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TheBearminator
21-03-2014, 12:15
DE is my new love, but I get a bit get a bit depressed when I see how the fragile glass hammer army isn't even the fastest in the game anymore, with the new Eldar codex with its battle focus and super maneuverable flyers.

Overall I think DE is fun to play, but I'd like some units to be more competitive. Mandrakes most of all. And I'd like to see wyches and other cc units get the boost they need to fulfill their cc role rather than hunting vehicles. Also, all the skimmers seem great value to me but the flyers not so much. I think they need a buff or a price drop. Maybe I'm off chart here and it's just the stupid ravager being to cheap.

Overall I'd like DE to be lightning fast and fight dirty. I'd like to see rules that gives us the initiative over all other armies in the game, as a tradeoff for being so squishy. I wonder how they will return that balance, as eldar are now such a swift force (without assault vehicles, I know), and still so much more resilient.

archie-d
21-03-2014, 12:42
Mandrakes definitely need some love.

I'd also like to see scourges, hellions and chronos' all get some attention.

Camman1984
21-03-2014, 13:04
I'd like to see a deep strikable webway portal, so you dont need to spend ages getting your archon into place, or maybe a vehicle that can open one as it flys by.

I think speed wise they already do ok but things like vector dance seem fair. Maybe give their transports an upgrade allowing them to move 12 before disembarking, i think that extra 6 inches would make quite a battlefield difference.

I think splinter rifles need a strength of 3 so they get wound rerolls vs guard and weaker.

Marshal
21-03-2014, 13:12
The flyers are awesome... I don't know why you haven't seen much success with them.

Anywho, I think maybe if hellions got some sort of jink save, I think that alone would save them. Their 5+ save is garbage with their toughness and a squad of bolter marines can easily decimate a squad in a round of shooting.

Raiders need a drop in points (just a minor one of maybe 10ish).

Scourges need a drop in points.

Lances need to come back down a bit in points. 10 points for a lance in their first dex was a little cheap, but currently, they're too expensive. I've yet to see anyone field them on anything other than raiders/ravagers.

I'd like to see a revert to the way the shadowfield gets rolled. The current rules slows the game down a lot.

I'd like mandrakes to start with a hidden deployment and be able to charge the turn they arrive (though I know nothing else in the game can any more, but it's a hope).
Along with that, I'd like to see the decapitator become an IC so he's not completely useless...

Remove the restriction on Drazhar joining squads. Other phoenix lords lost it, Drazhar will too.

Webway effecting some allies (not desperate though, and maybe not even AOC's) and maybe the possibility of charging from it. Would be nice to see vehicles using it again though I doubt this will happen.

Most of the stuff is just minor tweaks here and there of points (mostly dropping 1 or 2). I don't foresee them getting any more rules unless they drop Power from Pain as that seems to be our army unique rule.

Horus38
21-03-2014, 13:26
I'd like to see a deep strikable webway portal, so you dont need to spend ages getting your archon into place, or maybe a vehicle that can open one as it flys by.

Deep strike would make more sense to me - "It's been there the whole time you silly Mon-keigh!" :)

T10
21-03-2014, 13:55
How about some Dark Eldar fortifications in the codex? That would be new.

-T10

TheBearminator
21-03-2014, 13:55
I'm really interested in what the super heavy trend will do for us. Don't see a heavy walker joining the DE ranks. But maybe a giant heamie creation. Or a big heavy skimmer? We only have one of those (the ravager, though some would argue it's not a very big one). A new skimmer chassis would be awesome!

TheBearminator
21-03-2014, 14:54
How about some Dark Eldar fortifications in the codex? That would be new.

-T10

Yeah, that'd be great! I really like the artwork of the dark city in the codex. It's a shame you can't easily put five miles high gothic skyscrapers on the table. Somehow I imagine though that very few battles involving DE take place anywhere near any DE buildings or fortifications, since they'll probably fight most of their enemies during real space raids.

Krucifus
21-03-2014, 15:32
But it'd be perfect for inter-cabal wars

Knifeparty
21-03-2014, 15:49
I'd like to see all close combat elements worth taking.

Witches get dodge save on over watch

Phantasm grenade launchers give units shrouding and defensive/assault grenades

Incubi gain fear and assault grenades

Night shields give shrouding

Shadow fields are a permanent 2++

Webway portal is a fortification that is placed as terrain. You can also assault out of it.

Blood brides can either choose their combat drugs or roll twice.

True born have ghost plate armour instead of kabalite.

As far as new units go, I'd like to see lots of new stuff for incubi like a chariot and more weapon options and a lord choice.

Bikes and sky boards available to hq.

Reserves Bonuses, the one army in the game that should be all about sneaking around and assaulting out of nowhere has literally no reserve bonuses. ridiculous.

A special rule for disembarking from destroyed vehicles. When a vehicle is destroyed, the to wound roll is against initiative instead of toughness to show how quick the Dark Eldar are that they can jump off before the explosion takes their lives. This way you won't loose literally half of your unit when a Raider is destroyed.

Rabbitden
21-03-2014, 15:52
Weird – I’ve also just started a D’Eldar army (first battleforce + extras despatched today J) and was just about to write up a wishlist when you Ninja’d me!

/. With the age of ‘Superheavies’ and ‘Pay-to-win’ models, i’d like to see a ‘Super Talos’ or other monstrosity to keep pace with the other ‘big robots’.

/. Forgeworld already do a large super-skimmer in the Tantalus but it’d be great to get a superheavy in plastic.

/. We don’t have any dual build kits that seem to be all the rage these days. I’m not sure what these could be as Kabalites and Wyches have pretty defined roles on the battlefield. It wouldn’t be right to have a cc version of Kabalites and a shooty version of Wyches.

/. We need to become the fastest army in the game again! Eldar (and Tau) can out manoeuvre us.

/. Assaulting from a webway portal is essential. It’s fluffy if nothing else!

/. Beastpacks – these models are awful! Give us plastics and make them cheaper!

/. Can we not have ‘dodge/Jink’ saves on Hellions & Scourges?

/. Readdress mandrakes.

/. Plastic wracks/grotesques please.

/. Give us back our Wyches (CC specialists - not tank hunters)

/. Looking at most other codexs they all seem to have a wide variety of ‘tank’ options. We only have the Raider (transport) and Ravager (gunship). Maybe this is because I am soley a guard player and am spoilt for choice in the tank department but could we not have some extra options for ‘gunship skimmers’? – This may grate on the D’Eldar philosophy of lightning attacks -too many gunships will undoubtedly slow them down?

jimfolks
21-03-2014, 16:18
Actually I think a lot can be fixed with just 1 or 2 changes.
New DE rules
> +1 BS when firing Snap Shots (really makes us a much faster army and able to shoot from speed)
This would fix a lot of our issues from AA to a true raiding theme attack
> Give Hellions and Scourges a 2d6 move in assault phase like jetpacks (speed)

> Rework Pain tokens
Any time a DE unit forces an opposing unit to make a Leadership test or unit destroyed the DE player gets a Pain Token. (We should get pleasure from their pain not their death)
You may spend your tokens to buff your army (not individual units)

So spend 5 Pain Tokens to buy each ability (FNP, Furious Charge, Fearless) So you can buy them in the order you want them as opposed to work your way down the list to what you want. I have found I will often blast a unit to 2 or 3 models and then just leave it alone. No reason for me to waste 40 shots on 3 guys. With this you can even add other abilities that make sense for Dark Eldar. Such as Stealth,

What are your thoughts?

All Cing Eye
21-03-2014, 16:50
I hope they stay away from adding a big robot or superheavy to the DE. I feel it's not their style.

I would like to see a slightly larger skimmer. One that can be built as a slave barge, a gunship, or a command barge. It doesn't have to be a superheavy but the gunship should certainly be capable of bringing down one.

I'd also like to see plastic models for Wracks and Grotesques.

I think each of the three main themes for the DE: Coven, Arena, and Kabalite should get new units and plastic kits so there's more variety when playing a themed force.

Camman1984
21-03-2014, 17:13
As fluffy as it is i think they should stay away from assaulting out of a webway portal, it would make it too powerful and become the 'default' build. I would like to see something like they get shrouding when within 6 inches of the portal to represent the warp distortions, providing defence, but allowing basically your entire reserve section to come charging out would be ott.

Knifeparty
21-03-2014, 17:20
It would't be overpowered if only one unit per turn could use the web way portal to deep strike. It's no more over powered than Interceptor, they get a free shot when you enter the board. At least with assault out of deep strike you have to actually roll for reserves, roll charge distance, take overwatch to the face, only to get into combat where you can also be killed. Assault out of deep strike is no where near as broken as some of the shooting combo's available to armies now.

The assault rules for 6th are so broken, standing out in the open for one round of shooting is suicide for any army, especially Dark Eldar.

TheBearminator
21-03-2014, 17:55
Yeah, I forgot the blood brides! Please give them some unique gear and define their role with some buff like the suggested "let them choose their drugs". And give them a new name (not essential).

Also I think the limitation with a maximum of one assaulting unit out of a webway portal is really sound.

Marshal
21-03-2014, 18:25
Ah, forgot about the reaver jetbike! I want a reaver HQ with the ability to take reavers as troops... They talk about all these reaver gangs, and hellion gangs, but with the exception of a single special character HQ, there's no way to get either as troops. Why must a reaver gang be hired in order to do a realspace raid?

TheBearminator
21-03-2014, 19:33
Ah, forgot about the reaver jetbike! I want a reaver HQ with the ability to take reavers as troops... They talk about all these reaver gangs, and hellion gangs, but with the exception of a single special character HQ, there's no way to get either as troops. Why must a reaver gang be hired in order to do a realspace raid?

I've said that a thousand times. Can't believe I forgot it now. (D)eldar jetbikes are the fastest unit in the game. We're supposed to be the swiftest, meanest bastards out there. Give us jetbikes as troops! And while you're at it, give reavers the chance to reroll when determining combat drugs. :)

T10
22-03-2014, 17:05
As fluffy as it is i think they should stay away from assaulting out of a webway portal, it would make it too powerful and become the 'default' build.

Yep, the Internet has sweaty rage-dreams of being able to assault-on-arrival.

-T10

MajorWesJanson
22-03-2014, 17:34
What I want:
Bomber kit released
Dais of Destruction becomes a distinct vehicle, larger and AV12 with room for 20 models- a land raider version of the raider. Similar to the Tantalus, but smaller and plastic.
Wrack/Haemi plastic combo kit.
New unit: Wretches- slave troops modified by Haemis as cheap cannon fodder. Similar in role and price to Cultists or Grots.

Ironbone
22-03-2014, 19:09
No models, rules and fluff taken from (_!_).

That's absouletly enough for me :p

Johnmclane
22-03-2014, 20:13
Assault on arrival was completly unique though and although powerful predictable. I loved it !

Skickat från min GT-I9505 via Tapatalk

Chem-Dog
23-03-2014, 12:44
I'd love to be able to make and take a Scourge Lord. I've got the hots for Scourges and would love to build an army dominated by the flappy freaks.

Otherwise, I'd just want more models that keep to the brilliant aesthetic of the army as it is. There are so many units in the book which could be expanded effortlessly (CotA, Beastmasters, Pain Engines to name the most obvious in my mind).

The Haemonculus "Carnival of Flesh" aspect of the army alone is a virtually unending wellspring of new nightmarish vivisect creatures, pick a niche and you could easily create a macabre adaptation the Haemonculi can craft to fill it....
Like this -


New unit: Wretches- slave troops modified by Haemis as cheap cannon fodder. Similar in role and price to Cultists or Grots.

Creatures utterly broken by the tender ministrations of the fleshwrights, motivated by abject fear of their tormentors they are goaded towards the enemy (or perhaps run at the enemy with the hope they will finally be freed from their misery). Could award PfP tokens when they die, could even be targetted by other rmodels in the same army (swamp the enemy with Wretches then saunter over and Shattershard/Liquifier Gun them all). Causing Fear (from their hideously mutilated appearance) and Fearless (either too scared of the Haemonculi or operating on a death wish).

OOh, for added cool. Make them equipment that is bough by a Haemonculus, so they're not even an FOC slot (no VP's for killing the leftovers from last-night's feast!). Perhaps have them manifesting from a webway pocket owned by the Haemonculus for a Suddenly Wretches! defence against would be attackers.

titilititi
23-03-2014, 13:31
A very big, big, big torture machine
More psychological effects, increased by fast (maybe a way to cancel overwatch)
More poison (is that possible? ^^)

And maybe a better way to play eldar pirates (miniatures and rules : not as sadistic as cabalyte warriors, but still, a lot more badass than guardians)

Dr.Clock
23-03-2014, 14:09
While I respect the desire to have weak meatshields on the table, we need to understand that GW is unlikely to make a kit for it, and as a result probably won't put it in the list. It's these kinds of things that allying in Chaos was basically made for. There are all kinds of counts-as things outside of the ubiquitous Eldar that can be used to interesting effect (Cultists and Daemon Prince as 'wretches' and a flesh-crafted Haemo-terror?)

I think Wracks themselves, however, could certainly use a tweak. Mostly, I think limiting them to 10 models is a problem. If their poison was optional, you could easily knock a couple points off and build a kind of 'zombie+' unit out of them. That being said, I'd happily take a unit of 20 as-is if I could. Could be a Great tarpit to clog the centre.

I'll obviously double down on the idea of changing the webway portal. I'm not exactly sure what the best way to change it is, though. While of course going directly into assault is OUR preferred option, I think GW is unlikely to go that route. Of course, it could be argued that the expense we incur currently in trying to place the thing correctly warrants the assault ability... but I really dislike the placement mechanic anyway.

My preferred options are to either get a fortification we can purchase. It would be smallish, but you could get up to 3 as a single fortification. Units from reserve would be able to Deepstrike without scatter within 12" of any of them. This is not unlike some characters who provide Infiltrate and the like to numbers of units, but it doesn't have the randomness of Outflank. The enemy can position to cover them though - you can't choose any point on the board edge to come in.

Alternatively, just do something like Daemon Icons... allow certain characters to 'tether' one or more units in reserve to them - when they become available the unit may Deepstrike anywhere within 12" of the bearer without scatter.

Pricing these will be difficult - it's hard to know whether to have them priced per-unit that intends to DS in that manner, or to make it more expensive, but universally applicable.

I really like the stated idea of giving units in transports a method of 'disembarking' that doesn't result in them dying in droves when their rides explode. It seems like our transports being open-topped, and being Eldar, DE should get SOME use out of their leaping abilities.

The lack of any mobility upgrades on Archons is silly.

Talos. I want them to be amazing. They are not. The WL works because it can plink away to great effect at range, and still face down many units all on its lonesome in assault. The Talos basically needs to have a 'jetpack' to help it get up to the front, but also to keep it firing on the move.

I think the above-stated idea of allowing wyches to take their dodge saves against overwatch is a really good one. Other than that, I really don't think they need much. I'd rather they be vulnerable and roughly what they cost currently. I think many people want them to be heavy-hitters, and they will never really be that - they are tarpits and spoilers, and really good at that job for the points.

Kabalites. These unfortunately suffer from being unexceptional and uninteresting except as scoring bodies in transports. I think letting them fire at their regular BS from transports moving at combat Speed would make them super cool. Don't these guys essentially spend their days tooling around shooting from their rides? It'd be nice if we got something to compare to Battle Focus. Essentially, I think the kabalites struggle as a result of being unable to effectively use both their speed and their weapons. If I wanted a unit that moved and fired 6" a turn, I'd be using infantry. This will make kabalites and trueborn the holy terrors they really should be. Admittedly, it almost obliges you to mount them to use their ability... but that's not really anything new, is it?

MAKE A PLASTIC BEAST PACK BOX (although I'm kind of getting a kick out of trying to kitbash my own) - even a 5-Khymerae Box a la the Fenrisian Wolves...

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

MajorWesJanson
24-03-2014, 18:30
Creatures utterly broken by the tender ministrations of the fleshwrights, motivated by abject fear of their tormentors they are goaded towards the enemy (or perhaps run at the enemy with the hope they will finally be freed from their misery). Could award PfP tokens when they die, could even be targetted by other rmodels in the same army (swamp the enemy with Wretches then saunter over and Shattershard/Liquifier Gun them all). Causing Fear (from their hideously mutilated appearance) and Fearless (either too scared of the Haemonculi or operating on a death wish).

OOh, for added cool. Make them equipment that is bough by a Haemonculus, so they're not even an FOC slot (no VP's for killing the leftovers from last-night's feast!). Perhaps have them manifesting from a webway pocket owned by the Haemonculus for a Suddenly Wretches! defence against would be attackers.

That was pretty much my idea for them as well, just you took the time to type out the lovely description rather than just the base idea.

I'd like to see Webway portals become a fortification (taken by DE and Eldar both) as say 1-3 at 50 points each, treat it as a board edge for deployment. Maybe make it a T8 2+ save 3 wound model for 50 points. Since fortifications deploy in your table half, you can put them midfield at the start, and start using them turn 2. If the enemy shoots at them to kill them, they aren't shooting at your units.

Plastic beast pack would be nice. Maybe a mixed pack of 2 sprues with a beastmaster on board (maybe throw in parts to make the baron as well) 2 razorwing flocks, a spined beast, 3-4 khimaerae models, and maybe a new beast.

Rabbitden
26-03-2014, 08:56
What with the new trend of taking things out of a regular codex and putting them into 'supplemental codexes', I hope GW don't have the awful idea of splitting out Kabalites, Wyches & Covens into 3 books. That would ruin the army as all three parts work together to make the whole.

Goshawk
26-03-2014, 09:02
What with the new trend of taking things out of a regular codex and putting them into 'supplemental codexes', I hope GW don't have the awful idea of splitting out Kabalites, Wyches & Covens into 3 books. That would ruin the army as all three parts work together to make the whole.


This definitely will NOT happen. I don't think you have anything to worry about :)

For me, let me put my archon on a Reaver Jetbike. I don't even care if it makes Reavers troops, I just want him to be on a jetbike and able to put him in a Reaver unit. I don't know why GW in their infinite wisdom decided that Archon's shouldn't have access to Jetbikes.

archie-d
26-03-2014, 09:11
This definitely will NOT happen. I don't think you have anything to worry about :)

For me, let me put my archon on a Reaver Jetbike. I don't even care if it makes Reavers troops, I just want him to be on a jetbike and able to put him in a Reaver unit. I don't know why GW in their infinite wisdom decided that Archon's shouldn't have access to Jetbikes.

id like to be able to put an archon or succubus on a bike or a hellion skyboard.

My 3rd ed dark eldar army had a drachon on a board and it looked cool.

MajorWesJanson
26-03-2014, 11:11
What with the new trend of taking things out of a regular codex and putting them into 'supplemental codexes', I hope GW don't have the awful idea of splitting out Kabalites, Wyches & Covens into 3 books. That would ruin the army as all three parts work together to make the whole.

Why pull out any of those when they could do the logical thing- Codex: Harlequins.

Chem-Dog
26-03-2014, 13:15
That was pretty much my idea for them as well, just you took the time to type out the lovely description rather than just the base idea.

A good idea always gets my imagination fired up :)


I'd like to see Webway portals become a fortification (taken by DE and Eldar both) as say 1-3 at 50 points each, treat it as a board edge for deployment. Maybe make it a T8 2+ save 3 wound model for 50 points. Since fortifications deploy in your table half, you can put them midfield at the start, and start using them turn 2. If the enemy shoots at them to kill them, they aren't shooting at your units.

Although I don't really vibe with the idea of DE using fortifications (I see them as always being on the offensive), I can certainly appreciate using that slot to give the DE something fun to use. Using your outlined format I'd make them big enough to allow vehicles through and allow models to go into Ongoing Reserves by moving into them. Obviously they'd be completely compatible with the smaller version characters can carry.
Could also go for a flickerfield generator, some kind of fear transmitter that reduces Ld of nearby enemies or gives friendly units the fear rule could be fun and I could also see room for something that radiates pain, for PfP goodness.

Whilst on the subject of PfP, I'd like to see more levels to it, it's quite easy to max out Pain Tokens on a unit so there's plenty of room to expand it. Something like:-
1- FNP (5+)
2- Furious Charge.
3- Fearless.
4- FNP (4+).
5- Rampage.
6- Fear.
7- FNP (3+).
8- Hatred (Everything).
9- Eternal Warrior.
10- It Will Not Die.

Not sure how easy it would be to stack Pain Tokens up to 10, but it'd be fun trying.


Why pull out any of those when they could do the logical thing- Codex: Harlequins.

And Codex:Exodites :D

Rabbitden
28-03-2014, 12:41
I think the raider/ravager kit will be combined into a new dualbox leaving shelf space for some new kind of skimmer probably along the lines of the FW model with the huge gun. (There 'always' seems to be a kit which has transport capacity swapped out for a large gun).

I'd like to see a Haemie super-heavy walker/skimmer. Some sort of 'Abomination' or 'Abhorrent', not just a scaled up version of a Talos but something new. It could perhaps give out a 'Power from pain' bonus to D'Eldar within 12" and be a h2h fiend.

It would be nice to be able to field scourge/reaver/hellion warlords or give our Archons access to their bikes/boards.

Wyches should be able to use their 'dodge' save to avoid overwatch.

death2uall
28-03-2014, 13:56
Wyches dodging overwatch, please oh please oh please.

Same thing for Jetbikes as troops. Since Reavers are a part of the Wych cult, I don't see why we don't already have that option with Lelith Hesperax. But frankly, there ought to be a generic leader-type for each of the cults that allows taking its members as Troops, or at least turning them into scoring units.

I assume the Shredder will eventually be getting the Monofilament special rule. In fact, why hasn't it already? I'd like to see more blast weapons made available, and at least one pie plate from Heavy Support.

Speaking of Heavy Support, something in the way of force fields for vehicles would really be a welcome addition.

And as has already been said, something needs to be done to make both Mandrakes and Hellions worthwhile. I've been collecting Dark Eldar since they first came out (3rd Edition, I believe) and I've yet to buy a single model because I've never found a use for either unit.

TheBearminator
28-03-2014, 20:29
Force fields for vehicles? You've already got flicker fields and night shields. What are you after?

BigHammer
29-03-2014, 01:14
There are a lot of things I'd like to see come to the Dark Eldar in their next codex, but the one that is top of my list is their offensive assault capability.

At the moment, they have the ability to launch lightning fast assaults from further away than most other armies, and usually strike first too. The amount of damage they can do, however, needs to go way, way up, to compensate for their fragility, and for all the things 6th ed did to make assaulting more difficult.

First off, wyches are our premiere assault unit. Combat drugs are good, mostly, but they're unreliable, and any sort of decent armour save completely destroys the wyches' effectiveness. Eldar guardians got Bladestorm and Battle Focus, I'd like to see Wyches get rending close combat attacks to match. That one addition would easily put them back into the shock assault role they're meant to occupy. Their special weapons will work well with these upgrades too.

Bloodbrides and Succubi should recieve similar upgrades, with perhaps unique rules for each tier of experience; bloodbrides perhaps use the current sliscus rules for rolling combat drugs, while Succubi get to choose theirs, and also have access to unique skills, similar to exarch abilities.

Incubi are in a decent place, so they don't need too much.

Hellions, being jump-pack equipped wyches, essentially, need one of two upgrades; either give them the dodge rule wyches have in close combat, or make their weapons rending too. As they are, they are too fragile to survive to perform their role, or too weak to perform it if they do survive.

Mandrakes need a little love, but not as much as you might think; give them the daemon rule, assault grenade equivalents (or banshee mask equivalents) and shrouded instead of stealth, and two close combat weapons, and they're sorted. Pinning shooting attacks are not reliable enough to make charging into cover with them viable.

Harlequins need to be taken out of the Eldar codexes and given their own. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already, to be honest. Their units need a major overhaul to be more interesting and relevant.

Scourges should be jetpack infantry, and full dark lances should be either cheaper for infantry, or removed from warrior units altogether for a double blaster option.

Finally, grotesques need a damage boost too. An additional attack (or two weapons, for the same effect), fear, It Will Not Die and Rending, possibly as purchasable upgrades, should turn these monsters into, well, monsters.

Pretty much everything else is in a good place, IMO. Our vehicles are excellent, warriors are mostly good, reavers are fantastic, and archons still do some of the best killing this game can see.

MajorWesJanson
29-03-2014, 11:09
I think the raider/ravager kit will be combined into a new dualbox leaving shelf space for some new kind of skimmer probably along the lines of the FW model with the huge gun. (There 'always' seems to be a kit which has transport capacity swapped out for a large gun).

I'd like to see a Haemie super-heavy walker/skimmer. Some sort of 'Abomination' or 'Abhorrent', not just a scaled up version of a Talos but something new. It could perhaps give out a 'Power from pain' bonus to D'Eldar within 12" and be a h2h fiend.

It would be nice to be able to field scourge/reaver/hellion warlords or give our Archons access to their bikes/boards.

Wyches should be able to use their 'dodge' save to avoid overwatch.

Yes, bikes and board options for archons would be good.
Dodge vs overwatch is perfect.

Don't see the raider ravager being combined though. Different roles- one is a cheaper transport, one is a tank. You don't see the Predator/Vindicator/Whirlwind combined with the Rhino kit.

red_zebra_ve
29-03-2014, 14:20
Give my Archon back his bike.

Give the Mandrakes the old deployment rules.

TheBearminator
29-03-2014, 20:17
Don't see the raider ravager being combined though. Different roles- one is a cheaper transport, one is a tank. You don't see the Predator/Vindicator/Whirlwind combined with the Rhino kit.

Agree. I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with an extra sprue for the ravager though, so you could build either one of two tanks. Probably one following the R trend. Raider, Reaver, Ravager, Razorwing. Rapier? Ripper? Redeemer?

Vidzero
30-03-2014, 14:39
When I look at the Dark Eldar codex I see so much missed potential for great synergy. It would not take much to bring DE in line with the current armies, most of it could be done with creatively loosening some restrictions to the current army lists, a few point adjustments, and several minor unit option adjustments that make sense.

In the last edition our list was where it needed to be in terms of overall balance, it was considered a "fair" army list. The current edition of rules has thrown that balance out off kilter and needs to be addressed. Also, there are elements from the 3rd edition codex that made a great amount of sense that were unnecessarily changed, or to be more precise, were changed to invalidate current army lists so players would be encouraged to buy new miniatures.


Here are some small changes that can make a big difference:


- In the Court of the Archon entry; replace all the "1-x" options to "0-x" options. This will have the immediate effect of giving the player many options at little to no change to the balance of the codex.

- Change the ability of Lhameans to give poison (+4) to the squad she is attached to, and change to cost of her to 25pts. This gives the model a useful ability and also makes the court stand out as an assault unit, giving them more character and purpose while also making more sense fluff-wise.

- Do away with the random nature of combat drugs and make each drug a separate upgrade that the squad may purchase to varying point costs. This strikes a fine balance from the overpowered "Combat Drug Dispenser" of the 3rd edition era, and the all too random and unreliable nature of combat drugs as they are. This also has the benefit of adding much synergy to the army list.

- Change the front armor of the Raider from 10 to 11. With how hull points work now, having our transports downed by bolter fire from the front is way too reliable. This allows our army some much needed reach and durability and lets be honest, the Raider and Ravager both look the same from the front, so why does one get av10 and the other av11?

- Allow characters to take more mobile options as per 3rd edition, this means giving Archons and Haemonculus's access to Jetbikes and Skyboards. This was really a great feature of the 3rd edition codex and I don't see the reason to quash this great mobility option to the DE when our Craftworld cousins already have it.

- Allow assaults when entering from reserve when using a Webway Portal. The added work and points cost really does justify the benefit received when used in this way. The tactic was never broken in any previous edition and will be fine in this one as well, especially giving the nature of how fragile our assault units are.

- Adjust the cost of Dark Lances in warrior squads from 25pts to 15pts. This will allow Warriors to economically work in large groups to take objectives and give supporting fire while not being as powerful as 3rd edition with the 10 man, 2 lance "sniper squads" for 100pts that were prevalent at that time.

- Change the wounds characteristic on the Talos and Chronos from 3 to 4, and give them the altered physique special ability to start them off with a pain token so as to be in line with the rest of the Coven units. These guys are bigger and beefier than Grotesques, let show it with the stats please. Also, yes it is a fire magnet but is it a crime to allow it to survive to turn 2?

- Give the Jink rule to Hellion Skyboards. They were the first unit in the game to have that rule, how does it make sense that it was taken away? They need to be slightly more durable for the points cost.

- Bring back the DE "Armory" from 3rd edition and allow characters a certain point allotment to choose whatever they want. DE are known for being individualistic and this would be a great way to give players a ton of options. Mark the Haemy options as "Haemy Only" to preserve the flavor they have or give them a separate armory.

- Give Incubi an option to take Plasma Grenades. Seriously, why not?

- Rework Flicker fields to improve Jink saves by 1. This would give our vehicles a fighting chance that is also inline with the fluff

- Give Grotesques the rending special rule. These guys hit hard but they need a little boost to really make them the unit they were meant to be.

- Increase the cost of the Splinter Cannon upgrade on the Venom from 10pts to 20pts. This option is a little too powerful at the current points cost at the moment.

- Allow for a vehicle upgrade that bestows Skyfire on Raiders/Ravagers for 10/15pts. Obligatory, we need a way to deal with flyers. This is an option that lets us do that while being too restrictive to spam, allowing you to choose some vehicles as the dedicated Flyer hunters.

- Give Mandrakes rending and start them with a pain token. This gives them the extra kick they need to make them effective in their role. Also allow The Decapitator to assault the turn he comes on the board, really this is one of the biggest no brainers and fixes him immediately.

- Give Vect Eternal Warrior. C'mon, hes the supreme overlord, he has survived thousands of assassination attempts, you don't stick around as long as he has without being able to take a few hits, also...ap2, kthnxbye.



Just a reminder that the original codex had a disclaimer that read that the list contained in that book was written as an attacking force, meant to get in, get slaves and leave before the foe could bring guns to bear. Consequently, they had the rule that in a mission where there was an attack and a defender, DE were always the attackers (attackers get first turn in 3rd edition usually)

That ability was taken away in the new book but we still had T3, SV5+, AV10 models all around, go figure.

TheBearminator
31-03-2014, 09:00
Well. The Rhino and the predate also have the same front. One is armour 11, the other one is 13. But sure, it would be nice with some more durability. But I don't think that'll happen.

One thing that strikes me is the limited range of vehicles and weapon options for DE vehicles. Venoms can only take splinter weapons. Raiders can switch their lances for dissies. Those are our transports and they're booth really good. But besides them we only have one vehicle, other than the flyers. The ravager is great value for points, but appears a bit limited with only two weapon configurations. And most of all, only one build. Compared to bright eldar we seem somewhat short on vehicles. Not terribly so, but a little. Then I haven't taken into account the missing void raven.

Ruination Drinker
31-03-2014, 23:02
Things I want from DE's:

> More beasts for the beastmasters. They're just such a cool idea!
> Charge from Webways.
> Nightshields that grant Raiders/Ravagers AV12 until they fail a pen roll.
> A man packed cloaking device that grants a 5+ cover save similar to the KFF
> A named Haemo with a Hex Rifle, i.e. Illic.

Kung Fu Hamster
02-04-2014, 05:43
Something else I'd like to see is a reduction (if not outright removal) of AP - attacks. Even giving them a high AP is better than no AP at all.


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TheBearminator
25-05-2014, 09:44
I want a race specific special rule like CE battle focus. Something to make DE about as swift and "special" as CE. Not exactly the same though.

Vipoid
25-05-2014, 11:33
Well, for a start, I think a lot of units are due a price-drop.

Same goes for weapons - Blasters need to come down to 10pts, Dark Lances should probably be 15 (especially since firing them accurately also kills the squad's mobility). Shredders should give you 5pts extra for taking them. ;)

A lot of equipment in general needs looking at - so much of it is worthless or just badly-overpriced:

Venom Blades - Good, basic weapon. No complaints, however, it always feels wrong when something like this is our go-to weapon - even for HQs - because our other weapons are so terrible and/or overpriced.

Power Weapons - I might consider a Power Axe on a Haemonculus (if I had spare points), or on one of our Sergeants, but that's about it.

Huskblade - Seems far too expensive for S3 models. Still, it's currently our only AP2 weapon that strikes at initiative and at least has a solid effect. Also, why does a Haemonculus pay as much for this as an Archon? Yeah, fear those WS4 I4 attacks. :roll:

Agoniser - Not a poison weapon, and now only AP3. Sigh. Our glass-cannon seems to be lacking ammunition.

Electrocorrosive Whip - Does anyone ever use this? I feel you could knock off 75% of its price and it would still never see play.

Flesh Gauntlet - Is there some sort of design code whereby crap weapons have to cost 20pts? I can't think of many situations where this would be better than Venom Blades (and it costs 4 times as much), and even fewer where poison-shooting wouldn't work even better. Still, at least it's available on the combat beast that is the Haemonculus...

Mindphase Gauntlet - An initiative-based weapon that's exclusive to I4 models (And the Haem. Ancient). Also very specific in its targets, and doesn't actually improve your combat abilities one iota. At least it's cheap, I guess.

Djin Blade (feel free to add 'Noble' or 'Resplendent') - Combine with soul-trap and you can create possibly the only HQ in the game capable of instant-deathing himself. I'm not sure what particular issue that ability solves, but it's bound to solve something. (Also, a cookie for anyone who gets the reference at the beginning. ;) )

Animus Vitae - Did this really need to be a special weapon, rather than just working with whatever weapon the model happens to be wielding? In my mind this weapon is 'special' in the same way that the kid eating paste is 'special'.

Personally, I'd like to see more 'solid' weapons (like the agonizer pre-6th) - rather than ones that might do something useful if it's exactly 6pm, on a Tuesday and your opponent is feeling generous.

Also, I'd like to just have more special weapon options. Our warriors currently get to choose between:
A Blaster
A Heavy Blaster
More poison (yeah, thanks, we were running a bit low on the stuff...)
And something apparently called a 'Shredder', which utterly fails to live up to that name.

Some more intermediate weapons (as opposed to 2 dedicated anti-infantry and 2 dedicated anti-vehicle) would be nice. As would an actual template weapon. The really annoying thing is that other weapons exist - we have Haywire Blasters, we have Heat Lances, we have Disintegrations, we have Shardcarbines, yet none of these are available to our troops. Why not?

Also, given the rules for snap-shotting, it would be nice if we had anti-tank weapons that were either twin-linked or that had multiple-shots.

Anyway, moving on, it would be nice if the Agoniser was allowed its AP2 back. It's more than a little irritating that an I8 Succubus is only allowed AP2 if she's willing to sacrifice 7 points of initiative!

I'm also with the others who'd like options for our HQs to take Skyboards and Jetbikes.

I'd also like to see Shadowfield changed, so that a failed save disables it for that phase - not for the rest of the game.

Also, whilst I like the idea of poison weapons, more recently I've found them as much of a hindrance as a bonus (can't hurt vehicles, worse against T3). At the very least, it would be nice to see either some different values for poison (not just a blanket 4+), or different weapons having different strength values (so, they're all 4+ still, but some can reroll against certain toughness scores).

I might post some more ideas later (also, apologies if this post was a bit jumbled).


- Rework Flicker fields to improve Jink saves by 1. This would give our vehicles a fighting chance that is also inline with the fluff

Whilst I liked all your other suggestions, I actually hope this doesn't come about. The best things about flickerfields at the moment is that a) all the ignores-cover weapons don't stop them, and b) you can use them without being forced to snapshot next turn.

SpanielBear
25-05-2014, 12:13
Dark Eldar have no psykers.


Let *THAT* sink in!

Vipoid
25-05-2014, 12:14
Maybe we'll get some anti-psyker stuff that isn't garbage.

BigHammer
25-05-2014, 13:36
Dark Eldar are still battle brothers with Eldar, who have possibly the best psykers in the game (Farseers). Now that the Farseers can ride in the DE transports, there's no reason not to take them if you want psykers.

Also, with Eldar allies, the crucible of malediction is now the deadliest (if only one-shot) anti-psyker weapon in the game.

Valedor formation for -3 LD. Torment grenade launchers for -1 Ld. Terrify for -1 Ld. Horrify for -3 Ld. Mindshock Pods for forcing Ld test rerolls.

With that^ combination, any psyker in the game has to roll double 1's on a Ld test twice in a row in order to not be simply removed from play by the crucible. Even without the Eldar allies, you can still force at best a Ld 6 test or be removed using the formation and torment grenades. Against low Ld psykers (Warlocks, Daemons) it's utterly brutal. Remember that Ld 6 is also the magic number where tests become far more likely to fail than to succeed, so even Ld 10 psykers are subject to being instagibbed.

TheBearminator
25-05-2014, 13:59
Dark Eldar have no psykers.


Let *THAT* sink in!

Tell that to GW. I hope they'll keep the Harry Potter nonsense out of my next DE codex. But I'm a bit worried since they've added a whole new hocus-pocus phase to the game and they wanna sell stuff.

Knifeparty
25-05-2014, 14:10
A lot of equipment in general needs looking at - so much of it is worthless or just badly-overpriced:

Venom Blades - Good, basic weapon. No complaints, however, it always feels wrong when something like this is our go-to weapon - even for HQs - because our other weapons are so terrible and/or overpriced.

Power Weapons - I might consider a Power Axe on a Haemonculus (if I had spare points), or on one of our Sergeants, but that's about it.

Huskblade - Seems far too expensive for S3 models. Still, it's currently our only AP2 weapon that strikes at initiative and at least has a solid effect. Also, why does a Haemonculus pay as much for this as an Archon? Yeah, fear those WS4 I4 attacks. :roll:

Agoniser - Not a poison weapon, and now only AP3. Sigh. Our glass-cannon seems to be lacking ammunition.

Electrocorrosive Whip - Does anyone ever use this? I feel you could knock off 75% of its price and it would still never see play.

Flesh Gauntlet - Is there some sort of design code whereby crap weapons have to cost 20pts? I can't think of many situations where this would be better than Venom Blades (and it costs 4 times as much), and even fewer where poison-shooting wouldn't work even better. Still, at least it's available on the combat beast that is the Haemonculus...

Mindphase Gauntlet - An initiative-based weapon that's exclusive to I4 models (And the Haem. Ancient). Also very specific in its targets, and doesn't actually improve your combat abilities one iota. At least it's cheap, I guess.

Djin Blade (feel free to add 'Noble' or 'Resplendent') - Combine with soul-trap and you can create possibly the only HQ in the game capable of instant-deathing himself. I'm not sure what particular issue that ability solves, but it's bound to solve something. (Also, a cookie for anyone who gets the reference at the beginning. )

Animus Vitae - Did this really need to be a special weapon, rather than just working with whatever weapon the model happens to be wielding? In my mind this weapon is 'special' in the same way that the kid eating paste is 'special'.

Personally, I'd like to see more 'solid' weapons (like the agonizer pre-6th) - rather than ones that might do something useful if it's exactly 6pm, on a Tuesday and your opponent is feeling generous.


Yea seriously. I know the last 2 editions haven't been kind to us, but I thought most of these kinda sucked even in 5th edition. Probably because Phill Kelly has no idea how to write rules.

We have some of the most useless items that will never see the light of day (or dark of night).

Venom Blades are great, I honestly don't have a problem with the Huskblade other than it's cost. They could drop it down to maybe 20-25 pts.

Agoniser should be poisoned, especially since it's only AP3 now. (hey look that might be a reason to buy a Lhamaean, who would have guessed?)

Honestly I don't think that the Shadow Field should a be a one time thing. Just have a permanent 2++ because chances are, when you roll that 1 you are dead anyway because of how much strength 6+ can be spammed in the game now.

Crucible should be changed for Psyker protection I think. Maybe it works a bit like shadow in the warp or maybe it gives adamantium will against psykic powers (except against slaanesh).

Haemonculi should just come with animus vitae.

I will stress my point again, can we please get Incubi Lords. I want an Incubi Lord with super awesome Incubi war gear, or at least let my Archon get access to an Incubi War Suit and Demi-Klaives.

ALL THE INCUBI STUFFS!

TheBearminator
25-05-2014, 14:16
Demi-klaives, yes please!

Dr.Clock
25-05-2014, 15:23
Tormentor helms that do something.

It's been said, but: more access to haywire/heatlances in kabal units, and allow double of anything in 5-man units (heavies or specials).

Trueborn: as above but up to 5 of anything, plus 3+ poison as part of basic cost.

Wyches drop 2 points (compare with Daemonettes, for instance) or get invulnerable save.

Webway assault directly ain't gonna happen, BUT: give any unit emerging from one Shrouded for a turn and it might see use (although ignores cover still super-annoying gimps this...).

RELICS... just like everyone else gets - proper Relics.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Kung Fu Hamster
25-05-2014, 15:23
I wouldn't mind getting rid of most of the AP- weapons and attacks in our codex.

Vipoid
25-05-2014, 15:32
Yea seriously. I know the last 2 editions haven't been kind to us, but I thought most of these kinda sucked even in 5th edition. Probably because Phill Kelly has no idea how to write rules.

That's certainly true. It's a shame, because a lot of these things have good fluff - it's just that their rules completely suck.


Venom Blades are great, I honestly don't have a problem with the Huskblade other than it's cost. They could drop it down to maybe 20-25 pts.

Agreed on both counts.


Agoniser should be poisoned, especially since it's only AP3 now. (hey look that might be a reason to buy a Lhamaean, who would have guessed?)

That might be nice, but I think it would need a point drop either way.


Honestly I don't think that the Shadow Field should a be a one time thing. Just have a permanent 2++ because chances are, when you roll that 1 you are dead anyway because of how much strength 6+ can be spammed in the game now.

You might well be right.

Either way, I think the downside needs to be less severe. I think Clone Field needs looking at too - since currently it's just to much of a liability to not have a Shadowfield.


Haemonculi should just come with animus vitae.

Probably a Stinger Pistol too. It barely makes a difference, but it would be quite nice from a fluff aspect.


I will stress my point again, can we please get Incubi Lords. I want an Incubi Lord with super awesome Incubi war gear, or at least let my Archon get access to an Incubi War Suit and Demi-Klaives.

I hope the person writing the new DE codex thinks the same way. :D

infamousme
25-05-2014, 18:18
I've never understood why my archon can't have both kinds of fields (shadow and clone) if i am willing to pay the points for them.

I want a voidraven kit, no more finecast (specifically a plastic harlequin kit) and something to make our assault phase better. I don't have any suggestions on how to do so, but I'm not a game designer. I'm sure a game designer out there could do something to make DE assault a bit stronger wothout having to mess with the core rules of the game.

Honestly though, i don't want to many changes. I love the dark eldar as they are for the most part.

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Vipoid
25-05-2014, 18:49
I've never understood why my archon can't have both kinds of fields (shadow and clone) if i am willing to pay the points for them.

I assume it was considered too powerful.

Which is pretty amusing given what HQs nowadays can do...


and something to make our assault phase better. I don't have any suggestions on how to do so, but I'm not a game designer. I'm sure a game designer out there could do something to make DE assault a bit stronger wothout having to mess with the core rules of the game.

The trouble is, Assault is a pain for every army. With the increased potency of shooting weapons - and, in particular, the availability of powerful, ignores-cover weapons - Assault just doesn't have much of a niche at the moment.

We're arguably worse off than most because, whilst we have good transports, our assault units are expensive, fragile and (on the whole) just not very good at what they're supposed to do.

Anyway, some thoughts/possibilities:

- Maybe give Wyches and co. a 5++ dodge save when not in combat? That might help their fragility a little; although, I think the real problem is that they're just not good in combat. S3 attacks with no special rules are not the slightest bit threatening. Nor is adding more S3 attacks for their supposedly-elite counterparts. But, I'm not really sure how to remedy this. Maybe rending or pseudo-rending? Perhaps combat drugs with more useful results (or that allow you to pick the result)?

- I've no idea how to fix Wracks. I used them many times, in a desperate attempt to make them work. However, regardless of how pitiful or depleted their enemy was, I don't think they ever did anything in combat. The best use I've seen is 3 Wracks, which unlock a Venom and can sit on an objective. It works, but not really what you want to see from a combat unit. :p

- Hellions feel too expensive for what they bring, and feel lacking in both survivability and combat power. They die in droves to anything that looks at them funny, and rarely do much when they reach combat (much like the wyches, they suffer from having lots of attacks but no AP, rending or other special rules to back them up).

- Incubi are good in combat, but suffer from being incredibly expensive for models with lacklustre survivability. Also, they need an accompanying HQ to bring grenades for them. Also also, I think you can make their sergeant something like 80pts if you take all his gear. I've spent less than that on my HQ...


Honestly though, i don't want to many changes.

I do. ;)

Metal Handkerchief
26-05-2014, 00:26
Scourges that can take all AT or all AP weapons in one unit, or get split fire, or combat squads. I am ALLERGIC to this half-assery of GW when it comes to non-Imperial units where you have to spend 120 points on absolute waste to get AT weapons in a unit that is supposed to be AT. It pisses me off more than any other thing in the entire game.

TheBearminator
26-05-2014, 01:36
Easy, easy. ;)

Knifeparty
26-05-2014, 01:40
Scourges that can take all AT or all AP weapons in one unit, or get split fire, or combat squads. I am ALLERGIC to this half-assery of GW when it comes to non-Imperial units where you have to spend 120 points on absolute waste to get AT weapons in a unit that is supposed to be AT. It pisses me off more than any other thing in the entire game

Yea, +1 to this. Mostly I find that it's Phill Kelly that goes half assed on everything, but I hate this about scourges as well.

The thing about Dark Eldar is they don't have armour. They aren't really supposed to, they need to fast, stealthy and hit like a Mac Truck on steroids.

DE need to rely on cover saves basically for everything. Honestly, the whole army should have stealth and shrouding. We should also be able to play night fight pretty much all the time. I heard with 7th ed. you can start the game with night fight no matter what? I'm not sure how accurate that is as I don't have the book, and I don't think I'll be getting it. But this sounds like a bonus for us at least.

DoctorTom
26-05-2014, 03:24
I'd give the wyches back the dodge save they used to have. Let the save count against overwatch. (Or just give them a 5++ save all the time to reflect their dodging?)

Agonisers either poisoned or AP2.

I suspect DE won't get Battle Focus - if they were going to let all Eldar have it, they'd have given it to the Harlequins in the Eldar Codex. It would be nice if all Eldar variants got it, though.

An artifact that can keep night fighting in play.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Venoms offered as its own unit as well as being a dedicated transport (the way it was in the Harlequin Codex for 3rd)

Vipoid
26-05-2014, 07:57
An artifact that can keep night fighting in play.

Considering the massive nerf to Night Fighting this edition, I doubt keeping it in play would be worth the effort.

TheBearminator
26-05-2014, 08:12
Considering the massive nerf to Night Fighting this edition, I doubt keeping it in play would be worth the effort.

Hadn't noticed that until now. All units gain stealth? What kind of a change is that? Why? Why?!

Vipoid
26-05-2014, 14:08
Hadn't noticed that until now. All units gain stealth? What kind of a change is that? Why? Why?!

My guess is that this was an attempt to rectify the complete mess they've made of cover saves.

With 6th edition Night Fight, if nids have a Venomthrope then they actually became easier to hit if they were further away (since the Shrouded from Night Fight didn't stack with their Shrouded, but the Stealth at closer range did).

It's a lazy decision, and one which makes Night Fight an utterly pointless inclusion in the new edition.

TheBearminator
26-05-2014, 14:27
Hate the new rule. Yeah, the old one was badly written but I loved popping enemies in the dark with my predatory DE. How are they gonna compensate us for that. :mad:

DoctorTom
26-05-2014, 17:27
Hate the new rule. Yeah, the old one was badly written but I loved popping enemies in the dark with my predatory DE. How are they gonna compensate us for that. :mad:

Their 'compensation' was to allow flamers to affect units in open topped vehicles. So, no hiding in the dark and no hiding in the transports.

TheBearminator
26-05-2014, 17:36
Their 'compensation' was to allow flamers to affect units in open topped vehicles. So, no hiding in the dark and no hiding in the transports.

Wasn't that just a rumour?

Knifeparty
26-05-2014, 20:05
Hadn't noticed that until now. All units gain stealth? What kind of a change is that? Why? Why?!

I also didn't know that night fight had changed. Lame...

Just another reason to change Phantasm Grenade Launchers and Night Shields to add Shrouding to the Unit or Vehicle.

Change Flicker Fields to work like Necron Quantum Shielding, or you can only snap fire against Vehicles with Flicker Field (not sure if this would be too powerful?).

Bonzai
26-05-2014, 21:53
Some of these have been mentioned before , but here are my hopes for Eldar:

1. Obligatory across the board point adjustments.

2. HQs get access to sky boards and bikes like they used to.

3. Court of the archon can pick and choose what is in it, like a Necron Court.

4. Increased access to haywire grenades to squad leaders.

5. Sky boards get jink, hellions get skillful rider.

6. Mandrakes get daemon, scout, and a new rule; "Born of Shadows: models shooting at this unit may only snap fire. Templates may fire normally.

7. Razor wing jet fighter gets moved to fast attack, so it no longer competes with ravagers.

8. A new combi kit. One is some sort of ground to air platform.

9. A giant arena beast. Epic had one whose name escapes me. Basically an affordable gargantuan creature that will be their large kit, and the their knight equivalent.

10. Combined Demi klaives are ap2.

11. Forge world makes a tormentor Titan!

TheBearminator
26-05-2014, 22:31
Klaives are ap2 already. :)

Marshal
27-05-2014, 17:52
Wasn't that just a rumour?

Pg 173: Template Weapons: No Escape

If a Template weapon hist a building's Fire Point or an Open-topped vehicle and there is a unit embarked inside that building or vehicle, then in addition to any other effects that unit suffers.....



Back to the topic at hand, Webways for everyone! They gave me pretty much anything I really wanted right there. Now my Eldar battle bros can use my portals :) though why is it a wraithknight can jump out of one but a venom can't?

Vipoid
27-05-2014, 18:21
There was a recent thread on The Dark City, discussing the Power from Pain mechanic, and whether it should change in the next book. I found this suggestion rather interesting:


I would make pain tokens more versatile and easier to get, but disposable. For example, instead of getting a pain token only when you destroy a unit, you get one every time your unit causes one or more unsaved wounds or hull points on a vehicle. Then, at any time, you may spend a pain token to receive a variety of effects, including FNP, Furious Charge, and Fearless, but also Hatred, Stealth, Shrouded, Twin-Linked, etc. Maybe if you spend two pain tokens you could improve your FNP to (4+), or even spend three to improve it to FNP (3+).

Also, maybe there could be equipment that is fueled by pain tokens, so that you could spend a pain token to resurrect a dead character, or re-roll a failed save, or make an attack Instant Death. I dunno, that sort of thing?

daveNYC
27-05-2014, 18:33
DE don't and shouldn't have psykers.
Instead, DE should be able to stockpile PfP tokens as dice rolls that they can use ase either Deny the Witch rolls (or whatever it's currently called) or as one-off buffs to hit/wound/ID/EW/whatever.
Still leaves the issue of whether you pool all the PfP for the entire army and dole it out as you want, or if you keep track of PfP generated by each unit and have every unit gaining and burning just that unit's PfP throughout the game.

Drasanil
27-05-2014, 19:15
I'd be tempted to say just make Haemies mastery2/3(for masters) psykers with access to biomancy and only biomancy. Then make them immune to perils and anti-psyker gear/rules to represent the fact they're not actual psykers but using weird hyper advanced technology.

--- --- ---

For pain tokens I'm kind of hoping they go, simply to cut down on the book-keeping, and I'm certainly hoping they don't get expanded. We don't need an ancillary system tacked on to the game for something that can just quickly and cleanly be represented by a few USRs in the right places. Something like all DE get FnP, multiwound models get IWND on top, and coven units get fearless and furious on top of it all, balance the costs accordingly.

TheBearminator
27-05-2014, 19:15
Pg 173: Template Weapons: No Escape


Butt crack! I really didn't need that rule! I'm the only player around with open topped transports.

Vipoid
27-05-2014, 19:35
I'd be tempted to say just make Haemies mastery2/3(for masters) psykers with access to biomancy and only biomancy. Then make them immune to perils and anti-psyker gear/rules to represent the fact they're not actual psykers but using weird hyper advanced technology.

Whilst I wouldn't want them to be psykers (to me it seems very unfluffy, and unnecessary shoe-horning of psykers into our book), it would be nice if they had some more interesting rules to represent their flesh-manipulation stuff (aside from starting with a pain token, I mean).

As it stands, all they seem to get is access to a warehouse full of expensive crap.


For pain tokens I'm kind of hoping they go, simply to cut down on the book-keeping, and I'm certainly hoping they don't get expanded. We don't need an ancillary system tacked on to the game for something that can just quickly and cleanly be represented by a few USRs in the right places. Something like all DE get FnP, multiwound models get IWND on top, and coven units get fearless and furious on top of it all, balance the costs accordingly.

I was about to disagree with you... then I considered how many times I'd actually benefited from PfP. I think I can recall maybe one game where I've actually benefited from collecting a pain token (as opposed to just starting with them via Hameonculi/Wracks). Every other time, either they already had a token (and a second is useless for my army), or a vehicle ended up with the kill, or the squad that got the kill was down to just a few guys.

One big problem I find is the fact that you ideally want to finish off units with your infantry - but the actual shooting rules encourage you to do otherwise. e.g. Let's say my army contains one or more Raiders full of warriors, and also some venoms. Your warrior units are more effective at close-range, thereby limiting their potential targets - whilst venoms have the movement and range to sight several possible targets (thus encouraging you to fire them last). Similarly, the warriors have more firepower, so you want to make sure you use them to maximum effect on a healthy squad - rather than wasting all that firepower killing a few men. Conversely, with their fewer shots, venoms are a logical choice for finishing off a wounded squad.

That's part of the reason why I liked the suggested change to PfP - since it would relate to damage done (which also seems more logical), rather than just who killed the last man.

I definitely get what you mean though.

Although, if we're going to talk about unnecessary rules, can I nominate the fact that "And They Shall Know No Fear" is somehow different to "Fearless". :shifty:

Drasanil
27-05-2014, 19:50
Whilst I wouldn't want them to be psykers (to me it seems very unfluffy, and unnecessary shoe-horning of psykers into our book), it would be nice if they had some more interesting rules to represent their flesh-manipulation stuff (aside from starting with a pain token, I mean).

As it stands, all they seem to get is access to a warehouse full of expensive crap.

Yup, honestly it's not my favoured solution, but it seems likely the least intrusive way to go about giving haemies some flesh crafting with 7th's introduction of the psychic phase. It's not perfect, but I prefer avoiding more clutter when something existing does just about the same even if it's not ideal.


I was about to disagree with you... then I considered how many times I'd actually benefited from PfP. I think I can recall maybe one game where I've actually benefited from collecting a pain token (as opposed to just starting with them via Hameonculi/Wracks). Every other time, either they already had a token (and a second is useless for my army), or a vehicle ended up with the kill, or the squad that got the kill was down to just a few guys.

One big problem I find is the fact that you ideally want to finish off units with your infantry - but the actual shooting rules encourage you to do otherwise. e.g. Let's say my army contains one or more Raiders full of warriors, and also some venoms. Your warrior units are more effective at close-range, thereby limiting their potential targets - whilst venoms have the movement and range to sight several possible targets (thus encouraging you to fire them last). Similarly, the warriors have more firepower, so you want to make sure you use them to maximum effect on a healthy squad - rather than wasting all that firepower killing a few men. Conversely, with their fewer shots, venoms are a logical choice for finishing off a wounded squad.

That's part of the reason why I liked the suggested change to PfP - since it would relate to damage done (which also seems more logical), rather than just who killed the last man.

I definitely get what you mean though.

That's my main concern about PfP getting expanded, is that it'll essentially just become a slightly different version of the psychic phase added on to the army for it's own sake.


Although, if we're going to talk about unnecessary rules, can I nominate the fact that "And They Shall Know No Fear" is somehow different to "Fearless". :shifty:

Well, you see that's different... Marines are special snowflakes and need their special snowflake rules and... well no, I completely agree with you. ATSKNF is not needed, but I don't think marines should get fearless either that would undermine the LD stat even more than it already does, if they must have a morale rule give them stubborn and call it a day.

Marshal
27-05-2014, 22:56
Although, if we're going to talk about unnecessary rules, can I nominate the fact that "And They Shall Know No Fear" is somehow different to "Fearless". :shifty:

The 2 rules are different tough. ATSKNF - they still take morale checks, and can essentially run away under certain circumstances, pushing them off objectives, pinning them and so on, where fearless you can't.

Vipoid
28-05-2014, 09:37
The 2 rules are different tough. ATSKNF - they still take morale checks, and can essentially run away under certain circumstances, pushing them off objectives, pinning them and so on, where fearless you can't.

I know they're different, but why?

Why is 'not knowing fear' somehow different to being 'fearless'?

Metal Handkerchief
28-05-2014, 18:04
I almost forgot: we badly need the same allowance for independent characters in our dedicated transports as other armies have received. Should be 6 and 12 capacity for the Venom and Raider, respectively.

BigHammer
28-05-2014, 19:11
I almost forgot: we badly need the same allowance for independent characters in our dedicated transports as other armies have received. Should be 6 and 12 capacity for the Venom and Raider, respectively.

I think this gets my vote for "thing I would like to see most" in the next codex.

Vipoid
28-05-2014, 19:17
I almost forgot: we badly need the same allowance for independent characters in our dedicated transports as other armies have received. Should be 6 and 12 capacity for the Venom and Raider, respectively.

I'd settle for 11 in a Raider.

But, yeah, it's really annoying that we have to take 9-man squads in our transports if we want to attach a character to them.

TheBearminator
28-05-2014, 19:38
I know they're different, but why?

Why is 'not knowing fear' somehow different to being 'fearless'?

ATSKNF is just a fluffy name for a pants-on-head stupid rule. They could as well have named it And They Shall Be So Awesome That Rules Don't Apply To Them. But it was to cumbersome.

Vipoid
28-05-2014, 20:14
ATSKNF is just a fluffy name for a pants-on-head stupid rule. They could as well have named it And They Shall Be So Awesome That Rules Don't Apply To Them. But it was to cumbersome.

I'm tempted to sig this. :D

TheBearminator
28-05-2014, 22:17
I'm tempted to sig this. :D

Pardon my poor Weblish. Sig? :)

Vipoid
28-05-2014, 22:22
Hmm, I wonder if we might get more options with regard to our vehicle weapons (venoms in particular are basically 'splinter' and 'more splinter'. :p


Pardon my poor Weblish. Sig? :)

Sorry - it means put it in my signature.

TheBearminator
28-05-2014, 22:37
Hmm, I wonder if we might get more options with regard to our vehicle weapons (venoms in particular are basically 'splinter' and 'more splinter'. :p



Sorry - it means put it in my signature.

As in "sign"? :) Sure. My sarcasms don't seem to make either rich or famous anyway. Feel free to use them as your own, as long as you return them in the same condition.

I've been thinking about what you said about new weapon options for de vehicles. They are absurdly limited as of now. A DE "vyper" would also be cool. There's a lot of potential in the venom chassis. I don't wanna see more space boats, thank you.

MajorWesJanson
29-05-2014, 07:41
ATSKNF is just a fluffy name for a pants-on-head stupid rule. They could as well have named it And They Shall Be So Awesome That Rules Don't Apply To Them. But it was to cumbersome.

Locally we call it "And they shall Know no Rules"
At least they lost the free 3" consolidate, which does help a bit.

Looking at the kits, and rules for chariots, I wonder how hard it would be to make a chariot version of the venom- remove the upper splinter cannon, replace the passengers with an archon. Wouldn't need any new kits either.

Still want to see a large Dais of Destruction as a Land Raider sized raider, AV12 with 2-4 turrets and capacity for 20-25 models. Like a GW version of the tantalus.
Vect's captured Wraithguard variants would also be cook.
Wracks/Haemonculus would make a good 5 man box.
Grotesques as a large 3 man box.
Void Raven with maybe some alternate bomb options.

Saunders
29-05-2014, 15:13
Vect's captured Wraithguard variants would also be cool.

Castigators. Yes. Yes.

That might even open an avenue for an in-universe explanation as to why the Dark Eldar would have access to Revenant Titans.

Voss
29-05-2014, 15:19
As in "sign"? :)
Irrelevant trivia: Actually, as in .sig. Back in the early, early days of email (early 90s), the early email programs (like pine and elm) would allow you to add a custom file (a 'signature' file, using the .sig extension) to email- basically so you didn't have to type out your name, address, and any pithy (or pretentious) quotes each time you sent an email. The .sig has been dropped, but the terminology has been kept for the trailing quote blocks and mini-banners you still see on emails and forum posts.

TheBearminator
29-05-2014, 19:47
Irrelevant trivia: Actually, as in .sig. Back in the early, early days of email (early 90s), the early email programs (like pine and elm) would allow you to add a custom file (a 'signature' file, using the .sig extension) to email- basically so you didn't have to type out your name, address, and any pithy (or pretentious) quotes each time you sent an email. The .sig has been dropped, but the terminology has been kept for the trailing quote blocks and mini-banners you still see on emails and forum posts.

Thanks Voss! I love irrelevant trivia. :)

Haravikk
29-05-2014, 20:01
For Dark Eldar, I'd like to see combat drugs reworked; while randomising might be somewhat fluffy, the strength of each result varies too wildly from game to game, which makes it pretty annoying. I'd rather we had some mechanic, such as each unit with the rule having a say… the same three varieties of drug, which can be used at the start of any turn, but you have to roll a dice to see if it takes effect (i.e - has it spread fully through their system yet?); to counteract the possibility of failing you can try to activate more than one, but could end up with a few fatalities for your trouble; once a drug takes effect it lasts one turn then can't be used again.

They could definitely do with being balanced against the Eldar Run and Shoot mechanic; possibly with a more combat oriented skew such as regaining Run and then charge, so they'd lose a chance to shoot, but would have a better chance of getting into combat instead.


Otherwise I think Dark Eldar still play pretty well; slap on a Warlord Traits table, maybe mix in some psychic defence, tidy up the rules to match 7th edition universal rules etc., and I think they're good. Release a bunch of new plastic kits (bomber, grotesques and incubi would be nice) and you've got a release :)

TheBearminator
29-05-2014, 20:39
The only things I worry about is that

A) they'll focus to much on coven, that the players who field Wych cults and kabals won't get a single miniature except a plastic hq.

B) they'll come up with a bad excuse to squeeze in a psycher.

MajorWesJanson
29-05-2014, 20:55
The only things I worry about is that

A) they'll focus to much on coven, that the players who field Wych cults and kabals won't get a single miniature except a plastic hq.

B) they'll come up with a bad excuse to squeeze in a psycher.

Actually, A could potentially counteract B. Dark Eldar don't do psykers, but they could have some arcane wargear that boosts psychic defense. Or they could add another species to the court of the archon that boosts DTW.

For Coven, I'd like to see Grotesques get a 3-pack, and a 5 pack of wracks with parts to make a haemonculus/ancient since they share so much of the same wargear. All the haemi would really need would be that spinal backpack thing and some alternate heads.

Some other kits would be unlikely but nice options- a Lahamean poisoner/Bloodbride 5 pack would be nice, maybe with parts for a succubus. And maybe an Incubus/Trueborn set. Incubi are really just a set of blades, different helmet, and trophy racks away from normal warriors, so they would be an easy match with trueborn. Could even throw Drazhar in there too.

BigHammer
30-05-2014, 05:01
Re: Combat drugs. I actually don't mind their randomness at the moment. Everything is useful to some degree... except that number 1 result. Get rid of that for something even slightly useful (Fleet invalidates it for units on foot and not being able to charge after running post-5th makes the importance of a big run move minor at best anyway, also Reavers can't use it at all...) and I'd be happy.

I'd love to see gladiatorial units get one of two bonuses: pseudo-rending like bladestorm, but on close combat attacks instead of shooting, or being able to assault after running. Heck, if they got both all it would do is bring them in line with Eldar, who can run and shoot and got pseudo-rending on shooting attacks (bladestorm, monofilament). Of course, power from pain is probably still their equivalent of battle-focus, though, so just the pseudo-rending thing would immediately make the gladiatorial units competitive again.

Vipoid
30-05-2014, 10:37
Re: Combat drugs. I actually don't mind their randomness at the moment. Everything is useful to some degree... except that number 1 result. Get rid of that for something even slightly useful (Fleet invalidates it for units on foot and not being able to charge after running post-5th makes the importance of a big run move minor at best anyway, also Reavers can't use it at all...) and I'd be happy.

+1 WS is also pretty useless.

The other problem is that some of the results are invalidated by wargear. e.g. Anyone using an Agoniser won't benefit in the slightest from +1S.

BigHammer
30-05-2014, 10:55
+1 WS is also pretty useless.

The other problem is that some of the results are invalidated by wargear. e.g. Anyone using an Agoniser won't benefit in the slightest from +1S.

Really? Hitting things on 3's instead of 4's against most other units is useless? I hadn't realised ;)

Edit: It also makes Succubi WS9, meaning WS4 things hit her on 5's, a nice defensive boost.

Also, I don't use agonisers for pretty much that reason; that and they're overpriced guff. Venom blades or power spears are my weapons of choice for wychy characters.

Something I have realised since 7th dropped for Wych units; I run mine with phantasm launchers, and now I lost my stealth within 8"... but I gained the ability to blind my opponents before a charge! On the offchance that it goes off, hitting against and being hit by WS1 makes Wyches a much more viable close combat unit in that crucial first turn. Also, coming out of webway portals and blinding your enemy's shooting units means those wyches will be much more likely to survive til the next turn to be able to assault. It's a shame there aren't more I reducing things in the DE army...

TheBearminator
30-05-2014, 11:22
Blinding? Where's can I read about that? Grenade rules?

Edit:
Ah. Found it. But I still don't get it. Initiative test for the models hit. Does it mean you'll just blind a few orks in a mob of thirty?

Vipoid
30-05-2014, 12:54
Really? Hitting things on 3's instead of 4's against most other units is useless? I hadn't realised ;)

In my experience, hitting is rarely an issue - the problem comes when you're wounding on 5s and then only 1/3 of those are getting past their armour.

And, in that circumstance, the extra point of WS really doesn't do much.

Similarly, Archons hit most things on 3s with or without the extra WS.


Edit: It also makes Succubi WS9, meaning WS4 things hit her on 5's, a nice defensive boost.

I'd be more worried about losing a succubus to shooting, to be honest. Not that I'd ever use one.


Also, I don't use agonisers for pretty much that reason; that and they're overpriced guff. Venom blades or power spears are my weapons of choice for wychy characters.

I agree, though they were good in 5th.

Also, this is why I don't use a succubus - since if I'm bothering to use a combat character at all, I'd want one with AP2 (not just on the charge).


Something I have realised since 7th dropped for Wych units; I run mine with phantasm launchers, and now I lost my stealth within 8"... but I gained the ability to blind my opponents before a charge! On the offchance that it goes off, hitting against and being hit by WS1 makes Wyches a much more viable close combat unit in that crucial first turn. Also, coming out of webway portals and blinding your enemy's shooting units means those wyches will be much more likely to survive til the next turn to be able to assault. It's a shame there aren't more I reducing things in the DE army...

On that note, do you think it's a little strange that a blind unit is just as effective at overwatching as one with perfect vision? :p

MajorWesJanson
31-05-2014, 00:12
On that note, do you think it's a little strange that a blind unit is just as effective at overwatching as one with perfect vision? :p

Well, overwatch is a quick shot without time to aim, while blinded fire is just shooting at random.

Meanwhile Orks do both normally, which is why they are only BS2. They have had more experience at firing randomly.

TheBearminator
04-08-2014, 23:06
Don't you think we need some kind of multi-shot mid strength (6-7) ranged weapon to deal with transports and other light to medium armoured vehicles? Don't know how they would fix that though, since all our kits are pretty new. Both our troops and transports, our flyer and our only tank. New multi-shot rules for blasters or dark lances seem highly unlikely.

MajorWesJanson
05-08-2014, 03:47
Don't you think we need some kind of multi-shot mid strength (6-7) ranged weapon to deal with transports and other light to medium armoured vehicles? Don't know how they would fix that though, since all our kits are pretty new. Both our troops and transports, our flyer and our only tank. New multi-shot rules for blasters or dark lances seem highly unlikely.

They could bump disintegrators up a point in Str to 6, and drop them from 3 shots to 2, maybe. Or possibly wider access to Heat Lance/Haywire blasters, possibly on trueborn? would boost sales of the scourge kit to get those parts.

Charistoph
05-08-2014, 04:54
They really need a Chariot unit for the gladiator arena and one that Archons can hop on when the feeling hits them.

Vipoid
05-08-2014, 10:12
Don't you think we need some kind of multi-shot mid strength (6-7) ranged weapon to deal with transports and other light to medium armoured vehicles? Don't know how they would fix that though, since all our kits are pretty new. Both our troops and transports, our flyer and our only tank. New multi-shot rules for blasters or dark lances seem highly unlikely.

Well, they could sell a separate weapon sprue with new weapons.

But, yes, we do need a ranged weapon along those lines.


They could bump disintegrators up a point in Str to 6, and drop them from 3 shots to 2, maybe. Or possibly wider access to Heat Lance/Haywire blasters, possibly on trueborn? would boost sales of the scourge kit to get those parts.

Boosting Disintegrators to S6 Heavy 2 wouldn't do much. Their strength is still too low to achieve much. I think they'd either need to be S7 or else stay at S5 but gain some other rule that allows them to help vehicles.

Thing is, either one of these options will likely replace Dark Lances... but only because Dark Lances are so utterly worthless.

Really, I think Dark Lances (and Blasters) need to get drastically better. As it stands they're just terrible weapons - mainly because 'Lance' is an awful rule. I don't care about taking out AV14 - that's what meltas or haywire are for. What I care about is taking out larger numbers of AV10-12 vehicles. And, for this, Dark Lances are just outright worse than Lascannons... yet more expensive because we're not marines. I'm not sure what Lance should do, but it definitely needs a different effect - preferably one that's useful against all vehicles, rather than only affecting the least common AV values. I also find myself wondering if they should be AP1. This will probably depend on what else we get and what happens to the Lance rule, but currently it just takes far too many shots to cripple or destroy a vehicle.

With regard to special weapons, I really don't see why trueborn and warriors shouldn't all have access to Heat Lances and haywire blasters. Let's face it they're not exactly saturated with special weapons at the moment. We currently have:
- Dark Lance
- Short-Range Dark Lance
- Something marked "Shredder", which seems to be in the form of a middle finger. Oddly, no matter which way you point it, it finger always seems to be aimed at you.
- A weapon that adds a few more poison shots to our tally (well, we were running a bit short)

I think we could squeeze a couple more weapons into the pile, and would volunteer the Disintegrator as well.

infamousme
05-08-2014, 19:46
Well, no one seems to he overly attached to the shredder. Make it s6, ap-, assault 2, 18" rending. Obviously this would increase the cost from 5 points (or not, i always thought the shredder should be a free upgrade)

Also, for some reason i have always looked at blasters as an assault 2 weapon even though i know they aren't haha.

Edit: this would semi validate my shredderborn squad that i lovingly crafted... my suggestion for change has nothing to do with that though. Completely unbiased ;)

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2

Knifeparty
05-08-2014, 20:21
Incubi Chariot FTW!

BigHammer
05-08-2014, 20:26
Dark Lances are so utterly worthless.

You wot, mate?

High strength, low AP, decent range, cheap (except for kabalites), lance, good BS and mounted on fast moving, stable platforms... Considering how many of the things your average DE army can include (including blasters as well), they're a pretty darn great weapon all round. I don't think I've ever, ever seen a fellow Dark Eldar player say "Dark Lances are garbage". Like, ever. At all.

Vipoid
05-08-2014, 20:32
High strength, low AP

Woot, we can explode a vehicle on a mere 6. What great odds.


cheap (except for kabalites)

How much are you costing them at?


mounted on fast moving, stable platforms

Which are armoured with paper mache.


lance

One of the worst rules in the game. Yay...


I don't think I've ever, ever seen a fellow Dark Eldar player say "Dark Lances are garbage". Like, ever. At all.

I have. Many times.

It's usually once they start looking at the maths, and realising how utterly abysmal they are compared to imperial weapons.

attackdrone
06-08-2014, 14:54
It's usually once they start looking at the maths, and realising how utterly abysmal they are compared to imperial weapons.

Disclaimer: I use Duke Sliscus as my warlord.

I have had much luck busting vehicles with dark lances when I deep strike my raiders/ravagers and move them to engage the enemy rear armor. The key to being effective with dark lances is to leverage the other strength of the Dark Eldar: our mobility.

...

My wish list for Dark Eldar, in no particular order:

1- A unique Force Organization Chart. As the Ork 7th Edition Codex has one, I suspect that this is a foregone conclusion. I might not use it every game, but I truly enjoy having some choice!

2- Keep Duke Sliscus and Baron Sathonyx. Give them some models; I will buy them both! I do think that Baron Sathonyx should cost about 35-45 points more for what he brings, but don't remove him from the Codex!

3- A plastic Incubi kit. This one is simple. I am not a huge fan of finecast, but I love all of the Dark Eldar plastic models that have been released (even if I do have an annoying tendency to stab myself on the spiky bits. Blood for the Blood God!)

4- Some weapons that have skyfire. Scourges would be an excellent choice for these weapons (as they fly, according to lore).

5- Less Schizophrenic Scourges. Right now Scourges have the best anti-tank weapons in the codex (Haywire Blasters). However, to use them, 60% of the unit flaps their wings uselessly because their weapons cannot damage vehicles. Perhaps include an option to exchange their Shardcarbines for a Str 6, AP 3, Assault 1, Lance weapon for 5 points each. Yes that weapon would not be amazing, but it could at least glance any vehicle on a 6, making the remaining Scourges have some utility in an anti-vehicle role.

6- Shredders should be useful. A move to a Template could work. So could the addition of "Ignores Cover."

All things considered, our existing codex has held up quite well across three editions, and I hope that the next one does as well! I can't say anything on the Talos Pain Engine or Chronos Parasite Engine, as I have yet to use them, but I suspect they'll be overhauled in the next codex regardless.

attackdrone
06-08-2014, 14:56
It's usually once they start looking at the maths, and realising how utterly abysmal they are compared to imperial weapons.

Disclaimer: I use Duke Sliscus as my warlord.

I have had much luck busting vehicles with dark lances when I deep strike my raiders/ravagers and move them to engage the enemy rear armor. The key to being effective with dark lances is to leverage the other strength of the Dark Eldar: our mobility.

...

My wish list for Dark Eldar, in no particular order:

1- A unique Force Organization Chart. As the Ork 7th Edition Codex has one, I suspect that this is a foregone conclusion. I might not use it every game, but I truly enjoy having some choice!

2- Keep Duke Sliscus and Baron Sathonyx. Give them some models; I will buy them both! I do think that Baron Sathonyx should cost about 35-45 points more for what he brings, but don't remove him from the Codex!

3- A plastic Incubi kit. This one is simple. I am not a huge fan of finecast, but I love all of the Dark Eldar plastic models that have been released (even if I do have an annoying tendency to stab myself on the spiky bits. Blood for the Blood God!)

4- Some weapons that have skyfire. Scourges would be an excellent choice for these weapons (as they fly, according to lore).

5- Less Schizophrenic Scourges. Right now Scourges have the best anti-tank weapons in the codex (Haywire Blasters). However, to use them, 60% of the unit flaps their wings uselessly because their weapons cannot damage vehicles. Perhaps include an option to exchange their Shardcarbines for a Str 6, AP 3, Assault 1, Lance weapon for 5 points each. Yes that weapon would not be amazing, but it could at least glance any vehicle on a 6, making the remaining Scourges have some utility in an anti-vehicle role.

6- Shredders should be useful. A move to a Template could work. So could the addition of "Ignores Cover."

All things considered, our existing codex has held up quite well across three editions, and I hope that the next one does as well! I can't say anything on the Talos Pain Engine or Chronos Parasite Engine, as I have yet to use them, but I suspect they'll be overhauled in the next codex regardless.