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6th and Final Champion
11-06-2005, 03:06
I was just wondering if there was a Blood Dragon special character, if I missed something or whatnot. My friend says that there was one or is one or whatever. I really hope there is because every other bloodline has one, if there isnt they or someone should make one soon...

The one and only James
11-06-2005, 04:34
To my knowledge no, at leat not in 6th edition I think.

Eldacar
11-06-2005, 07:08
There is no legal Blood Dragon special character for 6th edition.

MVA
11-06-2005, 09:50
Walach. But that was 5th Edition.

They never brought a mini out either, so it's no great loss that they didn't bring him back in this edition.

macbeth
11-06-2005, 09:55
Walach was Aborash's second in command. He lost his wife and son under ban attack of empire knights...
In the 5th edition, he could be both the general and the army standard bearer of your army.

He had a cool background, but indeed, was never sculpted...

schuba
11-06-2005, 12:25
it hink that also Red Duke very fits to Blood Dargon theme , but he was in 4 ed. :)
there was even campagin with him if i remember ....

Rathgar
11-06-2005, 12:34
it hink that also Red Duke very fits to Blood Dargon theme , but he was in 4 ed. :)
there was even campagin with him if i remember ....

Aye, there was Circle Of Blood. Undead (back when there was no VC/TK) vs Brets.

He does fit the blood dragon profile "a noble night of Bretonnia, struck down with the curse of vampirism whilst of crusadingÖ" IIRC there's a Warmaster campaign inspired by it on the SG web site...

Griefbringer
11-06-2005, 12:43
Actually Circle of Blood was early 5th edition (before the first VC book came out).

Rathgar
11-06-2005, 12:49
Actually Circle of Blood was early 5th edition (before the first VC book came out).

Oh, thatís right! They had a few campaign packs with a booklet and a few card buildings in, there was Circle of Blood, Tears of Isha, Idol of GorkÖ

Sorry to wander off topic!

6th and Final Champion
11-06-2005, 13:38
So no BD special character huh? Thats a shame. I dont see why they just wouldnt make one it doesnt make much sense. Why give every other bloodline one?...

MVA
12-06-2005, 03:21
Oh, that’s right! They had a few campaign packs with a booklet and a few card buildings in, there was Circle of Blood, Tears of Isha, Idol of Gork…

Sorry to wander off topic!

Don't forget the Grudge of Drong!

Well, in 5th Ed you had special characters coming out of every which way. The VC's had Walach, Nefereta, Dieter Helsnicht, Heinrich Kemmler, Krell, Melkhior and Vlad, Isabella and Mannfred Von Carstein... all in the one book.

So all the bloodlines got covered (Strigoi not being around until the 6th ed revamp, pardon the choice of words). But only Mannfred, Melkhior and Nefereta got mini's for the 5th ed VC book. (Dieter, Heinrich, Krell and Vlad and Isabella already having existing mini's from 4th/earlier 5th ed).

So you could say the blood dragons got screwed a little there, but hey, they can just go cry with the Strigoi.

macbeth
12-06-2005, 13:03
Don't forget the Grudge of Drong!

So all the bloodlines got covered (Strigoi not being around until the 6th ed revamp, pardon the choice of words). But only Mannfred, Melkhior and Nefereta got mini's for the 5th ed VC book(.

Walach also got a mini, he was mounted on a winged nightmare...

Rathgar
12-06-2005, 15:12
Walach also got a mini, he was mounted on a winged nightmare...

He did? The only model I can think of that'd fit the profile is this (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110207095&orignav=13). And I always figured that he's just your generic Blood Dragon Lord.

MVA
13-06-2005, 02:20
Uhm...no...I believe you're slightly mistaken...

The winged nightmare mini came with Melkhior (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=COMP0207002&orignav=301116) .

The blood dragon mounted Winged Nightmare came out with the 6th ed book. And the winged nightmare looks drastically different to the 5th ed one.

Plus the BD one coming out in 6th edition, theres no way that it is Walach, who was mounted on a standard nightmare to begin with anyways. If my memory serves correct.

Griefbringer
13-06-2005, 10:44
So no BD special character huh? Thats a shame.

IMHO a lot of special characters don't really make much sense anyway...

macbeth
13-06-2005, 10:48
He did? The only model I can think of that'd fit the profile is this (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110207095&orignav=13). And I always figured that he's just your generic Blood Dragon Lord.


I'm sorry!!! I mistook Melchior for Walach... My mistake :cries: !

Frenk
13-06-2005, 14:20
eeuh and what about strigoi??

Scythe
13-06-2005, 16:49
Strigoi got no special character either (at all acctually, not in this edition or previous ones, where they didn't excisted; Blood Dragons at least got Walach in 5th). Lahmians also have no official special character. There are rules (gw site) and a model for Neferata around, but nothing official.

6th and Final Champion
13-06-2005, 17:17
Was Walach good? I mean he WAS a blood dragon so had to have been good in combat. And also do you think Abhorash is too powerful to be a character?

Scythe
13-06-2005, 17:54
He was pretty decent, yes, tough he suffered a bit from not having a ward save. His sword was quite cool tough, able to instant kill any creature on an additional roll of 6 for each wound caused (remember there was no killing blow in 5th edition). I converted his rules to 6th edition once, were he came out extremely powerfull.

We had a long tread about Abhorash on old portent. Most people agreed that Abhorash would be to powerfull to be well represented in the current warhammer setting.

6th and Final Champion
13-06-2005, 18:58
Thats a shame he has REALLY cool fluff.

Rathgar
14-06-2005, 00:58
Thatís true but the fluff also has him as a non-active Vampire. He just sits on a mountain all day.

If rules were published for Abhorash, it'd be pre-dragon's blood drinking. But then, he wouldn't be leading an undead army he'd be leading the troops of Lahmia of old...

macbeth
14-06-2005, 07:32
Anyway, master vampires are not really adapted for 2k or 3k battles... I think that's why Neferata and Vlad Von Cartein did not appear in teh last book, but only on GW's website, as opponent-agreement characters...

Griefbringer
14-06-2005, 10:10
Thatís true but the fluff also has him as a non-active Vampire. He just sits on a mountain all day.


That would make for a sort of restricted character to play - plus the need to deploy a mountain on your deployment zone to even be able to use him... :rolleyes:

Scythe
14-06-2005, 11:18
Anyway, master vampire are not really adapted for 2k or 3k battles... I think that's why Neferata and Vlad Von Cartein did not appear in teh last book, but only on GW's website, as opponent-agreement characters...

It is not certain Vlad von Carstein was the acctual master vampire. It's just the first Carstein vampire to reappear on the world.

macbeth
14-06-2005, 12:41
Yes, we're not certain. But he was the mightiest Von Carstein (both from the fluff and rule points of views), and had all the bloodline powers, just like Neferata, but unlike all the other vampires...

Plus, there is no known Von Carstein before him, and he created a whole lot of Carsteins after his coming to power. As the migtier the vampire, the more offspring he can create, it seems reasonable to think he was the master vampire of the Von Carstein...

Rathgar
14-06-2005, 12:50
I'm with Macbeth on this one, I think Mr. Vlad VC was one of the original master vampires. Granted, thatís probably not his real name (I can't imagine him calling himself that in Lahmia). Maybe he adopted the name, when he decided to take Sylvania as his own? Remember that the last no-undead rulers of the place we're called Von Drak...

Scythe
14-06-2005, 16:45
True, it's probably your best bet he was the acctual master vampire. Tough he might have killed the original master vampire and got his powers (remember Zacharias also has all bloodline powers, and he isn't even a second generation vampire). On simular topic; do you think Luthor Harkon came from the same bloodline as Vlad?

6th and Final Champion
14-06-2005, 17:05
Well wasnt Walach's last name Harkon? I figured they might be in the same bloodline. Though I think Luthor has Von Carstein bloodline powers.

macbeth
14-06-2005, 19:56
There are several Harkons, I seem to remember.

There is first the vampire of the vampire coast. this one has many characteristics of the VC, so he may be one...

But there is also the Red Duke, from the Circle of Blood campaign, and I think that this one was later said to be a Blood dragon...

Rathgar
15-06-2005, 01:26
On simular topic; do you think Luthor Harkon came from the same bloodline as Vlad?

Yes, most defiantly. We know he got himself in a position were his sarcophagus was being carried by and Empire ship. Only two bloodlines I can think of that'd manage that are Lahmia And Von Carstien. Which one fits Harkon better?

gortexgunnerson
15-06-2005, 01:37
Thier isn't a legal on for other bloodlines except Voncasteins and Necrarchs! I haven't seen a Strigori or lamiam vampire character in the legal bit! But i may be wrong!

Also Blood Dragons are such a cheese players list they dont need characters lol!!!!

6th and Final Champion
15-06-2005, 03:07
....What are you talking about? The list is completely the same they just have good combat characters...Unless you're talking about the appendix list which, unfortunately, isnt legal.

Griefbringer
15-06-2005, 09:11
Well wasnt Walach's last name Harkon? I figured they might be in the same bloodline.

Just because you have the same surname, does not mean that they are of the same (vampiric) bloodline.

Perhaps they were (very) distant relatives in their mortal life, got "infected" by vampires of different bloodlines, but decided to keep up their mortal surnames in their unlife.

Scythe
16-06-2005, 08:48
Yes, most defiantly. We know he got himself in a position were his sarcophagus was being carried by and Empire ship. Only two bloodlines I can think of that'd manage that are Lahmia And Von Carstien. Which one fits Harkon better?

Well, there's the last name thing several other pointed out. And there are of course the missing 2 bloodlines. Tough Von Carstein seems the most logical option.

macbeth
16-06-2005, 09:55
He could be a strigoi too.

They are supposed to be carried in their coffins by the strigani caravanes... Maybe one ended on a ship...

I must concede, however, that he does not fit the description of a strigoi at all...

Scythe
16-06-2005, 10:47
Well, the strigoi were quite different before they lost their land. Maybe not all stigoi degenerated into beasts. But then, I'm not sure if the timeframe would be correct.

6th and Final Champion
16-06-2005, 12:37
Well isnt he for the lustria campaign anyway? Im sure its possible that its before they changed. And even then. Maybe only the ones around for the taking of their land changed. him being in lustria Im sure he didnt know...

Eldacar
16-06-2005, 14:04
I haven't seen a Strigori or lamiam vampire character in the legal bit! But i may be wrong!
You are wrong. Check the Games Workshop website. The special characters on there are now legal, meaning you don't need your opponent's permission to use them.


Which one fits Harkon better?
Well, while there are some male Lahmian vampires, I'd have to agree and say that Harkon is/was from the Von Carstein Bloodline.

6th and Final Champion
17-06-2005, 00:26
I hate the Von Carsties they're SO bland and stereotypical. "bleh I've come to suck your blood bleh"...utter crap.

macbeth
17-06-2005, 08:10
I hate the Von Carsties they're SO bland and stereotypical. "bleh I've come to suck your blood bleh"...utter crap.

Well, they are supposed to the the archetypal vampires. They are Bram Stoker's Dracula! That's why I love them...

The less vampirish of all, to my eyes, are the strigoi. THey look more like feral monsters rather than sophisticated blood suckers. Even the Necrarchs have retained a bit of their old magnificence...

Scythe
17-06-2005, 09:04
Well, the Necrachs seem to be influenced by the old Nosferatu type vampires (bald, ugly etc), which makes them quite interesting. Strigoi seem to be the more bestial side of vampires, which is not really the classical view on vampires. They could go along as werewolves (who I miss in fantasy; would give a nice twist to an undead army).

Tastyfish
17-06-2005, 13:45
The Were are chaos, just slightly different from classical fantasy as they are people who turn into animals...just not back again.
Except for the slightly bizarre folklore (witchs can turn into wolves and if you get bitten by them, then you become a werewolf and if not burnt you become a vampire when you die.) I'm not really sure why vampires and werewolves should go together, especially if you arn't using them as part of the life cycle

6th and Final Champion
17-06-2005, 13:48
If I was gonig to play Strigoi I'd definately make my lord a werewolf. I'd probably use one of the confrontation minis. Even though they're huge.

macbeth
17-06-2005, 14:44
I'm not really sure why vampires and werewolves should go together, especially if you arn't using them as part of the life cycle

Well, in Van Helsing, a werewolf is the only thing which can kill Dracula, so he keeps them with him in order to watch them...

Tastyfish
17-06-2005, 14:50
Yes, I am aware that vampires and werewolves do often go together, but there is never really a reason for it other than a vague recolection of myth that they have something to do with each other.
Its just odd that they are almost always kept together despite not having any real connection at all

Scythe
17-06-2005, 17:39
I'm not saying keep them together per se, werewolves could be nice characters in an undead army without vampires for example. Still, the point of those creatures fighting together could be made for a lot of other creatures as well. Why are vampires and necromancers together for example. Or ghouls. The vampire counts army is in essence a collection of all different kinds of horror creatures, and a werewolf doesn't look that out of place next to skeletons, vampires, zombies, gigantic bats, ghosts etc does it?

Rathgar
17-06-2005, 21:40
A note on background: there are two types of Werewolves in WF Chaos tainted individuals who can change shape (The Weres of the North), and the Fabled Children of Ulric.

In WF Were-creatures are not Undead. Sorry Scythe. :(

Scythe
18-06-2005, 10:01
That's a shame... still I wish there were some scarier wolves available for VC over dire wolves.