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View Full Version : Where to Go After Island of Blood



Lamont Cranston
10-03-2014, 03:11
So my friend just started playing after I gave him Island of Blood set. Now that he has played a couple games with that he wants to expand both the armies. I don't play Skaven or High Elves, so I told him to maybe just buy a battalion of each and see from there. Just wondering if High Elves or Skaven players out that have suggestions to boost them up to around 2,000 - 2,500?

The bearded one
10-03-2014, 06:27
First of all I'd advice him to pick one army first to expand upon, because expanding both to that large a size will be expensive, and a lot of painting and building ;)

Secondly, there are practically endless directions to go in with both armies, so his avenues of expansion will primarily depend on what kind of units or trooptypea he likes, and to bulk out the units he got from Island of blood. Some extra lothern seaguard wouldn't hurt, for example.

But the batallions aren't too bad a way to start. The high elf batallion might be the lesser of the two, because none of the units in it are the same as the island of blood (meaning he'll just have a whole lot more undersized units, rather than bulking existing ones). The skaven batallion is quite good. You get extra rat ogres to double up the rat ogre unit, and you get 40 more clanrats/slaves, doubling up those as well.

Alternatively he can buy a second Island of blood box. The mini's are great, you're getting them for good value, and you can sell the little rulebook on Ebay or trade it with someone else or something, and recoup a couple bucks while making someone very happy.

I Am Forsaken
10-03-2014, 06:59
I'd second the second IoB box, especially if he chooses to do the High Elves first. The spearmen/seaguard from the crappy core set look terrible when compared to the IoB ones and i dont think you can even get the old swordmasters any more. As for expanding some bolt throwers and a phoenix would probably be a good start, as well as a character or 2 as you probably wont want to use the griffon rider all that often.

SimaoSegunda
10-03-2014, 07:14
First port of call is the army books. Once he has those, he can start working out some army lists with what he has, and plan his purchases better.

Personally speaking, plague monks and more clanrats for the Skaven and silver helms or white lions for the high elves would be amongst my first purchases.

Lastavenger
10-03-2014, 07:26
Second IoB and one battalion for each race will allow you to build (with some converting of skaven characters) around 1600 pts armies. From this you can easily expand to higher numbers (most of your units will come from core).

cptcosmic
10-03-2014, 09:58
first get the the army books and second you can make a nice HE army around the IOB set. with a two more IOB boxes, 2 Skycutters and 2 repeating bolt throwers and you have a 2k army that looks beautiful, is very well themed and also functional:

lvl4 Archmage
Noble BSB on Griffon

25 LSG with shields & full command
2x5 Reaver with Bows

2x15 Swordmasters with full command
2 Skycutters with Bolt Thrower

2 Repeating Bolt Throwers
=> exactly 2000 points

Shakkara
10-03-2014, 12:24
Buying a second box doesnt really work with the high elves cause all these units have command groups in them that you cannot modify into normal troopers.

I agree that he should pick one army to focus on first instead of starting out with both.

In case of high elves, the cheapest way to get a playable army would be...
2 more boxes of sea guard
box of silver helms
prince & noble box,
2x chariot OR dragon princes OR 2x white lions
2x bolt thrower OR phoenix

Build up the mounted prince and put in silver helm unit for nice 3x3 formation.
Build the hero on foot and put him into sea guard and deploy 7x3.
With either of these they can just act as normal champion or actually be used as character.

His existing swordmasters are fine as small unit of 10, would not expand on that as lions/phoenixguard are better, unless you can get some of them off ebay.

Once he got that, he should decide if he wants a cavalry army or infantry army and expand his core and special section accordingly.

Lastavenger
10-03-2014, 13:32
Buying a second box doesnt really work with the high elves cause all these units have command groups in them that you cannot modify into normal troopers. You know that you could use command grups from two IoB and 20 "sea guard" from battalion to build two units of 20 guys? 5x4? For front row use IoB models who look much better and rest fill with spearmen with bows. That said i'm not sure what to do with CG from swordmasters. But even without them you still have 17 guys, enough to build 8x2 unit.

warhammerscotlandplayer
10-03-2014, 14:45
If he goes for Skaven, probably a HPA and some war machines.

High Elves, a Frostie is a decent choice as is the Bolt Throwers, i suggest if he can get a hold of one, is the previous High Elves Battalion, which has the bolt thrower in it. then buy the character models / mage kit.

SuperHappyTime
10-03-2014, 22:19
As an alternative to a second box, I might suggest patrolling eBay for the halves of armies others don't want.

Lamont Cranston
10-03-2014, 23:40
As far as the Skaven battalion goes both the clan rats and slaves that come in the Island of Blood set have shields. I looked at some army lists and it doesn't seem like many people take shields or spears on their slaves or clan rats? Would he be wasting models trying to buff out those units?

SSquirrel
11-03-2014, 05:55
Most people won't care if u say "IoB models, no shields". So long as it isn't a tourney super focused on WYSIWYG u will
Be fine. Honestly if someone calls u out on that they are just being a dick. IoB halves are the best way to boost a skaven army and shields are on. Unless u wanna saw them all off and magnetize for the weird times u want a shield. If the clan rats are a bunker unit I always go shields, never on slaves

Schmapdi
11-03-2014, 06:28
With Skaven your choices are sadly limited if you want to avoid the old, terrible monkey-Skaven minis. (I'd suggest avoid the battalion too because of the atrocious old rat ogres). I'd say get a Doomwheel, some Stormvermin and a Warp lightning cannon, then wait patiently for the next Skaven release.

The bearded one
11-03-2014, 07:10
Shields aren't too shabby. Heck, I even have them on my slave units, because they're IoB models, and the shield upgrade is cheap anyway. If you desperately don't want shields, you could always have a big unit of clanrats/slaves (say.. 40), and fill the front half of the unit with non-shield models, and put the IoB models in the backranks. Just indicate it to your opponent at the start of the game.

Sirius
11-03-2014, 10:04
I would definately go with multiple IoB's myself.

1) The High elf models in the batallion look horrid in comparison to the High Elf mini's in the IoB
2) You can get a significant amount of mini's for each army, for Less* than a battalion for either *(especially considering that you can sell the rulebook for a bit on ebay too).
3) 2-3 Island of Blood's make for an excellent "core" to each army. And can go so much further if you dont mind your hand at converting.

After a 2nd or 3rd Island of blood, for High Elves I'd pick up a phoenix as with the spare griffons from island of blood, you can generally get two phoenix's from the one kit.
Example halfway down this blog: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29681&start=180
Also, so far as "wasted" command models go for high elves... check out:
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39574&p=763911&hilit=converting+IoB+seaguard+command#p763911
and
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39556
for conversion ideas. I for one think that the swordmaster champ makes an excellent base for a loremaster :)

After the 2nd or 3rd IoB for Skaven... well, I'd keep on going personally :P More clanrats is always a good thing, and you'll always find a use for those warmachines, characters, and rat ogres. Plus Extra high Elf bits!
As far as different units go - I'd say you cant go wrong with doomwheels (AND you get 9 giant rats per doomwheel) and a hellpit probably wouldnt go amiss either.

In short, Island of blood is a FANTASTIC set, that gets even better, the more you're happier to convert.

Spork
11-03-2014, 16:50
Buying a second box doesnt really work with the high elves cause all these units have command groups in them that you cannot modify into normal troopers.

With most plastic CG models it is quite easy and (a lot of) fun to convert them into 'normal' troops. As for the IoB SM command, you just have to remove the banner/horn and put a nice Sword into their hand. I converted them like that myself and I like the former standard bearer leaning on his Sword in particular. He looks exactly like the SM art in the 4(?) edition HE AB! Since I'm at work I don't have any pictures to post, but I can post some this evening if you like. Although I think the links that Sirius provided are a good source of inspiration too! :-)

edit:
I also recommend to purchase both HE Hero and Mage dual kit. They provide you with some wonderful bits to convert some other characters!

Lamont Cranston
12-03-2014, 07:07
Thanks everyone for their suggestions and comments. I just had two more quick questions does anyone know if the seaguard models that come in the painting set are the same as the ones from the IoB set? Also how do the finecast sword masters rank up size wise and such to the ones from the IoB set? Would they look ok if you put them in the back ranks, or are they way different?

SSquirrel
12-03-2014, 13:50
Pretty sure they are the same
Models. I have a friend giving me a painted IoB (both halves) but don't have it yet. Picked up that painting set for my wife to try her hand before working on my skaven

The bearded one
12-03-2014, 15:08
The IoB swordmasters mixed with finecast swordmasters will probably look okay if you mix it all together ranking up. If you neatly divide them amongst front and backranks, you'll notice that divide quickly when looking at the unit on the table.

EvanM
14-03-2014, 16:13
He shouldnt necessarily have to pick, having 2 2000pt armies is nice! then you can play with new people who dont have armies when the come over.

Personally definitely start with battalions. They are fun! and they offer the exact right proportion of troops to bulk out the armies.

and skaven clanrats/slaves should always be given shields. ITS FRICKEN HALF A POINT. for realz guys

SSquirrel
14-03-2014, 17:35
and skaven clanrats/slaves should always be given shields. ITS FRICKEN HALF A POINT. for realz guys

Math disagrees w u. I give clan rats who will be a bunker for a caster or bsb shields but that's it

Imperator64
17-03-2014, 13:13
Yeah i'm pretty sure the paint set sea guard models are the same. It's a handy way to get useful stuff when starting out.
For skaven, rat ogres are in both the iob and the battalion but the battalion ones are ugly. You get plague monks in the battalion aswell but these are ugly too. Iob is probably the most cost effective way to go at the moment and its hard to have too many clanrats/slaves. As for the next purchase doomwheels and hpa's are both brilliant and the doomwheel fits into a 600pt list, the hpa into a 1000pt. Enjoy.

@allmyownbattles
27-03-2014, 02:27
I'm confused as to why everyone seems to prefer IoB to the battalion as a good option for skaven. They both have a load of clanrats. Aside from the fact the rat ogres are better models in IoB, I'd much rather have a unit of plague monks then some duplicate weapon teams and some duplicate characters. Are folks basing it purely on the fact you can sell all the other IoB stuff on eBay and get your money back?

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Importman
27-03-2014, 03:30
I'm confused as to why everyone seems to prefer IoB to the battalion as a good option for skaven. They both have a load of clanrats. Aside from the fact the rat ogres are better models in IoB, I'd much rather have a unit of plague monks then some duplicate weapon teams and some duplicate characters. Are folks basing it purely on the fact you can sell all the other IoB stuff on eBay and get your money back?

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Just like you said. You can sell stuff off you don't need/want in eBay to recover some of your cost. Better sculpted miniatures.

I do agree with you that plague monks are more useful in game for the same numbers but then that's about it going for the battalion. You can also get plague monks for pretty cheap second hand. In fact if you don't mind going that way you can get whole skaven armies for fairly decent prices second hand.

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@allmyownbattles
28-03-2014, 00:48
Just like you said. You can sell stuff off you don't need/want in eBay to recover some of your cost. Better sculpted miniatures.

The sculpts are the same on the clanrats though, no?

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Importman
28-03-2014, 02:48
The sculpts are the same on the clanrats though, no?

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Similar for clanrats you are right. Only real difference is for the clanrat box the arms are more customisable but I prefer the IoB rats as they are easier to assemble.

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