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Sandrios
06-02-2013, 07:13
Did the Mouth of Sauron survive? According to the legendarium he walked through the black gate, set the armies of mordor on the Westrons and was never seen again, no one found his body then. Could he of survived? He wouldn't of been destroyed as he wasn't a creation of Sauron unlike the orcs and the nazgul.

Whitwort Stormbringer
06-02-2013, 08:21
A few things.

He could have survived, but as far as I know it is also not stated that he was never found either. Tolkien simply neglects to mention him after the encounter before the Black Gate. Given that, I think it's pretty much up to you whether or not you want to consider him to be alive or not. Some speculative fan-fiction maintains the Mouth of Sauron as a primary villain in 4th Age settings, but personally, even though Tolkien wrote relatively little on the 4th Age, I would have thought that if he intended for the Mouth of Sauron to survive and continue to operate he would have written that at least.

The Nazgul were destroyed because their existence was dependent on the Ring, much like Sauron's, so when the Ring was destroyed so were they. Orcs, on the other hand, were not Sauron's creation, and some probably would have survived into the 4th Age, although mostly as scattered warbands without any unifying leader or organization, so would eventually have been hunted down. They weren't destroyed just because Sauron was.

Sandrios
06-02-2013, 11:50
Well, there is nothing to say he was killed, thanks.

kidterminal
06-02-2013, 22:39
The Mouth of Sauron was given more or less immortality by Sauron. Tolkien says "Unnaturally long life". He seems to imply that he survived the fall of Numenor, making him thousands of years old all ready.

ForgottenLore
07-02-2013, 00:40
No he doesn't. I distinctly remember reading that the Mouth entered into Sauron's service when he returned to Mordor after being "driven" from Dol Guldur and that he (the Mouth) rose quickly through the ranks due to his intelligence and ruthlessness.

kidterminal
07-02-2013, 00:46
No he doesn't. I distinctly remember reading that the Mouth entered into Sauron's service when he returned to Mordor after being "driven" from Dol Guldur and that he (the Mouth) rose quickly through the ranks due to his intelligence and ruthlessness.
Oh yes he did. He was granted an unnaturally long life though.

ForgottenLore
07-02-2013, 04:04
Which could just mean a few hundred years, not that he is thousands of years old and survived the sinking of Numenor.

kidterminal
07-02-2013, 13:44
That's what he was given for becoming Sauron's BFF. But, sadly he never got to actually have an unnaturally long life for a Black Numemorian at least. Unless he becomes the super bad guy in the 4th age.

Peter88
14-02-2013, 04:49
This Mouth connected with Sauron was handed essentially immortality by means of Sauron.. He may seem to imply that they live through late Numenor, creating them thousands of yoa all ready.


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RunepriestRidcully
14-02-2013, 11:01
Must admit, that does sound like a nice idea, if you had enough players willing, that could be a nice/interesting campaign idea, in that whilst Sauron and the Nazgul are vanquished, the countless orcs and other monsters they commanded still remain, and so you have the forces of good attempting to "cleanse" middle earth as it were, possibly having the Mouth becoming a leader of sorts for mordor or some fallen realm, and the elves of Rivendell trying to do something before they go so they are not remembered as lazy "not are problem" guys who stood back and then slunk off.

kidterminal
14-02-2013, 14:48
Yes that could be a great campaign plot.

RunepriestRidcully
14-02-2013, 18:10
Any ideas on how to run it? Ie special missions, rules, plot points ect?

grumbaki
17-02-2013, 06:45
Any ideas on how to run it? Ie special missions, rules, plot points ect?

You could do a standard map campaign. Set away from good guy territory. Purpose for good guys is to take all orc settlements, pretty much do genocide. Orcs have to keep their civilians alive. A nice turn around, where the good guys are the marauding killers.

RunepriestRidcully
17-02-2013, 09:15
Ohh that does sound good, must admit I've never been a fan of Tolkein "Goody good" and the black and white good and evil he portrays, so a campaign like that could be good.

kidterminal
17-02-2013, 15:40
I would throw in the Easterlings too. The Mouth could have made himself their king.

RunepriestRidcully
18-02-2013, 15:38
^^^^^That would be good, especially if you included some kind of schism in the easterlings concerning their faith in Sauron as a god, which in turn could open the door for his return if they were to generate enough belief :P

kidterminal
18-02-2013, 16:35
Interesting idea.

jprp
21-03-2014, 14:22
You do realise that the tower fell destroying the whole fortress and all the forces in the battle were wiped out by Saurons destruction or buried in larva when the volcano went up, the only things on the plain that survived were the Hobbits that got air lifted out. The army at the gate wiped out the forces there.
Plenty of Orcs and Trolls survived in other areas but the MOS is dead meat.
There would be other Black Numenorians in the south that could fill the role your after, also there could be many lower powered evil Maia all around the planet perhaps in human or elven form, we know there were many Boldogs amoungst the orcs, one of them could rise in power and possibly take on a different form.