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scoutbike
30-03-2013, 11:53
How would you run these? I want answers based on using Daemonettes in their own right though, so not on the assumption that you have (for example) 50 Bloodletters somewhere else.

At the moment I'm thinking of two units of 20. But I know the trend these days is that most people want to run any combat unit at sizes at *least* 30, and more often even more than that.

sulla
30-03-2013, 13:12
I'd be tempted to run daemonettes in 18s; adjust the unit width to be greater than their opponent on the field and rely heavily on shadow magic to help them out. 18s are small enough to be sacrificial unlike a large unit. Let's face it, daemonettes stats make them poor cc troops vs most of the threats you will face these days, so they need that shadow magic, therefore keep them cheap. That way, if the winds don't help you out, at least you haven't lost too much of your list. With multiple attacks, much of your hitting power comes from the front rank so don't be afraid to sacrifice ranks for extra frontage.

Only real problem with slaanesh heavy is the lack of synergy in the list. The chariots don't really add much and everything short of your lords or soulgrinders lacks punch without magic to help out. Funny to think of daemons as being a soft hitting cc army...

yeknoMehT
30-03-2013, 13:23
How would you run these? I want answers based on using Daemonettes in their own right though, so not on the assumption that you have (for example) 50 Bloodletters somewhere else.

At the moment I'm thinking of two units of 20. But I know the trend these days is that most people want to run any combat unit at sizes at *least* 30, and more often even more than that.

I think two units of 20 is about right - a unit of 40 is a waste. Hordes are not worth it with them, and big units are very vulnerable to things like dwellers below (unless you take the herald).

I'm contemplating two units of 20 with a herald in each, with different loci, and at least one with shadow magic. Not only is it worth it for the spells, you can then also swap the heralds about to where they are needed...

Draxos
31-03-2013, 07:07
So, I'm new to the game and I plead ignorance here, but why do you not wanna run Daemonettes in a horde? And what kind of model would you want to run like that?

Kalandros
31-03-2013, 09:32
29 to 39 daemonettes in horde formation with ASF Herald is ideal.
Give 'em Flaming Banner.

furrie
31-03-2013, 09:50
29 to 39 daemonettes in horde formation with ASF Herald is ideal.
Give 'em Flaming Banner.

I have to agree, I used this setup and it worked great against h-elves. That combined with the last spell from the lore of slaanesh, it was great. I even got the unit to 50+ during the game

fgsfds-
31-03-2013, 10:52
I would run them in smaller formations, I think 20 per unit is pretty good, but then again I'm no expert as I play Daemonettes only as allies.

yeknoMehT
31-03-2013, 17:07
I have to agree, I used this setup and it worked great against h-elves. That combined with the last spell from the lore of slaanesh, it was great. I even got the unit to 50+ during the game

Yeah, its not that they don't work as a horde, but you get less of a return that way than for others (with the lots of attacks)
Depends what else there is in the army, but a horde of 30 isn't going to benefit from being a horde for long! Of course it depends what else is on the table, and having the option is good.
i would be reluctant to rely on the Slaanesh lore attribute to save your bacon every time. Great if you can get it to work that way, but on average to get from 30 to 50, you're needing an awful lot of wounds from spells and some good rolling!

As I said, I think both ways -can- work, I just prefer a smaller, speedier unit, which will benefit from steadfast just as long, but not miss out on too many attacks, in case you don't get the magic phase you need (a 4 result will usually make your daemonettes very sad...)

Draxos
31-03-2013, 19:44
I actually tired a horde of 30 Bloodletters once and yeah... that didn't work out very well since my opponent was able to just use spells to take out enough guys so that I wasn't really a horde for much longer. I like the idea of them as a small agile unit that hits the sides.

kefkah
31-03-2013, 20:00
So, I'm new to the game and I plead ignorance here, but why do you not wanna run Daemonettes in a horde? And what kind of model would you want to run like that?

First is that they got two attacks each, if you horde them you lose out the extra attacks from supporting attacks. Second is that they are still s3 (albeit AP). S3 wont get you anywere withouth magic defense. Sure if your against Elves it might be ok...but even if you strike first, vs anything t4 or a decentish armour save you wont get that many wounds off.

Atleast thats my thinking, sure if you go magic heavy they do better, but thats still some spells that needs to get off. Whenever i run a horde its something s5-6, or has somekind of punch that i know i can rely on even if i get a bad magic phase.

Havent played newest ED deamons, but bloodletters are solid horde. S5 (still on the charge) Good I, Good ws, 5+!ward and MR1, and kb to boot. Now thats a reliable unit that you know will perform.

And yes, every horde will take damage. With daemons you atleast always got 5+.

Von Wibble
31-03-2013, 21:12
There is also the fact that if you go for 2 blocks of 18 rather than 1 of 36, you can beter take advantage of the high M characteristic and set up more combo charges.

You also have more flexibility on which unit to add to with magic if you want to go magic heavy.

Von Wibble
31-03-2013, 21:14
Only real problem with slaanesh heavy is the lack of synergy in the list. The chariots don't really add much and everything short of your lords or soulgrinders lacks punch without magic to help out. Funny to think of daemons as being a soft hitting cc army...

I have to agree - I can't imagine fielding a Slaanesh only list without a Soulgrinder for sure.

Dante blackfur
01-04-2013, 05:22
How would you run these? I want answers based on using Daemonettes in their own right though, so not on the assumption that you have (for example) 50 Bloodletters somewhere else.

so Ive only played a few games with the 8th ed Deamons book, but I've always run Khorn/Slenesh with a few Tzeentch heralds with the old book, since then I've dropped the heralds mostly. things I'm noticing more effective is back closer to 7th ed rules (Core rules) where smaller more mobile units are better, playing them closer to 40k style. units of 18-21 (6-7 wide 3 deep for best frontage) is very nice, especially if you run terrain heavy (like main rules suggest) another thing about running smaller units besides better maneuverability is that there is less damage from the RoC table, sure you may roll a few more times but if you are unlucky enough to roll your gods wrath and then double 6's you only lose 180-220 pts worth of models (opposed to 400-500 pts for a horde) also as mentioned before you have more opportunity to combo charge to take away steadfast/ranks/etc.


At the moment I'm thinking of two units of 20. But I know the trend these days is that most people want to run any combat unit at sizes at *least* 30, and more often even more than that.

why at *least* 30 with smaller units you have greater flexibility and less loss when you lose a unit. plus if you run 1-2 wizards the lore attribute can keep that unit going for an extra turn or 2.


There is also the fact that if you go for 2 blocks of 18 rather than 1 of 36, you can beter take advantage of the high M characteristic and set up more combo charges.

You also have more flexibility on which unit to add to with magic if you want to go magic heavy.

I totally agree with you. plus, besides what you can cast on your own units more units, as you mentioned 2x 18 instead of 1x32 makes your opponent have to divide his fire in several different directions opposed to firing everything at one unit. plus as a side bonus you have a better chance of "out-deploying" your opponent with 6-7 units opposed to 3-4.

so over all, to the OP, heres my suggestion on a pure slenesh based army, mostly just the core.

Greater deamon
2-3 heralds
21 demonettes Herald, Musician (7x3 for greatest frontage against most units)
21 demonettes Herald, Musician (7x3 for greatest frontage against most units)
21 demonettes Herald, Musician (7x3 for greatest frontage against most units)
21 demonettes Herald, Musician (7x3 for greatest frontage against most units)
1-2 Soul grinders
+flavor to taste

this is for around a 2k list

I know its simple but if your running majority deamonettes you need punch and GD and Soul Grinders are some of our few options that can provide that.

now if you felt like expanding, 1-2 units of 30 bloodletters could also provide the punch you need. :evilgrin:

Hope this all helps. have fun and let us know what you find to work best for the lovely ladies.

popisdead
02-04-2013, 20:30
30 with Mindrazor and ASF but use the Lore of Shadow attribute to make them immune to characteristics tests until you get Mindrazor off.

Problem is you are casting these spells with lvl 1s.

yeknoMehT
03-04-2013, 15:19
30 with Mindrazor and ASF but use the Lore of Shadow attribute to make them immune to characteristics tests until you get Mindrazor off.

Problem is you are casting these spells with lvl 1s.

You could have mindrazor on a KoS or DPoS at level 4 with Shadow, then a level 1 shadow herald. The opponent is much more likely to try and dispel that one, then leave you to cast something like miasma with the level 1 - they might even let it through if you've got dice left and they haven't worked out what you're doing...

It does rely on getting that crucial spell of exactly when you need it, so running up against something that will annihilate you without spells is probably a Bad Plan. Really good to change a fairly even combat into a walkover. That way you might get a second chance to try it if it doesn't work first time!

Wicksy
03-04-2013, 19:38
I have had some success running 30 deamonettes in horde with the ASF herald backed by a KoS with shadow. I got lucky and had pit of shades, miasma and okkams....so basically my opponent has to choose whether he takes a pit of shades with miasma or okkams on the daemonettes. 21 daemonettes slaughtered 40 savage orc big un's and 20 black orcs, a chariot and 50 strong unit of night goblins.

cannons seem a great backup as anything toting regen is screwed. Skaven must cry rivers seeing their hell pits sniped with contemptuous ease.

Brother Haephestus
08-04-2013, 20:56
First is that they got two attacks each, if you horde them you lose out the extra attacks from supporting attacks. Second is that they are still s3 (albeit AP). S3 wont get you anywere withouth magic defense. Sure if your against Elves it might be ok...but even if you strike first, vs anything t4 or a decentish armour save you wont get that many wounds off.

Atleast thats my thinking, sure if you go magic heavy they do better, but thats still some spells that needs to get off. Whenever i run a horde its something s5-6, or has somekind of punch that i know i can rely on even if i get a bad magic phase.

Havent played newest ED deamons, but bloodletters are solid horde. S5 (still on the charge) Good I, Good ws, 5+!ward and MR1, and kb to boot. Now thats a reliable unit that you know will perform.

And yes, every horde will take damage. With daemons you atleast always got 5+.Agreed on the attacks issue going horde. There are other reasons to go horde however, and one of them is to ensure when you finally make contact with the enemy you still have a few ranks to make a difference, and get some extra CR in there as well. I tend to favor smaller units myself unless points cost for X unit are down in the 6s or lower.

Daemonettes have outperformed Bloodletters for me time and time again. I'd taken the Slannettes up against Ogres and the ASF and multiple attacks did most excellent. I did indeed take some return losses which pretty much denied the unit combat effectiveness against anything else, but maybe a few Slann-spells might have beefed them up again.

Out of the new book, Tzeench and Slaneesh remain my favorites. Just wish we didn't have that stupid Warpfire rule.

As always, the meta is going to drive what works for you. What works for me is Daemonettes.

SanDiegoSurrealist
08-04-2013, 21:24
29 to 39 daemonettes in horde formation with ASF Herald is ideal.
Give 'em Flaming Banner.

Versus any low Initiative army run Horde of Daemonettes with Flame Banner and Herald with the Locus of Grace.
Run them into whatever it is you wish to fight, undead, ogres, lizards, etc.
Great Unclean One right behind them casting Purple Sun though combat.

Other than that, use Bloodletters.

Von Wibble
13-04-2013, 15:38
Daemonettes are better than bloodletters point for point unless you are facing troops with strong armour. The extra attack and I on the daemonette, combined with lower points cost more than makes up for the point of S and lack of KB against most foes.

Oc if you want the most competitive core for points then plaguebearers win. Not a great choice in an all slaanesh army mind ;)