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Dyne the Destroyer
29-05-2006, 07:02
so i have decided to start a dark eldar army. but the people in the gw store i go to have told me that, and i quote, "they are the worst army that Games Workshop has ever made, and you will never be able to win with them" well i consider myself a pretty good player and after reading the codex i think that they have a lot of potential, and i wanted some more views, so any input would be much apreciated

Dyne the Destroyer

Orbital
29-05-2006, 07:06
Dark Eldar rock and, in the hands of a skilled player, they're extremely lethal. The models aren't all lookers, that's for sure, and the rules could use some tweaks, but they're by no means the worst army GW has ever made. They are extremely unique and interesting and I, personally, think that they have a lot to offer. What's more, GW has stressed again and again that they will be completely remade from the ground up eventually, so investing in Dark Eldar now isn't a bad idea; it'll give you time to get to know them before the new stuff is out (which is a while off).

cailus
29-05-2006, 07:07
Quite clearly the people in the shop are what we in the industry call "clueless *********."

I have been beaten by the Dark Eldar on many an occassion. I have used the army twice (once against Nids and once agains 3rd ed Tau) and won both times.

The Dark Eldar are very fast and lethal but also very vulnerable to shooting.

Orbital
29-05-2006, 07:11
Remember, what makes a good army isn't if it can destroy everything on the table while being invulnerable to every attack. What makes a good army is the way that it makes a player think and what it challenges him or her to do.

What I'd suggest is that you write to head office and say "I was in the store at (address) speaking to (names) and they told me that the Dark Eldar was the worst army ever. As I was thinking of buying an army, I was glad to hear this and have since decided to keep my money. I wanted to let you know that I am grateful to the staff at that store for warning me off of purchasing the Dark Eldar army and am writing to you today to ask you to make sure that you know I'll be spreading the word to my friends. Thanks for training your staff to take such good care of the customers who come into the store with questions."

...and see how that goes.

Dyne the Destroyer
29-05-2006, 07:21
it wasnt the staff that told the dark eldar army was bad it was some of the veterans. one of the staff members actually played dark eldar and said this to me. "everyone has a army that appeals to them so i cant tell you if you would or would not like this army, but what i can do is let you borrow my codex, read it over and then decide for yourself if you want to do it, because in the end its not whether you win or lose as long as YOU enjoy playing the army. thats how i became in possesion of the codex for the night. thanks for the input guys you have been a big help cant wait to order my new army

The Dude
29-05-2006, 07:25
Let me guess, the Vet who said this plays Iron Warriors? ;)

jansuza
29-05-2006, 07:45
I have to say that I think DE is one of the best armies in the game, especially when you want to go for anti-MEq. I struggle to count how many DE-Marine games have ended in two/three turns. Just the other day, I won the SA regionals with my Dark Eldar, and that was me just randomly trying something new.

Sure, the models need a revamp, and GW will eventually change our codex to be completely different, but for now, if you can find the models, its a great army to play.

noneedforaname
29-05-2006, 09:25
im currently working on a dark eldar army at the moment. The main thing with using them is they are difficult to use well but are very rewarding when you get it right and the chances of you facing another dark eldar army are virtually nill so it will add some variety to your gaming circle. Not all the models are that great but can be rejigged to look better. Follow the link in my sig (blatant plug) and you will see how i have decided to approach collecting dark eldar, though your ideas may well be something different and better.

zoggin-eck
29-05-2006, 09:41
nothing wrong with the dark eldar as far as I see. maybe the awful paint jobs in the codex were enough to put them off? seriously, if you give any army a fair go, you can win a few games. besides, I've thought of playing dark eldar just because nobody uses them :)

btw. there was an article in a recent white dwarf by a guy who is sick of people laughing at dark eldar, might be worth a look if you're unsure of their strengths

HPD_Andy
29-05-2006, 10:51
No, they're some of the uglies models in the game...except noneedforaname's, his are quite lovely. But I digress. I would have to say some of the best beatings I've seen have been at the hands of Dark Eldar army. Go for it.

Smoking Frog
29-05-2006, 13:11
"they are the worst army that Games Workshop has ever made, and you will never be able to win with them"

Whoever said that is a clueless dumbf***! Seriously, when you learn how to play the Dark Eldar, kick this guy's butt hard for me!

Firstly, if you like the Dark Eldar, despite their flaws, I recommend them 100% to anyone. They are flimsy and lack toughness. Their models generally look bad, with some notable exceptions. But used correctly you can make anyone suffer severe massacres. Converted and/or painted well, they can look kick-****!

You will suffer the first few games as you learn how to use the army. I promise you this much. I was smashed up when I started Dark Eldar, I was too used to Space Marines. but you'll discover just how valuable their speed and manouvrability are in combat, and their weapons are dangerous, very dangerous.

The best part? You don't have the same stigma as your Craftworld brothers for "cheesiness", even though they are essentially on par in the weapons department.

At the moment in the DE department, I'm going for a foot troop based DE army. I know I can win with my small raiding party, but I want a "Gangs of Comorragh" feel to my next DE army, see how that goes.

But yes, you have my full endorsement. Go forth and pillage!

HeraldoftheGods
29-05-2006, 14:35
"they are the worst army that Games Workshop has ever made, and you will never be able to win with them"
That's pricelesss, and it sounds exactly like the sort of thing said by somebody who has never faced Dark Eldar personaly and only plays with armies that have a 3+ save.
Fear the Dark Eldar, because they can rip the snot out of any opponent in the game. Truely one of the most dangerous armies that you'll ever play against.

My most memorable moment of playing Dark Eldar was when an opponent was bigging up his super hard chaos command squad. One deepstriking ravager with disintegrators later and all he had left was a badly wounded lord. They can't take much damage, but by god they can dish it out.

Typheron
29-05-2006, 14:36
i like dark eldar, they need finesse to use right as their armour is paper thin, but as has been said in the hands of the right person they make the other team die a lot.

its a thousand cuts of death thing.

plus you get to take prisoners, the look of dispair on your opponents face when you drag off his commander to be tortured in commeragh is totally worth it.

AmKhaibitu
29-05-2006, 14:48
I have around 2k worth of kabal I need to retrofit at some stage to work alongside my cult, and then I'm gold.

Only force to beat my cult was a kabal. I even ripped some orks to shreds in close combat... hello boyz!

Carnelian
29-05-2006, 15:07
what are the models that you guys like out of DE? I think the Lord models really suck but that the Incubi and Wyches look awesome!
I want a DE army but I only want good looking models. I'll have to wait for re-releases I think

super_steve
29-05-2006, 15:38
Well a friend of mine plays a grotesque (sp) DE army and it is rock hard not weak as only S 6 shooting can hurt them on board super fast hard to kill raiders so very mobile and surprisingly good in combat esp when his special charecter rakarth (sp) gets in the fray.
oh and DE wepons are EVIL!
i do believe he is unbeaten, so worst army GW do nope one of the best.

damz451
29-05-2006, 15:49
so i have decided to start a dark eldar army. but the people in the gw store i go to have told me that, and i quote, "they are the worst army that Games Workshop has ever made, and you will never be able to win with them" well i consider myself a pretty good player and after reading the codex i think that they have a lot of potential, and i wanted some more views, so any input would be much apreciated

Dyne the Destroyer


im araid that is utter bs, Dark eldar are possibly one of the most overpowered armies available. Insanely cheap units with great stats and are probobly the best cc and shooty armies about.

For instance, Incubi are the ultime cc units!, i had 3 of them wipe out a terminator assualt squad in one round of cc (better init, same strength and ws and a 3+ save!) .

The ravager, altho it has the same armour as a rhino it will tear a hole through most armour or infantry with ease, a trio of dark lances against any tank will hurt (cept the lith), or if u want anti meq get a trio of disintagrators! 9 ap3 shots will hurt any marine squad and if u want to be evil add a horrorfex and pin the rest of the squad :evilgrin:

Wyches, although they have a crap save they will tear apart any unit in cc!, add some warp beasts and your enemy will be in tears :skull:

Anyone who claims that the dark eldar are weak and crap has not faced against them

so far i have yet to have a game reach turn 4 simply because i have destroyed the enemy so quickly, best record was on 1 turn when i vapourised 1 raider, 2 preds, a dread and a tac squad and half a tac squad. The guy surrendered after his turn as all he had left was a few termies, 1 tac squad and small command squad and i had only lost half a dozen warriors.

if i'd live near ur store i'd go there just to kick their ass just for that comment (i mean kick their ass by defeating them in a game)

as for the models, yes they are pretty ugly, with excetion to their vehicles, bikes and incubi. I use craftworld eldar stuff in my army.

Wyches here
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5526/dsc000523hz.jpg
Use banshees and change their weapons. (you can also see my vyper type jetbike behind it)

Incubi and hq
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2618/dsc000536gr.jpg
(you can also see my converted lord with a sliced warrior at her feet)

so even though there are many ugly models the really good ones look great!

Griffin
29-05-2006, 16:02
Damn it - now i wanna play with the latex pixies too

LostTemplar
29-05-2006, 16:46
Dark Eldar are, what i like to call, a Veteran's Army. Like Mechanised Guard, or Storm Troopers, they are exceedingly hard to use. The keywords are terrain, and speed. Both of which, make the Dark Eldar list viable.

For starters, I play Dark Eldar, and even though I have lost once or twice, most of the games I played (Little under 10) I have won. Necrons, Space Marines, Chaos, etc. In essense, the issue with dark eldar, is the fact that they are very frail.

However...

They are also very cheap. Where, tell me, cal you get a single tank, capable of dishing out 3 plasma-gun plates per turn, at the mere cost of 120 points? If you equip it with the nightshield, something I personnaly view as obligatory, and keep it on the move, you need only fear the really longer ranged weapons. Which you should maneuver to exterminate asap. How?

Terrain.

Make it so that the tank only sees one or two models, one of which is the HW trooper. It'll certainlly kill everything, and your enemy cannot keep his HW from dying.

Next... The basic warrior.

For 8 points, you get a bargain. You can get 6 20 men squads, which will mean well over 120 models on the board, for less than 700 points. Guard anyone? With a exception!

For those menial extra two points, you get +1 BS, Ap5 Weapons, +2 I, and fleet! And the ability to have not one, two two heavy weapons on each squad. Each HW in itself being yet another bargain. Need ANti infantry. Splinter Cannon. Need a anti tank? Dark Lance. Blaster takes the place of the Meltagun, and shredder, well, it is like a flamer. Only worse. then you get to the real danger.

Sybarites, Succubus and lastly, but actually firstly, your Lords. They are possibly only surpassed by Tyrants, Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes and C'Tan, as they will have a all-round weapon, drugs to keep 'em up and running, and so on. Keep'em mobile, and prefreabely, grant the Lords Bikes or Raiders.

All in all, a very good, and fun army.

Lyinar
29-05-2006, 17:24
I'd have to say that if you consider doing a Dark Eldar army, you should ask around for bitz and get a LOT of Dark Elf Warrior heads...

They DEFINITELY look better on the Dark Eldar bodies than those five-foot-tall helmets, and keep the same feel, too. :)

I collected Dark Eldar right up until my combat patrol got annihilated by the 4th Edition rulebook... Literally. I dropped the box I was carrying them and the rulebook in, and it managed to land in such a way that the rulebook ended up causing some serious damage to the models.

Venomizer
29-05-2006, 18:23
"they are the worst army that Games Workshop has ever made, and you will never be able to win with them"

clearly whoever said this has never been on the wrong end of a Dark Eldar beating..........I'll just say it's not a preety sight for the recipient of said massacre

whilst the Dark Eldar die in the face of abit of rain, when you get the hang of them they turn into one of, if not the deadliest armies around

Wyches & Incubi IMO are argueably the best assault troops in the game and even the bog standard warrior is nothing to laugh at.

not to mention the Ravager with 3 disintegrators will have most MEQ armies in tears as they wipe out the best part of, if not the entire squad - not bad for 120pts

all in all, a very good army thats also fun to play

hasturspawn
29-05-2006, 20:25
The major difference in playing DE since the last edition, is the almost all raider army is far less viable then it was before. Since you can no longer hide a raider behind another one, they are a lot more vulnerable. The entangle part of a vehicule destroyed is also another major downside to a DE army. Now you have to even more play the hide and seek tactics and cannot concentrate all youre force in a single point as it was before.

just my two cents...

BTW, how can a ravager deepstrike?

damz451
29-05-2006, 20:42
by using screaming jets (something like that), you can deep strike ravagers and raiders that way

paddyalexander
29-05-2006, 21:12
There's no army I fear or respect more than a Dark Eldar army in the hands of a skilled player. My friend started 40k with Dark Eldar (I gave him the warriors that came with the 3rd Ed box set) and after loosing for about 3 months began a 6 month winning streak untill I was able to learn how to counter them. After that it was still only 50-50 win loose. The Dark Eldar are fragile but can out-shoot, out-manuver & out fight any other army in 40k when played right.

The GW guy proberbly never played using any army that wasn't T4 with power armor.

russian
29-05-2006, 21:40
dark eldar are one of the few armys that can assult you turn one almost regarless of where u set up,

right goes 12" disembarks up to 3" of the raider, then fleet of foots then assults, can cover more than 24 and if its wytches doing it and they got a 12" assult range then oh dear try top hide from them, first turn is crucial for DE as is maximising use of terrain, try to get close a s possible as quick as possible, i liek to think myself a competent DE player, but ive been on the end of a DE whooping myself with a few of my lists and gernally they massacre you, they are a win good or lose bad list, only a few times have i seem them draw, albiet if u are doing scenarios they are v good

AmKhaibitu
30-05-2006, 00:07
Try this combo which is a bit shaky but nasty.

Wych lord on skyboard with drugs... doesn't seem like much, except unlike hellions, this combo can FoF. 12" + d6" FoF + 12"... bring on the grey area of pain.

The book just has so many combos, I just wish I could take hellions as something other than fast attack and more plentiful.

NaT
30-05-2006, 03:31
I would love to start a dark eldar army, but honostly? They look horrendis unless painted very, very well.

They are just soo evil!

Black Templar
30-05-2006, 16:53
"they are the worst army that Games Workshop has ever made, and you will never be able to win with them"

This is completely wrong, the Dark Elder can beat almost any army so long as you use the right tactics and know your troops. There main weakness is in that you really need to know beforehand who you will be fighting, so that you can build the army list to counter it. But so long as you know this then they can be unbeatable.

fracas
30-05-2006, 16:59
the only thing wrong with DE are the plastic troop models

i think the solution for now would be to mix eldar and dark eldar models

McBain
30-05-2006, 18:35
having played DE since there realese i actually like there plastic models painted well and based correctyle they can look very very nice.

Now incubi they are some of the finest none character models in the game and can be easily converted into many different poses.

opps forgot a linky....

The Kabal of the tortured Heart(was to be 'Soul' but they have no word for soul)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v602/McBain/Dark%20Elder/

damz451
30-05-2006, 18:44
i usually use a darker base for my units, i cant really see the dark eldar attacking on a sunny day lol. ddnt know you collected dark eldar too macbain, thnx for the details on the relictor dread you sent me ages ago, built two of them and starting on a titan proxy as my 3rd

McBain
31-05-2006, 17:33
I have been with the Kabal since the dawn of the Dark Eldar.. im now thinking on heading back to them as a change from painting RElictors...

im planning on trying out the screaming jets on my hq raider loaded with archon, incubi master and 8 incubi. and seeing how they do as a deep strike unit....

Also my relictors dread is finished and pics to follow soon

warboss48
31-05-2006, 21:54
but the people in the gw store i go to have told me that, and i quote, "they are the worst army that Games Workshop has ever made, and you will never be able to win with them"

You should of slapped that guy with a wet fish. dark eldar are a powerful army and, while i have not fought them personally, i have seen a battle where a dark eldar army annihilated a necron army while losing only some of his warriors in return. unfortunately that dark eldar player then had some of his models stolen.

zealousheretic
31-05-2006, 22:33
They're hard to use, but they're unspeakably deadly if you know what you're doing with them. In the hands of a skilled player DE can score stunningly one-sided wins.

They really don't play anything like other armies, and they're not forgiving of mistakes. The learning curve can be significant. But again, they're very powerful in the right hands.

Go for it!

russian
31-05-2006, 23:37
the learning curve is liek being pushed of a cliff and told to fly to safty, if u can grasp the concept of flight ( or just have a parachute) you will be able decimate anything in your way

Black Templar
02-06-2006, 18:16
I have seen a battle where a dark eldar army annihilated a necron army while losing only some of his warriors in return.

The Dark Eldar do very well against most Necron army lists, it's because the Necrons just can't stand up to the huge number of attacks that usually get thrown at them once the DE warriors get into combat.

Noceo
03-06-2006, 04:00
I for one enjoy my Kabal alot. I do agree with the Dark Eldar being a very frail army though they do make up for with alot of speed and mobility.

Warlord Kyle
27-06-2006, 19:04
:wtf: those guys are really really wrong
they can kill nearly anything out where with the right commander

Venomizer
27-06-2006, 19:39
The Dark Eldar do very well against most Necron army lists, it's because the Necrons just can't stand up to the huge number of attacks that usually get thrown at them once the DE warriors get into combat.

thats all too true............especially in the case of Wyches, my Necrons hate them with an absolute passion

warboss48
29-06-2006, 16:32
The Dark Eldar do very well against most Necron army lists, it's because the Necrons just can't stand up to the huge number of attacks that usually get thrown at them once the DE warriors get into combat.

of course, the necron player is not a very good player, to put it nicely.

Ouroboros
29-06-2006, 20:18
so i have decided to start a dark eldar army. but the people in the gw store i go to have told me that, and i quote, "they are the worst army that Games Workshop has ever made, and you will never be able to win with them" well i consider myself a pretty good player and after reading the codex i think that they have a lot of potential, and i wanted some more views, so any input would be much apreciated


I hope this wasn't the staff saying this.

Whoever it was was was way off though.

DE are an army that will brutally punish a rash player who makes stupid mistakes. As such there's a few tards out there tend to think it's impossible to win with them because well, they're tards, and thus lack the imagination necessary to make the army work the way it's supposed to. They may also have attempted to play them at some point and given up after trying to play them like marines failed utterly.

If you can get good with them though they become downright nasty. One of the most deady "legitimate" armies in the game IMO. That is to say you don't have to resort to cheese, min maxing, or other cheap crap to make a really scary list with them. Even with a codex as dated as theirs is now they have little problem walking over any of the new armies if you know how to go about doing it.