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View Full Version : An interesting Article via WD Online



ashc
30-05-2006, 20:04
Just thought i would flag this up for people's attention and debate.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/tournaments/design-notes/1/

Jervis's reasons for whats going on with GW Grand Tournament recent rulings.

Interesting point on special characters, and then some kind of weird prophecy on some character's 'effectiveness' in 7th edition :confused:

anyway, post away as i want some opinions.

Ash

Zzarchov
30-05-2006, 21:04
The idea that lists being online is HARDER to read than forcing someone to buy 16 $20-$30 books is a lil odd :\

ashc
30-05-2006, 21:05
GW logic i suppose....

Ash

LionoftheBegs
31-05-2006, 06:48
Ah, GW. What won't you do to get money?

TeddyC
31-05-2006, 09:18
To me this reads:

GTs seem fairer.... points scoring wise.. the PD thing seems a good idea. SO does the thing about army lists and 'counts as'.

It also tells me they are pre empting 7th ed. THe counts as thing worries me as it COULD be read that they know some current units will no longer be in the game and already covering themselves.

Also on special characters, maybe in 7th ed the weaker ones do not require opponents permission, there arent any at the moment springing to mind that DONT require oppenents permission (alright yes 'everything' is opponents permission if we are being pedantic ;))
Also that they will be much more damaging if killed. Maybe worth more VPs? If I killed relative unknown Elf Lord X in battle it probably means much less (to the elves) than if I ripped open Tyrions chest and wore his ribcage as a hat. (Thats reading into the last comment and the new points scoring thing)

Zzarchov
31-05-2006, 10:28
I personally liked running into unknown lists, thats one of the balancing factors of an Asymetric game like WHFB or WH40k, there are SO MANY options (16 codexes for instance, plus hundreds of sublists) that you can't be prepared for ALL of them..narrow it too much and only 1 or 2 will be really viable..then it gets boring..

ashc
31-05-2006, 10:31
I would imagine sometimes it gets boring thanks to cookiecutter and optimised lists, so i would agree with Zzarchov.

Variety is the Spice of Life.

Ash

Avian
31-05-2006, 10:52
I don't really buy the
"Several players have written in to say they are worried that 'special characters' may unbalance the event. All I can really say in reply to this is that we've studied the special characters that can be taken very carefully, and do not consider any of them to be any more 'game-breaking' than numerous other units that have been cheerfully used in tournaments for years."

By that logic there is never any incentive to make things more balanced, as there are other equally unbalanced things out there already.

I have an urge to show up with Khazrak and his option for a draw anytime he wants to.

ashc
31-05-2006, 12:08
To be honest Avian I don't buy alot of what Jervis says any more, which is a shame; i always think it seems like they wheel old Jervis out when they want to address the veterans and expect them all to say 'oh thats alright then, because Jervis said so' :eyebrows:

Ash

Avian
31-05-2006, 12:19
Especially the far-fetched argument from the GW tournament organizers that "Jervis said we should not use alternative lists in tournies and therefore we have decided to disallow Storm of Chaos lists."

As if the idea originated with Jervis and they were just doing what he told them, instead of some bigwig coming up with the idea and then whipping both Jervis and the organisers to support this policy change.

I bet they keep him locked in the cupboard under the stair and only let him out if he writes what they tell him to. :eyebrows:

ashc
31-05-2006, 12:54
I bet they keep him locked in the cupboard under the stair and only let him out if he writes what they tell him to. :eyebrows:


The cupboard under the stairs obviously also being where they have stuck the Fanatic design studio too :eyebrows:

Ash

The Judge
31-05-2006, 14:51
It's a sad state of affairs when we begin doubting the words of Jervis.

Quin 242
31-05-2006, 15:04
OK so I can see not allowing lists that were in a WD of old or off some fanatic magazine etc.. but to not allow army lists that GW put in a Freaking CODEX? That I PURCHASED???

What the everliving hell?
What was the point of Buying said books?
I speak of, of course, Codex: Craftworld, Codex: Armegeddon, and Codex: Eye of Terror

ashc
31-05-2006, 15:12
Well, their argument is that EOT and Armageddon were 'campaign pack' books and now deem the lists in them 'unofficial'. Im still not entirely sure why they just went and nerfed Craftworld Eldar though, but apparently its to stop the possibility of codex crossover problems when they release the new one :eyebrows:

How plausible that lot is is up to the reader i guess.

Ash

Avian
31-05-2006, 15:35
It might be that the new Eldar Codex is released before the tournie season starts, in which case it would be outdated anyway.

Wonderdog
31-05-2006, 15:48
The info on the nerfing of characters (including special) in 7th ed fantasy tournaments is in response to the fact that you only need to wound them once (as opposed to >50% at present) to get half VP's from them under the forthcoming system.

#Wonderdog

ashc
31-05-2006, 18:47
The info on the nerfing of characters (including special) in 7th ed fantasy tournaments is in response to the fact that you only need to wound them once (as opposed to >50% at present) to get half VP's from them under the forthcoming system.

#Wonderdog

Is that for all characters or just specials?

Ash

Aaron
31-05-2006, 19:14
Is there a definitive document anywhere containing what counts as an army list currently in print? Is there even a list of which books/codexes are at danger of being dropped for those wanting to plan their army 6+ months in advance? This has opened a whole can of worms.

I can see the logic of Jervis' argument, but I'd rather see people taking leftfield armies that you may not have fought against before than to brand whole armies illegal. Then again, I was never much of a serious tournament player.

ExquisiteEvil
31-05-2006, 20:23
Is that for all characters or just specials?

Ash

the rumour says its all characters

Sureshot05
01-06-2006, 11:43
Another interesting side effect is that special characters which are generally very expensive to buy (-wise) will see an increase in purchasing and general use.

For example, not since the day of Boris Todbringer's release have I bought a special character to actually use in my Empire army (partially as I'm not too keen on special characters) but if they're allowed in tournament games then it becomes a distinct possibility that in order to field specific tactics with the new forth coming Empire list, I may need Karl Franz in order to field two rather than one unit of Rieksguard knights (or maybe Kurtz)

Please note that is not a rumour, just an idea based on a recent trend for special characters to allow special lists

ashc
01-06-2006, 11:48
Another interesting side effect is that special characters which are generally very expensive to buy (-wise) will see an increase in purchasing and general use.

For example, not since the day of Boris Todbringer's release have I bought a special character to actually use in my Empire army (partially as I'm not too keen on special characters) but if they're allowed in tournament games then it becomes a distinct possibility that in order to field specific tactics with the new forth coming Empire list, I may need Karl Franz in order to field two rather than one unit of Rieksguard knights (or maybe Kurtz)

Please note that is not a rumour, just an idea based on a recent trend for special characters to allow special lists

It also opens up possibilities of 'Lysander-Wing' armies for 40k etc.

Ash

NCO
02-06-2006, 00:53
seems to be a conveyorbelt kind of concept from GW here, that kind of force people to buy the latest codex (atleast competitive tournament players). Sometimes I really don't see any reason in GW doing some things like, oh, all the codexes for space marines.

Also 7th ed already? it felt like only a few years ago that GW release 6th ed.