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cailus
29-05-2006, 02:45
All this Ork talk on the boards has got my head buzzing with anticipation of the new Codex (whenever it is released).

Anyway, here's my wishlist for both models and rules:

Models
Battlewagon model - konvershuns are good if yer an imaginative git. But us accountant types gits need a model.

Plastic Killa Kans - the current models look alright but are absolute nightmare to assemble - GW cheerfully refunded my money and acknowledged that the models require a lot of work including sawing of parts to make them fit.

Plastic dreadnought - so much easier to convert and carry.

War Buggy - new crew and weapons sprue - I like the model but not the crew or the fact that the weapon you get with it is a 2nd edition multi-melta!

Warbike - new riders. Bike model is cool but the rider is not.

Wartrukk - goes without saying. Current model is *****.

Plastic grots + slaver - current metal models are insanely expensive for such a cheap throw away unit.

Ork Boyz - weapon sprue - big shoota, burna, rokkit.

Pain boss/ big mek/nob - perhaps a plastic easily configured model ala the Space Marine captain?

Cyborks - metal figures in blister pack

I don't think new models should be introduced for the Flash gitz, 'Ard Boyz, Skarboyz etc as the basic boyz box allows you to build these (though ti would be nice to have models).

Rules to come up in next post.

cailus
29-05-2006, 03:13
New Rulez

HQ
Warboss
- T5
- 0-1 This allows Big Mek and Painboss to be fielded as leader. Alternatively give the Warboss access to the Painboss/Big Mek only armoury.
- 2 tiered Warboss - one is a 2 wound T4 one (basically a slightly better Nob) and the second is the 3 wound, T5 beast. No idea about the points these should cost.

Painboss and Big Mek
No changes.

ELITES
Cybork Unit
A new unit with the same stats as the Painboss's Cybork body guard

Flash Gitz
Must buy a weapon upgrade. I get sick of everyone just fielding them as a mini-devastator squad. I would lower the cost of the upgrades though as they are too pricey IMO.

Other units
No change needed IMO.

TROOPS
Ork Boyz mob
This replaces Shoota, Slugga and Stikk Bomba mob troop entries. You start with a basic Shoota armed Ork and then pay points to upgrade them with sluggas and/or krak/frag grenades.

Burna Boyz
Removed as entry. I find them to be redundant.

Tankbustas
No change.

Gretchin
No change.

FAST ATTACK

No changes other than maybe some points re-jigged. I think this part of the Ork codex works well (at least in my limited experience).

HEAVY SUPPORT
Lootas
Remove "Sorry mate" rule or whatever it's called - this is too much of disincentive to actually take these guys. Orks are bad enough at shooting and to have them shoot themselves is a wee bit too much.

No other changes to Heavy Support. I like the way most of them work.

SPECIAL RULES/WARGEAR
Waaagh - I don't think any changes are warranted.
Choppas - Replace current rule to a simple -1 save modifier. GW apparently doesn't like modifiers but still uses a lot of them - e.g. Slaneesh warp scream or IG close order drill.
Mega Armour - remove "always moves in difficult terrain" rule and scrap the mega boosta. This rule doesn't work too well as an Ork Warboss as an independent character rolls 3 dice fro Difficult Terrain and gets a re-roll with a megaboosta so you're almost assured of a 6 anyway. It does cripple the stupidly expensive Nob bodyguard too much though.
Wargear points price - introduce tiered pricing system similar to Marines/Chaos for Nobs/IC.
'Uge Choppa - scrap it as it is redundant. A powerklaw is a much better investment and I have never seen anyone use a 'Uge Choppa.


Can't remember anything else, but as this is a forum feel free to add your own ideas.

Lord Lucifer
29-05-2006, 03:21
Wishlist eh?

Hmmm, could be a big one this.


1. We want our technology back!
Traktor Kannonz, Smasha Gunz, Pulsa Rokkitz, Splatta Kannonz, Power Axez, Gunz dat can ignore Flak Armour, Lazkannonz an' Multimeltaz an' all da uvver good kit we 'ad...
'Eard da Shokk Attakk is coming back, which iz good nooz fer us

2. We want our old Stat Line back!
Not every Ork sells 'iz gun fer a rusty spike to whack people wiv. Da Deffskullz, Bad Moonz, Blood Axez an' Evil Sunz all like shootin' fingz an' watchin' 'em 'splode!
Sure, let da Goffz keep da noo statz dey'z got, it makes sense fer 'em, an' maybe da Snakebitez too.

3. We want our fluff back!
You can't fit 500 pagez of background into a 45-page 3rd ed. Codex!
Dere's Ork playerz now 'oo know NUFFING about Orkz! Dey don't know dat Orks live in tribes, not clanz (and dat da Clanz are groupings wivvin' da tribe), dey don't know da Orks was once taken care of by da Brain Boyz, dey don't know dat da Orkz are da greatest makerz of Forcefield and Teleport technology, dat da Mekboyz, Painboyz, Wierdboyz and uvver Oddboyz are genetically determined by da Orkoid Techno-gene which is part of da symbiotik algal DNA strand deal da Brainboyz put in da Orkz when da Brainboyz woz dyin' to make sure Orks alwayz 'ave everyfing dey need. Dey don't know about squig-eating contests. Dey don't know dat Orkz can't be possessed proper by Daemonz.

4. We want our unpredictability back!
Orks isn't scared of unreliable and unpredictable weaponz, why iz da game designerz?

5. We don't wanna be Green Nidz no more!
Kinda speaks fer itself.

6. We don't wanna be generic space barbarianz!
Mel Gibson ain't green, so why do we gotta be a Poor Mans' Mad Max?

7. We wants options for all da clanz in one list
Versatility in a army list make it intrestin' longer.

8. Makari!
'Nuff said :D

cailus
29-05-2006, 03:25
7. We wants options for all da clanz in one list
Versatility in a army list make it intrestin' longer.


I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I particularly agree with this one.

The only traits list that GW have done alright is the IG Doctrines. The Marine traits are ***** while the Chaos ones are a bit iffy in some cases (Thousand Sons anyone?).

Wraithbored
29-05-2006, 03:28
Add lord_blackfang's custom Ork vehicle rules! They're bloody briliant. Also 2 entire pages dedicated to looted vehicles(including Tau, Eldar and other Xenos vehicles! This is also what me and blackfang have been discusiing) and looted weaponry! Now that's orky!Find something weak from da pansees, oomies and Taisies and make it propa orky!

Also Da klanz must stay!

sephiroth87
29-05-2006, 03:29
I would like to see Ork warbosses have another viable weapon option besides a regular choppa. The 'uge choppa and the powerklaw are too slow and they can't have a burna. They need either an upgraded choppa that doesn't murder their initiative or access to power weapons.

I would also like the Warboss's retinue to not suck. Nobz are 20 points apiece before they even get weapons, and the other ones...well, they suck, too. Give them the option to have something other than nobz and squigs.

I agree with most of the things that have been said above. My biggest gripe is that I hate the drivers, but like many of the vehicles. Also, having a weapon platform (warbuggy) that doesn't have available weapons is stupid. Fix this.

But rejiggering the driver models will make me very happy.

And bring out the plastic trukk kit with lots of parts. We will thank you by buying lots of them.

Lord Lucifer
29-05-2006, 03:41
Nice additions, Hugh Lauri...errr, Wraithbored :D

I'd especially like vehicle-dependant "oh bugger" tables for Ork Looted vehicles, even if only as a variant rule for people feeling particularly adventurous (scattering Fireprisms, with the prism cannon removed and replaced with a Gutbuster Mega-Kannon that nearly crashes the thing every time it fires, is there anything more awesome than that?)

Toppan
29-05-2006, 03:51
how about the ability to loot any race's vehicles/weapons? makes no sense why we cant loot tau or eldar vehicles...unless im missing something in the fluff

Zzarchov
29-05-2006, 04:33
The problem with your theory Nurglitch is that once there is an official model everyone tries to tell you you HAVE to use that model, and then orks look like they come out of a factory.

Do the convertions look bad? Well then Im gonna wager the paint jobs on the awful models they make (Cyborks..the New Metal Possessed) will also be awful.

The Model range we got now is all we really need. Let other races supply us with all the loot we need to make our buggies.

@ Lord Lucifer: Point No.3

Actually most of that COMES FROM the 3rd Ed Codex. 99% of 2nd Ed ork fluff (pre-gorkamorka) was rightfully taken out back, shot, and buried to make room for the new fluff.

Zzarchov
29-05-2006, 04:40
comparitively they don't, and if they are..they almost always use the right model as the "base".

I've seen alot of Ork Rocket Buggies made from Landspeeders with missiles.. Never seen a single Landspeeder made from an Ork buggy with a multimelta. (or any weapon combo really, that just popped into my head)

cailus
29-05-2006, 04:53
It's Ok to convert, but you have to be good at it and you have to have money and resources.

Zzarchov, I think you are being unfair on Ork players that don't have the resources, time or ability to do decent conversions (like myself).

I live in Australia and can't get bits unless I order from the UK. So in order to use your example and loot a landspeeder I have to buy a Landspeeder, an Ork warbuggy/wartrakk for wheels/tracks and other bits such as mudguards, crew and weapons (assuming I want the crusty old drivers).

So that means that a 50 point warbuggy costs me AUD$85 (that's about US$65 or 35 pounds). A battlewagon would cost me even more.

Plus I work full time and have other interests.

I can barely paint, let alone convert.

And your telling me that I shouldn't have access to proper Ork models for battlewagons, buggies with proper weapons etc because Ork players are meant to convert these things?

Zzarchov
29-05-2006, 05:18
@ cailus :
You can buy Trakks/Buggies with all the weapon options except rokkits. Skorcha, Twin Linked Big Shoota (Trak), Mega Blasta (buggy with melta) already.
A battlewagon can be made with the spare bitz from a box of slugga boyz and a looted vehicle.

If you don't have time to paint and convert (im assuming ever, since you can do it slowly). Are Orks really the right army for you? Its kinda like complaining about IG needing to have so many models painted and all the time it takes. Its just part of the army.

@ Nurglitch: Looted Junk from Other armies ARE ork vehicles. The problem with the current ork vehicles is that there is only one design..and thats the nature of a model kit. But orks custom create EVERY vehicle..so if you have say TWO buggies from the same model kit..it already starts to look un-orky... when you have 9 of the same model its just way over the line.

Convertion is CENTRAL to the ork army as it is now, and thats why I like the army. If its just the rules your after..why not just Proxy another army with ork rules?

I've seen a bang-up Job of this done with Chaos Beastmen, he used them as orks (blood axe)

Slap some Gors on round bases for orks, Chaos Predator, and Chaos Landraider for looted vehicles, An IG Chimera for the warboss (whos a minotaur). All straight out of the box, all legal, looked nice.

cailus
29-05-2006, 06:23
@ cailus :
You can buy Trakks/Buggies with all the weapon options except rokkits. Skorcha, Twin Linked Big Shoota (Trak), Mega Blasta (buggy with melta) already.

So they never should have replaced the Landraider, Rhino etc kit? The current Ork range is a mish-mash of 2nd ed, Gorkamorka and 3rd ed models. The drivers especially look like pathetic midgets when compared to a current Ork.

As for weapons and extra gubbinz, such as armoured plates, glyphs etc, these would be very handy not only for converting other vehicles, especially looted ones.


A battlewagon can be made with the spare bitz from a box of slugga boyz and a looted vehicle.

Yes it can, but it wouldn't look very good given the limited number of gubbinz on the current Boyz sprue - basically pouches, the odd short ammo belt and some curved armour plates and iron gobs. In fact buying a Fantasy Ork boxset offers you more bang for buck when it comes to gubbinz.

More gubbinz is always good.


If you don't have time to paint and convert (im assuming ever, since you can do it slowly), are Orks really the right army for you? Its kinda like complaining about IG needing to have so many models painted and all the time it takes. Its just part of the army.


What a daft perspective.

First of all, it does not state anywhere that Ork players have to convert anything. The army does lend itself to converting (much like any army really) but there is no rule that you have to convert.

Second of all, you seem as though you don't actually want anything new for the codex and seem to be content with the already mentioned awful mish mash of models we have.

New models would also attract new blood and more sales. If Orks are successful that means more support in the future and this will probably mean we won't have to wait 10 years for new codexes or models.

And for yourself, imagine the whole new opportunities for conversion that new models would offer.

Why should every army get new models other than Orks?

Oh and as for the Guard comparison, it's stupid too. I've played Guard armies that have less models than my Marine one by focusing on mechanised units or expensive units and upgrades (3 souped up Leman Russes + mechanised + grenadiers = small guard army that hurts a lot).

Zzarchov
29-05-2006, 06:36
As for weapons and extra gubbinz, such as armoured plates, glyphs etc, these would be very handy not only for converting other vehicles, especially looted ones.

The whole point of it would be to NOT have convertions though, if your converting anyways..whats out now will do..



Yes it can, but it wouldn't look very good given the limited number of gubbinz on the current Boyz sprue - basically pouches, the odd short ammo belt and some curved armour plates and iron gobs. In fact buying a Fantasy Ork boxset offers you more bang for buck when it comes to gubbinz.

The box set of orks gives you the ability to make 6-8 NICE looking Big Shootas (as shown in codex)



More gubbinz is always good.

I agree, except when GW makes you pay out the wazoo for it (and they do) and you don't use those bits. If your gonna fork out the extra cash anyways..




What a daft perspective.

Well now, thats a lil silly..I could just as easily consider your perspective daft. It wouldn't be a forum for discussion if we all had to agree with you now would it?



First of all, it does not state anywhere that Ork players have to convert anything. The army does lend itself to converting (much like any army really) but there is no rule that you have to convert.


No it doesn't, But the vast majority of vehicle shown IN THE ACTUAL CODEX are convertions. It has a whole section in the already small codex devoted to how to convert. Other codexes don't have this..HINT HINT.



Second of all, you seem as though you don't actually want anything new for the codex and seem to be content with the already mentioned awful mish mash of models we have.

If its good add it in, but I don't care about new things just because they are new. The Possessed are new, and IMO (though this is just me) are far worse than the sprue they used to have. New is not equal to good or worthwhile.



New models would also attract new blood and more sales. If Orks are successful that means more support in the future and this will probably mean we won't have to wait 10 years for new codexes or models.

Why do I care if other people play orks? If they do they do, and good for them, I have fun. But I don't play orks because I want a shiny new bauble every 5 weeks, or a new codex every 2 years. I enjoy orks just fine now, if they find a way to improve them Im happy as a pig in a sty.. but change for changes sake is a terrible idea.



And for yourself, imagine the whole new opportunities for conversion that new models would offer.

The current system already offers a nigh limitless selection. And GW knows this, this is why their plans for a multi-part generic "vehicle bitz" sprue are holding them back. How do you create an endless amount of variations in one kit that you can fit in a box for $40? They have spent years trying.



Why should every army get new models other than Orks?

If the Sculptors wanna make some good orks, I'll buy em. If they don't feel like, or can't properly make, good orks.. spend your time making another armies minis until you can because I won't buy em anyways.



Oh and as for the Guard comparison, it's stupid too. I've played Guard armies that have less models than my Marine one by focusing on mechanised units or expensive units and upgrades (3 souped up Leman Russes + mechanised + grenadiers = small guard army that hurts a lot).

If your gonna tailor the list so you don't have to paint many guard.... why not Tailor your Ork list so you don't have to do any convertions? Its pretty easy, go footslogger. Not 1 convertion needed for a good looking effective ork army.

Clang
29-05-2006, 06:40
yeah, a well thought out Looted Vehicle/Weapon rule would be very fluffy - something that allows Orks to loot _any) other army's vehicle/weapon (yes, I know a little creative thinking is needed for say Tyranid weapons, but hey, PainBoyz just love a spot of transplant surgery!), with a sensible cost and penalty (e.g. lower BS, tendency to explode or whatever)

And add my vote for bringing back the Shokk Attack Gun and other deeply odd weaons - it made Orks so wonderfully different from all those other 'boring' races, and so perfectly fits in with the fluff of mekboyz having a geneticly inherited mechanical aptitude combined with an alarming lack of mechanical knowledge.

on the modelling side, I agree that a modified boyz sprue (with the special weapons) is a must, and also fairly likely given other races' recent releases. The Battlewagon kit has long been rumoured and again i definitely expect _something_ along these lines. I'd certainly love to see a Walker kit capable of making Kanz and Dredds.

cailus
29-05-2006, 06:56
The whole point of it would be to NOT have convertions though, if your converting anyways..whats out now will do.

Maybe for you, but I think that the current vehicle rang needs to be revamped.



The box set of orks gives you the ability to make 6-8 NICE looking Big Shootas (as shown in codex)

Yes but what about glyphs, armour plates, other weapons, random do-hickeys that might not have any game role but make it look Orky,


I agree, except when GW makes you pay out the wazoo for it (and they do) and you don't use those bits. If your gonna fork out the extra cash anyways...

But what you were suggesting to me would have costed a lot more than the price GW charge for a kit ($35 for a GW warbuggy compared to at least $85 for a landspeeder and warbuggy).

Plus I'd have useless marine parts left over. Now if could buy an Ork kit and get plenty of Orky gubbinz then that would be more useful than having a bunch of Marine or Tau or Chaos or even fantasy bits left over.


Well now, thats a lil silly..I could just as easily consider your perspective daft. It wouldn't be a forum for discussion if we all had to agree with you now would it?

I do apologise for the outburst.


No it doesn't, But the vast majority of vehicle shown IN THE ACTUAL CODEX are convertions. It has a whole section in the already small codex devoted to how to convert. Other codexes don't have this..HINT HINT.

Yes but the Dark Eldar codex has converted Scourges.

I think the Codex featured lots of conversions because the models were not actually out in a lot of cases - I am referring to the Big Gunz, and shoota/rokkit boyz.

As for the vehicles, I have a sneaking suspicion Andy Chambers and Adi Wood were kinda showing off.


If its good add it in, but I don't care about new things just because they are new. The Possessed are new, and IMO (though this is just me) are far worse than the sprue they used to have. New is not equal to good or worthwhile.

Very true.


Why do I care if other people play orks? If they do they do, and good for them, I have fun. But I don't play orks because I want a shiny new bauble every 5 weeks, or a new codex every 2 years. I enjoy orks just fine now, if they find a way to improve them Im happy as a pig in a sty.. but change for changes sake is a terrible idea.

I was not advocating change for changes sake. Most people agree that the Orks require a bit of an overhaul at least in terms of the vehicle range. New models refresh people's interest in the army.

As for not caring about who plays Orks, to put it simply, if only you played Orks then GW would drop the product line faster than you can say "financially unviable."


The current system already offers a nigh limitless selection. And GW knows this, this is why their plans for a multi-part generic "vehicle bitz" sprue are holding them back. How do you create an endless amount of variations in one kit that you can fit in a box for $40? They have spent years trying.

Nigh limitless selection? This is why there is no battle wagon or rokkit buggy/trak? This is why even for a simple upgrade such as a grot rigger or different weapon I have to go out and buy other models, thereby increasing the cost of the already overpriced model.



If the Sculptors wanna make some good orks, I'll buy em. If they don't feel like, or can't properly make, good orks.. spend your time making another armies minis until you can because I won't buy em anyways.

Fair enough.


If your gonna tailor the list so you don't have to paint many guard.... why not Tailor your Ork list so you don't have to do any convertions? Its pretty easy, go footslogger. Not 1 convertion needed for a good looking effective ork army.

It pretty much is anyway - currently there is a warboss, 30 sluggas, 12 shootas, 1 buggy and 3 big gunz. A second buggy is on order. The buggy is equipped with a simple conversion - a shoota magazine glued to the side of the meltagun to make it count as a Big Shoota.

But I really don't want to spend many hours and much money trying to make a Leman Russ or Landraider into a Battle Wagon.

lord_blackfang
29-05-2006, 08:22
Meh, not this overdone topic again... fine, I'll just copypasta what I always post.



These rules replace all Ork vehicles in the Codex. There are seperate tables for Light Vehicles and Tanks. Just make your way down the table, pick the options you want, and pay the points. Simple as that. Note that the rules for Tanks should also be used to represent looted vehicles - simply construct a vehicle with characteristics as close as possible to the original, and assume the Orks have already replaced most of its weapons.


-------------------------------------------------------
ORK LIGHT VEHICLE (TRAK/TRUKK/BUGGY)

Basic hull: 10/10/10, open-topped
Basic cost: 30 pts

May take a single upgrade from the following list for +5 pts

-Huge engine (vehicle becomes Fast)
-Armoured top (vehicle is no longer open-topped)
-Thick front armour (front armour in increased to 11)
-Transport capacity for 5 models

May take any three of the following upgrades for the cost listed. Each upgrade may only ba taken once unless stated otherwise.

-Rokkit launcha or Big shoota (+5 pts, can be taken twice)
-Skorcha (+5 pts)
-Kustom Mega-blasta (+15 pts, counts as two choices)
-Transport capacity for 5 models (free, can be taken twice)

[note: if two rokkit launchas or big shootas are taken, they count as one twin-linked weapon]
[note: transport capacity from both tables stacks]

Availability:
Light Vehicles without transport capacity can be taken as Fast Attack in squadrons of 1-3. Vehicles in the same squadron don't have to be identical, but fast and non-fast vehicles may not be mixed in the same squadron.
Light VEhicles with transport capacity can be taken as Transport upgrades for any unit normally allowed transports and that can fit all of its models onto the vehicle.
Orks and squigs take one passenger space, grots take half a space, orks in mega armour take two spaces.

Sample Light Vehicles:
Classic Wartrukk: 10/10/10 open-topped fast, transport capacity 10, rokkit launcha: 40 pts (Codex cost: 35)
Classic Skorcha: 10/10/10 open-topped fast, skorcha: 40 pts (Codex cost: 38)
Classic Warbuggy: 10/10/10 open-topped fast, twin-linked rokkit launcha: 45 pts (Codex cost: 40 pts)

Wartrukk Deluxe: 10/10/10 open-topped, transport capacity 15, big shoota: 40 pts
Big Mek's Trukk: 10/10/10 open-topped fast, transport capacity 5, Kustom Mega-Balsta: 50 pts
Combat Buggy: 11/10/10 open-topped, twin-kinked rokkit launcha, skorcha: 50 pts
Budget Buggy: 10/10/10 open-topped, big shoota: 35 pts
-------------------------------------------------------
ORK TANK (GUNWAGON/BATTLEWAGON/LOOTED VEHICLE)

Basic hull: 11/10/10, open-topped, tank
Basic cost: 45

May take any number of the following upgrades for +10 pts each
-Increase front armour by 1 point (can be taken up to three times)
-Increase side armour by 1 point (can be taken up to two times)
-Armoured top (vehicle is no longer open-topped)

May take any three of the following upgrades for the cost listed. Each upgrade may only ba taken once unless stated otherwise.
-Transport capacity for 10 models (+5 pts, can be taken up to three times)
-Primary weapon loadout (+25 pts) OR Looted main weapon (see below for cost)
-Secondary weapon loadout (+15 pts, can be taken up to two times)


Primary weapon loadout: the vehicle is outfitted with three of the following weapons in any combination: twin-linked rokkit launcha, twin-linked big shoota, skorcha. One weapon may be upgraded to a Lobba, Kannon, Zzap gun or Kustom Mega-blasta for +15 pts.
Secondary weapon loadout: the vehicle is outfitted with two of the following weapons in any combination: twin-linked rokkit launcha, twin-linked big shoota, skorcha. Both weapons may be swapped for a single Lobba, Kannon, Zzap gun or Kustom Mega-blasta for +5 pts.
Looted main weapon: either a battle cannon at +35 pts, a demolisher cannon at +45 pts, twin-linked lascannon at +25 pts.


Sample Tanks:
Classic Battlewagon: 13/12/10 open-topped, tank, transport capacity 20, 1 zzap gun, 2x twin-linked rokkit launcha: 135 pts (Codex cost 135)
Classic Gunwagon (ForgeWorld): 12/11/10 open-topped, tank, transport capacity 10, 1 kannon: 90 (Imperial Armour cost 100)
Looted Leman Russ: 14/12/10 tank, battle cannon, 2x twin-linked big shootas: 160
Looted Chimera: 12/10/10 tank, transport capacity 10, twin-linked big shoota, skorcha: 85 pts
Looted Predator: 13/11/10 tank, twin-linked lascannon, 2x twin-linked rokkit launcha: 130 pts
Looted Rhino: 11/11/10 tank, transport capacity 10: 60 pts

Ordnance Wagon: 14/10/10, tank, battle cannon, kannon: 140
Minimal Transport: 11/10/10, open-topped, tank, transport capacity 30: 60 pts
Overgunned: 12/10/10, tank, 5x twin-linked big shoota: 105 pts
Tankbuster: 13/11/10, tank, 2x zzap gun, 2x twin-linked rokkit launcher: 145 pts

Kriegsherr
29-05-2006, 10:50
All the looted galore is neat, but I rather like to see more orky tech. If its old tech returning or new one doesn't really matters to me.

And more different ork vehicles. Or even better "build your own orky tank"-rules that resembles a little bit VDR.
I also would like if the orks would be decent shooters again. Maybe make the shoota boyz less good in CC. I don't know. But they should be decent in everything.... just a little bit risky.

And Zzarchov... Saying that ork-player need to convert to get real orky armies is like saying that marine-players should read their fluff and build armies according to that to get real beeky armies...... very true, but not everyone is good at conversions or has the time for it, like not everyone wants to buy and read 2nd ed codices (because the fluff in the 3rd ed is mostly ****) or is able/willing to restrict himself to a strongly themed army.

And it would be an even bigger slap in the face of all ork players, If marines get a new vehicle box every year while orkses don't even get one after 10 years. Wasn't GorkaMorka released in 96? or was it 97? Ten years since the last vehicle came out? Even IG had some new turrets for their ancient tanks in this timespan.

So: No new vehicle => A big mob of ork-players throwing stones and stikkbomms in nottingham HQ.

Lord Lucifer
29-05-2006, 11:39
@ Lord Lucifer: Point No.3

Actually most of that COMES FROM the 3rd Ed Codex. 99% of 2nd Ed ork fluff (pre-gorkamorka) was rightfully taken out back, shot, and buried to make room for the new fluff.
Codex Orks
48 pages.

Page 1: horried Wayne England drawing of an Ork Head, no 'fluff'
Page 2: a paragraph explaining Orks are the most widespread species/race in the galaxy, but hardly united. 5 paragraphs on why you should collect Orks, with background amounting to- they like fighting anyone, have variety, there's lots of them, they have bravado, and they're crude creatures
Page 3: Imperial transmission warning of imminent Ork attack, that the Orks HAVE attacked, and that the transmission has ended.
Page 4: How the Army List Works
Page 5: Ork Special Rules
Page 6: Ork Special Rules
Page 7: Ork Equipment Options and points costs
Page 8: Army list - Warboss is big and strong, nobs are also big and strong, Meks and Painboys are useful, trukks are light and flimsy
Page 9: Army list - Big Meks are ambitious Mekboys similar to Nobs, Painbosses are more obsessed Painboys who perform more extreme experiments
Page 10: Army List - Stormboys are crazy and strap rockets on their backs, Kommandos are sneaky, 'Ard Boyz wear armour and are 'Ard
Page 11: Army List - Skarboyz are strong, Flash Gitz have flash gear, Slugga Boyz are common, and Shootaz are deafeningly loud
Page 12: Army List - Stikk Bommas have Stikkbomz, Ork Burnas are blow-torches that can be turned into flamethrowers, Tankbustaz are Orks that have survived tank attacks and are good at destroying them
Page 13: Army List - Grots are an underclass, Trukk Boyz love their trukks, Wartrakks and Warbuggies are ramshackle affairs driven by Speed Freaks
Page 14: Army List - Warbikes are fine examples of Orky technology, Big Gunz are artillery
Page 15: Army List - Lootaz are scavengers who salvage equipment from defeated enemies, Dredz are big shooty and stompy, Kans are little Dredz
Page 16: Army List - Battlewagons are often made of cannibalised parts of other vehicles, Orks use looted vehicles with minor alterations
Page 17-32: Ork Painting Guide
Page 33: Imperial Study on correlation between Ork size and aggression levels
Page 34-37: Ork Equipment Rules
Page 38: Story about Orks killing Space Marines
Page 39: Picture of Orks shooting
Page 40-44: Rules for Ork Special Characters
Page 45: Ork Heirarchy
Page 46-47: Anzion theorises about Ork physiology
Page 48: The biologist Anzion tries to explain Ork technology


A sentence for each unit in the Army List pages, a paragraph on page two, and Imperial theories, does not a conclusive background make.


Most of the stuff I mentioned in point 3 does NOT come from the 3rd edition codex, it comes from 1st edition, nigh-on 20 years ago


And WHAT new fluff?
I could take everything from the 3rd ed. codex and put it on an A4 sheet of paper (one side) in size 12 font.
And the only thing that actually is new, is the chance that the Orks could have a second form of reproduction!
Here, I'll write the new fluff that room needed to be made for
Orks may be able to breed through a symbiotic process with fungus grown from the algal DNA contained in their discarded dead skin-cells, where fungus grown from such a source, creates an embryonic sack underground which acts as a womb for a growing Ork, the fungus patch supplying all necessary nutrients for the developing Orkoid
A sentence.


Make room? For what? One sheet of paper?
Because the codex needs to be smaller we should disregard everything about the Orks except for the tiniest synopsis?

The reason the 'old fluff' doesn't get a mention is because during the opening stages of 3rd ed. GW couldn't be arsed putting background into the codex releases, plain and simple.
In a 48-page codex where 15 pages are used on pictures of Ork armies, 22 pages are used on the Army List, and 8 pages are used for illustrations, stories and flavour-text, there's no room for background.
Hell, there wasn't even room for standard weapon profiles :rolleyes:




Plain and simple conclusion is GW needs to actually put the background in the Codex now that their player-base is comprised of people that DON'T own the previous editions' codex, unlike the player-base at the start of 3rd ed.

Damien 1427
29-05-2006, 12:08
Wasn't GorkaMorka released in 96? or was it 97? Ten years since the last vehicle came out? Even IG had some new turrets for their ancient tanks in this timespan.

Orktober, 1997, I think. You're correct in that it's getting on for a decade since Orks have had a new vehicle added. That wasn't a Kan.

I'd like to see a list akin to the Chaos list in terms of customisation - Being able to have an army run by a Dok or a Big Mek, having more say over what your boyz are carrying, and more bionikz, wargear, that sort of thing.

New Oddboyz, trukkz, and plastic Mega-Armour Nobz. Anything else doesn't worry me, but those would be grand.

MadJackMcJack
29-05-2006, 12:58
Burna Boyz
Removed as entry. I find them to be redundant.



No offence, but just because you find them redundent doesn't mean that others don't find them useful. I use them in 3 ways: add more mekboyz and more kustom fields, light-medium vehicle hunters (let's the tankbustas focus on the big stuff), and most importantly of all, cannon fodder (most opponents I find tend to expend a HUGE amount of firepower on them.

Chem-Dog
29-05-2006, 13:14
'Uge Choppa weilding berzerker squad, seen it touted around here a couple of times and I think it's an ace idea, suppose it could be a Scarboyz thing, I dunno, but the idea of a mob all armed with nothing but Uge Choppas and a lot of "enthusiasm" fits the orky feel in my book.

Stompa, we've all seen the pictures of the concept, we all think it should happen, need I say more?

Plastic Grots, even people who don't play Orks (like myself) want to see these guys, if plastic grots (Brian Nelson sculpting, obviously) get done we'll see the return of the grot tide.

Plastic Squiggoth? They've proved what they can do with the Mumak, an Ork riding beast of a similar size is possible and, with the amount of variations included in the Carnifex and Giant kits as a guide, you could expect a massive selection of horns, tusks, claws and, of course, Orky Gubbins.

robertsjf
29-05-2006, 13:52
Plastic Grots, even people who don't play Orks (like myself) want to see these guys, if plastic grots (Brian Nelson sculpting, obviously) get done we'll see the return of the grot tide.


Not to derail this whole thread but has anyone tried the fantasy gobbo boxed set and just put them on round bases whilst gluing all of those spare shootas/sluggas that I know every ork player has in their bitz box top them? Grots still need their own plastics but would/has this worked for anyone?

Kriegsherr
29-05-2006, 14:14
Orktober, 1997, I think. You're correct in that it's getting on for a decade since Orks have had a new vehicle added. That wasn't a Kan.


oops, forgot about the kans.... but then again, kans walk on the legs like the boyz. In fact they are nothing else than a very big ork boy... not something speedy and wheeled/tracked. ;)




I'd like to see a list akin to the Chaos list in terms of customisation - Being able to have an army run by a Dok or a Big Mek, having more say over what your boyz are carrying, and more bionikz, wargear, that sort of thing.

New Oddboyz, trukkz, and plastic Mega-Armour Nobz. Anything else doesn't worry me, but those would be grand.

I think the 3rd ed Mega-Armours are just fine. And new oddboyz? If you mean Meks and Painboyz... well they could do some that are for 40k. Not strange pals for GorkaMorka. Else, yup, the trukk is needed. But I also want to see a new buggy/trakk... because I luv da speedy stuff. And a big, customizable Battlewagon just because the cheapstakes at nottingham haven't done one for over 15(?) or 20(?) years. New boyz for all the special squads.

Hell I would like to see them working real hard, making some good stuff for the orks to make them one of the most played armies again.


And I'd like to see this codex reach new levels of customizabilaty, comparable only to the new nids.

Damien 1427
29-05-2006, 14:21
I'd like plastic versions of the current Mega-Armour Nobz so it wouldn't cost upwards of 60 to build a squad of Cyboororkz (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=695525&postcount=48). :p

Helicon_One
29-05-2006, 16:04
Battlewagon model - konvershuns are good if yer an imaginative git. But us accountant types gits need a model.
Has to be super-customisable though, to more or less ensure that no two Ork vehicles are alike. Also, as much as possible the bitz should be compatible with vehicle kits of other races, for obvious kitbashy reasons.


Plastic Killa Kans - the current models look alright but are absolute nightmare to assemble - GW cheerfully refunded my money and acknowledged that the models require a lot of work including sawing of parts to make them fit.

Plastic dreadnought - so much easier to convert and carry.
Don't know if Kanz are really on the top of the priority list, but again, if Eldar are getting Warwalkers in plastic, we should have Kans with the same. Again, needs customisation opportunities galore.


War Buggy - new crew and weapons sprue - I like the model but not the crew or the fact that the weapon you get with it is a 2nd edition multi-melta!
It may be possible to have a kit that can be made into either a Trukk or Buggy as the builder desires, which would be cool. The 'multimelta' can just be a KMB or Skorcha though.



Warbike - new riders. Bike model is cool but the rider is not.
The bike could be better too, to be honest.


Plastic grots + slaver - current metal models are insanely expensive for such a cheap throw away unit.
Night Gobbos or Gnoblars + looted imperial pistols = plastic grots.


Ork Boyz - weapon sprue - big shoota, burna, rokkit.
Possible. The existing Boyz sprue may be recut and juggled around, so throwing special options onto it at the same time is possible.


Pain boss/ big mek/nob - perhaps a plastic easily configured model ala the Space Marine captain?
As the new Big Mek model has only just shown up, this seems unlikely, especially the plastics. A metal 'accessory' sprue to add to add to the Nob model and turn it into a Big Mek or Bad Dok could be fun though.


Cyborks - metal figures in blister pack
As long as they're 'mix-n-match' multiparts, yes. A uniform handful of Cybork models would rather defeat the objective.


I don't think new models should be introduced for the Flash gitz, 'Ard Boyz, Skarboyz etc as the basic boyz box allows you to build these (though ti would be nice to have models).
Converting specialist Boyz out of the plastics is half the fun! Releasing metal sprues to allow an 'official' conversion may be a sensible compromise though.


Warboss
- T5
- 0-1 This allows Big Mek and Painboss to be fielded as leader. Alternatively give the Warboss access to the Painboss/Big Mek only armoury.
- 2 tiered Warboss - one is a 2 wound T4 one (basically a slightly better Nob) and the second is the 3 wound, T5 beast. No idea about the points these should cost.
No to T4 Warbosses, and lets have 3 tiers - Bigboss (Nob level), Warboss (as current) and Warlord (T5 and a couple of other boosts above current Warboss). 0-1, as you say.


Painboss and Big Mek
No changes.
Leave the stats alone, but they should come with Tools as standard.


ELITES
Cybork Unit
A new unit with the same stats as the Painboss's Cybork body guard
Prefer them as a bodyguard, to be honest. Make them customisable.


Flash Gitz
Must buy a weapon upgrade. I get sick of everyone just fielding them as a mini-devastator squad. I would lower the cost of the upgrades though as they are too pricey IMO.
I've never seen them fielded without a Kustom Job, things must be different around your area.


TROOPS
Ork Boyz mob
This replaces Shoota, Slugga and Stikk Bomba mob troop entries. You start with a basic Shoota armed Ork and then pay points to upgrade them with sluggas and/or krak/frag grenades.
Mostly the same as what I would do.


Burna Boyz
Removed as entry. I find them to be redundant.
HERESY *sharpens Choppa*


FAST ATTACK
No changes other than maybe some points re-jigged. I think this part of the Ork codex works well (at least in my limited experience).
Kustom vehicles are a must here. I'd also add Stormboyz and Dethkoptaz.


HEAVY SUPPORT
Lootas
Remove "Sorry mate" rule or whatever it's called - this is too much of disincentive to actually take these guys. Orks are bad enough at shooting and to have them shoot themselves is a wee bit too much.
I really dislike Orks having to Loot weapons from other races in the first place, so Id remove their Imperial options (''stoopid oomie junk'') and give them old-skool kustom big shootas instead.


No other changes to Heavy Support. I like the way most of them work.
Kustom Battlewagon is needed, and a more kustomisable Dread.


SPECIAL RULES/WARGEAR
Waaagh - I don't think any changes are warranted.
Choppas - Replace current rule to a simple -1 save modifier. GW apparently doesn't like modifiers but still uses a lot of them - e.g. Slaneesh warp scream or IG close order drill.
The choppa rule was bought in to help Orks against heavy infantry without overpowering them against lighter infantry... a -1 ASM just powers them up against everything. Besides, Heavy CCW is in the universal rules from the BGB, so it's almost certainly staying.


Mega Armour - remove "always moves in difficult terrain" rule and scrap the mega boosta. This rule doesn't work too well as an Ork Warboss as an independent character rolls 3 dice fro Difficult Terrain and gets a re-roll with a megaboosta so you're almost assured of a 6 anyway. It does cripple the stupidly expensive Nob bodyguard too much though.
Randomness is a good thing in an Ork army! MA needs to count as 2 models in a transport too.


Wargear points price - introduce tiered pricing system similar to Marines/Chaos for Nobs/IC.
For certain items, yes. Shouldn't just be used as an excuse to give Nobz cheaper items though - with 3 S4 attacks on the statline, and 29 ablative Boyz to catch bullets and chainblades for him, Nobz arguably get better value from something like a Power Claw than the Warboss!


'Uge Choppa - scrap it as it is redundant. A powerklaw is a much better investment and I have never seen anyone use a 'Uge Choppa.
My Warboss has an Ooge Choppa, so nerr. And surely the point of a new codex is to fix the things that are broken, not just bin them?

Hmm, I must be hitting the post size limit about now, so better stop there...

Tim

Helicon_One
29-05-2006, 16:43
1. We want our technology back!
Traktor Kannonz, Smasha Gunz, Pulsa Rokkitz, Splatta Kannonz, Power Axez, Gunz dat can ignore Flak Armour, Lazkannonz an' Multimeltaz an' all da uvver good kit we 'ad...
Yes. The more wacky unpredictable Orky Exploding Things, the better.



2. We want our old Stat Line back!
Not every Ork sells 'iz gun fer a rusty spike to whack people wiv.
Every PROPPA Ork duz, u pansee.


Da Deffskullz, Bad Moonz, Blood Axez an' Evil Sunz all like shootin' fingz an' watchin' 'em 'splode!
Just because they like it, doesn't mean they're particularly good at it though, and Orks like shooting because it makes a big loud noise and a mess, they're not particularly bothered by silly little things like 'aiming'.

Besides, Orky shooting can be perfectly viable as it is at BS2 (I've done it), and the 3rd Ed statline is much more in tune with the general Ork theme (read Andy C's designers notes if you can get them).


7. We wants options for all da clanz in one list
Versatility in a army list make it intrestin' longer.

8. Makari!
'Nuff said :D
Yes, and yes.



Also 2 entire pages dedicated to looted vehicles(including Tau, Eldar and other Xenos vehicles! This is also what me and blackfang have been discusiing) and looted weaponry! Now that's orky!Find something weak from da pansees, oomies and Taisies and make it propa orky!
Bleh. I HATE the idea of looted vehicles and weapons, it makes the Orks look like a second rate army who have to use other people's equipment to stand a chance. Where does an Ork get battlecannon ammo or lascannon cells from when they're blowing up all the Imperial bases on the planet? As for being able to loot Eldar vehicles, it doesn't matter how many glyphs you nail to a downed Falcon, an Ork doesn't have the mental empathy with the vehicle's control systems to control it.

Plus, Meks are natural tinkerers, they can't resist messing around with their creations. When an Ork force gets hold of a burned out Basilisk, does anyone really think the Mek is going to just patch it up back to Adeptus Mechanicus specifications? Of course he isn't! He'll bolt more guns to it (especially as, of course, he doesn't have access to any Earthshaker or heavy bolter ammo), and cut holes in it, and upgrade the engine, and put armour all over it, and give it 20 coats of Red Paint to make it go faster, and add a transport deck to allow 'iz matez to ride along on it, and he'll get carried away and make a hunded other little tweaks, and before he knows it there'll be virtually nothing left of the original tank underneath all those Orky bitz, and it certainly isn't going to operate anything like an Imperial Basilisk.

So looted straight copies of alien tanks has to go, Orks don't rely on puny 'oomie junk (let alone pansees or bloozies) to win the fight, they all know that Orky tech and Orky muscle is the way to get anything done. Instead, the previously mentioned 'kustumizayshun' rules should be flexible enough to let the player build a rough (and I do mean rough) approximation of what a looted Imperial vehicle might operate like after a Mek has finished destroying and rebuilding it. Lord_blackfangs system is pretty good, I have a WIP of something a bit like it as part of my Ork Codex, that I'll get around to posting here at some point.


Uge Choppa weilding berzerker squad, seen it touted around here a couple of times and I think it's an ace idea, suppose it could be a Scarboyz thing
That's in my WIP as well.

Tim

Zzarchov
29-05-2006, 18:36
@ Lord Lucifer and that IS all the new ork fluff.

Remember old ork Fluff? All their Tech came a captured STC? Gretchin had their own empires and could lead orks into battle. Orks weren't fungus creatures grown around, but rather when orks hit a breeding age, they gained a gender and had a family. Whom they would raise and educate? The big clans were actually feudal bloodlines not genetic abnormalities?

Orkoid spores did not grow other orks, let alone Grots or Squigs (a feral Tyranid organism). Meks and Doks were not born with genetic knowledge, but were trained on STC knowledge (hence their complete use of imperial weapons).

All of this modern stuff came in Gorka Morka, which became the basis for 3rd Ed Orks.

@ Helicon_One

Seriously? Read the Codex. Orks don't just smash, they conquer and enslave and even build feudal empires (some of which last for thousands of years). They continue operating Imperial factories (manned by human slaves) for hundreds of years, pumping out new ammo and new vehicles.

1/4 of the ork clans are ALL ABOUT using looted or imperial vehicles (Deathskulls loot and Blood Axes buy/trade)

malika
29-05-2006, 18:45
Decent background and modelling articles...

Look at this (http://wiki.anargo-sector.net/index.php?title=Index_Xenos_Orks) background article for the Anargo Sector Project on the Orks :)

I would like to see more Clan oriented stuff as well.

More things:
-Mega Armoured Nob mobs.
-Plastic Gretchins
-More vehicles
-Looters with other than just Imperial technology
-Return of some 2nd edition weapon...just make them more Orky instead of multi melta spelled differently


For the fluff discussion...I think we should mix old background with new background, not all of the new stuff is perfect, but that doesnt mean all the old stuff was good. Im not too fond of the overly comic thing and all their tech is stolen from the Imperium isnt that appealing either.

Helicon_One
29-05-2006, 19:37
@ Helicon_One

Seriously? Read the Codex. Orks don't just smash, they conquer and enslave and even build feudal empires (some of which last for thousands of years). They continue operating Imperial factories (manned by human slaves) for hundreds of years, pumping out new ammo and new vehicles.

So why aren't Ork armies equipped with bolters and lasguns, if they have these Imp factories pumping out millions of guns? Instead they seem to prefer individually cobbled together Shootas and Sluggas.

And ok, I can buy captured facilities being able to mass produce Rhinos and Russes, but do you really suggest that any of them remain 'factory specification' for more than 5 minutes after a Mek gets his hands on it?

Tim

Gethalorre
29-05-2006, 19:47
Koz shootaz look koola, duh.

Anyway, I think the Customisable vehicle idea is good, and the levels of warbossage is also good.

You may like to view http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?showforum=22 (this.)

bloodlust
29-05-2006, 20:22
New Rulez

Burna Boyz
Removed as entry. I find them to be redundant.



I'm sorry, but absolutely no ********** way. Having Mekboyz lead them means 4 burnas in one squad that also has a kustom force field. Having at least one unit of burnas is (in many veteran's eyes) essential to an Ork list.

@robertsjf: I have found the fantasy night goblin box set to be excellent for making my grots. The sprues even include grot-like goblin runts. I just clipped down 2nd edition bolt pistols to make grot blastas.

Flame of Udun
29-05-2006, 20:33
@ Lord Lucifer and that IS all the new ork fluff.

Remember old ork Fluff? All their Tech came a captured STC? Gretchin had their own empires and could lead orks into battle. Orks weren't fungus creatures grown around, but rather when orks hit a breeding age, they gained a gender and had a family. Whom they would raise and educate? The big clans were actually feudal bloodlines not genetic abnormalities?

Orkoid spores did not grow other orks, let alone Grots or Squigs (a feral Tyranid organism). Meks and Doks were not born with genetic knowledge, but were trained on STC knowledge (hence their complete use of imperial weapons).

All of this modern stuff came in Gorka Morka, which became the basis for 3rd Ed Orks.

@ Helicon_One

Seriously? Read the Codex. Orks don't just smash, they conquer and enslave and even build feudal empires (some of which last for thousands of years). They continue operating Imperial factories (manned by human slaves) for hundreds of years, pumping out new ammo and new vehicles.

1/4 of the ork clans are ALL ABOUT using looted or imperial vehicles (Deathskulls loot and Blood Axes buy/trade)

Da funk??? where did all that come from, that's not 2nd ed fluff! in fact I've never ever heard that before! And 2nd ed fluff IS THE DEFINITIVE FLUFF.:D

I for one would like to see grots return as the cannon fodder they ought to be, couple of 30 strong grot mobs make good meat shields to get da boyz inta da fight!

malika
29-05-2006, 21:01
So why aren't Ork armies equipped with bolters and lasguns, if they have these Imp factories pumping out millions of guns? Instead they seem to prefer individually cobbled together Shootas and Sluggas.

And ok, I can buy captured facilities being able to mass produce Rhinos and Russes, but do you really suggest that any of them remain 'factory specification' for more than 5 minutes after a Mek gets his hands on it?

Tim

I think the Orks are smart enough for industrial capabilities, Mek Workshops filled with Grots are basicly factories which produce weapons and ammo. I refuse to believe that each Ork makes his own weapons and ammo, there simply wouldnt be enough space/material/time to do this. The Mek is capable of eventually creating his own factory, but if the Orks capture factories the mek would probably alter it to such a level that it would simply become the same as his workshop I assume.

Zzarchov
29-05-2006, 21:32
but they don't. Meks build workshops, they are the anti-thesis of a factory. Diggaboyz run around mining for metals (thats what they naturally do) Brewboyz brew fuel from squigs. Meks form small workshops and build most of the small arms and light machines the orks use.

This is how alot of third world nations build small arms IRL. A gunsmith can easily build three or four AK-47s a day.


Factories are run by Slaverz and nobz who aint got time for a Meks tomfoolery. They are also much rarer.

Thats why looted vehicles are a 0-1 option.

Meks don't get their hands on imperial factories because Meks are smaller than Nobz/Warbosses and the warboss will be damned if some Mek tinkerz wif his loot. Thats why Warbosses often exhile meks (like Wazdakka Gutzmek)

cailus
30-05-2006, 00:34
Night Gobbos or Gnoblars + looted imperial pistols = plastic grots.

Still too expensive. I have to buy useless IG boxsets and boxes of Gnoblars. That's AUD$100 (US$76/GB 40 pounds) for a unit that costs less tha 100 points. That's insanely expensive.

So plastic Grots are a must!


As the new Big Mek model has only just shown up, this seems unlikely, especially the plastics. A metal 'accessory' sprue to add to add to the Nob model and turn it into a Big Mek or Bad Dok could be fun though.

But the Beakies got a new plastic Scout Missile Launcher even though they only just got a metal one...Yeah I know it's wishful thinking.



HERESY *sharpens Choppa*

Ok you can have your silly burna boyz. See if I care.

*runs off crying and farting at the same time*



I really dislike Orks having to Loot weapons from other races in the first place, so Id remove their Imperial options (''stoopid oomie junk'') and give them old-skool kustom big shootas instead.

Actually I agree. I would scrap Lootas altogether.


The choppa rule was bought in to help Orks against heavy infantry without overpowering them against lighter infantry... a -1 ASM just powers them up against everything. Besides, Heavy CCW is in the universal rules from the BGB, so it's almost certainly staying.

I just think it's a wee bit daft that a choppa is more effective against Terminator armour than flak armour.


Randomness is a good thing in an Ork army! MA needs to count as 2 models in a transport too.

The randmoness as I explained is a wee bit daft. Nobz are hamstrung by Mega Armour quite a bit, but an Independent Character is not, because he rolls 3 dice for movement and combined with a Megaboosta is statistically going to go forward 6 inches.

I agree about the counts as 2 models in a transport.


For certain items, yes. Shouldn't just be used as an excuse to give Nobz cheaper items though - with 3 S4 attacks on the statline, and 29 ablative Boyz to catch bullets and chainblades for him, Nobz arguably get better value from something like a Power Claw than the Warboss!

Once again I was applying a "Marines do it" ideology. Marines usually serve ablative wounds for a Power Fist equipped Sergeant. So a Marine Sergeant gets a lot more value from a power fist than a captain or even chaplain, yet pays less. It's the same situation in the Chaos Codex.

So why should Orks be penalised while the Marines get the good stuff.

I actually think that the powerfist should've stayed at full points in the Marine/Chaos codexes as well.


My Warboss has an Ooge Choppa, so nerr. And surely the point of a new codex is to fix the things that are broken, not just bin them?

My ideas was that Huge Choppas count as Power Klaws.

malika
30-05-2006, 00:39
Meks form small workshops and build most of the small arms and light machines the orks use.

Meks also build the big stuff, yes they build the small stuff in large amounts, do you think craftmanship will supply an army of billions of warriors with enough weapons and other equipment?


This is how alot of third world nations build small arms IRL. A gunsmith can easily build three or four AK-47s a day.

They mostly buy weapons from industrialised nations such as Russia, the US and France.


Factories are run by Slaverz and nobz who aint got time for a Meks tomfoolery. They are also much rarer.
Why wouldnt a Mek be able to run a factory? He would probably work together with Slaverz or simply pays the Gretchins to work for him. He would probably also have other boys under him who woul boss around the Gobbos, you dont needs Slaverz and Nobz for that.


Thats why looted vehicles are a 0-1 option.
I thought it was a mixture of game balance and the simple fact that most of the time a looted vehicle would be so badly damaged that its recycled into other Ork vehicles.


Meks don't get their hands on imperial factories because Meks are smaller than Nobz/Warbosses and the warboss will be damned if some Mek tinkerz wif his loot.
The Boss will still need a figure with some form of technological knowledge to work the factory.


Thats why Warbosses often exhile meks (like Wazdakka Gutzmek)
I thought that was one of the few examples. Meks are a critical part of ork society, without them there wouldnt be enough weapons and supplies to stage any sort of military campaign. I dont see a Boss exiling all the Meks because they are smaller...

Zzarchov
30-05-2006, 00:46
Meks are a huge portion of ork society and they are able to supply billions of warriors. A hundred Million Meks in workshops can easily supply 5 billion orks.

And it is humans with the technical knowledge who work for the Warboss and his slavers. Stated right in the Codex.

If you don't like the idea of your Orks looting, simply don't. But to me its integral to the ork way of warfare.

I think the idea of Space Marine Scouts are stupid, but I wouldn't try and say Marines should lose scouts.

Lord Lucifer
30-05-2006, 03:38
@ Lord Lucifer and that IS all the new ork fluff.

Remember old ork Fluff? All their Tech came a captured STC? Gretchin had their own empires and could lead orks into battle. Orks weren't fungus creatures grown around, but rather when orks hit a breeding age, they gained a gender and had a family. Whom they would raise and educate? The big clans were actually feudal bloodlines not genetic abnormalities?

Orkoid spores did not grow other orks, let alone Grots or Squigs (a feral Tyranid organism). Meks and Doks were not born with genetic knowledge, but were trained on STC knowledge (hence their complete use of imperial weapons).

All of this modern stuff came in Gorka Morka, which became the basis for 3rd Ed Orks.
Last I checked, Codex: Orks ('94), and Waaagh! Da Orks, 'Ere We Go, and Freeboterz ('90/'91) pre-date Gorkamorka (Orktober '97) and Codex Orks ('99)
Everything I mentioned in my first post on this thread, were present in those publications, which pre-date the 3rd ed. codex by up to 10 years
Even Sporing. Read 'Ere We Go, under the Shokk Attack Gun, about snotlings setting up Orkoid breeding colonies through sporing. It's there, I read it this morning while having breakfast.
Meks and Doks had innate knowledge encoded into their DNA by the Brainboyz.
Gretchin were a downtrodden underclass who only managed 'empires' of a handful of Grots when the warband or tribe moved on without telling the little blighters
Orks are, and always were genderless, and when they reach breeding age they regress mentally to an almost animal state, so it'd be impossible for them to teach their offspring anything. The offspring would either wander into Ork territory, or be actively tracked down by a nearby Ork settlement, with no idea about society or pretty much anything. Hence the term 'wildboys' (and this background is not incompatible with the Sporing background, especially considering both were mentioned during 1st ed.)
The clans were never feudal in nature (at least, not since the aforementioned three codexes Waaagh! Da Orks, 'Ere We Go, and Freebooterz), a tribe would comprise of elements of each.


And I want this background brought back.
Meaning, I want it put in the bloody codex!


I suppose one could take the fact that Ork background has to be tracked down to OOP books and carried on through verbal tradition as an appropriately thematic method of explaining the Ork history to new players, but it'd be much better if new players could actually learn about their army in their actual codex (those that complained about all the background present in their codex books wanted to pay less for a smaller book... the books got smaller but they didn't benefit from much of a reduction in cost)




All the background you believe was duly executed when the third edition Codex rolled around, was actually executed before the first ed. Ork Codex books were published, some 15 years ago.
2nd ed. tidied it up.
3rd ed. ignored it.

Chem-Dog
30-05-2006, 03:39
Shok Attak Gunz

They should be re-included, deffinitely, it's the first thing I was ever shot with in my first ever game of 40K.

Lord Lucifer
30-05-2006, 03:48
So why aren't Ork armies equipped with bolters and lasguns, if they have these Imp factories pumping out millions of guns? Instead they seem to prefer individually cobbled together Shootas and Sluggas.

And ok, I can buy captured facilities being able to mass produce Rhinos and Russes, but do you really suggest that any of them remain 'factory specification' for more than 5 minutes after a Mek gets his hands on it?

Tim
Ork armies are outfitted with Bolters.
Except with minor redesigns to improve ergonomics (make it easier to hold and opperate).
And of course, less lovingly maintained.


This means effectiveness is slightly reduced.
So we've got Bolters that act as AP6 rather than AP5 :(

As for Lasguns, they're hardly impressive enough. The little weedy zapping and fizzing is far too weak, and they don't do impressive amounts of damage. Although upgraded 'bigger-bang' Lasguns are an option, they tend to electrocute their wielder :p


And Rhinos and Russes DO get butchered and cannibalised, bit by bit, which is why there's a malfunction table for captured vehicles :D


Meks don't naturally like mass-producing weapons and wargear, individual tinkering is more fun.
Grots are pretty naff at building things that work efficiently and reliably.
Human tribute is useful, though, and Meks may refit an Imperial factory to suitably Orky designs. Sometimes an improvement, sometimes not

IncubiLord
30-05-2006, 06:55
My biggest request for Ork models is a $50 box of vehicle bits.

If they make the bits right, it should be able to produce 3 traks and buggies, OR 2 wartrukks, OR 1 battlewagon (with some leftover bits).

Other than that, I'm with Lord Lucifer: Bring back the 2ed Orky goodness!

Ill Eagle
30-05-2006, 09:33
I'd love to see a box that comes with a variety of weapons. A few different looking powerclaws, rokkit launchas and such. Maybe something similar for vehicle weapons.

Killgore
30-05-2006, 10:30
I want more atention payed to the Elements of Ork society that love big techie shooty guns, 3rd ed Ork codex was to obsessed with hand to hand combat


Also I want rules for customisable Special Mek Weapons, so you can possibly for the right points cost make a anti infantry 2D6 megabolter type thing or a Anti-Tank laser weapon of doom- after all, all mek weapons are individual and differnt and there could be good potentual for comedy as the things blow up


And bring in the Stomper! we'v seen the concepts, i want the model! would make a great upgrade for the Battlewagon or as a seperate vehicle entry.

Sir_Turalyon
30-05-2006, 12:20
I would love to see a "morker" plastic sprues and box, to complement "gorker" sprue availiable.

Present sprues (savage culturist orks in leather pants) is good to represent more feral and less technologicaly inclined klans (I call them gorker klans), like goffs, maybe dethskullz (they don't care what they wear so long as it's blue) and especially snakebites. However, it does not fit other three klans - they are less brutal and more technology inclined (or richer and having more tech in case of Bad Moonz). They could use more civilised, clothered models, clothing providing room to paint cammo with for Blood Axes, looking 'xpansive for showoff Bad Moons and looking mekanical for Evil Sunz. I imagine such models wearing real pants and jackets, hats or much less crude helmets and advanced, non-combat accesories like googles and tools. Generic enough to be painted as members of three "morker" klanz.

Plastic biker's clothing is not bad place to start.

Agrees with basicaly everything Lord Lucifer said.

As for bringing old statline back, it's where morker/gorker division comes useful again... you are eighter savage killing mashine who runs around with bare chest (or worse!) or ded shooty sneaky clothered git. Both are very orky; too many people here seem to believe that you need to be gorky to be orky... nothing more wrong.

EDIT: Kriegsherr, great line. Mind if I borrow it?

WarbossKurgan
30-05-2006, 12:39
@Sir_Turalyon - I couldn't disagree more!

The 40K Ork plastics are the "more technology inclined" ones - the fantasy Orc plastics do fine for the more primative Orks!

Please don't bring back the old statline! I love WS4 BS2!! To me Shootier Orks means more Orks shooting, not more accurate Ork shooting!

Gethalorre
30-05-2006, 13:00
^^^ What he said ;) (And I play Blood Axes)

MadJackMcJack
30-05-2006, 13:09
Plus the sheer size of sluggaz and shootaz means that recoil must be a bitch. Given that Orks fire on full auto, you can forget about any accuracy.

An idea. Seeing as how Ork shooting seems to be as much about creating as much noise and smoke as possible as about hitting something, how about shoota mobs causing pinning? Make them the same price as sluggaz to compensate maybe?

Sir_Turalyon
30-05-2006, 14:08
MadJackMcJack: sounds very good.

WarbossKurgan: Snakebites and Goffs are closer to fantasy Orcs with mashine guins then to organised Blood Axes or vehicle crazy Evil SUnz. Besides, I'm not talking about replacing current statline, but bringing both together, as alternatives, in army list. For instance

- Core Gorker Boyz unit (Codex Shoota Boyz with upgrade to Slugga Boyz)

- Elite Morker Boyz units (Savage Ork Huntas with (rarely if ever used) upgrade to sluggas and choppas option).

- ability to swap gorkers to elite and morkers to core if army is led by Big Mek or Painboss or/ not yet described Morker boss.

Lord Lucifer
30-05-2006, 14:22
Please don't bring back the old statline! I love WS4 BS2!!

To be clear, when I say bring back the old Ork statline, I don't mean 'get rid of the new one'

Look at the Feral Ork and Snakebite lists, two (at least partially) official army lists where both stat-lines are used.


And not all Orks are crap shots. In fact, with the amount of practice they'd get in, they have little reason to be any worse than humans


I mean, in all seriousness, BS3 is hardly elite!

Kriegsherr
30-05-2006, 15:36
First of all.... woah, I'm sigged :) Of course I don't mind.

Second: I want shootier orks. I for my part are happy with any reasonable solution they come up with.

May it be that shootas get assault 2 per default because they are so shooty and the orks fire away even when running and don't aim even when standing, they get pinning because they are so loud and shooty, or the boyz carrying them get a profile similar to huntas because they just use the shootas more often than boyz with choppaz.

I also want to see more different types of weapons for orkses. And no, not more imperial weapons used by orks. Even if the "Nuke-kannon" is nothing more than a multi-melta, maybe with some small rule tweaks. its a orky "Nuke-kannon" and not a multi-melta looted from the oomie pansies. Small work big difference.
I for my part want a super-lobba... something like the griffons mortar. Would be plain hillarious. But thats just me ;)

I think the new fluff has to stay... just bring the old one back and mix it with the new.
The fungy way of reproduction is plain brilliant. Why should every race use the stoopid sexual way of reproduction when there are so many other, better ways to use? Just a small little thing to make them more alien, to move them away from the "orcs in space" (But even they would be better with the fungus thing... why shouldn't a fantasy race have asexual reproduction?).
And of course, I like the mad max / rocker image of the new orks. Blend them a little bit with old 1st / 2nd WW clothing, especially bomber crew and the like for the spead freaks, and they look ace.
I think, its absolute possible to bring back old favorites like the shokk attack gun and some of the old silly- and whackiness without making the orcs complete clowns again.
THAT would make me completly happy.

Lord Lucifer
30-05-2006, 15:51
I think the new fluff has to stay... just bring the old one back and mix it with the new.
What new fluff?
They spored in 1st edition too, Codex Orks ('99) simply examined it closer
And they've always had a Mad Max/rocker image. They just have better sculpting techniques and capabilities now.
And the only people who ever thought the Orks were clowns were those that didn't know the Orks particularly well in the first place, and they think they're clowns now

Kriegsherr
30-05-2006, 16:43
What new fluff?
They spored in 1st edition too, Codex Orks ('99) simply examined it closer
And they've always had a Mad Max/rocker image. They just have better sculpting techniques and capabilities now.
And the only people who ever thought the Orks were clowns were those that didn't know the Orks particularly well in the first place, and they think they're clowns now

Well... some guys seem to dislike the whole fungus idea they presented in codex ork 3rd ed.

Its true theres not a lot more fluff in it. But when I started in 2nd ed orks where clowns. Might have something to do with the insane way the eavy metal team painted the minis back them (seriously, where they on drugs? Nothing against colourfullness, but every ork boy or space marine was on the way of becoming a harlequine back then. And the true harlequins... ah, my eyes!). But then again, also there were a lot of sillyness in the ork dex. Some of it I found hilarious (like the weirdboy communicating his wishes for more squigs for dinner to an imperial princeps :)). Some was over the top silly.
Now they didn't add much in 3rd ed, but by ommitting something on purpose while just shortening other things you also can "rewrite" fluff. They just "rewritten" to much, instead of rewrite it (as in "Take old fluff, throw out to big sillyness, add new depth and update the whole stuff to fit into fluff of other armies").

A well, to make a short summary: I want new, consistent fluff, were some of the fun of 2nd ed is mixed with the grimmness of 3rd ed orks.

Helicon_One
30-05-2006, 17:00
Still too expensive. I have to buy useless IG boxsets and boxes of Gnoblars. That's AUD$100 (US$76/GB 40 pounds) for a unit that costs less tha 100 points. That's insanely expensive.
Nononono, you buy Gnoblar box sets and then go pester your IG/SM playing mates for the spare laspistols and things out of their bitz box!Or at a push, you mail order a few of these (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=9947059903501&orignav=300808) (although, granted, I get the impression that MO is a problem for you guys down in Australia).


But the Beakies got a new plastic Scout Missile Launcher even though they only just got a metal one...Yeah I know it's wishful thinking.
Especially because orks aren't Marines...


Ok you can have your silly burna boyz. See if I care.
Actually, I don't have any, but that doesn't mean they don't have their place.


I just think it's a wee bit daft that a choppa is more effective against Terminator armour than flak armour.
It is a bit, but I can live with it.


Nobz are hamstrung by Mega Armour quite a bit, but an Independent Character is not, because he rolls 3 dice for movement and combined with a Megaboosta is statistically going to go forward 6 inches.
Mega armour being slowmoving and clunky kinda suits the feel of it though, I think. Yeah, it gets a bit fiddly with ICs and megaboostas, but not cripplingly so. Besides, in my version Megaboostas just grant Move Through Cover anyway (and normal infantry movement to lone ICs).


Once again I was applying a "Marines do it" ideology. Marines usually serve ablative wounds for a Power Fist equipped Sergeant. So a Marine Sergeant gets a lot more value from a power fist than a captain or even chaplain, yet pays less. It's the same situation in the Chaos Codex.
IMO 4th Ed has deliberately moved to discourage ICs from taking power fists - a big crushing fist is very much a crude blunt instrument, not nearly as sexy or heroic as a big power sword or a pair of lightning claws.


My ideas was that Huge Choppas count as Power Klaws.
Possible, but Ooge choppas just look way cool, so they should stay in for that reason alone.

Tim

Vet.Sister
30-05-2006, 17:03
I also want the older slightly 'wacky' shooting stuff back in the list. I think it would add a new dimension to the 3rd Ed list.
I'd also love to see the warboss get access to an initiative based power weapon.(ie. I don't wanna go last just to be sure I can do some damage):mad:
I like the idea of customizable vehicles and squads via specialty sprues.

I guess what I miss most is the traktor kannon. Now that was funny!:evilgrin:

MacVurrich
30-05-2006, 17:04
I would like to See Battlewagon avaiable to Warbosses as there Transport not Just KoS ones.

Lord Lucifer
30-05-2006, 17:59
Kriegsherr, what are the 'clown' items of background you're referring to?

I didn't notice too much being over-the-top

Damien 1427
30-05-2006, 18:06
Also I want rules for customisable Special Mek Weapons, so you can possibly for the right points cost make a anti infantry 2D6 megabolter type thing or a Anti-Tank laser weapon of doom- after all, all mek weapons are individual and differnt and there could be good potentual for comedy as the things blow up

I'd imagine a selection of base-weapons, with a variety of upgrades for each catergory. You could have a misfire chart taken every time the thing is fired, with a modifier for the number of upgrades taken.

shaw3029
30-05-2006, 18:19
New Battlewagon
New Tracks and Trucks
New Crew for the bikes & Buggys.

And make them all big enough to fit the right amount of orks. Not just two orks like the current ones.

Dont get rid of burna boys (just because some guy cant find a use for them)
Dont get rid of the big chopper.
Change the chopper rule. Definetly make it a minus 1 save. So your not killing terminators as easy as storm troopers. Ridiculous that is!

And for gods sake. I know its unlikely to happen any time soon. But Dont remodel all the orks entirly. I hated them when they first came out. But now they have grown on me. And no way do I want to take the whole army over again just Because the basic troops are diffrent.

Bring back some of the old background. I went out and brought all the old ork books, Free booters, Waargh the orks and er we go. Cost a bomb but there worth it.

And makari, I was so disappointed when he didnt turn up. I dont care if hes not in but tell me what happened to the lucky little chap.

Do diffrent clan lists, Similiar to the space marines and imperial gaurd doctrine lists. Speed freaks, bad moons, We miss them all and we want the works. Not just your gorkas and your morkas and there buggys that are tiny.

Maybe some new dreadnoughts but that pushing it a bit. There cool as they are. A stompa would be wicked, But I cant see it working to well. Unless its released along side the plastic baneblade.

Bring back some of the old weopons, Yeah some are annoying and slow dont need to bring them all back though. I remmeber my squad of marines stuck to the floor for a whole game because of a pulser rockit, And I remember some kids ragnar blackman getting rapped by a shock attack gun.

Basically, Give them some new vehicles. And give them there character back. Because the last codex just sucked the life out of them. And I think Games Workshop knows it.

RobC
30-05-2006, 18:28
For the record, orks did not spore in 1st edition. Waaargh the Orks! clearly states that they were marsupials who reproduced asexually at the end of their natural lifespan.

The first mention of spore-spawning was in Gorkamorka, not before.

shaw3029
30-05-2006, 18:34
OH CRAP!! cant believe I forgot this.


Weird Boys!! Bring back the weird boy. They look great, There powers can be crappy I dont care. The weird boy has so much character. Was so cool.

And plastic Gretchin. Should do them like the new goblins that will be coming out in the new warhammer boxed set. Just stick aload in a box and give them multiple poses. And your done.

Not sure if there sell well. But they made plastic scouts for god sake

Kriegsherr
30-05-2006, 22:53
was the shokk attack gun the one with the ball and chain bullets that sprang around randomly? I want that back! It was hilarious :)

RobC
30-05-2006, 22:59
No, that was the Hop-splat. The Shokk Attack gun launched snotlings through the warp into unsuspecting vehicles and terminators.

I doubt there will ever be a period of creativity as sustained and fruitful as that when the three ork books (Waaargh the Orks!, 'Ere We Go, Freebooterz) were written. Pure, zany, genius.

Kriegsherr
30-05-2006, 23:05
No, that was the Hop-splat. The Shokk Attack gun launched snotlings through the warp into unsuspecting vehicles and terminators.

I doubt there will ever be a period of creativity as sustained and fruitful as that when the three ork books (Waaargh the Orks!, 'Ere We Go, Freebooterz) were written. Pure, zany, genius.

Ah yeah. I forgot.

Pure orky insanity :)

Lord Lucifer
31-05-2006, 03:04
For the record, orks did not spore in 1st edition. Waaargh the Orks! clearly states that they were marsupials who reproduced asexually at the end of their natural lifespan.

The first mention of spore-spawning was in Gorkamorka, not before.

I thought so too, but it IS mentioned in 'Ere We Go

'Ere We Go
Page 108, second paragraph on the right column, Snotling colonies through sporing.

Doesn't go into anywhere near as much detail, but it's there.
The first explanation for the Orkoid's 'mobile Orkology' ecological system :D

And for the record, I don't think the two breeding forms are incompatible at all.



Krieg, which items of previously published background did you consider over-the-top?

cailus
31-05-2006, 08:37
Maybe some new dreadnoughts but that pushing it a bit. There cool as they are. A stompa would be wicked, But I cant see it working to well. Unless its released along side the plastic baneblade.

My idea is actually to keep the same Dread model but to make it plastic thereby making it easily convertable and less prone to chipping and setting off airport metal detectors.

lord_blackfang
31-05-2006, 09:56
What if Orks, like Eldar, are only allocated 4 new plastic codes? Which new plastics would you like to see, in order of importance?

For me:

1) Trukk
2) Bikes
3) Battlewagon
4) Buggy

If they manage to create a modular set with two or more of the above, I'd add
5) Nobs
6) Grots

Kriegsherr
31-05-2006, 10:33
Krieg, which items of previously published background did you consider over-the-top?

A well, hard to say... has been sometime since I read my 2nd ed ork dex the last time.... in fact I have to go searching for my 2nd ed dexes right now. After I read it again, I might be able to give more accurate answers. Right now its a little bit vague and blurry.

I just know right now, there where hilarious parts and rather over-the-top parts in the old dex.

But I will stop my fluff rants until I reread the old fluff, I promise.

shaw3029
31-05-2006, 12:43
Only four plastic sets.

Id want In order.

Trucks.
Battlewagon.
Tracks.
Bikes.

The Bikes would be alst because. Although there very old they are still great models. The only thing they need is a new rider. But thats easy to convert yourself.

RobC
01-06-2006, 19:44
I thought so too, but it IS mentioned in 'Ere We Go
'Ere We Go
Page 108, second paragraph on the right column, Snotling colonies through sporing.
You had me going there for a second!

Read the passage again. It does not mention that snotlings spread through sporing, merely the fungus and fungus-like creatures (squigs). Given that snotlings absolutely love fungus and spend half their time in the drops collecting the stuff, it's perhaps no surprise that their filthy little bodies have more than a few spores on them.

Then again, there are fungoid snotlings - but that's another matter entirely...

Lord Lucifer
02-06-2006, 02:43
Yes, but the precedent is set, correct? :)

RobC
02-06-2006, 20:50
Not quite. Snotlings only went fungoid through too much fungus consumption. And it didn't allow them to procreate, merely turn into weird snotling/fungus mushrooms that probably didn't taste very nice.

Captain Optimus Metallus
03-06-2006, 05:30
A couple things I'd love to see:

1. Different levels for your leader. Space Marines have the following:

SPACE MARINE COMMANDER
Master
Captain

I'd like Orks to have the following:

ORK WARLORD
Warboss
Big Boss

I was never a fan of EVERY Ork army having a Warboss, so it'd be nice to have a weaker leader. And frankly, I love the title of "Big Boss". ;) Gives me an excuse to go "Here comes the Big Boss. WA! WA! Let's get it on" in the middle of a game. :D

2. Bring back Wyrdboys! I loved those crazy Ork psychic powers.

3. Bring back the clans. A trait system for Orks would be nice, and highly fluffy, especially for Orks. I want to see a difference between Goff, Bad Moon, and other clans. At least Ork hordes which consist of solely one clan. One thing I missed was seeing a mixed Clan Ork army. Goffs running down into close combat while Deathskulls provided long-range support, Blood Axes infiltrated ahead, etc.

That's all I got for now.

Zzarchov
03-06-2006, 05:53
Orks have CA Klan rules.

Lord Lucifer
03-06-2006, 07:00
Not quite. Snotlings only went fungoid through too much fungus consumption. And it didn't allow them to procreate, merely turn into weird snotling/fungus mushrooms that probably didn't taste very nice.
I meant the precedent for sporing itself, not for the shared links with fungus.

A combination of natural and spored reproduction makes the most sense from a survival view.

IncubiLord
03-06-2006, 07:31
Definitely get the grot sprue in the 4 plastic codes.

Each sprue should contain 10 different single-part gretchin in various poses (who really wants to build eighty multi-part grots?), the bits to make a Slaver with Grabba Stik (though that needs updated), and two 1-or-2-part squighounds (no need for an overly-complex squig-dog).

12 one-part models and 1 multi-part Ork should all fit on one sprue.
Pack 4 of these in a box and sell it at the normal full-sized-squad-box price. Grots become cheap enough to play.

Add the multi-vehicle kit to fill out another 2 codes (it's 3 different units and only one box - should work with twice the normal sprue space).

Make an upgrades kit with all the goodies to turn the basic boyz box into Burna Boyz/Tankbustas/Stikk Bommas/'Ard boyz/Skarboyz.

Cut those sprues so that people can order one of Skarboyz/Burna Boyz bitz or one of 'Ard Boyz/Tankbustas bitz and decorate both sprues liberally with stikkbombs.

There's my 4.

Helicon_One
03-06-2006, 13:50
Definitely get the grot sprue in the 4 plastic codes.

Each sprue should contain 10 different single-part gretchin in various poses (who really wants to build eighty multi-part grots?), the bits to make a Slaver with Grabba Stik (though that needs updated), and two 1-or-2-part squighounds (no need for an overly-complex squig-dog).

12 one-part models and 1 multi-part Ork should all fit on one sprue.
Pack 4 of these in a box and sell it at the normal full-sized-squad-box price. Grots become cheap enough to play.
As an alternative, what if each Ork sprue had a couple of Grots on it - same as Nids get Rippers and Necrons get Scarabs? I just don't know if Grots are high enough up the priority list, sadly.

Tim

Pilgrimsp
03-06-2006, 17:34
I have it on pretty good knowledge that power axes are in the new ork dex.

Sheena Easton
03-06-2006, 17:50
I'd like to see:

A two or three tiered HQ so you have
Big Boss (Nob with slight stat increase - for small games)
Warboss (as now)
Warlord (with the T5)

Return of Wierdboyz & Warpheadz

Return of Tinboyz, Shokk Attack Gun & Snotz

Cyborkz toned down (T4) and with more options.

Stormboyz able to mob up with other Stormboyz, turbo swoop as standard

Flash Gitz must take one kustom job (included in basic cost) to stop the min/maxing 5 strong 5 BS mob. Upgrades to other kustom jobs / Eavy Weapons slightly cheaper, Mega Blasta as 'Eavy Weapon choice

Stikkbommaz cheaper and able to swap Krak Stikkbombz for Tankbusta Bombz instead of paying the full cost.

'Uge Choppaz & Mega Blasta as Eavy Weapon options for appropriate mobz

Make 'Uge Choppaz viable

Boarboyz in Codex

Definative list of lootable Weapons & Vehicles including points cost (ideally dropping the ridiculous Looted Basilisk from the list and banning it forever unless its a Blood Axe army and even then it should cost more than a Monolith)

Return of Kustom Kombi-Weaponz for Deathskull Looterz

Gunwagonz in Codex (proppa Orky Tankz)

Full list for Klanz, Speed Freakz & Feralz including proppa Snakebites that aren't a broken mix of the best of the Codex & best of Feralz.

Plastic Grotz.

Decent Slaver, Mek, Dok models that aren't repackaged Gorkamorka models.

New Trukk, Trakk & Buggy models with decent crew & full weapons options*

New Bike models with decent riders*

Gunwagon & Guntrukk models*

Plastic Kanz & Dreadz - models that don't take litres of superglue and lots of swearing to put together only to find that they are bending over backwards and firing into mid air or recreating the karma sutra :wtf:

Basic Battlewagon Kit - something that can be constructed to make a basic tabletop useable Battlewagon complete with weapon options & krew that can be easily expanded / kustomised by more experienced modellers.*

Gubbinz kit for vehicles - containing bitz for kustomising all Ork & looted vehicles with Krew, Grot Riggerz, Bolt-Ons, Wrecker ballz etc, Armour Platez, Glyphz...*

*interchangeable bitz

Klan specific boxed sets / Gubbinz packs

Zzarchov
03-06-2006, 18:07
'Uge choppas are viable

For Slavers and Doks in a Retinue. It SHOULDN'T be viable as a warboss or nob weapon anymore than a shoota or twin sluggas. Give your Boss a Klaw.

Toppan
03-06-2006, 19:32
from the feral side of the world, here i come

madboyz rock, add tons of flavor to the army, put em in the new codex for all clans and maybe improve them
boars, super cyboars and cyboars are all awesome, but keep them to snakebites and ferals...i dont think bad moons like boars
snotlings like the gretchin in the codex now
gretchin like scouts in SM codex
trukks that can actually hold enough models to say that it can
uge choppas have some sort of use
i think the stat line is ok
ork weapons need some sort of boost to go against armor, that way we dont need to rely on this one squad to take out tanks
something like the night goblin fanatic in fantasy?
thats all i got for now...i think that just put clan books out like marines have chapter books, and just revamp the new codex, we're all fine. with more fluff of course

Sheena Easton
03-06-2006, 20:48
'Uge choppas are viable

For Slavers and Doks in a Retinue. It SHOULDN'T be viable as a warboss or nob weapon anymore than a shoota or twin sluggas. Give your Boss a Klaw.

:wtf: It should be viable for Nobz & Bosses since they have the option of taking it. Unless an option is both a worthwhile and competetive choice (in terms of points and game usefullness) to every last model that can take it then I do not consider it to be viable - the 'Uge Choppa does not fit those criteria.

Furthermore I do NOT want to "give my boss a klaw" - none of my Warboss models have Klaws and I have no intention of converting them to have a Klaw either. I would like to be able to use the 'Uge Choppa armed Nobz & Boss I have as 'Uge Choppas and for them to be useful - the same way I want to be able to walk into the nearest GW and buy a couple of Battlewagon boxes, several Buggies with Twin Rokkitz and Plastic Grotz.

Wolf Scout Ewan
03-06-2006, 21:08
I miss the old ork rules... I just havnt used them since v2.

Some kind of doctrines traits system to allow "propa" clanz.

Do away with the psycho close combat thing. WS4? No way! Freaking choppas should only get their lower armour thing on a roll of six... or lower the WS to 3.

Orks just dont play like they are supposed to... a mix of hth and shooting not psycho assault!

My Wish List:
New Plastics
Warboss in plastic
Plastic grots and snots (same box) 4 swarms of the lil buggers per box of 20 grots.
Renew plastic boyz mob so there are only 2 boxes:
slugga Boyz
shoota Boyz
Each box has enough bits to make a shooty type mob or choppin' mob. Nob bitz and squad support weapon on accessories sprue.
"Box of bitz" 2 sprues with kustom jobs and bits like stikkbombs etc.
Trax Box... a box to make 3 trax or 1 ooge trak
Trux Box... a box to make three or four buggiez or 2 trux.
Redesigns
Shokk attack Gun!
Kopta's

Rulez
All this power of the waagh and double initiative and mobbing up needs looking at. Boyz are not better than marines statwise its all about the numbers. ATM orks are too much of a no brainer run at the enemy and hit em wiv j00r axes ladz! type of thing.

Magic choppas is just stoopid.

Warlord Kyle
03-06-2006, 22:11
mek boyz should be able to jury rig wreaked viechles to explode, this would be amazingly funny:chrome:

Helicon_One
05-06-2006, 19:19
Blatant pluggery time - I just posted my homebrew Codex in Rules Dev, would appreciate any comments there:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38069

Tim

Kriegsherr
05-06-2006, 19:44
huntaz as standart shoota boyz.

Me wants shooty orkzez back!




Blatant pluggery time - I just posted my homebrew Codex in Rules Dev, would appreciate any comments there:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38069

Tim


Some Orks should have BS3, the ability to get BS3 or something along the line. but everything else looks great... I hope they take some inspiration from this, whoever writes the new dex.

Zzarchov
05-06-2006, 19:47
:wtf: It should be viable for Nobz & Bosses since they have the option of taking it. Unless an option is both a worthwhile and competetive choice (in terms of points and game usefullness) to every last model that can take it then I do not consider it to be viable - the 'Uge Choppa does not fit those criteria.

Furthermore I do NOT want to "give my boss a klaw" - none of my Warboss models have Klaws and I have no intention of converting them to have a Klaw either. I would like to be able to use the 'Uge Choppa armed Nobz & Boss I have as 'Uge Choppas and for them to be useful - the same way I want to be able to walk into the nearest GW and buy a couple of Battlewagon boxes, several Buggies with Twin Rokkitz and Plastic Grotz.

As I stated, the 'Uge choppa is as viable for a boss already as twin sluggas or a shoota, both options also allowed for your boss.

This doesn't mean that a shoota should now count as an additional close combat weapon and a power weapon in one so that its not a waste to give your boss one.

If you wanna give your Boss an 'Uge choppa do it, it doesn't NEED to be the most effective weapon, or even effective, for you to use it. I give my Trukkboyz nob an 'Uge choppa because I like it, even though a claw is better. I gave my Painboss while I used him Two sluggas, just because I thought it looked cool. This doesn't mean I want holding two sluggas to be some awesome super combo, no one forced me to take it.

Edit: Note, by your logic a Powerklaw is not viable for an ork army since a slaver or any other character with the stats of a base ork, it is a waste for its points.