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liddan
13-03-2014, 22:29
Writing this for a buddy who has problems getting into warseer atm. It's from a topic on CotEC (the WoC specific site)

The scenario in question is how channeling works with reroll 1's (mark of tzeentch) and +1 to channel from for example channeling staff. Does a 1 become a 2 and you don't get to reroll it or does your 6+ channel become a 5+ and you can still roll a 1?

The rulebook doesn't specifically say that it works like armor save where a heavy armour for example gets you a 5+ so you can still roll a 1. This also becomes relevant when you have magic items that does "The bearer counts his armour save as being two points higher than normal" in combination with for example harmonic convergence from lore of heavens.

Page numbers not opinions please :)

Hive Mind 33
13-03-2014, 23:47
I believe it is still a one and the +1 is just a modifier added after the roll. So it would be a roll of a one on the die.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
13-03-2014, 23:53
The channeling rules on page 30 make a distinction between the roll and the result. Channeling staff works on the latter, MoT on the former. So a '1' on the die is a '2' result but still counts as rolling a '1' for the purposes of MoT in my mind. That seems like the most common-sense interpretation at least.

theunwantedbeing
14-03-2014, 00:30
The scenario in question is how channeling works with reroll 1's (mark of tzeentch) and +1 to channel from for example channeling staff. Does a 1 become a 2 and you don't get to reroll it or does your 6+ channel become a 5+ and you can still roll a 1?
Mark of Tzeentch (page WoC book) says you can re-roll channel results of a 1
The Arcane Familiar (page 61, WoC book) says you get +1 to channel attempts
Channel (page 30, Rulebook) says for each roll of a 6 you get the dice.

So with the Arcane Familiar a roll of a 1 becomes a 2 so no re-roll as it's the result that matters according to the mark of Tzeentch.

With channel attempts it merely says the roll.
So +1 to the attempt would mean you'd still need to roll a 6.
A 5 would fail, as it's not a 6 even though the result would be a 6.
A 6 would pass, as it's a 6 even though the result would be a 7.

It doesn't seem to actually be covered in the rules......
Or the FAQ.

It's obviously heavily implied how it is supposed to work by virtue of certain items existing but it isn't explicitly stated how it works.


The rulebook doesn't specifically say that it works like armor save where a heavy armour for example gets you a 5+ so you can still roll a 1. This also becomes relevant when you have magic items that does "The bearer counts his armour save as being two points higher than normal" in combination with for example harmonic convergence from lore of heavens.
Armour modifiers go on the saving throw, so you'de have to count the extra to the armour before this point as it's not a dice modifier. (page 43, Rulebook)
So Harmonic convergence wouldn't do anything like be disallowed or more likely to work.

I don't think there are any bonuses to armour save rolls anywhere in the game for that matter.

SteveW
14-03-2014, 00:59
Writing this for a buddy who has problems getting into warseer atm. It's from a topic on CotEC (the WoC specific site) Why were they unable to solve the problem there?


The scenario in question is how channeling works with reroll 1's (mark of tzeentch) and +1 to channel from for example channeling staff. Does a 1 become a 2 and you don't get to reroll it or does your 6+ channel become a 5+ and you can still roll a 1?The mark of Tzeench does not say "natural rolls of 1" so you use the modified number. With a bonus +1 you cannot roll a 1 so you never get a re-roll.


The rulebook doesn't specifically say that it works like armor save where a heavy armour for example gets you a 5+ so you can still roll a 1. This also becomes relevant when you have magic items that does "The bearer counts his armour save as being two points higher than normal" in combination with for example harmonic convergence from lore of heavens. This has absolutely nothing to do with your question in any way shape or form.


Page numbers not opinions please :) p.24 WoC army book and P.6 "general principals" would be a great section to read in the BRB it appears you've skipped it.

moonlapse
14-03-2014, 18:24
Mark of Tzeentch (page WoC book) says you can re-roll channel results of a 1
The Arcane Familiar (page 61, WoC book) says you get +1 to channel attempts
Channel (page 30, Rulebook) says for each roll of a 6 you get the dice.

So with the Arcane Familiar a roll of a 1 becomes a 2 so no re-roll as it's the result that matters according to the mark of Tzeentch.

With channel attempts it merely says the roll.
So +1 to the attempt would mean you'd still need to roll a 6.
A 5 would fail, as it's not a 6 even though the result would be a 6.
A 6 would pass, as it's a 6 even though the result would be a 7.
.

So by this logic the arcane familiar doesn't actually improve your chances of channelling a dice? How is that any different from saying if you need a 3+ to hit, and you have +1 to hit, a 2 still fails because you still need to roll 3+ to hit. That makes no sense. If you need a 6+ to channel, and you get +1 to channel, then rolls of both 5 and 6 would channel, obviously.

theunwantedbeing
14-03-2014, 20:04
If you need a 6+ to channel, and you get +1 to channel, then rolls of both 5 and 6 would channel, obviously.

Obviously.
But if you read page 30 of the rules where it covers how to channel is just says that you have to roll a 6 on a D6, not that you have to roll a 6+.

So according to RAW, +1 to channel doesn't provide any actual benefit.

orionwoodking
15-03-2014, 07:47
I agree with you to some extent but in the general principals section the rulebook says (under the 'modifying dice rolls' section) "roll the dice and add the number given to get the final result"
I believe that channeling is not on the unmodified roll of a six, but the modified roll of a six