranty i know but its just made me a little peeved, whats the point of the feedback forms at the end of the tornament? And if they dare say "it makes it easier to understand", well i'm sorry but if we can handle remembering 50 gazillion rules and counter rules, abit of maths aint gonna kill us.

>breathes< aaaahhh feel better now, still probably gonna go as well, not gonna enjoy it as much now tho, gggrrr.

Felrathror86
16-05-2006, 22:28
With the new system there's gonna be a hell of alot of people on "9 points" at the end of day one. How are they going to pair them up? Filter in the VP's total at the end of each game or what?

Yup they are, bascailly cos the victory points are gonna be alot more spread out, alot more accurate i guess. Although it does mean we have to say to ppl
"how many points are you on?"
"oh, 7.1783" (meaning a 2 wins, a draw and 1783 victory points avg):confused:

EDIT: Bad spelling and stuff, farrrr to hung over from last night


It's lookin like Heat2 for me (gotta fit it in round uni) so I guess I'll at least have knowledge of how good/bad the system is when it comes to my turn. And at the end of the day Bugmans will still be there (or at least it better be) so not everything has change...

And i will be there with you squigy my friend, although bugmans might dissapear, depends how much we drink on the quest of wanting to forget why we came to this horrible place!! And any of you are welcome to join us, we'll be wearing bugmans bar t-shirts, but be manc's and not actually work there........

Prophaniti
16-05-2006, 22:39
Bah! The changes are nothing to worry about. The new games scoring system makes sense, as did the old one. Painting, sportsman were all scored the same anyway with a few 1-2 point exeptions. Painting and poor sports are now taken care of by the refs. It really isn't going to be that different. I don't think everyone in the 40K community has morphed into a nobber over the last year.

So a bit of controversy, heck I miss the quiz, it was worth 15+ points for me, but I'm still going. Besides it's not like there's ever been a 'perfect' tournament anyway.

Jonathan =I=
17-05-2006, 00:16
Although I am presently reading through the Rules Pack, one thing I have noticed is that Codex: Black Templars can not be used. ;)

I'll post my thoughts later on.
And Tyranids :rolleyes:

Lavfluris
17-05-2006, 00:22
And Tyranids :rolleyes:I hadn't noticed that one. :p

squigsnok
17-05-2006, 00:30
I assume the nid thing is a typo. It has to be doesnt it? I mean, It'll peeve off a fair few gamers if they're disallowed. Especially since they're the gamers who had to start their army 12 months ago to get the hundreds of thousands of models painted... :p

Xavier
17-05-2006, 00:47
The black templars one will be a typo aswell I assume.

syrme
17-05-2006, 08:56
oh dear - the wfb rules pack allows special chrs........ are they completely insane? Kroak on every other table..

page 4 column 1 last paragraph

http://uk.games-workshop.com/tournaments/pdfs/wfb-gt-pack-2006.pdf

Insane Psychopath
17-05-2006, 10:14
Dose anyone know what they mean by:

Tie-breaker = Net Victory Points Score

It is on the scoreing part (both 40k/WFB) with the win, draw, loss. Just there is nothing in the pack about it???

Thanks

IP

Lavfluris
17-05-2006, 10:39
Problem is theres no mention of painting scores AT ALL in the pack whatsoever.Correct, Brian Aderson has said to me in an email that we will not be marked for Sportsmanship or Painting. The reason is that the entrants will already understand the minimum requirements for entry into the 40K GT. Only players who do not meet the minimum requirements need be concerned with their Painting and Sportsmanship, as they are likely to be penalised.



The black templars one will be a typo aswell I assume.Correct, Brian Aderson has also said to me in an email that Codex: Black Templars is a legal army list. I guess Codex: Tyranids falls in the same boat.



Tie-breaker = Net Victory Points ScoreIf at the end of the event, there are a number of players with 18 Tournament Points, the Overall Champion will be determined by individual Victory Points.

Danger Rat
17-05-2006, 11:44
oh dear - the wfb rules pack allows special chrs........ are they completely insane? Kroak on every other table..

page 4 column 1 last paragraph

http://uk.games-workshop.com/tournaments/pdfs/wfb-gt-pack-2006.pdf

Quite possibly.

How do people feel about them using 7th ed rules for wfb as it won't have been out very long at all when the heats come round.

Lardidar
17-05-2006, 12:24
Sorry I just don't get how you could abuse it?

I must be too innocent to even have abuse thoughts :angel:

I have to ask again as I got no replies.

This system seems to make sense to me.

You take your balanced list and get 5 minor victories, someone else takes a power list and massacres 4 people but then meets another power list and gets a minor loss .... you would beat him 15 points to 12. That seems fair to me.

Also if you have a great painted army and win 'Best army' and get 5 minor victories you have 16points and can't be beaten by anyone.

Anathema
17-05-2006, 13:54
Ok, it could be abused by people springing wargear on you that then suddenly isn't in their list at the end. It could be something like a ghosthelm saving a wound on a farseer or something like master-crafted on a daemon weapon, Mutated Hull, adamantine mantle, hit and run, frags, furious charge etc. all the stuff that can't/doesn't have to be wysiwyg. What do you do if someone forgets a trait they have? If its something thats only brought up once, you might not even notice that its not there, I mean how closely are you going to go through your opponents list after a hard fought game? After the game, you can find out that they don't have it, but then what do you do? Its your word against theirs and it can look like sour grapes if you complain when you lose. For me, I'm thinking to take as long as neccesary to go through every single one of my opponents models and ask what wargear they have, like it says you can do, but that doesn't look very sporting does it and I'd rather not have to. far easier to have everything obvious and verifiable.

Lardidar
17-05-2006, 14:09
I disagree,

If your opponent is sad enough to lie about a list then he simply deserves a slap. I would let them have there win and carry on with there sad little lives safe in the knowledge that I don't have to cheat to win a game of toy soldiers.

In fantasy there are magic items that allow you to see hidden items and assasins in units .... before in tournaments those items were pointless as you could just look at your opponents list.

I think the system will work well, I think I may head to heat one now ..... of course I could be wrong and it could be a disaster.

Anathema
17-05-2006, 15:48
I disagree,

If your opponent is sad enough to lie about a list then he simply deserves a slap. I would let them have there win and carry on with there sad little lives safe in the knowledge that I don't have to cheat to win a game of toy soldiers.


Agree wholeheartedly, but we all know there are such people out there who will try this kind of thing and if I'm paying a lot of money to go to such an event I'd rather not come away from a game feeling sour because I know someone cheated but could do nothin about it. At least before you knew what they had and could stop it. While I like the idea behind it that you can't be sure exactly what gear models have, the option is there unless I'm mistaken to ask about all wargear and so find out in a more long winded and quite frankly annoying Inquisition, I think its sadly open to abuse if people quite rightly decide they can't be bothered with the rigmarole of closely examining each model.

Xavier
17-05-2006, 16:40
Correct, Brian Aderson has also said to me in an email that Codex: Black Templars is a legal army list. I guess Codex: Tyranids falls in the same boat.

Kind of a no brainer really, but anyone who needs it in writing can read the GW events forum *shudders*

Lavfluris
17-05-2006, 18:57
Ok, it could be abused by people springing wargear on you that then suddenly isn't in their list at the end.No you know what the pen and paper is for. Writing down what each model has. ;)

Fallen Angel
17-05-2006, 19:16
Thinking about the whole roster thing, if someone wants to be an *******, they're going to be an ******* whatever the rules pack is like. Chumpitude will always find a way sadly.

Sod it, im going to go with a completely open mind, have a laugh, kick some ass, get my ass kicked and spread the cult of flame on a bit more. Oh and drink a lot of beer!!

Lavfluris
17-05-2006, 19:25
Oh and drink a lot of beer!!Dear God no... :(

I'll try and stay out longer this time, honest.

Prophaniti
17-05-2006, 19:27
TBH, the way some people have been going on you'd think it was the end of the world. I'll give my opponents free access to my roster before the game anyway, I don't have anything to hide in my army. Otherwise I don't think the rules changes will make that much difference to the outcome from previous years. I don't think they'll make much difference to how people play the tournament either.


Sod it, im going to go with a completely open mind, have a laugh, kick some ass, get my ass kicked and spread the cult of flame on a bit more. Oh and drink a lot of beer!!

Too right! Except put 'Leamington Steele' in for 'Flame On!'

Fallen Angel
17-05-2006, 19:38
Dear God no... :(

I'll try and stay out longer this time, honest.

haha. We'll see if you can keep up with the drinking machine that is Flame On!!

I dont think anyone is going to get confused with my army......

"so you've got eldar then..."
"yup"
"Those starcannons?"
"yup"
"that it?"
"err....yup"

Felrathror86
17-05-2006, 21:23
Dose anyone know what they mean by:

Tie-breaker = Net Victory Points Score



Yup, basically you'll still write down how many victory points you either won by, or get in total in the missions (probably the first one) and the guys will add it all up and divide it by how many rounds are played, thats how they'll seperate out and decide who will play who in the forth coming rounds.


haha. We'll see if you can keep up with the drinking machine that is Flame On!!

Oh i don't know, you guys seem pretty light when we go to the pub... and there is ALOT of you, one on one i'm not so sure.....

Fallen Angel
17-05-2006, 21:42
Oh i don't know, you guys seem pretty light when we go to the pub... and there is ALOT of you, one on one i'm not so sure.....

Ha!! I'll mention one on one drinking next time i talk to Richard..... hehe. Besides you haven't been to the pub with us for ages...probably a reason.

Bar dropping the quiz (which is always a laugh to see if you beat your mates), i think im liking the changes now. Not seeing the roster makes it so you dont know which squad you want to kill on the last turn etc and makes it more tactical i think. Should be good.

Kodamas
17-05-2006, 22:39
I was going to use my Barbarian horde using BoC rules. Will this be allowed with the count as rules? or shall I just scrap going to the GT?

Echos

Lavfluris
17-05-2006, 22:41
Will this be allowed with the count as rules?Why not send the Events Team an email? Only they can answer for ceratin.

Atrahasis
18-05-2006, 07:55
I was going to use my Barbarian horde using BoC rules. Will this be allowed with the count as rules? or shall I just scrap going to the GT?

I don't think the rule extends that far.

Its intended to allow people who have things like Skinks with Bows use them as skinks with blowpipes/javelins.
If a model has a current viable use then it should only be used for that.

I haven't been briefed on the extent of the rule as yet (I've only just discovered the rulespack, and am quite intrigued as to how it was found given that there are no active links to it on the GW website). As the previous poster says, you're best off e-mailing events directly.

What models do you use for your Barbarian horde?

KingM
18-05-2006, 08:34
Well, using them of BoC is a bit odd as your opponent would generally be thinking that if they are human, then they are toughness three. If it slips their mind during the game that you are using them as Beasts, then they may do things that they wouldn't otherwise have done (e.g charging them with stuff that will struggle to hurt them etc)

The best thing is to count them as something that is close to looking like them . I would say the closest thing for a barbarian in FB is a chaos marauder. That would eliminate most confusion.


I'm using Custodian Guard in the 40k one, but using Daemonhunter rules. All my troops are converted space marines with nemesis rods, so no confusion there. I have a squad of sisters of Silence that I was going to count as =][= stormtroopers, but I may rethink that and use Vostroyans. I don't want a situation where me or my opponent is under the impression that they have power armour or a bolter.

Anathema
18-05-2006, 09:19
Oh i don't know, you guys seem pretty light when we go to the pub... and there is ALOT of you, one on one i'm not so sure.....


Haha, sounds like a challenge! We could do average number of pints, so Neil and Richard don't unfairly skew the figures? :D The great Manchester club drink-off!
What heat are you guys going to, would be good to see you lot again?

Kodamas
18-05-2006, 09:35
I guess I am going to have to ask the events team.

It wouldn't be too hard to remember they are a BoC list. Skirmishing Marauders and frail looking chariots. Marauder horsemen as Centigors and were kin as spawns. Basically the list.

Having said that I do see your point about the Counts as not stretching to a whole army.

Echos

tristessa
18-05-2006, 11:33
I'll still be going. Nothing too hideous in that rules pack.

Atrahasis
18-05-2006, 11:43
Skirmishing Marauders and frail looking chariots.

How do you differentiate between gor and ungor?

Marauders and marauder horsemen are already available in a Beasts army and so I doubt you'll get a positive response to be honest.

Not a definite no, but don't get your hopes up - e-mail events for the final word.

squigsnok
18-05-2006, 14:33
Haha, sounds like a challenge! We could do average number of pints, so Neil and Richard don't unfairly skew the figures? :D The great Manchester club drink-off!
What heat are you guys going to, would be good to see you lot again?

Heat 2 for me, felrathror, and sean. Gotta fit it in round uni and stuff for us. I'm finished at uni now though, so i'll probly be dropping in on vets night again now I'm back in manchester.

Master Jeridian
18-05-2006, 15:35
Can we spare a moment's silence for: Ork Speed Freeks, Ulthwe, Saim-Hann, Alaitoc, Biel Tan, 13th Company, Lost and the Damned, Ulther Strike Force, Black Templars*, Tyranids*.

*A 'so and so said I can' won't cut it.

Now, Si's Guide to the Grand 'Power Armour' Tournament

1) Army- with the removal of any contenders for the cheddar throne IW's is a sure bet. Fear Tau, but little else.

2) Painting- Only 1 person can get only 1pt for Best Army, face it- it isn't gonna be me or you, so why bother. Slap on an undercoat, thick drybrush of boltgun metal. A dab of black and yellow on one shoulder- voila, you get just as high as someone who was silly enough to spend hours painting their army.

3) Army List- Aim to be as confusing as possible, that Lord with the walking stick and helpers, he has Daemonic Speed. That guy with the one blue finger- he has a power weapon. That Rhino- it has mutated hull, but only mention this after a Dev squad worth of heavy bolters has bounced off.

For the final icing on the cake, make you army list the Da Vinci code. Perhaps write it in your native language, if this isn't English.

4) Sportsmanship- You can still get zinged for being a complete jerk. So just be a half-assed jerk. Reply to the opponent's questions in blunt one-word answers, never make eye contact, etc. No need to make the game fun- it is a sport after all.

5) Game Scores- In previous years, your badly painted, confusing IW's army having massacred your poor opponent would then inevitably face of against an equally beardy list with and equally skilled opponent. Not so this year, the system means that that poor guy who scraped a minor win in his last game, will now have to face you. Plus you don't have to risk all for a massacre- if IW's can get massacres easily- think how easy it is to get minor wins.

6) Fluff- Lol, forget about it. This is a sport not roleplay. You don't even have to copy and print the IW's fluff from the GW Website anymore.

7) Special Rules- this hasn't changed from last year, Infiltrate and Deep Strike rather than the 'possible chanceof being allowed' they used to me, are now guaranteed.

8) Remember, your there to win. If you notice your opponent having fun, it's because he thinks he might win- crush this ASAP.

Before I get executed for flaming- this is a Guide only Brother Edwin could be proud off. This is the extreme 'power gamer' view of the GT, but there will be a lot of people following this model- and this new system actively encourages it.

I think you can tell I am not amused by the route the GT is taking.

pompeyladbfp
18-05-2006, 15:42
wps and independants for me, never did like the grand tournaments, good players never won!

looks like ill wait till 2007 :)

please everyone work out an army to face mech tau/eldar starcannon/iw.. thats pretty much all you will see.

:)

Lardidar
18-05-2006, 16:30
Wow are we really all this cynical?

I think we will all have to wait until after heat one to find out how all the changes affect the weekend.

Painting - Just because painting scores are gone should not mean you drybrush the crap out of your mini's .... if you do your a retard who just blew 200 quid on an army and then spoilt it with a crap paintjob when you know you can do loads better.

Army list - WYSIWYG should be enforced strongly with the changes they have made, so I doubt anyone would get away with a blue finger. Also mutated hull is represented by Runes and spikes on the hull of the tank so you should be able to tell before fire heavy bolters at it (I can think of better things to fire heavy bolters at)

Sportsmanship - If an opponent is being a jerk and replying with one word answers the I simply will not ask him any questions.

Game points - I think they will input all results into a spreadsheet by wins and the organise them by victory points to see who plays each other ... so people with 1000 VP's should be matched up and people with 200 VP's will be matched up.

Also lets not forget 5 minor wins and best painted and no one can touch you for overall champ.

Armies - I am happy with Ulthwe being kicked out (although new Codex: Eldar will be used for the final), It is a shame about LatD but maybe one or two people in every 100 played them so its not that bad.

Iron warriors may be a common sight but I would rather play them than Ulthwe any day of the week.

I am thinking about heat 2 this year me and a few friends may be heading down.

Maybe see you there.

EDIT - I realise you were posting as a LEET power gamer and not as yourself, my reply is at the points you bring up and not at you. Don't want to cause any offence :)

Anathema
18-05-2006, 18:16
LOL, excellent Si, good to see the rules pack is really bringing out that deeply hidden cynic in you!

Sadly though, I think the pack gives a lot of leeway for the path of least resistance. I actually got my army painted AND detialed for last year. I'm no genius painter, but it made me make an effort so I could get that "detailed and squad marked" tick. As I've complained before, WYSIWYG becomes a big issue now, and its the nebulous things that will shaft you if you don't interrogate your opponent thoroughly before the game.

geoffkemp
18-05-2006, 20:41
what do you suppose they mean but "non-standard dice" ????

Prophaniti
18-05-2006, 20:55
I think they mean weird ones that you can get, e.g. Weighted dice, 'average dice' with [2,3,3,4,4,5] on the faces, D20 etc. As long as its a normal D6 that your opponent can read clearly you should be OK. Maybe get some ex-casino dice, and a dinner jacket, and a martini, OK too far ;)

Lavfluris
18-05-2006, 22:49
I've come to realise that if the person who has the Best Army achieves a Minor Loss in each of his (or her) games, he (or she) will have 19pts, whereas the rest of us can only hope to get 18pts.

Is it at all worth trying to paint up an army deservant of the Best Army award ourselves, or should we just let the Best Army award go to the Overall Champion every time? ;)

Master Jeridian
18-05-2006, 23:11
Painting - Just because painting scores are gone should not mean you drybrush the crap out of your mini's .... if you do your a retard who just blew 200 quid on an army and then spoilt it with a crap paintjob when you know you can do loads better.


What, like the guy who took a huge Seer Council just to prove a point (that he has money to **** away, and no life)?

Why do better? You can coast through on a sub-par army, you have nothing to lose. Time spent painting your army up, is time that could be spent copying army lists of the net, or finding loopholes in the rules.


Army list - WYSIWYG should be enforced strongly with the changes they have made, so I doubt anyone would get away with a blue finger. Also mutated hull is represented by Runes and spikes on the hull of the tank so you should be able to tell before fire heavy bolters at it (I can think of better things to fire heavy bolters at)


But it is WYSIWYG!
A power weapon is any combat weapon, be it a sword, axe, garden rake or pretty colour finger.

I've yet to see a Mutated Hull vehicle that looks any different to an unmutated one (then again my tanks don't show extra armour either).

And the Chaos Lord, well, his Speed is a magic ability (lots of finger waving here) that has no visible outward appearance- same applies for his strength, etc..

Facing armies as they are without a peek at the list- not gonna be fun. It becomes 'who can model the worst' to disguise their ability.


Sportsmanship - If an opponent is being a jerk and replying with one word answers the I simply will not ask him any questions.


That's fine by the IW's player, then you'll never know if that DP has Speed until he leaps at you. Or that the Basilisk has minimum indirect 36" that he forgot about.


Game points - I think they will input all results into a spreadsheet by wins and the organise them by victory points to see who plays each other ... so people with 1000 VP's should be matched up and people with 200 VP's will be matched up.


The rulespack is very confusing and misleading, I see very little mention of this. It seems the Tourney guys got monkeys to throw their excrement onto paper then copied it.

But if this is true, what good is the 3pts, 1pt, 0pt system. If it is simply being ignored in favour of a total VP's/6, then why have it?
Again, monkeys could write more clearly.


Armies - I am happy with Ulthwe being kicked out (although new Codex: Eldar will be used for the final), It is a shame about LatD but maybe one or two people in every 100 played them so its not that bad.


Harsh, perhaps DE should be removed, or Orks? It's dangerous to play the 'majority wins' card in 40k- this leads to everyone playing the same, most popular armies, for fear of theirs being the next to be carted away. It is not helped by the 'huh, as long as it's not me' attitude.

The 'but their new Codex will be out' excuse also wears thin. Let's get this straight- no army has been banned because it's new Codex will be out after the GT starts. This is a new and sinister discrimination. If your not wearing power armour- your not coming in.

Surely IW's should be banned on the same grounds as the Seer Village? But that would be removing power armour.


Iron warriors may be a common sight but I would rather play them than Ulthwe any day of the week.

Each to his own, but I bet even IW's players will be sick of playing IW's players since that will be the most common army going.


EDIT - I realise you were posting as a LEET power gamer and not as yourself, my reply is at the points you bring up and not at you. Don't want to cause any offence

None taken. The same applies to my post. I may be cynical, bitter and paranoid- but it has served me well in the past.


please everyone work out an army to face mech tau/eldar starcannon/iw.. thats pretty much all you will see

Agreed, though not so much the Eldar.


LOL, excellent Si, good to see the rules pack is really bringing out that deeply hidden cynic in you!

I don't know whether to be disappointed at the collapse of the GT, or happy thinking about the Sisters of Battle that 50 + B&B will get me.


what do you suppose they mean but "non-standard dice" ????

I don't think it means rigged or weighted dice, I think that's an obvious illegality. Perhaps it means any that aren't GW store type.

Perhaps they should sell GT only dice at the door 5 for 10? Scatter dice cost extra!


I am thinking about heat 2 this year me and a few friends may be heading down.

Maybe see you there.


Probably, it's not called an addiction for nothing (it overrides rational thought). I'll probably be the one with the rain cloud and broken soap box.

Bran Dawri
21-05-2006, 22:42
Army list - WYSIWYG should be enforced strongly with the changes they have made, so I doubt anyone would get away with a blue finger. Also mutated hull is represented by Runes and spikes on the hull of the tank so you should be able to tell before fire heavy bolters at it (I can think of better things to fire heavy bolters at)


Well, there are people who have... different... backgrounds for their armies so things like mutated hull or daemonic possession aren't immediately apparent to opponents unless they're familiar with said player *and* his background.

While on the one hand I don't think someone should be penalised for being creative, I can see where it would be annoying for an opponent if all kinds of stuff suddenly appear on opposing models, which is why I didn't argue very hard when the judges at last years dutch GT gave me 0 points for WYSIWYG (though I was really, really p*ssed off for only getting an average painting score when 90% of the armies present were definitely not as good-looking as mine).

In any case, if you dislike the loss of painting scores, quizzes and their ilk, why not give the dutch GT a go? It's much more gamer-friendly than the UKGT, at least from what I've heard of the latter.
They have a lot of interesting new scenarios (some of them designed to punish min-maxing of one form or another, some just plain fun), as well as interesting other little rules.
For instance, army lists are available to the opponent beforehand, but you're allowed to bring a special copy of your army list that doesn't mention things the opposing general wouldn't know about like magic items, fanatics and hidden assassins.
I've been to the fantasy one for the past 3 years, and never failed to have a blast; they haven't gotten rid of painting scores and such for this year either, and I assume the same will go for 40K.