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Mars
11-06-2006, 16:56
With the summer comming up, we've got some 3000+ points battles lined up around here.

Now, I plan on taking a Mordor War Catapult and a Siege Bow for our next battle, but I fear our opponents may forsee this and bring a Trebuchet of their own.

Does Evil stand any chance at all in a siege duel?

In the last fights, they always brought just Avenger Bolt Throwers, saying the Trebuchet wasn't all that impressive against infantry.

I figure a Catapult and a Siege Bow would come in very handy to blow away those tightly packed Warriors of Minas Tirith and High Elves. But from what I understand, a single hit from a Trebuchet can very easily destroy either of them.

Any suggestions? I thought of Grima, but than realised you don't scatter when shooting at Siege Targets. Another solution would be to screen it from sight with Trolls, but that seems like an expensive solution points-wise.

Gondorian
11-06-2006, 17:53
Keep it hidden, it can fire indirectly and provided they don't have any models which can see, you'll be safe from all harm.

Mars
11-06-2006, 18:18
I'll try: the problem is we usually don't have the terrain to do so. Maybe if I sneek in some woods.

Also I've got the problem that it than gets a bit boring.

a) Good stays put and we outshoot them with volley fire.

b) Good advances and we outshoot them directly/defeat them in close combat.

Oh well, that'll teach them to mess with the dark forces...

Neknoh
11-06-2006, 18:43
Just make sure they don't have Radagast The Bown before bringing in your siege equipment, for remember, he counts as seeing the ENTIRE field, meaning the good guys can volley fire and Indirect Fire anything you choose to hide behind something.

Mars
15-06-2006, 10:47
I conciderd Grima again, since he can deploy on the Good side. But they changed his rules, so now he becomes officially Evil when he charges/causes a wound. Plus I'll have more use for him preventing Avengers from shooting or Aragorn from using Might.

I did think of another way to keep the Trebuchet from blowing up the Mordor Catapult on turn one: heroic shooting.

I'll keep a lowly captain near the Catapult and declare heroic shooting. And this way I can preserve the Catapult's Captain Might for influencing the to-hit and wound rolls.

Notna_Highborn
10-07-2006, 18:15
That's a godd tactic and you can improve by putting a few orcs ahead of the Mordor Catapult so you can keep the forces of good atleast one turn from hurting your siege. 5 orcs should do good defence to your siege.

Gondorian
10-07-2006, 20:15
The headapaults are interesting now. Previously they forced courage tests that made enemies run away for a turn. Now if they fail the courage test, they are removed as a casualty. This may be useful against heroes, that get caught in the radius, to use up will points if they roll badly while also reducing the enemy numbers. Most useful against the armies of men who have an average courage of 3.

If you are shielding the siege weapon with orcs you may as well make them siege crew as they can then man the weapon if the origonal crew die. The main projectiles which are effective against siege weapons are other siege weapons which can ignore the orcs anyway.

If you fire a mordor catapault at a trebuchet, do you get the blast radius of rock hitting the crew aswell?
It's been a while since I read the rules.

Brandir
10-07-2006, 23:43
My advice is not to get bogged down with missile fire. Use your seige weapons as a sort of decoy. While your opponent concentrates on them, perhaps you could outflank the Free Peoples?

Do you have any Warg Riders? Use them to take out enemy seige weapons. Better still is a Nazgûl (or two) on a winged steed. These flying Nazgûl are extremely manoeuvreable and can cause lots of panic amongst the enemy of they manage to get the priority

Neknoh
13-07-2006, 09:12
Gondorian, you just rose a very interesting point, why not take two Goblin Drums as well as a Headapult or two, you will now have your enemy roll those courage tests on a courage of 1 in most cases :evilgrin:

Gondorian
13-07-2006, 22:21
I'm not sure that the effects of drums are accumalative. However, consider combining with a nazgul's humble drain courage. With some luck you can have warriors running left right and centre.

Mars
14-07-2006, 09:45
The effects are not accumulative: the entries for the Balrog, Goblin Drum, Sauron, Ringwraiths... all clearly state so.

I've recently discovered the full potential of the Goblin Drum: I always figured it was just a rather expensive and easy to kill banner, but it's just plain fun when the enemy troops start fleeing the field and Aragorn has to use all his might and will not to do so (until I squished him with a Druburz/Troll combo, the wush...).

In this game they tend to charge a full point for each point of Courage. So if in a 1000 points game I have 80 Goblins, that'll give me an 80 points return (not counting the increased value for characters), although with Shamans that's not a big deal. Even better though, you can count another point for each enemy (and more for Heroes).

So I figure the Drum is a very nice piece of equipment, in bigger games even without the re-roll it gives.

On topic, I've only used Catapults in bigger games, but than you always face plenty of High Elves.
But with Legions of Middle Earth comming up we'll start playing more themed battles, so we'll see mainly humans than. Meaning a Drum, 2 Headapults and blast away!

I think the Drum is definitly worth it, especially in bigger games: a single good turn can see half the enemy troops run away!

Neknoh
14-07-2006, 17:43
I was under the impression that the Drum actually was commulative with other drums, but that the effects of the Balrog, Sauron and Nazguls where not

Mars
15-07-2006, 13:38
page 103, Drum entry:
"note that this is not cumulative with other rules that confer similar penalties"

page 100, fromt he Balrog entry:
"note that this is not cumulative with other rules that confer similar penalties, such as the Moria Goblin Drum"

Mars
18-07-2006, 09:36
I've been concidering Grima again: deploy him near the enemy catapult and

a) force the enemy catapult Captain to pay double for his might.
b) charge the enemy catapult Captain, which will keep him from helping with shooting the first turn, but will cost you Grima.
c) deploy Grima in contact with the enemy siege weapon. I seem to understand from the rules that a model can operate an enemy siege weapon. Grima being untrained crew, the enemy siege weapon will now only hit on a 6. But that does bring up the question if Grima can really "help", and if he can choose another target (Aragorn comes to mind).