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Snorphel
11-06-2005, 06:40
It's a long shot, but eventually the Space Wolves will also get an updated codex.
Here some suggestions; I forgot where I saw it... Or is it just nonsense?

EXTRA FLUFFFF! Lot's of it - we all want it!
What happened with the 13th great company after EoT.

HQ leaders; Give them abilities like Space Marine leaders
Wolf Lords - get Logan Grimnar's ability (toned down?)
Rune Priests - get choice out of 3 psychic powers
Wolf Priests - become the best SW h-t-h characters (eg - WS 6)
Updated rules for the Fenrisian Wolves

Elites;
Reduced cost of Wolf Guard (terminators); allow some veteran skills
Update the Iron Priest thralls
Scouts: Remove the option to take weapons from codex Space Marines. Lictor infiltration rules?

Troops;
Blood Claws get ferocious charge and fleet instead of extra attacks - small point increase
One Grey Hunter squad can take infiltration

Fast attack;
Update Blood Claw bikes/jumpers
? Wulfen squads

Heavy support;
Allow Long Fangs to take bolters or special weapons, including sniper rifles
Remove the Leman Russ exterminator
0-1 Crusader

New equipment:
Heavy slug Str4 (assault 2) shotgun
Great weapon

Isuran Greifenherz
11-06-2005, 10:24
Wow you have a list of things you want to have improved.

Dante
11-06-2005, 14:09
Hmm, I donīt agree really....


HQ leaders; Give them abilities like Space Marine leaders
Wolf Lords - get Logan Grimnar's ability (toned down?)
Rune Priests - get choice out of 3 psychic powers
Wolf Priests - become the best SW h-t-h characters (eg - WS 6)
Updated rules for the Fenrisian Wolves


That ability is for Logan, why should all Wolf Lord have it..? Give him WS6 if anything and perhaps a Morale-boost ability similar to Masters and Capatains of the vanillia list.
Why only 3 powers for the Rune Priest? Give him as many as the īnillas to shoce from...
The Wolf Priest should definetly not be a better fighter than the Wolf Lord. Re-read your fluff if you donīt know why.
And whatīs wrong with Fenrisian Wolves..? Do you want stuff changed because of the changing..?


Reduced cost of Wolf Guard (terminators); allow some veteran skills
Update the Iron Priest thralls
Scouts: Remove the option to take weapons from codex Space Marines. Lictor infiltration rules?

Agreed on making the Wolf Guard Terminatorts cheaper, theyīre seriously overcosted now.
Why change the Scouts..? Theyīre attacking from the rear, not from the battlefield, leave that ability alone, for the lictors. Wolf Scouts are thee to give the impression of Space Wolves fighting like real Wolves, some of them coming from behind etc. Read more about Wolves (the animal).


Troops;
Blood Claws get ferocious charge and fleet instead of extra attacks - small point increase
One Grey Hunter squad can take infiltration


No and no! Blood Claws are almost okay now, but should definetly NOT get Furious Charge!! Maybe, just maybe WS4 (and perhaps BS2) but I kinda like them as they are, a little tricky to use but thatīs good. ;)
At first, Infiltration for Grey Hunters seemed like a big no-no fpr me, but I have to think more about that... Donīt really feel right though...


Fast attack;
Update Blood Claw bikes/jumpers
? Wulfen squads

No Wulfen! Thatīs for the 13th Co. (and that single Wolf Guard)
But please, cheaper Blood Claws with Jump Packs!! īnillas pay 5p less for an Assault Marine with Furious Charge, just not right...
But maybe make them 0-1? That and 25-26p and 5-10 in each Pack..?


Heavy support;
Allow Long Fangs to take bolters or special weapons, including sniper rifles
Remove the Leman Russ exterminator
0-1 Crusader

Long Fangs shouldnīt have sniper rifles, why should they??? Leave that to that single Wolf Scout Pack (why take it from them by the way? Fits them, not the Fangs!). They should (and have always had) heavy weapons, thatīs what they do and it fits their fluff.
I definetly agree on removing that silly Imperial Guard tank though! Cheers!! :cool:
0-1 Crusadr, yeah, why not..? I guess one should be enough and we have other goodies... ;)


New equipment:
Heavy slug Str4 (assault 2) shotgun
Great weapon

This I like, really..! :D

Insane Psychopath
11-06-2005, 14:42
I don't see Dreadnought there or Pred or anythang part for Russ.

Wulfen squads

Well I think since both Space Wolve & 13th Co are going to be put together this squad would be 13co only... but as Fast Attack?????

Right this is the werid thing.... right back that Scottsh Conflict in March. I saw Greame McNeil & ask him about the Black Templar... he said him or any other HQ staffer where not allowed to talk about it since the codex was not in the 6month wondow for release. They might talk about it now due to it near the coming out date. Also I dout any one for any other GW would have any knlowge of the rule since secutiy that GW HQ is high with new codexies.

This might be true but how do we know since it only a roumer (sp) like:

Allow Long Fangs to take bolters or special weapons, including sniper rifles

Now don't get me wrong... but even there scout don't get sniper rifles so why would the old vet get them?????

They only thing is to wait until it come out. As for now any romouer you hear you should not really get you hope up unless it come for the people who made the codex. But I dout they will say much until 6 month before it out.

But like of the Wulfen if that is for normal SW... then is that not what there scout are ment to be any way????? Also the shot gun you said there I high dount that like I dout the Sniper Rifle.

There not even word when the Codex Space Wolve are coming out as well. Right now it: Templars (since Nids are out now), in Feb be Eldar or Orks, then somthing else + Tau, them Ork or Eldar, then somthing else.... so forth. I say it more Blood Angle that'll be relase after Ork or Eldar due to they been out for a long time. But I do not know this until the6 month before it out day.

Sorry if I seem harsh but before the Marine codex came out I hear so much stuff that was cool... only to find it not true.

x-esiv-4c
11-06-2005, 14:44
Thats quite a list. I would like to see some new units, not just a revamp but some new material too. Perhaps some fluff on the Wulfen.

Snorphel
11-06-2005, 15:37
Ok, they were right to move this out of the Rumour section;

Don't take it too hard please; it's just a few ideas, and you see immediately that some get mauled down, while others start to evolve.
The good part of these discussions is obviously that GW designers read them too - and this way we keep the hobby kind of interactive and alive.

I like the shotgun though; nice, rough and crudely efficient - the way the Wolves should be.

Wolflord Havoc
11-06-2005, 16:10
Blood Claws - I would leave them as they are - the stats and rules perfectly represent the Darwinian nature of the Space Wolf Training.

Great weapons - I take it these could be taken by blood claws for +1 point - nice idea.

Wolf packs - a bit warhammerish but yeah why not.

Grey Hunters - should be able to infiltrate / or have the scout ability - I agree with that.

Long fangs - The most experianced troops in the Chapter - should be able to be equipped with special weapons in exactly the same way as Chaos SM Havoc Squads - I mean what do these guys do during a boarding action or tunnel fighting "its alright lads -we'll stay on the battlebarge and watch".

And leadership skills - Every Chapter got Rites of war and Lianies of hate - except for space wolves - why - are advanced communications too difficult for the space wolves to produce and use.....hmmmm.....battlebarge(s).....Land raiders.....Thunderhawks.....but not advanced comm gear.

t-tauri
11-06-2005, 16:23
I want is to keep the 13th and the main list separate.

For the main list I want something decent and unique for the SW characters like the new SM codex characters, but not the same abilities. The Iron Priest to have the same options as the new techmarine.

Wolf Guard terminators are overpriced.

Blood Claws to be cheaper and able to be fielded on bike and with jump packs in decent sized squads at a reasonable points cost. I'd keep the current rules for them. Maybe up the Weapon Skill as these guys are meant to be dangerous warriors before they get inducted into the chapter.

Long Fangs-the 13th company Long Fangs have the special weapon option already so giving it to the main chapter might be removing one of the characteristics of the 13th list. What I want is for the split fire ability to be a property of the squad rather than the sergeant as he's normally the first to bite the bullet.

Keep the Wolf Scouts the way they are. A unique unit so why change it?

I'd like to keep the exterminator as an option, but since the IG have lost the tank from their codex I can't see the Wolves keeping it in theirs.

There isn't actually much needed to sort and update the Wolf codex. It's just a shame that rumour has it relegated to towards the end of the codex release schedule. :(

Jonathan =I=
11-06-2005, 16:29
New equipment:
Heavy slug Str4 (assault 2) shotgun
Great weapon

That is never going to happen.

chaospig
11-06-2005, 17:14
I think that the changes sounded good cept the sniper rule

i think people shouldn't be allowed to put power weapons in their squads as no other army can do that.(don't think)

either that or it is illegal and the person i play against is lying :p

Wolflord Havoc
11-06-2005, 18:03
As for Rites of Battle I would like to see a 'pack leader' rule instead.

Any given Squad can use the Ld Characteristics of any leader they can draw LOS too.

And I suppose Space Wolves don't really need Litanies of hate - they are already quite nasty in HtH - but it would be nice to see on Wolf Preist's.

Yeah I don't see that S4 shotgun happening either - its too much like a rippergun.

t-tauri wrote

Blood Claws to be cheaper and able to be fielded on bike and with jump packs in decent sized squads at a reasonable points cost. I'd keep the current rules for them. Maybe up the Weapon Skill as these guys are meant to be dangerous warriors before they get inducted into the chapter.

Well they already have the ability to take 9 man bike or Jumppack squads (including the WG leader) - but I agree that the jump packers are perhaps a tad overpriced - although the bikers are cheaper (and you can have more of them) than other marine chapters. Although they are no longer that much cheaper!!!

Dante
11-06-2005, 20:54
I think that the changes sounded good cept the sniper rule

i think people shouldn't be allowed to put power weapons in their squads as no other army can do that.(don't think)

either that or it is illegal and the person i play against is lying :p

I just love it when people with no clue are responding to threads like this... :rolleyes: Really, whatīs the point, please, stop ruining perfectly good threads...
You donīt want me to pop in, in a thread about your No.1 army, saying stupid things like "-I donīt think Chaos should have Daemons, I mean, no other have them, why should Chaos..?!"

Thanks.


Long fangs - The most experianced troops in the Chapter - should be able to be equipped with special weapons in exactly the same way as Chaos SM Havoc Squads - I mean what do these guys do during a boarding action or tunnel fighting "its alright lads -we'll stay on the battlebarge and watch".

I think itīs okay as is, except maybe that the Fire Control should be a Pack ability like t-tauri said. I mean, Blood Claws and Grey Hunters can take so many specialiazed weapons that they hardly need Long Fangs in such fightings, in open battlefields the Long Fangs are (almost) doing their job.


Grey Hunters - should be able to infiltrate / or have the scout ability - I agree with that.

The more I think about this, the better it sounds. Feels like it fits them... Iīm personally leaning towards giving Grey Hunters Scout, but Iīm not sure itīs a good idea..?

Agamemnon2
11-06-2005, 22:04
I mean what do these guys do during a boarding action or tunnel fighting "its alright lads -we'll stay on the battlebarge and watch".

Happily, since the 40k rules support neither of these things all that well, the dilemma will never arise during a game.

Witch Hunter
12-06-2005, 05:35
I think if you give the Grey Hunters Infiltrate it must be limited to a 0-1 choice at best, but I really think that this role belongs to the scouts.

I'm leaning toward giving Grey Hunters the Scout rule, though. It fits the fluff(wolves slinking in under cover while part of the pack circles around behind to attack), and I'm sure isn't unbalancing to game play with an appropriate points adjustment.


I agree that the 13th Company and 'regular' wolves should stay seperate lists, while I don't have a problem with them be presented together in the same Codex.

Dante
12-06-2005, 09:39
Yeah, I kinda like the thought of that Scout rule... As you said, fits the fluff, the "Wolf Pack" is sneaking up on the unsuspecting "prey" while some other Wolves are attacking from the rear (Wolf Scouts).

And yes, with a points adjustment it seems like a good rule for Grey Hunters. It gets them where theyīre useful, close to the enemy to use all their short-ranged weapons.

By the way:


I want is to keep the 13th and the main list separate.

Definetly! But having both lists in the saem Codex sounds like a good idea. :)

Olith
12-06-2005, 13:47
Things only need bringing inline with the Marine codex and the FAQs. No drastic changes are needed. The codex is one of the best written.

Witch Hunter
12-06-2005, 16:54
Things only need bringing inline with the Marine codex and the FAQs. No drastic changes are needed. The codex is one of the best written.


I agree that the SW 'dex is one of the best written of all the 3Ed books(if not the best), but I don't see why a few tweaks and minor adjustments to a few units can't be made to make it even better.

Xavier
12-06-2005, 20:18
I just love it when people with no clue are responding to threads like this... :rolleyes: Really, whatīs the point, please, stop ruining perfectly good threads...
You donīt want me to pop in, in a thread about your No.1 army, saying stupid things like "-I donīt think Chaos should have Daemons, I mean, no other have them, why should Chaos..?!"

Thanks.

Agreed, funny example :p

13th company and space wolves should stay as seperate lists in my opinion, your not really going to split up the 13th company that was around when russ was to add to another company. If anything they will get their seat in the hall of wolves back and their wolf lord back on the stone circle (name escapes me) but during the eye of terror it was said that the 13th company that had appeared were a fraction of the whole legion...

Someone said long fangs should have fire control as a generic trait, I disagree its the pack leader who is telling them where to shoot and is devoting time to this (hence not shooting or assaulting) so why should the pack have it? if you want to use it so bad dont remove the pack leader first.

To the first post.. Its a nice idea, and with some good ideas, but...

Wolf Lords - get Logan Grimnar's ability (toned down?)
Updated rules for the Fenrisian Wolves


why would wolf lords get the ability of the imperiums greatest leader?

Wolf Priests - become the best SW h-t-h characters (eg - WS 6)
why would a spiritual leader, who looks for new recruits.. be the best fighter in the company, if that was the case why haven't they challenged the wolf lords for leadership and they themselves not become wolf lord. No, wolf lords are the best fighters in the chapter, end of discussion.

Updated rules for the Fenrisian Wolves
I think their good enough as they are and are very characterful.

Reduced cost of Wolf Guard (terminators); allow some veteran skills
Update the Iron Priest thralls.
Agreed.

Scouts: Remove the option to take weapons from codex Space Marines. Lictor infiltration rules?
They're fine as they are, they attack from behind the enemy after having got into a position at their rear (think wolf pack) why would they attack from in the midst of the army?


Blood Claws get ferocious charge and fleet instead of extra attacks - small point increase
One Grey Hunter squad can take infiltration

Blood claws are good as they are. While grey hunters infiltrating does sound good in principle I just dont feel right with it. Where as giving them scout makes them to much like the current 13th company


Wulfen squads
No.


Allow Long Fangs to take bolters or special weapons, including sniper rifles
Remove the Leman Russ exterminator
[quote]Why let long fangs have bolters? They are the long range support, bolters? pfft.. sniper rifles are more stealthy and used by scouts to silently kill.
Yes, loose the exterminator guard have lost it so should space wolves, I get the connection to russ himself and his finding of the stc, but why an exterinator, if anything give them a proper russ (Im not actually suggesting this, space marines with leman russ tanks, no thank you.) [/color]
[quote]Heavy slug Str4 (assault 2) shotgun
Great weapon
Why? what? when?
Why would they use shotguns.. why would they be better than other marine chapters shotgun ammunition..?
Great weapon, why? Very heavy weapon.. or a chain saw type weapon... I know what i'd pick

THORHALD
18-06-2006, 21:01
Very interesting points so far.
Here are a few more ideas:
Give Grey Hunters the options of having Infiltrate or Furious Charge and give Long Fangs the option for having Tank Hunters.
Also to be able to shoot OR assault out of Drop Pods or pay points to have both options.

THORHALD

Xhalax
18-06-2006, 22:11
But please, cheaper Blood Claws with Jump Packs!!

But I think that's more infitting with their fluff. The Space Wolves don't like technology of that kind.....so not taking them gives a more fluffy army, in my view.

Kahadras
19-06-2006, 00:09
Hmmm. Having played SW for a while now there are several changes that I would like to see.

With Blood claw I think that they should keep their rules but maybe give them something like 'young and eager' basicaly meaning they tend to surge forward at the start of the battle (giving them a free move before the game starts). I would also say that they should drop the option to give them jump packs (Space Wolves just don't believe in those kind of things)

Grey Hunters should be able to get access to infiltrate as I think it would work very well with their background (like a wolf stalking its prey) and would give a more dynamic feel to the army when combined with the Blood claws 'young and eager' rule.

Long fangs need to come down in price and lose that silly spilt fire idea. One possibility I was thinking of was giving them runic armour (2+ save) to make up for the fact that they come in so few numbers (with the points ajusted of course). Again something a bit new and different to set SW aside from other Marines.

Give the option for Grey hunters to have bikes (not with infiltrate though as that is broken). Wolf Guard also should remain pretty much the same just with a few tweaks. The HQ units definatly need to be improved to keep in line with the SM codex (it would be nice to have different abilities though). Wolf scouts can stay the same as well.

Lastly get rid of the Exterminator. It just seems so out of place in the codex as it is.

Kahadras

Wolf Scout Ewan
19-06-2006, 00:30
Kahadras

I agree! Makes sense to this old wolf!

I would also like to see Wolf Scouts as troops but without the behind enemy lines bit. Elites Wolf scouts should all be able to behind the enemy lines.

Varath- Lord Impaler
19-06-2006, 07:50
i really dont like these ideas.

So what is wrong with Space Wolves now? What is their weakness. you dont seem to have anything saying that points will be lifted, only a few thta will drop

NaT
19-06-2006, 08:09
The current dex is good, but they need some things moved up into line with the power of the current SM dex. Mainly physic powers.

Wolf guard termies are a bit expensive, but they have alot more options than normal termies.

Long fangs need a revision. They are very fluffy, but not all that good. Maybe they should be able to move AND shoot or maybe take a pack of wolves to absorb wounds. Just some random ideas.

Kahadras
19-06-2006, 11:32
So what is wrong with Space Wolves now?

Well they are badly in need of an update at the present moment. You only have to look at some of the units to work that out. With the loss of Rhino rush (not a bad thing in itself) Blood Claw became a lot more redundant (unless you take Land Raiders).

Characters are much weaker than their marine compatriots but actualy cost more points.

Long Fangs are seen as pointless due to their high cost and low number of figures. They may as well stand there with a 'shoot me' sign over their heads.

Blood Claw jump pack troops are insane; being far more expecive than normal assault marines that have taken furious charge.


What is their weakness.

I assume that you havn't played SW then? Otherwise you could easily see the few problems that 4th ed has created for the list.


you dont seem to have anything saying that points will be lifted, only a few thta will drop

Why lift the points of something that is already to expencive? Quite a lot of the SW stuff is over costed as it is when compared to the Space marine codex.

Kahadras