PDA

View Full Version : Who loves Iron Warriors



S'tan
10-06-2006, 21:58
so, i'm opening this mostly to provoke people (as some of you seem to be very eager to....exterminate?....iron warriors) and to prove that not all IW armies are cheesy.

i have a daemon prince (will soon be replaced by a warsmith, just need to convert something cool), 4 obliterators (i think that is not too much), 2 squads of marines with lascannons, one squad with 2 meltas & aspiring champion with a combi-melta mounted in rhino, a defiler, a basilisk and a vindicator. 1500 pts. the list is the same for some quite time, is imho fluffy (i just need to replace my daemon prince) and is not too strong. you may think that 3 pies do a lot against infantry based army lists, but i have been pwnd by those using a lot of transports/deep strike/terminators/land raiders/and many many others.

as i see it, IW are an army like any other and all this anti-IW stuff is making me sick. can someone please tell me why are iron warriors soooooooo bad, because in my xp, night lords can be a lot bigger pain in the anal hole.


iron within, iron without :D

Antaeus
10-06-2006, 22:03
I've had IW since the Index Astartes article. Don't remember ever using all 4 Heavy Support, and the most Oblits I've ever fielded is four (as many as I own). We rock. We're just sadly open to a very obvious form of list abuse *sigh*.

Still, there are good IW players out there. Just wish we weren't tarred with the same brush as people who use the list to field Ordnance and Obliterators and probably can't even name our homeworld :(

S'tan
10-06-2006, 22:09
amen


in case you haven't seen it before: http://s4.invisionfree.com/ironwarriors

Damien 1427
10-06-2006, 22:12
Yo.

Been into the Iron Warriors since second edition, when they were just The Guys Who Had Loads of Bionics and Liked Dreads. I still prefer that, but I'm starting to warm towards the siege artillery that many seems to sum up the state of the legion now.

My attitude is thus...


No more than a single Obliterator per thousand points.
No more than one Ordanance weapon per fifteen-hundred points.
Every character that can take Wargear must have Bionics.
Focus on numbers. A Bolter Gunline can put out more shots than a five-man squad with a las/plas combo.
Don't bother with Heavy weapons in Traitor Legionnaire squads. Just take two Plasma Guns in Bolter squads, or two Melta Guns in Close-Combat squads.
Don't bother with Defilers. Take Dreadnoughts instead. They look better, and are a lot more fun to use.


Characters are a mixed bag. Probably a Lieutenant in power armour up to a thousand, a Lieutenant in terminator armour up to fifteen-hundred, a Lord in power armour from a thousand upwards, a Lord in terminator armour from two-thousand upwards, and a Daemon Prince from three-thousand and beyond.

Antaeus
10-06-2006, 22:20
Sounds like a good way to play to me, love :) I think I've used both my Vindi and Basilisk in the same game once, but that was because a Marine-playing friend and me decided to field all our Ordnance in one battle. We also made a rule that you couldn't target enemy Ordnance units.

Best game I've ever had. We elevated friendly fire to an art form :D Generally, though, it's one or t'other at 1500 (usually the Bassy, I'm quite fond of the conversion - it has a turret!).

Cromenon
10-06-2006, 22:21
My attitude is thus...

No more than a single Obliterator per thousand points.
No more than one Ordanance weapon per fifteen-hundred points.
Every character that can take Wargear must have Bionics.
Focus on numbers. A Bolter Gunline can put out more shots than a five-man squad with a las/plas combo.
Don't bother with Heavy weapons in Traitor Legionnaire squads. Just take two Plasma Guns in Bolter squads, or two Melta Guns in Close-Combat squads.
Don't bother with Defilers. Take Dreadnoughts instead. They look better, and are a lot more fun to use.


i completely share your opinnion, an iw army could be fun to play with, but there are (always) people who try to maximize the advantages of their armies, not considering the background of their armies...

and.. what about vindicators and basilisks???i've never seen those tanks in an IW army...and they are original

Latro_
11-06-2006, 02:38
In response to the thread title and a former IW player

Not Me!!!

:)

adreal
11-06-2006, 03:45
there was a cheesy IW player in our town who stopped when oblits became T4(5), so yeah thats all the IW experience ive had

neXus6
11-06-2006, 04:31
I love Iron Warriors, love their background, and loved their brilliantly characterful Index Astartes rules, 0 - 1 Berzerkers that was just the most characterful thing ever.

That said despite how many times I've planned and IW Army I've never got round to doing them. :p
Still their not exactly hard to paint which is a good thing for a lazy **** like me so I may yet be stomping along with an IW army at some point.

I agree totaly with the marine heavy tactic, a friend of mine 1000pts is something like 40 odd marines with various special weapons and a few with infiltrate to spice it up a bit. :)
I'd never use the 4 Heavy choice, I'd try to stich a bit of fast attack in, and Obliterators are so expensive money wise at worst I might have 1 or 2 just to drop in and hope if I have nothing better to spend the points on, which is unlikely.

S'tan
11-06-2006, 09:15
why is everyone so anti-obliterator :eyebrows:


if you have ever played against them, one lascannon (or a similar str 8/9/10 ap 1/2 shot) and nothing more than a pile of ash remains. well, at least mine, i always fail the 5+ save... :(

Insane Psychopath
11-06-2006, 09:24
I'm a big Iron Warriors player.

Been collecting them like so many other when the Index Astarties came out. My first model being the Warsmith. Also I like converting Obliterators (back then it wa the ugly models, my friend give me a idear useing Plastic models & look 100 time better). I also like useing my Khonre Bezerker back in the day as well, they where fun.

I just like converting models that the end of the day & Chaos Space Marines offer so much conversion & also I like seige warfare... so Iron Warriors, Chaos + Seige warfare.

Also I enjoy how my army grown & got great background from Warsmith turning to Daemon Prince (besinde the model being cool), got names & models for diffrent Lts & A sorcerer. But with the new version of my army I hope to bring back some of these old Lts & Sorcerers.

My own army gain a bit of honour throught out there time like:
+ My first tournament army, Scottish Conflict 2002 (it was my first tournament & first time I'd really game so came bottem 10th)
+ Fought in Eye of Terror

Then I made a new version of my Iron Warriors due to new painting & converting skill in x-mas 2004 & since then

+ Won best painted army in GW Glasgow back in 2005
+ Came 12th in the Scottish Conflict 2005
+ came 3rd for best painted army in Conflict 2005, Greame McNeil like my Pred with Crusifed Ultrmarine
+ Enter UK GT heat 1 2005, miss top 50 by 7pts, all games where hard fought & went ether way until theose last turns.

Right now I am getting my Iron Warriors ready for the UK GT heat 1 in October & it filled with new conversion

Also hopeing when the new Chaos codex come out that the DO spures for each & ever Legion (the 9 we got), so be cool to see a Iron Warriors legion spure.

As for plans as add on to my IW force

+ Sorcerer
+ Termies

There will be the odd squad added on so I can play bigger games. But for now I am getting ready for the UK Grand Tournament :D

IP

BloodiedSword
11-06-2006, 09:26
It's funny, but reading this thread I feel that the cheese/anti-cheese sentiments regarding Iron Warriors are not good even for the fluff players. I'm seeing lots of people who (at a glance) look like they're taking choices they wouldn't normally, just to gain the appearance of non-cheesiness. Is that really any better than cheesing out?

Plus, when you play an army you play it for the fluff, obviously, but also the rules as well. Why bother playing IW with the IW rules, then, if you're then going to not use all the quirks that make them unique? Which is basically the ability to take more than 3 Oblits and 4 HS options, as the Siege masters thing is practically irrelevant.

Things are not so bad that taking 4+ Oblits and 4 HS options automatically marks your army as cheese, though I guess it does make it much more likely. Still, people choosing their armies in a way they don't really want to, just to appease others, is something that just doesn't sit right with me.

Insane Psychopath
11-06-2006, 09:37
I just take what ever work that the end of the day & I like Obliterators as said there I like converting mine... & with the new models they look a lot better. I tend to use 6 Oblits just because I find the models cool & make IWs diffrent from a bog stanhdard Chaos army with 3x Oblits, that why I think IF you do go for Oblits in a IW army ether take 4 min or if it say two split them up.

I do not care what people think about my army as end of the day my army, my money & as said I like useing Oblits & chaos allow me to convert models.

IP

Orbital
11-06-2006, 09:48
can someone please tell me why are iron warriors soooooooo bad, because in my xp, night lords can be a lot bigger pain in the anal hole.

It's really simple. Iron Warriors don't block cheesy players from doing cheesy things, so cheesy players seek out Iron Warriors. Not only cheesy players choose IW; others do as well. There are lots of people who love the fluff and feel of the army, and that's totally fine. Thing is, people who live for a rules-based reason to field 9 Obliterators in as few points as possible are going to pretend they love the fluff and feel, but in truth will only want to jump through the loophole.

IW aren't cheesy in and of themselves, but a gun doesn't fire on its own either... and IW has no trigger lock.

Tanith Ghost
11-06-2006, 10:04
I like the IW as an opponent. Cheese or no, I can be sure my IG will have to fight like wild tigers to win. And I relish a good fight. On that note, I'll raise a glass to these worthy adversaries.

Damien 1427
11-06-2006, 10:09
It's funny, but reading this thread I feel that the cheese/anti-cheese sentiments regarding Iron Warriors are not good even for the fluff players. I'm seeing lots of people who (at a glance) look like they're taking choices they wouldn't normally, just to gain the appearance of non-cheesiness. Is that really any better than cheesing out?

Perhaps. I just take what I like the look of, and it's a real rarity you see a Traitor Legionnaire gunline. Mores the point, I have nothing against people taking four pie-plates, but I just get tired of seeing Vinidcators and Basiliks straight out of the box, with a spiky-bitz sprue thrown on, and painted up Boltgun Metal. To be honest, I can't bloody stand the Defiler model at all, which is why if ever get around to buying one I'll be heavily rebuilding it, probably in the style that everyone else is doing. You know, bipedal mech of death.

As for Bassies and Vindies, I'd just mount the guns onto backs of converted "siege" dreadnoughts. I recall someone saying they've done similar elsewhere, and that they justified mounting such a piece of ordanance by saying that the "Dread" was piloted by an Obliterator. So I may try that out.

Even though I've only two Dreadnoughts (The Old-School Chaos one that looks like **** nowadays. One's painted, terribly, the other was a present from a friend and is still in the box), I'm waiting for the day when I can field four decent-looking ones, simply because to me, that's what they were all about.

As for Obliterators... Ehhh. I don't especially like the concept, and I don't like the models. I've some vague scribblings that involve a plastic ogre, plastic terminators, and a pile of heavy weapons and copious amounts of green-stuff, but I doubt it'll come to fruition. Fair play to people who want to take nine of them, but I'd sooner take a squad of Possessed, or maybe some Chosen.

I keep pondering Bikers, with treads instead of legs and MIU bolters, or maybe techno-Raptors though I'm buggered if I can work out a decent idea for Daemonic Flight in a heavy cybernetic army.

Antaeus
11-06-2006, 12:20
. Mores the point, I have nothing against people taking four pie-plates, but I just get tired of seeing Vinidcators and Basiliks straight out of the box, with a spiky-bitz sprue thrown on, and painted up Boltgun Metal.


That's a personal beef of mine as well. An annoying wee goit took up IW in the store I've always gamed in after the new Codex came out, and went straight for the Space Marine Vindicator box (ie, old Rhino chassis) with some stupidly placed Chaos sprue bits on it. Looked utterly dire. Oh, and used the Warsmith model with no conversion - mine was made of lots of older bits, including the old Archaon's cloak. My Vindicator is a new Rhino with the old Demo cannon and a few carefully placed Chaotic bits - too much and they look ridiculous.

Some little bugger friend of his saw my IW and said that my Warsmith wasn't a Warsmith because 'Warsmiths have servoarms.' ********. They can have them, but plenty don't. Besides, a cloak's way cooler.

Sigh.

Kriegsherr
11-06-2006, 15:23
The IWs have one of the strongest Fluff of all Traiter Legions and Marine Chapters, and because of that I really think its sad that they have got such a bad reputation because of some players just looking for a list open to abuse.

So fluffy IW Players: Kudos for trying to give one of the few Marine Armies with a really strong fluff a better reputation by restricting yourself. I'm quite sure, as long as they are played 'fluffy' and not 'powergamy', they are not much harder to beat as any other army and will make the game a lot of fun.

IWs Rock - Powergamers ****! IWs for the win.

ashc
11-06-2006, 15:36
I loved iron warriors at first (Storm of Iron, good book) but over time i have become disenchanted with them, namely through people's attitudes towards them, and myself. Seems whenever i play a game and win alot of people are easy to dismiss it as just winning because it was with SMs, and even worse, Iron Warriors. Its got the point where im starting a completely new army for COD to prove people very wrong.

Such a shame really, i have 1500pts. of iron warriors for sale now: http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/ashc_2006/ (see the sub-album).

Wish i knew more people like yourselves to play against; i've never used an obliterator!

Ash

Kriegsherr
11-06-2006, 15:50
Really a shame some people seem to "mob" SM Players like that.

They can be good fun to play against, especially if the SM or CSM player gives more thought into how to build a fluffy list than into exploiting loopholes in the armylist.

One of the best games I played was allied to a CSM Player against an vanilla marine player and a Woofie player. The CSM hit worse than any ork could and we got beaten real hard, but it was a fun game. especially because the marine gave their moves good thoughts. They didn't play Gunline or the CC-Storm, They did a clever mobile firepower tactic. Real smart.

I hope the whole SM-hater bussiness will not ruin the game for the SM and CSM players out there. They did some awesome armies and conversions, and I hope they will continue to do so for the years to come.

S'tan
11-06-2006, 21:52
i agree totally


he who wants to play cheese will do that with any army and nothing can prevent that.

and yeah, storm of iron rocks :cool:

Insane Psychopath
11-06-2006, 21:54
11-06-2006 21:52
S'tan
i agree totally


he who wants to play cheese will do that with any army and nothing can prevent that.

and yeah, storm of iron rocks

Greame McNeil planning on dowing another tow books on the warsmith from Storm of Iron/dead sky, black sun (sp). The first of the new books was ment for this year, but with False Gods, it been push back until near end of this year to about start of 2008.

IP

Sons of Russ
11-06-2006, 23:16
You will be purged with purifying flame.

Damien 1427
11-06-2006, 23:20
You will be purged with purifying flame.

You're just bitter you got your bright yellow backsides handed to you, repeatedly, and would have lost your stiff-arsed primarch if it wasn't for the Smurfs running in and saving you.

sigur
12-06-2006, 01:02
Ah, well, "who loves Iron Warriors?".....what a strange idea....:eyebrows:

El Ravager
12-06-2006, 04:01
I play Iron Warriors and I love 'em. I don't abuse them too bad. I use no more than 4 oblitz. I'll usually use all for heavy slots though, but I don't field a bunch of little las/plasma squads. I'll field 3 ordnace from time to time in the form of a vindicator, baskilisk and defiler.

I had a thought on a rule that might make them more balanced. What if instead of simply unrestricting their access to Obliterators, they had allowed Iron Warriors to take more than one unit, but each unit beyond the first took up a heavy support choice? How far would that go towards balancing the list?

Tanith Ghost
12-06-2006, 05:41
That sounds like an idea. Oblits are as mortal as anything else though.
I never saw the big deal in maxing out on them. Fewer targets and fewer wasted bullets that way.

geoffkemp
12-06-2006, 07:43
I play IWs, thogh have only used 4 Heavys once or twice. And those were preditors as well. The most obilitorators I`ve had in my army i two I think.

Eblis_Dead_Forever
12-06-2006, 09:44
I think the problem that people have with Iron Warriors is that when someone sees that they can get 4 Heavy Support choices. They automatically think hey I can get 4 pie plates in here. Of course it would be stupid for an IW player not to take advantage of the fact that he gets access to the vindicator and the basilisk (they lose out on an awful lot so they need to make up for it somehow). I don't think people would mind facing an IW army if it included a Basilisk and a Vindicator but when there are also two defilers in there as well (all with the lovely upgrades they get).

It's like fighting a guard army with power armour and I think thats one of the main problems. It could also have something to do the armour 13 indirect fire battle cannons and the front armour 14 ignore crew stunned and shaken vindicator. Perhaps if people maybe started making use of the other heavy support opptions as well I mean 3 predators and a vindicator would be pretty nasty or 3 dreads and a basilisk or 2 landraiders a pred and a vindicator. I mean you get alot more flexibility and your still making use of those nice vehicles that you get and your 4 heavy support choices.

Or maybe it's just because people don't like pie plates. People gripe at me when I take one Basilisk or Leman Russ in my Ork army doesn't matter that it breaks down half the time :rolleyes:.

I wonder it this thread is an attempt to copy the massively sucessful Who Loves the Orks one?:D

Orbital
12-06-2006, 09:46
I wonder it this thread is an attempt to copy the massively sucessful Who Loves the Orks one?:D

Thing is, I don't know anyone who doesn't love Orks.

Iron Warriors... that's different. :)

Eblis_Dead_Forever
12-06-2006, 10:05
True but I know a guy that absoultly hates the Grots but thats maybe because they killed his terminator squad through shoting. Thats right a 30 man squad of Grots killed 6 terminators through shotting. And thats why we have Grot Appreciation Day. :D My squig also has a day special for itself as well as so far it's killed a hive tryant, a vampire, and a greater demon of nurgle (it only took 2 wounds of it but it delievered the killing blow) and numerous other smaller creatures. :D

Overlord Krycis
12-06-2006, 10:41
I used to play as Iron Warriors...more for the fluff than anything else...the only reason I've stopped is no-one wants to play against them :cries:
I only have 2 Obliterators and use the Basilisk, but not the vindicator (don't own one). The rest of my HS is a dread and two preds.
Does any IW players out there use their Fast Attack slot...?
Mines are filled by 5 strong Biker squad...:D

Eblis_Dead_Forever
12-06-2006, 11:58
I find it strange that alot of people like playing with fluffy armies when said army has lots of nice special rules or has absurd power play potential (I mean most people will jump at the chance to field 4 HS even at the expense of two FA choices). Yet how many people do you see play with a fluffy World Eaters army or Night Lords ? (most people would rather have the option of fielding 3 HS than 4 FA).

I can only speak for myself hear but I can't think of one Iron Warrior player, I know, that fields a nice squad of converted possessed or a cybernetic "demon" prince. Yet is this not also part of their fluff. Or I have yet to see an Iron player play a siege style battle with the fortifications rule, yet again part of their fluff. If you like the fluff should it not be more wide reaching than an excuse to field 4 Heavy Support choices? As I don't think this alone makes for a characterful army.

On the question of obliterators. I don't think that the complaint about them is limited to the whole of I can field 9 of the little buggers. But also to the fact that you field three squads of them, so although someone might only field three that could mean that they opperate independantly of each other. Making them more versatile. I know one guy that fields 4 of them two opperate of their own and the other two deep strike and it is very nasty and highly annoying alot of the time. As for the question of them being easy to kill if you have the right weapons, if your fighting against IW alot of your heavy weapons are going into their 4 HS choices and the obliterators get ignored for a few turns as do their min maxed lascannon/plasma gun squads.:rolleyes:

Antaeus
12-06-2006, 12:07
@Eblis: Personally I don't have a Daemon Prince, but my Possessed are 'normal' Chaos Marines with Flayed One claws for cybernetic assault implants. So we do exist, you just don't seem to have any locally, unfortunately. :( A shame - I know some people say it's a simple scheme, and it is, but I think a nicely done IW force with variety and conversions looks great on the tabletop.

Damien 1427
12-06-2006, 17:09
Eblis_Dead_Forever - Well, I'd rather be "stupid" and not take four pie plates at all in anything less than a six-thousand point game (Which is unlikely, as my combined forces don't get that high, and I don't own four Ordanance vehicles) than put up with people whining. Indeed, I only realised you could take both a Bassie and a Vindy in a single game. Up until yesterday, I had always assumed it was either/or, something that should really be fixed come the new Codex (Which'll be here all too soon).

As for "fluff", well. I was drawn to them by the cybernetics, the dreadnoughts and the potential for insane mechanical creations, such as Siegenoughts or walking Land Raiders. I'm intending to emulate that throughout my army. I just need to get some more finances together and I'll order the first 1250 points of the new blood.

WarSmith7
12-06-2006, 17:31
Why, I love Iron Warriors!

Who doesn't doesnt love paranoid trench monkeys firing big guns at the false emperor?

What drew me the the Iron warriors was the name and the chevron paint scheme.

After a quick read through Index Astartes I was sold.

By far, the Iron warriors have one of the best backrounds out of all the legions, (besides the Alpha Legion and the Word Bearers.)

At 1500 pts I field a Vindicator and Defiler, along with 3 Obilterators.

Revlid
12-06-2006, 17:42
I can only speak for myself hear but I can't think of one Iron Warrior player, I know, that fields a nice squad of converted possessed or a cybernetic "demon" prince. Yet is this not also part of their fluff. Or I have yet to see an Iron player play a siege style battle with the fortifications rule, yet again part of their fluff. If you like the fluff should it not be more wide reaching than an excuse to field 4 Heavy Support choices? As I don't think this alone makes for a characterful army.


That's right. However, Thousand Sons are meant to be able to predict their opponent's moves, and Word Bearers are said to be accompanied by hordes of cultists.

As for the Prince/Possessed? Look them up on the net. You should be able to find about half-a-dozen in as amny minutes.

The_Dragon_Rising
12-06-2006, 18:22
One reason i think that people dont like Iron Warriors is that even a two year old could build a list that could be competitive. Even if you dont use the full 9 Obliterators then you still would want to include the Basilisk and lots more Heavy Targets.
In competitions where you can only use 1 list i could see them being annoying as half of your force would be obselete and fairly useles

Personally though i have no problem with them though i can see where problems could arise.

Overlord Krycis
14-06-2006, 15:41
...I can only speak for myself hear but I can't think of one Iron Warrior player, I know, that fields a nice squad of converted possessed or a cybernetic "demon" prince. Yet is this not also part of their fluff. Or I have yet to see an Iron player play a siege style battle with the fortifications rule, yet again part of their fluff. If you like the fluff should it not be more wide reaching than an excuse to field 4 Heavy Support choices? As I don't think this alone makes for a characterful army...


I have a "nice" squad of converted Possessed...the have HUGE amounts of bionics and mechanical bits to show Daemonic Mutation.

Didn't want a DP for my Iron Warriors...might make one in the future though...

I tried to use the fortifications rule quite a lot, until my regular players stopped letting me pick the missions...:D

I don't always use the 4 HS slots, Sometimes I max out on Infantry with Meltaguns and the like and only take 2 or 3 HS...which is fluffy...

Just to let you know there ARE some fluff-based IW players out there.

Found this pic on the net...